/tech/ - Technology★

>>969576 (OP)

If you're so good why haven't you provided a replacement for half the cost? He needs that money to live and deserves it. He also needs a new computer to continue developing this great software!

I'm kidding, fuck these faggots. They're no better than the homeless and their paypigs enable them

>>969578

Also this is true. Even before the CoCks became the cancer that spread everywhere the groundwork was already in place. Any "software community" or "online community" always ends up with lazy/useless people in charge of it. They gain control through being willing to moderate the community, something the people doing the actual work don't want to deal with. Once they've gained control they start pushing people out that won't get along with their politics. This eventually spreads to the point that they push out the people that built up the community and were doing all the grunt work.

Once they've seized full control they slowly destroy everything that has been built up. They jump ship right before things get really bad leaving their lacky's in charge to take all of the blame. They move on to infect the next community.

I've seen way to many talented people run out of town over comments they made in private, on a random IRC channel, in an unrelated mailing list, you name it. They always get burned in the same way

>this is very inappropriate you represent our community how could you make such a statement!?

A lot of them are barefoot socialist NEET moochers who are being enabled to mooch at a new level by internet handout sites.

>>969576 (OP)

Well an entry level SF software developer makes 100 grand a year. Making less than half entry level is a REALLY shitty pay.

>>969586

If being a programmer was enough to pay 100k a year there would be nothing but programmers in this world. You need to actually do a good job at a decent pace to deserve that.

I make less than half of what they're asking for and I can live very comfortably in a 1st world country with plenty of money to spare.

>>969589

You must be European then. You faggots barely have a tech industry and have terrible pay. West coast USA is where everything that matters is. Kids get out of school here and earn 80k.

>>969590

This is about open source projects, you don't need to slurp starbucks in a hip San Fransisco office to develop the software, you can do it from the comfort of your home literally anywhere in the world as long as you have an internet connection.

>>969591

Yes because good developers should make unskilled level shit wages so you bitches can complain about all the software they write. I'm sure that's why OSS is doing so well.

>>969592

"Good developer" implies good software. If "bitches complain" about all the software you write then you're probably not as good of a developer as you think.

I'm confident enough to claim that if Krita was my project (see: I was familiar with all the inner workings and it was written in the language and style and design that I'm comfortable with), I could do a better job than whoever is working on Krita and I would do it for 1500€ per month.

>>969594

> If "bitches complain" about all the software you write then you're probably not as good of a developer as you think.

You faggots complain about literally all software.

>>969597

I care about the software and I care about programming. However, enjoying programming is dependent on the programming being enjoyable, and it's not enjoyable if it involves shifting through Pajeet's OOP diarrhea all day and changing your programming practices to be compatible with theirs. Nobody wants to listen to someone else's ideas no matter how obviously valid they are, so it's not like I can help without doing changes myself.

dunno i live on less than $1600USD/month and i work full time on my own software and other projects with no pay or donations. most of that money goes to renting a house (an actual house, as opposed to the other bullshit you can live in)

>$4000USD/month

because millenials. they think it's normal to spend $15 on a meal. at least it isn't $3 million a month to push a bunch of CRUD around like your typical software company

>vector graphics

millenials pls go

>>969590

>what is a bubble

>>969592

you should just kill yourself for objecting to the comment you replied to

>>969596

newsflash: almost all software is complete shit, that's why this board exists

>>969604

Congrats Anon you make less than an unskilled Walmart employee. You guys must really be peak developers top tier for sure.

>>969643

i make zero dollars because i quit my job you dickfuck. do you spend $4000 on hiring male hookers or something, which makes you better? would it make you happy if i spent $2000 a month on new gayming rigs or vacations?

your post reaches unprecedented levels of not an argument and fails to even find anything to argue against

>>969594

>I'm confident enough

I noticed. It's unwarranted.

>if Krita was my project

But it's not.

>I was familiar with all the inner workings

But you're not.

>and it was written in the language and style and design that I'm comfortable with),

But it's not. It's written in what it's written in and the way it's written.

>I could do a better job than whoever is working on Krita and I would do it for 1500€ per month.

More of that unwarranted confidence.

Do you know how absurd you sound? If, if, if. You'd be willing to accept poverty-level wages if Krita were written to your adorable little meme specifications. Well, it's not, and if it were, it would probably perform abominably, if at all.

>>969669

>poverty-level wages

Most people don't live in whatever kike cash grubbing hipster city you live in.

I don't know what the point of the rest of your post was.

>>969576 (OP)

Modern devs can very rarely use simple powerful languages and so lack an understanding of simple methods.

They do not think of an array of characters, because they've only ever used meme languages where that was already hidden away behind a string type.

Go look at their github accounts and see how many of them have any project in C, or with curses.

>>969592

Not everyone is motivated by base materialism. Some of us actually have morals and convictions.

>>969671

>Most people don't live in whatever kike cash grubbing hipster city you live in.

I don't live in a "kike cash grubbing hipster city." I don't live in a city at all. Nice meme density, though. Really demonstrates your propensity for original thought.

>I don't know what the point of the rest of your post was.

There's a whole lot you don't know about.

>>969675

>I don't live in a city at all

Well I do. Downtown in a small/medium sized 99% white European city worthwhile enough to have a fair amount of tourism and businesses, in which apartments costs around 500€ per month. I guess I'm just biased and the rest of the world is shit.

>hurrr its too much money

It's cheap as fuck you jew. Thank god I got out of tech and went to a less cucked field

>>969589

Most people don't enjoy programming and can't understand people who do.

>>969576 (OP)

Any one worth hiring would already be working at a company and not playing with poorly managed software with no value.

>>969597

Because we have carpal tunnel and jobs.

>>969576 (OP)

>3500*12

>=42000

>*.70 (typical euro tax rate)

>=29400 eur

>this much fucking money to live on

The main problem is probably that they don't want to hire street shitters, so they have to raise the pay to attract people. Even that is puny tbh.

>>969589

If everyone knew how to program, they would be. Try tutoring some normalfags learning programming sometime, even the most basic shit flies past them.

>>969700

>if it's so trivial to design and program complex pieces of software

Nobody said that. The software as a whole is huge and complex which is precisely why people aren't making their own and it's so hard for new people to get in, but individual problems/features are not difficult. If you think they're difficult then you're doing exactly the kind of disjointed OOP trash that was mentioned. When someone already has that software it's incredibly frustrating as an outsider when simple problems take forever to get fixed and new features are shitty and/or broken.

It's hard enough to get familiar with someone else's codebase, but it's much harder when it's a huge project where they use a different language and different programming paradigms and completely different design philosophy than you do. It's like how people tell you "it's open source just check the source if you think it's spying on you!", then you download the codebase and it's 2 fucking gigabytes.

>most FOSS developers actually care more about their project

I don't think you care about your project a lot if you slap in a half assed XML editor as a text tool and don't touch it again for half a year when it's one of the most long time desired features in a program that's specifically for drawing and has other comic related features. And then you start a dev fundraiser and literally tell everyone that you're not planning to finish it with said fundraiser.

>>969669

>1500€

>poverty

post discarded

>>969700

you seemed to have missed the part where OP posted this pic:

>3500€/month living

>for fucking software

now, since literal faggots in SF get $100KUSD/year for writing shitty software that "solves" "new" "problems" in JS (typically, a logging application, analytics, e-shop, etc) that a 16 year old could have written, 3500€ a month doesn't sound that high, and it isn't. the problem here is that this faggot is saying he _needs_ it. the software industry is one of the most overpayed bourgeois piece of shit industries out there that provides no value to anyone, and it should die. literally 99% of programming jobs are just "hmm i need to sell something" and they are able to make money because some other company says "hmm i need to buy something". even i was overpayed and i admit it. i couldn't care less if i never had that opportunity because the industry rightfully killed itself before i could cash out

>programming is _hard_

kill yourself. go back to HN with that bullshit and "programming is a big boy job it needs the big boy bucks". over here you can't report me and get me banned for calling you out as a dick sucking faggot

>>969714

this industry is diluted with utter retards. it doesn't matter if there's another class of people who are more retarded

>>969683

>cuck XDDD

the entire economy is strained to support spending huge amounts of money on software for the sake of it you fuck. see obama's fetishizing "code"). if the economy was normal, all these brogrammers would get mcdonalds salaries and higher software engineers like kernel/driver/"systems" programmers would be getting maybe $60K USD tops (most of these people are shit too, but most fags on these e-drama forums are only concerned about brogrammers and like their "old guard"). what we need is a new class of programmers who actually understand shit all around (most "systems" or embedded programmers will literally rewrite strcpy into an shit slow insecure version with a fixed buffer that overflows). _then_ we can talk about $100K+ USD salaries

>>969715

>Nobody said that. The software as a whole is huge and complex which is precisely why people aren't making their own and it's so hard for new people to get in

wrong. i made the world's best image viewer in 2 days (it's called nigchink, it will be released soon). software is easy. the problems are from the system. for example there is no good way to designate files you want to open. you have to use the existing infrastructure, such as the command line or some file browser, both of which are shit. not to mention you need tagged filesystems. you can roll your own method but this is a generic problem that should exist for other types of files (such as music) and not just images. the whole problem with software is that everything including firmware and hardware needs to be redone

>, but individual problems/features are not difficult.

correct

>>969671

Uh huh, So how much is rent where you live, and how nice is it?

>>969758

>>1500€

>poverty

>post discarded

Lol, if you can save and afford a running late model car you’re poor.

>>969604

>dunno i live on less than $1600USD/month and i work full time on my own software and other projects with no pay or donations.

Must live in a slum and eat shitty fast food all day, not able to save and have no car. Soooo probably just a LARPing NEET living with his mom. I live in Arizona one of the cheapest states to lhave be in and $1600 would be impossible to live on considering its $800 a month for a single bedroom apt and even a cheap used car will run $600 a month between car payment, taxes, and insurance.

This also presumes your perfectly healthy and I haven’t even touched on food utilities etc.

>>969754

>Maybe some of the devs have kids or something

Fair point, but even then 3500 is pushing it based on my own family. That sounds like a number you pull out if you demand luxurious life, but if that salary will get you to do good work at a good pace then I'll accept it. What I've seen doesn't inspire me to believe it will though.

>>he bitches about design and implementation details on other websites but refuses to discuss them with the developers

You really think FOSS developers will listen to some random guy from 8chan if he starts telling them what they're doing wrong in terms of UX or feature design and what to prioritize? Open source software would be a whole lot more shiny and popular with normalfags if that ever happened.

>>969763

>>969681

I'd love to tell more but I don't want to dox myself.

>>969604

I agree sir. If the developer needs to have his life on 3500€ a per month, there is no reason he should be kept hired to live in this expensive place. It is not needed for software development to live in a large home in particular expensive city. For the price of 1 developer like that Krita can hire a whole programmer team in India where the cost of living standards is more reasonable and coding talent is even higher.

>>969576 (OP)

>>969715

>>969754

I did some quick web searches and skimmed the docs. Krita uses SVG for all vector shit internally so it can import and export vector data easily. Supporting the SVG standard means supporting its <text> element and they figured they'd reuse it for their text tool instead of writing their own donut steel text handling.

Personally, if I were writing a bitmap image editor I wouldn't support SVG exports at all but I understand their reasoning, even if the implementation is iffy right now.

>>969758

>nigchink

>better than sxiv

I'll believe it when I see it.

>>969774

>You really think FOSS developers will listen to some random guy from 8chan if he starts telling them what they're doing wrong in terms of UX or feature design and what to prioritize

People discuss implementation details in mailing lists and IRC channels all the time without acting like gigantic faggots, and it's not like they'll know you're from 8chan unless you announce it.

>>969590

I'm just out of college got my 401k and i make six figures, I'm 19, i own my own house and six cars, I also own my own business and my boss just promoted me to deputy vice manager, I just bought my first car in cash, brand new, and I just had an Olympic swimming pool put in, also paid for in cash.

unfortunately, I stubbed my toe on a gold brick in my 450,000 square atrium with a five level fountain, and the medical bills have bankrupted me, so I'm on food stamps now.

>>969675

>san francisco aids collector detected

>>969778

>sir

subservient faggot

>>969576 (OP)

>to require this much fucking money to live?

Pajeet detected.

>>969781

>SVG

Oh shit I've been thinking of XML all this time. Not that the point changes a lot.

Maybe that's why it's so crappy, because they decided to go the SVG route and having to work around that instead of a good dedicated tool is so awkward that nobody wants to do it. The correct solution would be to convert the text from your dedicated format into vector shapes or svg characters or something when you export. Quality of your own program comes first.

>People discuss implementation details in mailing lists and IRC channels all the time

I just don't believe that

< some_guy has logged in for the first time! >

> some_guy: Hey guys you should prioritize working on X, here's how to do it right...

> some_guy: Also you know the text tool? You should work on that, I'm sure nobody has told you this yet.

will go well. I could probably make a mini design document if I really wanted to point out everything that I think should be tweaked/fixed about Krita specifically and how, and which ones are more important than others.

>>969773

no i have the best house you can rent without paying over $2000 (for some shit meant for like 5 people which is just bigger and still bad quality). it has big yards unlike all the new houses that cost $750K to buy and feel like they're gonna fall over when there is wind. i'm listing USD, but i don't live in america. the rent is around $1200 so maybe my $1600 estimate is a bit low, but it's around there

>eat fast food all day

so $30/day? that's $900/month

restaurants are for niggers, i cook my food from basic ingredients

>cars

are botnet, fuck you

>$600/month for a shitty used car

what the fuck. people actually go to work full time so they can afford a botnetmobile so they can look cool with their friends or pretend to be important???

>>969797

millenial detected

>42,000 euros a year

That's not a lot of money. Even game devs make more than that. At least in America.

>>969774

>Fair point, but even then 3500 is pushing it based on my own family.

I don't know where you live, but if that seems like a lot to you you probably don't live somewhere with a high cost of living. Alternatively your family already owned the land when they moved there.

Unfortunately the majority of programmers live in areas where the cost of a small house is ridiculous, and they have college loans to pay so they can't just scrape by.

>>969800

>The correct solution would be to convert the text from your dedicated format into vector shapes or svg characters or something when you export

This could complicate or break SVG exporting if they add incompatible features, and interoperability with other programs is a big deal for Krita's devs so I doubt they'll move away from SVG anytime soon.

>I just don't believe that

It happens all the time, just check literally any mailing list or bugtracker. The key is learning how to not sound like an asshole who doesn't RTFM or do basic web searches.

http://david.woodhou.se/email.html

>>969821

>just check literally any mailing list or bugtracker

aside from most Gnome or Lennart Poettering projects

>>969827

>If you want accurate SVG editing then use a vector editor like Inkscape

That's the point. Almost anything involving shapes or paths are better represented by vectors, so Krita supports some basic vector editing shit to make resizing and tweaking these easy, but if you need anything more complicated you just import from Inkscape.

>Not sure I'll be able to not sound like an asshole when I have so many things to say.

Practice, faggot. It doesn't even require cucking out, most of it is just some basic etiquette, doing your research before posting, and realising you aren't the centre of the universe or always right.

>>969758

Lol, what are you some Silicon Valley exec butt mad that you can’t pay good programmers pajeet salaries.

The only reason why pajeets take such shit pay is because the H1-B makes them serfs.

IT employers like Apple have already been caught colluding with other companies to keep wages down so if anything dev salaries should be higher.

>>969801

>cars are botnet, fuck you

How the fuck are you getting to work you fucking larping NEET.

>the rent is around $1200 so maybe my $1600 estimate is a bit low, but it's around there

That’s stupid low, and usually only available in economically depressed areas that DON’T have high paying tech jobs. Most of my coworkers pay $1000 a mont rent. The only reason I pay so much less is that I’ve been in the same place for 7 years and got grandfathered in at a lower rent. And I have a 800 point credit score so they don’t want to lose me.

>so $30/day? that's $900/month

Lol not more like $15 a day. And that pretty close to the 9$ a day food budget you can get and you can only get that if you carefully plan and don’t eat anything organic.

>what the fuck. people actually go to work full time so they can afford a botnetmobile so they can look cool with their friends or pretend to be important???

Yeah you’re a larper, a modest car is $300 a month payment, full coverage is at least $100 for most people, and gas is usually $150 a month and that’s on the low end. Add in incidentals like repairs and wear items like tires and yes the real total cost can easily go over $600 a month in real terms. I’m not even including depreciation in that estimate.

Just STFU, or take the poverty wages being offered on open source projects and prove me wrong.

>>969774

>I-I-I can’t tell you how much I pay in rent or how big my place is or I’ll dox myself.

Lol, it’s cause your mommy pays your rent,

>>969778

This but unironically.

>>969576 (OP)

>How is it possible for an open source developer to require this much fucking money to live?

Children, family, house, car, etc.

the 3DPD shunning NEET anime watching lifestyle isn't for everyone.

>>969576 (OP)

You get what you pay for.

>>969576 (OP)

For the same reason for medicine. It is not hard to sit your ass in a chair all day and prescribe cheat pharpaceutic meds and gain 10K+/month for this. It is just that people pay this price so they require it.

>>969884

>Why waste so much money hiring a wholesome family life father to do the programming, instead of some/several tech autists who spend all day in their basement programming anyway?

Because the maintainer is a middle aged churchfag and doesn't want to go to expos and conferences with autistes.

>>969881

The program better become really good after this.

It's just now occurring to me that someone who makes 3500 a month in another job will probably need 3500 per month to do this kind of job too, regardless of how well they can do it. To put it in another words, 3500 is not necessarily the cost of their skills, but the price to maintain their current lifestyle.

Programming is a full time job, you need to for taxes, services, food, rent, vacations, courses, and so on. u$s 3500 is not that much.

>>969861

go back to HN, bubblefag

>>969864

>how are you getting to work

i quit my job. I bussed there when I wasn't working from home. i basically had to go there more often than not to make it look like im doing work

>That’s stupid low

it's not income, i don't waste my money on retarded bullshit because i'd like to stay "NEET" for as long as possible. ive lived off my money longer than ive worked, which by definition makes me uncucked

>Lol not more like $15 a day.

i don't pay remotely near that for food for a day

>Yeah you’re a larper,

what am i LARPing about? cars? I don't give a shit about cars. I already knew they were botnet 15 years ago and after the uConnect vuln I continued to know they are botnet. I rode a $1000 mountain bike until it was stolen last month after 4 years of use, which needed a new crankset which would cost hundreds of $ anyway and broken brakes etc. what i really want is GNU+CAR and somehow have no insurance to waste money on. car insurance is only there because every faggot and their dog like to spend $50K on a car and complain when someone crashes into it like they owe them $50K for breaking their unnecessariy expensive bullshit

>>969895

how much tax income tax would OP's guy have to pay in his EU country? would he even have to pay income tax or maybe he doesn't because it's non-profit?

one other fag here brought up a good point which is debt from paying for school. you don't need school to program but if he has debt he has debt

>>969946

>cars

>unnecessary

If you're a city bugman who never leaves his liberal hellhole, sure.

>>969758

Perhaps you're right that programming isn't hard, but the reality is that most jobs aren't hard (at least not intellectually). Most of the work a lawyer or doctor does is pretty repetitive and trivial, but what they both have in common with programmers is that there aren't a lot of people willing to put the mental effort in to get the education required. Doctors and lawyers need a lot more education, but there's also only a limited amount of demand for them. Meanwhile there seems to be an unlimited demand for programmers as the tech sector continues to grow and the vast majority of idiots on this planet are completely incapable of grasping the most basic concepts of it. These are people that are barely capable of passing a college calc class, and those are just the ones who actually made it to college.

If you're over 25, make less than $70K a year, and aren't happy with your job then you're either lazy or an idiot.

>>969800

>The correct solution would be to...

Download source code, implement thing that you are talking about and send patch to maintainer(s).

>>969582

Thanks SHG Nackt

>>969715

Complexity pays.

>>969887

Exactly, the faithful ones makes projects work.

>>969994

Infinite demand = High salary

>>970038

Which part of Europe has 43% income tax?

>>970039

tax+socialist medical care tax. 100% of which goes straight to migrants that never paid a single cent.

>>969994

>Perhaps you're right that programming isn't hard

Anyone that thinks this has never met 80% of the population. Just remember when you were in college and everyone was an idiot, those were the top 50%.

>>970038

>tfw my annual income is ~8000 eur

>>970049

I just checked and 8% of my income goes into taxes. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but that's what it seems to amount to.

>>970058

You are either incredibly poor or your employer takes the taxes out for you. Usually you never actually manually pay taxes.

>>970055

>>970058

where are you from?

>>970059

I'm self-employed, I do my own taxes. However, I never actually paid any because my income was never above the taxable threshold. I do have to pay mandatory minimum social and health insurance though, which comes to ~2500 eur annually.

>>970060

One of the smaller slavic countries in the EU.

>>970063

I always feel bad for you slavs. I see so many very talented devs there that would be making literally 5-10x if they moved.

>>970063

>~2500 annually

you pay that in 3 months in countries like germany and probably all of scandinavia. you know, the countries that try to import all of africa for some reason

>>970066

vedä vittu päähäs :--DDD

>>970069

pylly kipu :--DD

>>970065

Eh, I do like 30 hours of actual work per month. I'd rather have freedom than money. Being poor is not a problem when you're a single, car-less, debt-free, asocial vegetarian in a low-cost-of-living country. I'm fine. Hell, I even have five digits invested in the stock market.

>>970085

I have the life I wanted. Other people's definition of success does not concern me.

>>970089

I dunno, other than working and being a veggiefag that guy has it good.

>>969606

newsflash: almost all anons here have unreasonable standards

>>970089

Quick everyone invest in bitcoins so we don't end up losers!!!

>>970118

>implying

>>969576 (OP)

> How is it possible for an open source developer to require this much fucking money

How much money they need depends on where they live.

Sadly most of them instead of chosing to live in a rural area they decided they want to live is some faggot place like silicon valley.

>>970129

Yes because dialup is just great for a fulltime computer user.

>>970128

By all means tell us how much you're paying in taxes on it faggot. You've been here all night complaining about rent so I know you don't have any.

>>970140

You have me confused with someone else anon. Probably one of the dozen europoors in this thread.

>>970135

>dial-up

It isn't 1999 anymore anon. I live in the middle of nowhere and have good broadband. There is no excuse for living in those cesspits that are cities anymore. What they pay in rent they could put towards a house+land in almost any are an hour outside of a major city. If you're seeing a comma in your paycheck where I live you're making really good money. I know people making $1,000 a month that can afford a house.

>>970143

>i live in the middle of nowhere

>good broadband

you must live in a 3rd world country then because all 1st world countries have literally 0 internet outside of cities

>>970143

> I live in the middle of nowhere and have good broadband.

Well then your experience is totally unrepresentative of almost everyone. Unless by "good broadband" you mean shitty satellite with hundreds of MS ping, or DSL at a few mbit a second.

>>970143

Highly doubtful. I live in the middle of the city and get 12down and 1up. Outside the city it's even worse.

>>970148

>I live in a cesspit with shit internet

I get 100mbps over an hour from the nearest mid-sized city. The nearest large city is 3+ hours away. Sounds like you just live in the ghetto anon.

>>970153

>100mbps

100Mbps symmetrical*

>>970153

>i make shit up all day on the internet

okay lol

>>970153

>>970155

Bullshit.

>>970156

>>970157

Believe what you want. Ask yourself what's more possible.

>city cable/phone lines are shit because they were laid in the late 70s/early 80s

>country cable lines laid in the late 2000s with few people on them are better maintained because they are easy to work on

Cityfags will make any excuse for continuing to live in their cesspits.

>>970161

More like the rural areas have NO cable lines, and barely working cell service. JFC there are basic stats on this available.

>I want to live in the city

>I want 700 gb/s internet

>I want a big house

>I want a fancy modern car with all the bells and whistles

It's starting to become clear why you need over 3000€ per month to live. Because you live a life of materialism and want someone to fund it.

>>970166

>Picture of random internet plan

>>970167

Poorfags in denial now

>>970166

and where is this magical internet wonderland?

>inb4 i d-don't want to dox m-myself

>>970169

You have to give you address to get that result faggot. Like I said it's the poorfag plan and if you want to bump up to the good plan like I did you get symmetrical. I'm not the one here all smug about the fact that I'm paying $1k+ a month in rent and shitposting at adsl speeds.

>>970166

Damn I miss spectrum. In college I had that and then my new apartment is split between ATT and Comcast. I hate both, but called Comcast first. Three indian people and two sales pitches for home security(of an apartment) later I found out that instead of providing both services to the complex, half can only use Comcast and half can only use ATT.

Internet on phone cables is not good.

>>969946

>how much tax income tax would OP's guy have to pay in his EU country? would he even have to pay income tax or maybe he doesn't because it's non-profit?

I think the guy is from Germany, i don't know what labor laws are ruled there.

>you don't need school to program but if he has debt he has debt

Not all countries requires to be in debt to study.

>>969994

>If you're over 25, make less than $70K a year, and aren't happy with your job then you're either lazy or an idiot.

being a doctor or lawyer actually requires intellectual reasoning. being a programmer just requires sounding like an autistic faggot who knows what he's talking about.

>if you're not happy with your job you're a Schlemiel^Widiot

>>970114

great, than shut the fuck up and go back to HN where you can report and ban people for calling your trendy lifestyle "gay as fuck" while defending your retarded bubble job where you get $100K for writing PHP

>>970129

why would you trust your money to anyone living there? you're guaranteed to get some retard white nigger who thinks software engineering means he went to the latest presentation on react or whatever by twitbook, or some other kind of person who is just a meme

>>970135

that's not how it works. i don't even have internet, just this weekend. why do you need internet?

>>970143

even in the early 2000s we got far better than dial up in the country

>>970146

howbout shut the fuck up if you don't know what you're talking about?

>>970148

that's not representative of current ISP rates in murica, nignog

>>970169

Ask yourself if you really need all those things. I have a 5mbs download according to a speed test and I've never had problems watching streams/videos and torrenting chinese cartoons and shit. Car is a means to get from place to another, you don't need the latest unused model, in fact there's a chance you don't even need a car most of the time as long as you're not a fatass who can't bike for 15 minutes without having a heart attack.

>>970167

this. /thread

>>970169

>poorfag

not an argument, it's not even clear what you're trying to argue against

>>>/g/

>>970170

it's fucking 100mbps and CAPPED. this is nothing special nor new you dickfuck

>>970171

Who gives a shit what the address is this is normal for rural america you say most addresses nwould be fine. O wait your bullshitting that's why.

>>970177

You must be a faggot in rural Cali or something. Where the population density might as well be a city. Not like 99 percent of America

ITT: some NEET anon telling lies about his supposed hispeed internet out in the boonies

lmao

>>970183

not the same guy but in rural north US we got say 200KB/s in rural northeast US, which is not dialup as this faggot >>970135 states

>>970186

and this was early 2000s

>>970186

>Less than 1mbit

>Good

Lmao

>>970188

200KB/s is more than 1mbit ya dingus.

>>970190

*2

>>970188

how is 200KB/s less than 1mbit, you dickfuck? it's far faster than dial up which is what the original argument was about. and was around 2001 or so. do the math. it's not hard to believe someone out there has a mere capped 100mbit 17 years later (although maybe in murica you can't quite get that speed). also 200KB/s is actually good enough for most shit unless you're an incompetent faggot who uses netflix and skype

>>970193

>someone out there

one fucking county != america which is what the faggot claimed

Does America have uncapped connections yet or do you fatties still get throttled after downloading more than 1GB a month? kek

>>970199

as I said it was northeast US

>>969802

>Undervaluing yourself makes you a millennial

Stay poor faggot.

>>970211

*Not wanting to undervalue yourself...

I'm not deleting dubs

>>970208

if you think the average dev is unironcally worth $100K, pls jump off your highrise apartment right now

>If devs were actually overpaid, demand for devs at these salaries would be dropping.

oh okay, it must be a feature then that your web browser crawls to a halt when you have more than 2 tabs open. oh wait the market is just based on the opinion of masses (hahaha it's because you don't have 32GB RAM, faggot!) of retards (and gov fraud^Wfunding) as opposed to any kind of quality

>rest of post just based on premise that the proper pay for devs is $100K/year

>>970211

>i am worth sooo much because i know how to use pointers in C and syscalls

>i am worth sooo much because i know how to usde lint, unit tests, and CI

>i am worth sooo much because i know how to avoid XSS and SQLi

literally all you faggots. you're going to crash your own retarded market (what the fuck do you even sell? fortnite skins? web analytics? cdn?) and be making less than the mcdonalds salaries you deserve

>>970231

>Butthurt brainlet the post.

You see brainlet, someone like me can answer whatever difficult tasks the market has a need for, and I will expect to be paid

appropriately. To get into that position, I have spent considerable time studying mathematics, engineering and computer science.

>>970233

>brainlet

not an argument, not even clear what is attempting to be argued.

the average developer is not worth $100K, faggot, nor is the "lol i know what pointers are i am now 1337, which mostly inhabits forums like this".

>someone like me can answer whatever difficult tasks the market has a need for, and I will expect to be paid appropriately.

>the market has a need for

<implying the market has needs or any form of rationality

>paid appropriately

yeah i can and have coded whatever task i come up against too, but the way you phrase this makes it obvious that you're a gigantic faggot

>>970238

>the average developer is not worth $100K

They are worth that, if someone is willing to pay them for that skill. That's how market value is determined, by a market.

>lol i know what pointers are i am now 1337

This was a product of your imagination, no one said this.

You have to be white, and over 18 to post here.

>>970170

Near Greensboro, NC.

>>970179

It isn't capped. I go through TBs every month. I have three houses, my entire farm and a business hooked up to the line.

>>970240

>They are worth that, if someone is willing to pay them for that skill. That's how market value is determined, by a market.

yep, you argue like a dick sucking faggot. I'm talking about real worth here, not "le market demand XDDDDDDDDDD". these are two different concepts. you can't use your autistic aliasing of words to change what i'm arguing about into your own retarded idea. someone who designs a shit website like instagram, is not worth $100K. literally a 14 year old could do the same thing in PHP 15 years ago for minimum wage.

>>lol i know what pointers are i am now 1337

>This was a product of your imagination, no one said this.

if you think that either you haven't been on a lot of programming forums (because you're under 18, lol) or you are one of them. or do you actually think all the people who spam forums about how superior they are because they code C are competent enough to program a low level language both efficiently and reliably?

most likely your skillset is very small and you are arguing to maintain a barrier before people find out and stop overpaying you. same thing happens with digital arts fags. they have no real value and so if you get into a copyright debate with them they'll start defending it vehemently because they think it's the only reason they can make a living (despite the fact that the market will throw their money at all kinds of shit they will never even use, especially on digital arts. e.g fortnite skins, muh video games, music)

>>970244

This poorfag is really triggered he could never get a well paying job. Please leave larper.

>>970244

>someone who designs a shit website like instagram, is not worth $100K. literally a 14 year old could do the same thing in PHP 15 years ago for minimum wage.

Correct that they are not worth $100K, it is far greater, their idea was worth billions in fact! In a world full of capable people, only they managed to pull it off with the right combination of simplicity and features, and the market responded. Real world demand is the best method we have to determine the worth of something, all other methods of valuation are based on the hypothetical.

YOU, some bitter poorfag on the internet do not get to decide the ceiling for what anything is worth. Make sure you understand at least this much, or you'll be wasting time for both of us. I personally ascribe zero value to putting a basketball in a net, but that is irrelevant so long as a multibillion dollar market exists.

>most likely your skillset is very small

You are projecting your own inadequacies, and it is sad. Also no, I am a do not spend a lot of time on elementary programming forums, most professional programmers do not.

*I am a do

While I am a do, that should be 'I do'.

>>970177

lol you're pretty mad

>>970253

TL;DR

>I'm overpaid and I should keep being overpaid, if you're not overpaid then you're POOR and have a POOR LIFE

>>970259

poorfag mad hes not making big bucks

>>970244

>people who spam forums about how superior they are because they code C

Is this a cry for help? Is there something about pointers you don't understand, because that is what surmise from your psychotic ranting. You have hit an intellectual stumbling point, and as a coping mechanism, have decided that the very thing you find difficult is a mere irrelevancy.

>>970261

You sure know how to copy paste the same bait a lot.

>>970248

no, you leave. this board isn't for faggots who think they should get paid $200K to write some JS code

>>970253

>continues to speak in terms of "muh real world demand" despite being made clear that argument is not about it

>instists that nothing else exists

>unironically can only think in terms of money

>therefore concludes that anyone who doesn't like the current state of the software industry must be a "bitter poorfag"

>you insulted me, therefore you are projecting

pathetic. typical retard on programming forums these days. luckily you don't get your banhammer when i call you out as a faggot. you literally have so much capitalism cock in your mouth that you are unable to comprehend an argument claiming that the market is retarded and paying too much for a guy who writes CRUD on an image viewing website

>I [do] not spend a lot of time on elementary programming forums, most professional programmers do not.

ALL programming forums are elementary you nigger. get a clue

>most professional programmers

stop posting. it's was already obvious 4 posts ago that you're a moron who takes his job seriously. and now it's 100% confirmed

>>970264

>>970263

>web developers make more money than you do

man what a life you must be really skilled

>>970262

no, i was citing a sterotype. I coded assembly every day and now I code C every day. When I came to C I was astonished at how much false elitism there is. i can only guess you're one of these retards by the way you talk (or maybe you read my post out of context)

>>970264

>ALL programming forums are elementary you nigger. get a clue

You'll just have to take my word for it, but there are places where people like to have discussions, without dull people like you complaining that 'pointers are hard'.

>>970266

male homosexual whores make more money than I do, which is $0, what's your fucking point? oh you literally can only reason in money. you ignore the fact that I'm living off the money i made from working. since my current salary is $0, i am a pleb. what great logic as i should expect from a fellow channer

>>970271

where did i say pointers are hard? my claim was there exists a class of people who think they are smart and elite because they learned some basic C and pointers. literally at my last job someone sent us an application saying "i am good at pointers" and i asked him how to make a conforming format string for a function pointer and he had no idea and was not even able to say he doesnt know how and it's just trivia. if you don't understand that there is a big class of C programmers like this, you aren't worth talking to. please use a trip so we can filter you

>>970275

*like yourself

fuck deleting posts

>>970274

I actually believe this story, but you are the applicant.

>we can filter you

>we

You're on your own poorfag.

>>970275

>>970277

>>970279

lol they pussied out with a bunch of non arguments and unparsable sentences. /thread

>>970289

You definitely won this argument poorfag.

>>970289

Sorry anon those were my paid shills that I could afford by virtue of not being a poorfag.

>>970292

I should start programming HTML as well so I can afford my own shills.

>>970293

<h1>go fuck yourself</h1>

>>970297

580€ has been deposited to your account for overtime coding.

>>970299

1160€ has been deposited in your account for overtime management tasks

>>970299

Wow, I can see how these salaries are really hurting startups.

I hate this. Everyone knows C programmers are superior to Javascript programmers because of pointers. But pointers are super hard, and I struggle with them. function pointers, pointers to function pointers which take function pointers as arguments all wrapped in arrays that are passed around as pointers. It does my head in. It pisses me off that javascript programmers are riding around in top range Audis and they don't know any of this stuff. They literally just make websites, that even a 14 year old child could. I could do it too, BUUUUT I'm a not some bad programmer that uses JS, I use C. I am a REAL programmer and no one should be earning more than me. It's just NOT fair.

>How is it possible for an open source developer to require this much fucking money to live? In general how is it supposedly so difficult to develop this piece of software?

That's not how a salary works, you don't get paid the minimum necessary to barely survive. You're paid what you're worth, which depends on 1) who needs you 2) who is willing to work for cheaper. That salary isn't even good, as >>969714 shows that's only 42k a year and that's before taxes. That's like two minimum wages or so depending on the country he's in.

If you can do the same (or better) job for less you're free to release your own competing software.

>>970313

>lol just make a second photoshop bro

A single person can only work on so many things at once, but there's infinite projects one could work on. I can count the amount of truly great programs with my fingers.

>>970319

Last I checked Krita is free software. You don't have to start from scratch, you can fork it. If your fork is superior it'll beat the original version and you may get to work on it even for free if you want to.

>>970309

Pointers are just a simple concept, and lots of other languages have them. The hard part about C is avoiding undefined behavior.

>>970349

ops post went over your head.

>>970167

You need to make as much money as you can because as machines start taking over every job sector you'll get paid less and less, and unless you want to end up a basic income slave in 30 years you'll need to have enough capital to make money from investments. Finance is the only sector that won't be directly affected by automation since even if robots can do everything we can do better, they still won't own capital.

>>970365

>>>/pol/

>>970368

Everywhere I look, I just see /pol/.

>>970058

About a third of my income goes to taxes and I live in the US. I've always been told Europe had even higher taxes.

>>970365

>Finance is the only sector that won't be directly affected by automation since even if robots can do everything we can do better, they still won't own capital.

Lol what an idiot, someone will still own those machine LMAO.

>>970264

>no, you leave. this board isn't for faggots who think they should get paid $200K to write some JS code

Lol, sorry that you're stupid enough to take shit pay and now want everyone else to join you in your misery.

>>970264

>no, you leave. this board isn't for faggots who think they should get paid $200K to write some JS code

Says who? You? Why would anyone take less money that they can get?

>>970167

>It's starting to become clear why you need over 3000€ per month to live. Because you live a life of materialism and want someone to fund it.

No faggot, it's because I have to fund my own retirement, need to have a one year's emergency fund, don't want any debt, and want to own my own home. Having all my needs met and being able to not get rekt by unforeseen circumstances, and not be a burden on anyone in my old age is not materialistic LMAO.

>>970386

You can have all of that for much less.

>>969946

>i quit my job. I bussed there when I wasn't working from home.

Any places that is bikeable or has good public transportation is not going to have cheap rent. Oh and since you don't work anymore please shut the fuck up about what's salary is necessary you fucking welfare leech.

>it's not income,

So you don't pay taxes, yeah see that's not possible for people that have employers.

>i don't pay remotely near that for food for a day

What do you pay? And what are you eating. Anything plate that uses any type of spices or more than 1 ingredient is going to break $3.00.

>i don't pay remotely near that for food for a day

You're larping about being an IT pro.

>>970388

You can? Prove it! The average home here in the US is 300k. That means a 60k down payment and a $1000 a month mortgage. Oh and if you bring up condos, they're only a little less cheaper at $200 - $250 k and they come with $300 to $400 a month HOA fees. Please post the budget that allows you to pay all that AND save $1 million for retirement, which is what most finiacal experts say you need to be getting $40 a year in retirement.

>>970388

If that's true then why wouldn't I want more money to get it faster, or use it to help my loved ones. Why should I sacrifice my potential pay to my employer, what do I get out of letting my employer pay me less?

>>970289

How does letting my employer pay me less benefit me? Why is being materialistic wrong? Why is it bad for my employer to be materialistic but not me? Maybe you think letting myself get paid less will make the business stronger, but how does that benefit me, it would only benefit me if I own part of the business. And I can buy part of the business if I have more money.

>>970399

>How does letting my employer pay me less benefit me?

It isn't about you. He's saying that soon you won't be getting paid that much money an hour because your skills simply aren't worth it. Look at all skilled labor that came before /tech/ and what happened to the people that do it. They've all been replaced with mexicans like you'll be replaced with pajeet.

>>970395

>$1 million for retirement

What the fuck are you going to use 1 million for if you already own a house? Even if you spend 30 years in retirement that's 2750 dollars per month and you don't have to put a single cent of that into rent.

>>970402

>It isn't about you.

I'm the one doing the work so yes, it's about me.

>He's saying that soon you won't be getting paid that much money an hour because your skills simply aren't worth it.

No he wasn't saying that, he was saying we shouldn't be getting or expecting 100k + but neve explicitly states why. But does imply that it's morally wrong to expect such high pay for work he feels is menial.

>Look at all skilled labor that came before /tech/ and what happened to the people that do it.

WHAT skilled labor are you talking about. Jesus was a fucking carpenter and believe me skilled carpenters still get paid a lot of money. Along with any other artisan. Just because your homes were made by Mexicans with 3rd grade levels of education and electronics made by Chinese slaves doesn't mean that everyone that labors get shit wages.

>>970404

>What the fuck are you going to use 1 million for if you already own a house?

You don't USE the 1 million dipshit, you INVEST the 1 millions and SPEND the returns which come out to about 40k a year. Houses need repairs, which come about to about 2%-5% of their cost annually, still need a car, and still need to eat, pay utilities and have money for emergencies and incidentles, oh and I'd like a litle spending money, and IGAF if it offends your employer cuckold sense of morality.

>>970404

Can't do it can you, you can't produce a budget of $3500 dollars that can pay off a house and save 1 million for retirement. Just fucking do that before posting anymore nonsense.

>>970408

>I want shitloads of money so I can make even more money

>I'm not materialist though!

Also I'm checking house prices in my city right now and they range from about 50k€ to 200k€

>>970377

>1/3 my income goes to tax

which is then used to fund more software companies :^)

where did all these raging soyboys come in from all a sudden? did this thread get posted to HN?

>>970380

if someone offered to me $200K to continue doing what i was doing i would indeed take it. what's your point?

>>970383

still not an argument

>>970389

>Any places that is bikeable [for me] or has good public transportation is not going to have cheap rent.

I already stated my rent, $1200USD whether that's cheap is up to you. personally if i could go back i'd move out of the city and get somewhere cheaper, or live in a tent

>So you don't pay taxes, yeah see that's not possible for people that have employers.

what is the point here? does OP's guy have to pay tax? i payed huge chunks of my money to income tax too

>Oh and since you don't work anymore please shut the fuck up

are you butt mad because i don't fit into your gay capitalist system or do you think i am on welfare?

$3/day for anything with spices

what the fuck are you talking about. do you use like 1 pound of spice per meal?

>>i don't pay remotely near that for food for a day

>You're larping about being an IT pro.

non-sequiter, and are you unironically saying "IT pro" or are claiming I would use such a phrase?

>retirement

meme, but i don't care to move the thread to talking about normalfag shit

>>970399

you dont understand nigger, your employer should make less too, not just you

>>970408

>I'm the one doing the work so yes, it's about me.

autism

>>970408

>I'm a artisan because I do code monkey work.

Whatever you say faggot

>He's saying we shouldn't be expecting 100k

and you shouldn't. A lot of doctors don't make that much money in a year. A code monkey isn't anywhere as useful as a doctor in society.

You expectations are unreasonable and most people would be living like a millionaire if they made 100k and didn't live in the middle of an expensive city. Even in a mid-sized city you'd be in the top 10% of the population with that type of salary.

Your problem is simple, you don't know how to live within your means. I was a poorfag most of my life until my Grandfather died. I made it on 30k or less a year from the age of 18-30. I lived comfortably on that, paid my rent, maintained a car, didn't eat shit food, and supported a live in girlfriend, pets, and have active addictions like nicotine and alcohol. You're soft.

>>970415

>still not an argument

yeah it is, you don't get to say only employer cucks get to get on this board. Look I'm posting on your board right now!

>I already stated my rent, $1200USD whether that's cheap is up to you. personally if i could go back i'd move out of the city and get somewhere cheaper, or live in a tent

So that would 1/3 of your $3500 you say everyone should be happy with. Yet you still haven't shown how much you save, how much you pay in utilities etc.

>I already stated my rent, $1200USD whether that's cheap is up to you. personally if i could go back i'd move out of the city and get somewhere cheaper, or live in a tent

No, I just eat fresh organic produce, like I said tough guy, post your meal plans. It's going to be boiled beans or something like that lol

>you dont understand nigger, your employer should make less too, not just you

Lol WHAT? Why should the employer make less? Do you understand how capitalism works? Okay let's say you're right, how does taking less make my employer charge less LMAO. And again how does taking less benefit ME.

>meme, but i don't care to move the thread to talking about normalfag shit

>growing old and unemployable is a meme

12 year old detected

>autism

>protecting my own self interest is autism

Hey if you love being cucked by your employer by all means do it. There's plenty of employers that will take you up on it. If I'm not being cucked by an employer then that means more cucking for you! You'll get to get to get the pick of the litter of employers that will cuck you. Cucking is so great right? Why don't you want to keep that all to yourself.

>>970416

>I'm a artisan because I do code monkey work.

>Whatever you say faggot

You said artisans don't get paid faggot, and I proved you wrong and you come back with this bullshit strawman.

>and you shouldn't. A lot of doctors don't make that much money in a year. A code monkey isn't anywhere as useful as a doctor in society.

Why is a doctor more valuable to society than a code monkey. The IT revolution has brought unfathomable amounts of efficiency and value. Just because you don't understand the value of something doesn't mean others don't.

>You expectations are unreasonable and most people would be living like a millionaire if they made 100k and didn't live in the middle of an expensive city.

But they do so this point is moot.

>Even in a mid-sized city you'd be in the top 10% of the population with that type of salary.

That's because the average person is so poor, not because devs make so much.

>Your problem is simple, you don't know how to live within your means. I was a poorfag most of my life until my Grandfather died. I made it on 30k or less a year from the age of 18-30.

Sounds like you came into a big inheritance, so your a huge hypocrite that stopped being poor the minute he could do so.

>I lived comfortably on that, paid my rent, maintained a car, didn't eat shit food, and supported a live in girlfriend, pets, and have active addictions like nicotine and alcohol. You're soft.

Yes, you lived so comfortably you succumbed to 2 self admitted addictions. And again you didn't mention any savings, or what kind of car. You were probably fixing it all the time. I actually know how to fix my own car too, but I do it as a hobby, you're time is better spent getting better at being a dev and just paying someone to fix your car.

>>970416

>and have active addictions like nicotine and alcohol. You're soft.

Lol, becoming an addict is soft as fuck. And you're here running around tell other's they're soft, you fucking kidding me.

ITT employed Californias argue with unemployed polish communists who cannot code.

>>970435

*Californians (fuck deleting)

>Why is a doctor more valuable to society than a code monkey.

Incredible. So this is what happens when you contribute nothing of value but get paid for it anyway? You end up with a view of yourself and your "work" completely detached from reality.

Internet "hand out" sites is the biggest cancer on the internet. Closely followed by social media.

>>970457

>Incredible. So this is what happens when you contribute nothing of value but get paid for it anyway?

The stuff I'm a part of serves millions.

>You end up with a view of yourself and your "work" completely detached from reality.

How is it detached from reality, because you personally have never worked on anything of value lol

>Internet "hand out" sites is the biggest cancer on the internet.

dafaq is is a "hand out" site lol

>Closely followed by social media.

Yes social media is cancer, now if your view of dev work weren't entirely informed by TV then you might have an actual defensible opinion.

>>970457

>Incredible. So this is what happens when you contribute nothing of value but get paid for it anyway?

Doctors treat diseases, but most diseases are caused by sitting on your asses and eating garbage. If doctors are valuable because they keep people alive then personal trainers and dietitians are more valuable since they PREVENT diseases, and any doctor will tell you prevention is better and more effective than treatment.

Also maybe IT professionals are getting paid their worth but doctors are getting under paid. How is it that what the market determined what doctors get paid fair to you, but that same market that determines IT pro salaries isn't, the same mechanism determined both.

>>969576 (OP)

Food: 500

Daily lattes: 250

Single room apartment for hipsters: $2700 a month

Why can't I make money waah.

>>970569

Why do you subscribe to the idea that a developer should only have a subsistence living? What about saving money so you can buy a 50 acre plot in Montana where you raise your legion of h'White children?

I get the impression that you and the other moaners are just losers in life who were pigeon-holed into a dead-end tech job, and want fellow poorfags to commiserate with.

>>970583

Because in a communist utopia nobody but party members earns anything more than the bare minimum. Doesn't matter how good you are or how much effort you put, goyim deserve nothing.

>>970569

>Food: 500

It's higher if you don't want to eat fatty salty shit but okay I'll give it to you.

>Daily lattes: 250

I don't drink lattes, and aren't they like 5 bucks or so. Over priced but not that expensive

>Single room apartment for hipsters: $2700 a month

Oh, what's the rent for not hipster apartments, you act like only hipsters are stupid enough to pay exorbitant rent and that greedy landlords to screw everyone over.

>Why can't I make money waah.

Well go and take that $3500 dollars and write that code. Go on.... Some people have different goals, myself I"d like to make enough money to let my wife stay at home so my kids won't be raised by strangers.

If you're cool with living hand to mouth completely alone while have no money to even save for retirement or do anything entertaining more power to you cuck.

>>970741

>I didn't say they don't get paid.

You said they get paid shitty. Good carpenters don't get paid shitty.

>Because a code monkey isn't useful when SHTF. You aren't saving lives you're writing javascript.

You wouldn't know since everything you've been involved with was worthless. You do realize first responders, solders, engineers, piolits rely on a myriad of programs right?

>Name one major project to your credit.

I do the security engineering of a major gov department that moves around millions and hold the PII of millions.

>I got an inheritance but it wasn't huge and I worked for it.

Lol, that's not how inheritances work.

>He grew up in the depression and died a millionaire and never made anything close to 100k a year.

What did he make faggot, how'd he make 1 million? Out of 30k how much was he saving? Just state that number okay?

>Because he didn't live in a large city like a dipshit and pay rent to some jew like you're doing.

There aren't well paying jobs in cheap cities. Where there's well paying jobs there's high rent regardless of where it's at.

>I didn't succumb to addiction. I beat them.

You have to get an addiction first to beat it. Getting an addition isn't some right of passage like puberty. Well maybe it is in your ass backward country, but not the rest of the world.

>You're missing the point in that I could have two addictions after paying for all my shit on 30k a year.

Lol you got addicted because you lived a shitty poor fag life. You still won't post your budget or how big your place was, or utilities.

>A $2k used car should last you at least a decade or two if properly maintained.

ahahahahahha

>topkek. At most fixing a car takes an afternoon.

Not if you fuck it up. Now you're a master mechanic that never fucks up complex repairs too.

>If 18 year old scotch is "soft" then I'm guilty as charged.

You're soft because you became an alcoholic. It's not natural for a man to become addicted to alcohol idiot. It means something is really fucked up in the way you are living your life.

>>970741

>If you think anyone making under 100k is poor you're just proving my point that you have unrealistic expectations about how the world works.

How is it unrealistic if that's what I'm actually getting paid? It's you who doesn't have a realistic view of the world. You seem to think these IT companies aren't swimming in money themselves. And have no idea how valuable these apps are.

>>970741

>You're addicted to something yourself, everyone is. Be it caffeine, sugar, or shitposting.

That's where you're wrong kiddo.

>>970741

>He grew up in the depression and died a millionaire and never made anything close to 100k a year.

What did he make, and how much was he saving every year. He had children, did he just never buy them what they needed? How much did he spend on his children?

>>970741

>He knew how to live within his means and how to turn money into more money. Something you're obviously struggling with.

I'm not struggling with it though, I'm getting the type of pay from my employer that let's me live a good life and save for the future and not be in debt. That's how I handled it. Like I said you wanna be a cuck go ahead.

Let's say you're right, and you can live off of 30k a year. After taxes that's like 20k, but whatever. How does taking less pay help me? So if I can save a million dollars on 30k then I can save 3 million on 100k, 3 million is better than 1 million right? How does it help me to give that up to my employer.

And how is it not about me. If the work that I'm expected to do doesn't get done they're going to come to me. Why shouldn't I try to get every dollar I can?

>>969576 (OP)

>€3,500 a month

>for a single person

I'm guessing they live in a city, the cost of living in some European cities is fucking crazy. Rent for a shoebox flat can be half of your money after you account for tax.

>>970814

Is 3500 before or after taxes?

>>970817

When you talk about how much somebody is paid it's usually before-tax. When you talk about the cost of something it's usually after-tax.

In this context I assume €3,500 is after-tax, so you'd have to earn €4,000-€5,000 a month to actually pay it.

>>970821

>you need to earn €60,000 a year to live as a software dev in urban Yurope

What the fuck are you even spending most of that money on? Is rent really that expensive? Just live with your parents for a year or two and you'll have enough money to buy a house. Jesus.

>>970825

Isn't rent in European cities like 2k+? I agree that you can live with your parents but when I was in Germany in the 90's homes were 700k + I'm sure they're more now. Saving up 20 % is going to take more than 2 years, and that assumes you're parents live in the city you work, and assumes you never want to get laid.

>>970825

>Is rent really that expensive?

>>970569 wasn't joking. €2,700 is a realistic price for a decent flat in some European cities.

>Just live with your parents for a year or two and you'll have enough money to buy a house.

Most houses in a city will be in the range of several hundred thousand euros.

>>970827

>homes were 700k + I'm sure they're more now.

They're actually less now, with the crash of '08 and all. Still far too expensive for the average Joe to realistically be able to afford.

>>970827

>>970830

How did it get that expensive? How does anybody live in these cities if you need to be in the upper-middle class to a afford basic living arrangement?

>>970832

Either you can afford it, or you have a brutally long commute. London is terrible.

>>969758

Are you the guy who bitches and moans about LCD motion blur and how your image viewer works so much better on CRTs?

>>970832

>How did it get that expensive

Because the people you're talking to don't consider living outside the capital as an option.

>>971472

This, but market forces have already depressed dev salaries as low as they can. Apple, Oracle, HP, and pretty much all the major tech corps just settled a huge lawsuit where they were found guilty of colluding with each other to keep dev salaries down.

If anything market forces would make dev salaries even higher.

We're just going to have to raise more money for open source projects, it's honestly in our best interests to do so.

>>969582

>Any "software community" or "online community" always ends up with lazy/useless people in charge of it. They gain control through being willing to moderate the community, something the people doing the actual work don't want to deal with. Once they've gained control they start pushing people out that won't get along with their politics. This eventually spreads to the point that they push out the people that built up the community and were doing all the grunt work. Once they've seized full control they slowly destroy everything that has been built up.

Fuck, this is depressingly accurate

t. someone about to jump ship from a project at the slow destruction stage

>>971615

That's because anyone worth a damn has an actual job and runs actual profitable projects.

>>969669

>poverty-level wages

Nigger, it's called "being filthy rich" in most places of this gay planet.

>>971680

Lol, no it's not. Not being able to met your needs and some of your wants comfortably is being poor. Just because you think living hand to mouth your entire life isn't poor doesn't mean everyone else thinks so.

And again greed is good. So why shouldn't I try to get every dollar I can out of my employer? They're getting every dollar they can out of their customers.

>>971680

So what? Are starving ethiopians who would be "filthy rich" with 3.5k (1.5k?) capable of doing the work? No? Then how the fuck is it relevant? Yes? Then you can be "filthy rich" with no work by undercutting the competition and subcontracting the work to one of those ethiopians.

Btw in case you don't know 1.5k is minimum wage in plenty of countries. Burger flippers are paid that and they're poor since 1) that isn't much money at all 2) living in a civilized country is more expensive than living in the jungle.

>>971693

>Yes? Then you can be "filthy rich" with no work by undercutting the competition and subcontracting the work to one of those ethiopians.

Fuck that, get those Ethiopian salaries up to 100k as well, I don't want salaries depressed.

>>969790

I think anon was just lampooning common pajeet speech patterns.

>>970825

>What the fuck are you even spending most of that money on?

On what I want. If you want to hand back the money you earn back to your employer like a cuck you're more than free to do so.

>Is rent really that expensive?

YUP! And rent will be expensive where ever there are well paying jobs. I agree we should fight landlords over this but what you are advocating is that we should cuck ourselves to our employer out of some myopic belief that they will lower prices on software and other stuff.

>Just live with your parents for a year or two and you'll have enough money to buy a house. Jesus.

Why should I live with my parents, when I work for a living. Along with cucking myself you want me to cuck my parents to my employer too lol. I love my parents but our relationship changed once I came of age. They don't want me under foot anymore.

>>969594

>"Good developer" implies good software

And closed source projects are always better than their open source counterparts.

>>971703

Text editors.

>>970005

>and send patch to maintainer(s).

Sorry, I don't want to deal with this shit:

https://github.com/KDE/krita/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

>>972319

Then STFU or start your own project. Oh all of a sudden you can't, I thought this shit was all bullshit, and so easy.

>>970832

No, you can get your rent subsidised by the taxpayer if you're diverse enough.

>>969714

>Try tutoring some normalfags learning programming sometime, even the most basic shit flies past them.

Like most things they are better taught during adolescence. Perhaps I'm talking out of my ass, but it appears that the barrier to "programming" has more to do with the fact the starting point is rooted in it being an obscure and highly autistic hobby rather than it just objectively being difficult. Most people, even here, can't even agree on a good starting point for learning it. The first thing anyone is greeted with when even beginning to show an interest is that there a thousand different languages to choose from and every retard is shilling in 14 different directions. So maybe it is objectively difficult to learn, but I would never know why or how outside of these artificial aspects like I know why I'll never be a Quake pro.

>>975516

Quake C is unironically a good language to start. Quite a few programmers started by modding their favorite game using whatever tools were necessary to do that.

>>969767

>>1500€

>poverty

This is still way more than I'm earning.

>>969773

>$1600 would be impossible to live on

I earn a quarter of that in a month.

>>969864

Whoa, I need to bring a few yurocents in here.

You can get to work without having your own car, just take a fucking bus or ride a damn bike you autistic gaymerican nigger.

Also, most people in this board are probably single and aren't tied to their country so why not just move out of your state, or better yet move out of the entire USA?

>>983995

what shithole do you live in?

>>970039

>Which part of Europe has 43% income tax?

In France half of a salary goes into tax.

>>983995

>just take a fucking bus or ride a damn bike

Works in European cities maybe, unfortunately the United States is an urban planning disaster zone.

jesus christ this thread's a cesspit of angry virgins