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 No.957643>>957657 >>957886 >>958003 >>958402 >>961733 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

What do you think of Javascript?

 No.957651

a mistake


 No.957653>>957672

A shitty language that has been refined to the point where it's acceptable, and runs fast for a dynamically typed language. The situation is similar to C++, where the whole industry settles on a mediocre/bad language then puts in the effort to make it decent.

Modules and packaging is by far the biggest problem with Javascript.


 No.957657>>957662

>>957643 (OP)

People push it claiming its the fasted scripting language but LuaJIT is still faster than V8.

They really would use it even if it was still as slow as it used to be. It's only used because it is popular, and once it is replaced with Dart or something like that, those same people will push that shit.

They are fad riders who trick the dumber VC firms into giving them money. They love buzz words. Remember how they tried to make node.js and asynchronous programming out to be some sort of new and amazing thing?


 No.957658

Cancer


 No.957662>>957674 >>957859 >>957892 >>961749

>>957657

>People push it claiming its the fasted scripting language but LuaJIT is still faster than V8.

<my memelang is faster than a language people actually use

le


 No.957664>>957673 >>957740 >>957784 >>960127

People should have just used Lua for web languages, if any is used at all. I don't like its 1-based arrays, but it's tolerable, unlike jabbashit. Every single fucking pajeet programmer I've met likes to use jabbashit in the most awful ways.

>I like to use javascript to generate the whole web page so that it's more optimized for the user

was an actual fucking quote from some pajeet I talked to.


 No.957672>>957798 >>957875

A shitty language with an exceptionally good heart. Despite all the objectively bad features of JS, using it feels good in ways that other more traditional languages simply aren't. I don't know what exactly makes it so nice, but I suspect it's the objects; they're just so easy to use.

>>957653

Why do you say so? JS modules are pretty much equivalent to Python's. Actually, they're even more flexible than Python's modules.


 No.957673>>960530

>>957664

I agree, but languages only become popular if they are pushed by some company, and Lua never was.

Fortran was pushed by IBM, C and C++ were pushed by Bell Labs, Java was pushed by SUN Microsystems, VB and C# by Microsoft, Python was around for a while, but only became really big when Google and others started pushing it, Go was also pushed by Google, Javascript by Netscape and later Google and others, and Rust by Mozilla.

Ada was pushed by the Government, and never became super big. Apple seems unable to make language popular outside their ecosystem.

PHP and Perl certainly rose organically, but they are even worse than the corporate crap. Academic languages like the Lisps, Haskell, and others, tend not to become very popular. MATLAB was never really an acedmic language, more of a script for calculations that was turned into a language.


 No.957674

>>957662

>lua

>memelang

this is the state of /tech/


 No.957710>>957875 >>960023

The language itself is honestly not too bad after ES6. It is pretty enjoyable to write.

That's the only positive thing I can say. The language is alright, but every use of it is pretty awful. In the browser? Trash. On the server? Dear god why?

The community and ecosystem are terrible; installing any given package will probably pull in 150+ dependencies because the entire community.


 No.957740>>959987

>>957664

advantages of generating the whole web page with [some programming language]

1. many otherwise silent errors become errors that your tools tell you about

2. a finished and functional webpage appears all at once, instead of some placeholder flashing like a hypnotic suggestion before the real page shows up

3. if you are also using a diffing algorithm (mithril, react, elm, etc.), then you can continue to update the page in way that's massively more performant than you could easily otherwise get.

JS sucks and pajeets suck but not everything they touch is garbage.

Go generate your entire web pages with JS with peace of mind: http://elm-lang.org/examples


 No.957741>>957782

good tool for red teaming


 No.957774

it's a piece of aids


 No.957782>>957876

>>957741

>red teaming with JS

sounds kinky


 No.957784>>957875 >>958413 >>960516 >>961749

>>957664

Javascript has nothing to do with the current state of the web. If it was fucking Lua then everybody would be installing Lua blockers and bitching about how cancerous all this Lua is every day.

>I like to use lua to generate the whole web page so that it's more optimized for the user

The problem isn't the language in use. The problem is NEVER the language in use. The problem is, has always been, and always will be what you do with the language. The language is just a tool. The cancer is the pile of shit pajeet scraped into the shape of a circle using that tool.


 No.957798>>957875

>>957672

>A shitty language with an exceptionally good heart. Despite all the objectively bad features of JS, using it feels good in ways that other more traditional languages simply aren't. I don't know what exactly makes it so nice, but I suspect it's the objects; they're just so easy to use.

Agree that JSON objects are nice to work with. Programming in pure JS, however, is an inconvenient bitch. Add lodash into the mix and it becomes tolerable.

Frankly, the Frontend/Backend SPA app paradigm that's coming in is actually a good thing - if done properly. This is the way the Web should've been designed imo. When shit was PHP for both frontend and backend it was an utter fucking disaster. For anyone that wants to complain about muh SPA pages being bloated - build your own fucking interface that calls the JSON backends themselves.


 No.957804

It's the UNIX philosophy to language design. The complexity of UNIX languages comes from bad design which prevents improving what's already there, so a new redundant replacement is the only way to "fix" anything. In my view, C++'s std::string and char* are one feature, character strings, that has two implementations and libraries. JavaScript has var and let, function and "lambdas", and all this other redundant bullshit. This also leads to questions on Stack Overflow with all these bullshit answers because they're trying to rationalize some artifact of a 90s JavaScript implementation as though there was actually some thought put into it.

https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/9.0/

>The third edition of the Standard introduced powerful regular expressions, better string handling, new control statements, try/catch exception handling, tighter definition of errors, formatting for numeric output and minor changes in anticipation of future language growth. The third edition of the ECMAScript standard was adopted by the Ecma General Assembly of December 1999 and published as ISO/IEC 16262:2002 in June 2002.

>The fifth edition of ECMAScript (published as ECMA-262 5th edition) codified de facto interpretations of the language specification that have become common among browser implementations and added support for new features that had emerged since the publication of the third edition. Such features include accessor properties, reflective creation and inspection of objects, program control of property attributes, additional array manipulation functions, support for the JSON object encoding format, and a strict mode that provides enhanced error checking and program security. The fifth edition was adopted by the Ecma General Assembly of December 2009.

>Focused development of the sixth edition started in 2009, as the fifth edition was being prepared for publication. However, this was preceded by significant experimentation and language enhancement design efforts dating to the publication of the third edition in 1999. In a very real sense, the completion of the sixth edition is the culmination of a fifteen year effort. The goals for this addition included providing better support for large applications, library creation, and for use of ECMAScript as a compilation target for other languages. Some of its major enhancements included modules, class declarations, lexical block scoping, iterators and generators, promises for asynchronous programming, destructuring patterns, and proper tail calls. The ECMAScript library of built-ins was expanded to support additional data abstractions including maps, sets, and arrays of binary numeric values as well as additional support for Unicode supplemental characters in strings and regular expressions. The built-ins were also made extensible via subclassing. The sixth edition provides the foundation for regular, incremental language and library enhancements. The sixth edition was adopted by the General Assembly of June 2015.

The semantics of JavaScript was "gee, I don't know, whatever the Netscape interpreter did" which was later written down and standardized, much like C and C++. Some of these new additions are useful, but it would be better to make a new language that does it right than trying to add everything to something that sucks. They should have learned that from C++.

    But it's much worse than than because you need to invoke
this procedure call before entering the block.
Preallocating the storage doesn't help you. I'll almost
guarantee you that the answer to the question "what's
supposed to happen when I do <the thing above>?" used to be
"gee, I don't know, whatever the PDP-11 compiler did." Now
of course, they're trying to rationalize the language after
the fact. I wonder if some poor bastard has tried to do a
denotational semantics for C. It would probably amount to a
translation of the PDP-11 C compiler into lambda calculus.


 No.957813>>957836 >>957875 >>959254

i like its syntax. it can write some beautiful code. especially with JSON and objects.

and with webasm, its going to be the future.

I learned Python and PHP before Javascript, and consider JS the first *programming* language i learned.

I consider the others *scripting*


 No.957836

>>957813

You are one weird little gay frog.


 No.957859

>>957662

You're trying to shitpost too hard


 No.957875>>957879 >>957893

>>957672

>>957710

>>957784

>>957798

>>957813

How can anybody like a language that doesn't even have ints, and assumes everything is a double fp number?

>the JIT is so smart it knows when to make things ints, even if that's not in the standard

No. This is not acceptable.


 No.957876

>>957782

Fuck me daddy


 No.957879>>957899

>>957875

Ints are a low-level data type. JS is a high level scripting language, so such data types aren't really needed for most JS code.


 No.957886>>957891

>>957643 (OP)

As a language: it's pretty much just another shitty C clone, with warts that people call "features". I realize that if you program javascript like C, you are a retard who doesn't understand how to program, but that is beside the point. It's syntax and name were an attempt to steal some of the hype of Java (everyone involved has admitted it).

As a web technology, it's shit. Its duct-tape over a shitty system of content delivery (HTML), that throws all of that system's strengths away in favor of worse is better. The only good javascript could do is bring about a sea change away from x86 (in specific) and speculative execution (in general), but most people are too retarded for that to happen.


 No.957891>>957893

>>957886

> The only good javascript could do is bring about a sea change away from x86 (in specific) and speculative execution (in general),

How would JS accomplish that? How do bugs at the processor design level have anything to do with JS? FUCK YOU!


 No.957892>>957925

>>957662

>hurr lua is a meme

Take a guess why I think you're a kike.


 No.957893>>957901 >>960920

>>957875

BASIC started with only fp (not that anyone has ever liked BASIC; I like it, in comparison to other languages; I also used a dialect of BASIC where signed overflow trapped). It depends on your target audience. If your target programmers are scientific non-programmers: they aren't going to notice a lack of integers. They probably aren't going to notice a lack of bitwise operations (what do you mean the number is in "binary"?). But then you can't add that shit to the language, either. Do or do not.

>>957891

Everything that your browser stores is accessible to javascript. Does Chrome remember your internet banking credentials? I can write a malicious web page to recover it. Because code I control runs on your machine. There exist speculative execution caused side-channel attacks to read everything in the browser's memory (and for certain architectures, everything in memory).


 No.957899

>>957879

If there's one data type that a language should support it's integers.


 No.957901

>>957893

That is an issue for consumers. Big companies don't give a shit about that and will just issue patches to the JIT to fix shit.

The hardware bugs may lead to changes in processor design/architecture because of pissed of cloud providers like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, and the smaller ones.

If their virtual machines can't be properly isolated, or if the solution slows computations down significantly, then they lose money (at the very least due to increased power bill) and possibly customers, which is even worse for them.

But JS is just one of many languages used server side in the cloud, so it will not be key to such change in any way.


 No.957925>>960465 >>961749

>>957892

>doesn't like my pet memelang

>MUST BE DA JOOOOOOOOOZ

enjoy your language made by thirdworlders, retard.


 No.958003>>958466 >>961120

>>957643 (OP)

>JavaScript

I don't hate it, but I avoid it as much as I can. Full blown server-side applications in JavaScript is total insanity, and that's coming from someone who rolled his own scripting framework based on JDK Rhino before NodeJS was even a thing. I don't think TypeScript is enough to save JavaScript, because it inherits so much of its baggage, and in many ways, just introduces more moving parts that can fail (such as type models on top of existing JS libraries... what a nightmare for the incoming web programmers). I'm hopeful that WebAssembly will finally bury this monstrosity, and succeed where Applets, Flash, Silverlight, and GWT all failed.


 No.958402

>>957643 (OP)

Justification for a war on India.


 No.958413>>960516

>>957784

> The problem is the people

This, right here.

The internet is replete with examples of limited tools used in ways often considered impossible.

It's likewise abundantly clear how powerful tools cannot save people from their own stupidity.


 No.958466>>958635 >>959261 >>959305

>>958003

webassembly aka just run this blob, no thanks. I actually do audit js and allow it if it doesn't look nefarious, and lazily slap together userjs surrogates if it does. If you have ever audited anything actually useful (ie:not written in whatever the language of the day is), it would probably dwarf even the most bloated pos js. It's a hard pill to swallow, and most everything bad about JS is true, but at least you audit it with a minimum of sed, edit, and strings.


 No.958635>>960921

>>958466

For the document-viewing use case, JavaScript as a DOM manipulator is totally sufficient, and is easy enough to audit. I'm moreso referring to the browser as an application container, in which it should be given a proper instruction set. The browser is moving into space previously reserved for the operating system, and JavaScript is not up to the task.


 No.958645

>Site runs cleaner and are easier to read with JS disabled entirely than with it enabled.

>Site needs JS to even display.

>"We noticed you had Javascript disabled. Please enable it to get all the features of our site."


 No.958646

>Site runs cleaner and are easier to read with JS disabled entirely than with it enabled.

>Site needs JS to even display.

>"We noticed you had Javascript disabled. Please enable it to get all the features of our site."


 No.958657

>Site runs cleaner and are easier to read with JS disabled entirely than with it enabled.

>Site needs JS to even display.

>"We noticed you had Javascript disabled. Please enable it to get all the features of our site."


 No.959251>>959294

We use typescript for our entire backend stack, I can't even be moderate for the sake of professionalism. It's crap.


 No.959254

>>957813

The name is literally javascript you nigger


 No.959261

>>958466

> auditing JS

> sed, edit, and strings

he hasn't seen the javascript 'hello world' that consists of nothing but punctuation.


 No.959294>>959893

>>959251

You use fucking javascript for your backend stack. Typescript is just a code generator for javascript.


 No.959305

>>958466

>audit js

It's much easier to audit webassembly than minified and obfuscated shit. You faggots will like it, the default form is an S-expression.


 No.959893>>959919

>>959294

Typescript uses javascript as an intermediary representation. Yes, you're very smart for figuring this out, anon.


 No.959919

>>959893

No you don't get it. Why the fuck are you using javascript on the god damn backend?


 No.959987

>>957740

eat a dick

hellow world:

This site can’t be reached

try.elm-lang.org’s server IP address could not be found.

DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN


 No.960023>>961177

>>957710

>The language itself is honestly not too bad after ES6. It is pretty enjoyable to write.

Agreed.

>In the browser? Trash.

What would you have browsers run? What is the point of writing Javascript if not to be run in the browser?

>On the server? Dear god why?

Node has streams you can use for sockets, i/o, event emitters, and hooks you can use with C/C++, I think. It's easy to work with on the front end, well documented, and works as expected. Some libraries have built upon node's backend quite poorly. What exactly is the problem with a Javascript server?

>The community and ecosystem are terrible; installing any given package will probably pull in 150+ dependencies because the entire community.

It is not a monolithic community. The communities vary by framework and package.


 No.960127

>>957664

It was supposed to be a LISP but corporate jews stopped it.


 No.960465>>960657


 No.960516

>>958413

>>957784

Yes. JavaScript is adequate for its original intended use -- making it so web sites can pop up cute little alert boxes with YOUR_NAME in them. That anyone allowed it to escape the browser is a tragedy.


 No.960530

>>957673

R has turned out pretty nice.


 No.960657

>>960465

newfag


 No.960672>>960682

File (hide): 9e1420f6ef803ca⋯.png (347.03 KB, 533x767, 41:59, Javascript was a mistake.png) (h) (u)

I tried learning JS when I was 14. Everything was going well until I came across its OOP...


 No.960682

>>960672

JS is the transvestite of programming languages.


 No.960720

areallyinterestinglanguagethatcanbeusefulinwebprogrammingaslongasyouonlyneeditforclientsidepurposesandcanactuallyreadtheshitthatmostpeopletype.


 No.960920>>960923 >>961130

>>957893

>Everything that your browser stores is accessible to javascript.

That's a problem with the browser, or more specifically, the DOM API, not with Javascript itself. Around 90% of the problems people have with "Javascript' refer to the awful DOM API.


 No.960921

>>958635

>For the document-viewing use case, JavaScript as a DOM manipulator is totally sufficient, and is easy enough to audit.

Crockford had something called AdSafe to disable the most "dangerous" parts of JS to allow safe injection of code on any page, so that is (or at least was at the time) doable. Don't know if it's still possible nowdays.


 No.960923

>>960920

Okay. So how does Javascript interact with the document? What kind of API model do you propose to allow Javascript to access the different parts of the document?


 No.961120>>961179

>>958003

>what a nightmare for the incoming web programmers

I don't think web dev has to be awful, but any time I'm mildly curious about it, the tools upon tools upon tools associated with it inevitably have me pulling my hair out. Something invariably breaks along the way and suddenly I'm wasting my time managing some bullshit dependencies or cross compiler or some other over-engineered numale shit instead of writing any code.

Compare that to my intro to desktop programming, which was writing a single Scheme expression into a text file and then seeing it work instantly. I could get straight to the heart of the matter.

I get that webdev has to be more complex because browsers are complex, but the entire ecosystem that surrounds javascript is so bloated, buggy, and steered by cargo cults.


 No.961130

>>960920

> That's a problem with the browser, or more specifically, the DOM API

No, the processor leaks data. Spectre-class attacks allows a JavaScript script to access all data of the browser, whether or not it is accessible through the DOM.


 No.961177>>961611

>>960023

>>In the browser? Trash.

>What would you have browsers run?

Fucking nothing. Run that shit on your servers. Oh, bullshit NIH gui's and all that other bullshit isn't cost effective now? Fuck you. Suck my dick. Noscript for life.


 No.961179

>>961120

>webdev has to be more complex

>install apache

>make an index.html

>maybe even install a database

wow much complexity

webdev != javascript soycuckery


 No.961334

File (hide): 8fd49d893e37da8⋯.webm (1.42 MB, 640x480, 4:3, Java Plugins.webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]


 No.961596>>961621 >>961736

File (hide): d9129d86787cb7c⋯.png (47.94 KB, 953x764, 953:764, cuckflare.png) (h) (u)

Fucking hate it. Today I got this error for the first time. Guess I won't be going back to that joint. Not gonna use a fucking botnet javascript browser, fuck them. And cuckflare is shit also.

Now back to downloading early 80's games and whatever else doesn't need javashit and fuckflare. I"m fucking archiving all this because I fucking know the web is going to turn into even more shit and nothing will work anymore at all unless you have Windows Botnet Cianigger edition with Alphabet DRM browser. Fuck these tools and fuck all javascripts.


 No.961611

>>961177 (checked)

Fuckineh! Can't argue with those double dubs, either.


 No.961616

It's good and underused.


 No.961621

>>961596

>MobyGames getting cuckflare'd

Someone archive that entire website already.


 No.961733

>>957643 (OP)

Enable when needed don't give it full access, if government wants to see your browsing history they can always get that from your isp.


 No.961736>>961737

>>961596

> Please turn on this cancer

Naw, I'll press


 No.961737


 No.961749

>>957662

>>957925

Lua is used in almost every AAA videogame to this day

>>957784

This, you can write terrible code in any language, as well as overengineer and bloat everything to hell. The problem with current year internet certainly isn't that Javascript doesn't have an int datatype, or its retarded behavior on arrays, objects and strings in edge cases.

As for the moronic userbase, the same would be true for any other non-statically typed, high level, low barrier to entry language.




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