/tech/ - Technology★

>>921304 (OP)

Fuck off

Getting v8nned for some faggod townloading cp while routed through your node, that's what it's like.

this is what 5g is going to be, only your not going to have any control over it. say goodbye to buying your own internet, instead your only option will be to pay to use a shared node. instead of 100mb/s dedicated right to you, your going to pay twice as much and get get a 100mb/s line shared with 50 nodes.

>>921588

hooray for the future!

>>921588

Every single time there's a new standard, retards like you claim it's the globalist takeover and they're going to charge you double. I pay less for unlimited internet than I did for 5G p/m only a few years ago.

>>921588

You really think that your wired connection is not shared among few dozens of other people? Have you ever heard about QoS and overselling?

>>921591

To be honest, literal botnet mandatory femtocells in every room for "good signal reception", pieces of hardware you don't actually own is not something to be eager about. I bet you're also ok with your ISP-issued router.

>>921597

>extrapolating

Brainlet alert.

I run a librecmc router.

>>921597

i'm more pissed off about the trend of shared internet service being forced in apartments.

it's becomming more and more common place that that the apartment building signs an agreement with the ISP, and then if you want internet, you have to pay $30-50/mo to get access to the apartment wifi. No option to get your own internet is available.

This happens more in big cities obviously, but it's in the interest of the ISP to give a single 100mbit line to the apartment complex, charge them $3000/mo, and let the apartment charge the customers instead of charging individually for $30-50 and having to give everyone a 100mbit line. The kikes will do this even after you move in to and you wont' be able to get out of your lease over it.

>>921612

and yes if you want a business line and the ISP knows damn well 50 people are going to be using it it does cost $3000/mo. Hotels get fucked with this as well.

>>921563

You just route everything over tor and then you don't have to worry.

>>921563

Give me one (1) article of someone using a network of that kind getting v& without downloading or uploading 100% of a file with illegal shit directly.

In networks like Freenet and Perfect Dark, you won't seed 100% of something if you didn't choose to download it yourself.

>>921612

This is horrible indeed. How can it be stopped?

>>921612

>give a single 100mbit line to the apartment complex

This is the most cancerous shit I've ever heard, fuck.

>>921338

>tells OP to fuck off

>doesn't sage

>>921304 (OP)

To not be an offsubject faggot, no. My area is far too sparsely populated to support a mesh network. The only system I can imagine working would be to drill into the bedrock and use high-amplitude, low-frequency audio to transmit a signal.

People don't know shit about computers in my part of the city. I'd need some serious range and a gun to shoot down green-glowing FCC agents trying to dismantle my hardware.

I'd love to be a part of one but you can't be a network with a single peer.

>>921338

I concur. Mesh networking is pushed by Goolag. OP can go die

>>922815

>give a single 100mbit line to the apartment complex

>This is the most cancerous shit I've ever heard, fuck.

It's good enough for the FaceBook niggers. That is the problem

>>923014

It's probobly not. Facebook niggers also watch youtube and netflix, streaming 1080p takes between 18 and 25Mbps. 4-5 people streaming and you're tubes are clogged. Even 720p would only allow maybe 8-9 people to stream, and that is assuming you are actually getting the full 100Mbps, which you never are.

>>923023

This is true, in fact 86% of web traffic was purely going to Netflix on the back-haul link when i worked for an ISP.

But the underlying problem still exists, FaceBook Niggers are complacent. They will not do shit about it if it's not stupid easy.

>>923033

Yes there's a little bit of quality loss with vp9, but that is what HEVC is for since there is no noticeable quality loss with it, and most normies only want the word behind 4k and aren't so autistic about the little details. For those that are there can be a "high quality but slower" option.

>>923033

>>923034

then you need hardware decoding for HEVC or the normies will complain

>>921714

>How can it be stopped?

Perform denial of service attacks on the network, regularly changing your MAC address and reconnecting so they can't ban you easily.

>>921714

Don't live in those places.

>>923243

If you are the owner of the whole apartment complex, then good for you. If you don't own the apartment, you have no right to dictate what they allow into the place. You're supposed to take your wallet and move it some place that does what you need.

>>921563

you'd likely be v& for violating FCC consumer radio limitations and providing some service that violates ISP national security.

decentralized networks aren't immune to cp but so are honeypots. the point is to restrict protocols for each type of files

>one for text and markup which comply to some form of standard and apply file size limitations

>another strictly for data which is optional.

you can restrict protocols so you won't accidentally shit the net

>though you won't catch obfuscators and steganofags

>>921588

hoping 5g gets a terrible flaw causing another free access

>>921612

(((net neutrality)))

>>922860

>I'm surrounded by niggers

move, faggot

>>923365

>you'd likely be v& for violating FCC consumer radio limitations

We're talking about current shit, not guessing what future laws may do. There's a reason why the 2.4GHz space is used by shittons of wireless devices out there: anyone can use it.

Also >>921696

>>923373

Can I stay at your place?

>>923476

Why? You're capable of killing government agents with the full force of the government behind them but you're not capable of finding your own place? Are you autistic?

>>923478

What if I don't want to live alone?

>>923481

Then you have autism.

>>923482

Don't autistic people prefer being alone? You seem to want that too. Hmm

>>923230

>then you need hardware decoding for HEVC or the normies will complain

No you don't and they won't complain and here is why. Normies have what are essentially the pocket supercomputers of yesterday in their pockets. If you are, as a normalfag, streaming 4k video over 4g/LTE, then the proccessor doing the computation in CPU and not gpu is going to take much less power then the neccessary uptime for the cellular modem to transfer all 196MB of that data. But if it were in HEVC you wouldn't need all that cellular uptime to use the battery to transfer data.

Now for people with home entertainment systems they too are not going to complain about no hardware decoding, why you ask? Because their machines are plenty more then fast enough to decode in software without major effiency loss. Sure using MP4 is going to save them battery life if they watch a smaller resolution video or a video that is not streamed. But for normalfags streaming the battery savings, and thereby effieceny nuts among them, are going to not complain because of reduced wifi/cellular uptime and loading which is much more grevious to them then a POSSIBLE lack of hardware decoding, of which most normalfags don't even understand the difference between software and hardware decoding.

>>923230

YouTube feeds VP9 to everyone, whether they have hardware decoding or not. Why would normies complain about HEVC on Netflix?

No why should I be?

>>923241

Some people don't have a choice

>>923494

Because normalfags wouldn't know what HEVC even is

>>923497

Too fucking bad! I don't have the choice to own a luxury cruiser and you don't see me sabotaging other people's cruisers out of jealousy. You go get a job somewhere else, go live somewhere else, or you suck it up.

>>921304 (OP)

The dream is fucking dead bro, just give up. Look at all the replies basically admitting what I said!

>>923491

>>923494

oh, i thought software HEVC decoding was more intensive and thus causes stuttering and worse battery life than whatever silly MPEG standard is used today

I still like the idea of mesh networking, but

>communication on bare radio waves

No, I don't want that.

UTP is cool, Coax is decent, Li-fi is cool vaporware, Fibre is effectively vaporware, leaving us with wireless radio based protocols. But they're so insecure.

>>923506

>sabotaging other people's cruisers

Are you an ISP shill? Who is he sabotaging, the ISP fags jewing an entire building?

Nah not part of any though there are Freifunker here.

But what they mostly do just amounts to a gateway to the internet which IMO kinda goes against the appeal of a mesh network.

We more or less need Freenet but on a meshnet and not fucking dead to use the pros of a mesh net.

>>922850

Optical links can go pretty far, so long as you have good visibility. Here's one you can build yourself: http://ronja.twibright.com/

I don't see much discussion about CJDNS around here, I love the project and would be super happy to hear from other people who work with it. I'm not a fan of the node.js dependency but the tech seems super promising for a large scale meshnet.

>>926332

Last time I checked it was pure C++. What do they need node.js for? Also CJDNS does have its issues (either all participating nodes need to run CJDNS or you need NAT66 fuckery; long path lengths) that are protocol inherent.

>>926387

Seems like they introduced nodejs in late 2013 for some optional (?) administration tools.

Just had a glance at their code. Seen better, seen worse. I wouldn't trust it with anything critical.

>>921612

I'm about convinced my ISP shares a single 100mbit line with the whole county at this point.

>>926387

>>926402

Yeah I guess it's a bit of a set back that all nodes need to be running CJDNS but I still quite like the idea of an IPv6 native, encrypted by default, easy to deploy mesh network. I also am really not a big fan of how it handles IPv4 for something large scale but there's definitely a few workarounds.

The test networks I've made with VMs were pretty nice, quick to set up and easy to learn. Lately I have been trying to branch into getting it on openWRT so I can build a mini physical test network to teach a few people to set up nodes for me and distribute them to make a local meshnet, the end goal of my plan is much bigger but I gotta start small and test thoroughly.

I guess I have more reading to do as I thought it was more dependent on nodejs, that's good news though since that should help cut the size down drastically for me to get it running on my test hardware.

I haven't dug into other mesh protocols yet as cjdns seems to be exactly what I want to implement and enables me to have easy control over who/what I allow to join my mesh, why wouldn't you trust it for something critical? Just since it's new and still in need of testing or are there bigger flaws i'm not seeing?

>>926941

>why wouldn't you trust it for something critical? Just since it's new and still in need of testing or are there bigger flaws i'm not seeing?

- As I said, not the cleanest code (but not bad either). Look at dht/Address.c, Address_fromString.

- Mostly written by one autist who can't write proper commit messages

- Lack of test coverage

- Lack of detailed documentation

I know, I know. Maybe I'm judging too harshly. But I'd expect more of software that does crypto and that is exposed to the internet. I wouldn't call it new either, it's been around for a few years now.

>>921304 (OP)

>ITT fags who don't know shit about networking aside from buzzwords

If given a couple of hours, i could make a basic mesh network using a few microcontrollers and maybe using IR LED, or 433MHz links or 2.4GHz links as the physical layer

The hard thing about mesh network isn't making it, its spreading it wide enough to be relevant

>>926996

You're not being harsh, those are legitimate reasons to be wary of something.

Documentation is actually something i'm hoping to work on as I get further in my project. And the only reason I call it new because its largely untested and doesn't have many people working on it yet. I fully believe that working on getting more people to adopt it and use it will get the attention of more competent developers and they can help clean it up.

>>927009

>>ITT fags who don't know shit about networking aside from buzzwords

>If given a couple of hours, i could make a basic mesh network using a few microcontrollers and maybe using IR LED, or 433MHz links or 2.4GHz links as the physical layer

>The hard thing about mesh network isn't making it, its spreading it wide enough to be relevant

Proceeds to only use buzzwords and states they can do something that is stupid easy. You're not going to spread a mesh wide enough using IR LEDs, 433MHz, or 2.4GHz kiddo.

>>927009

Your physical layer is useless without routing. Show me a routing protocol that is

- completely decentral

- scalable to many millions of nodes

- resilient against attacks

If you know shit about networking besides buzzwords, you can answer this.

>>926387

>What do they need node.js for?

last I checked it was what they use instead of a Makefile

>>927208

cjdns

>>927684

doesn't scale well

>>921597

it's called contention ratio

>>927889

and that's a good thing

>>927208

How is anyone even supposed to test #2? And to test #3 they'd need to test #2 first.

>>927952

>#2

Calculate and/or simulate it.

>>927688

How does it not scale well? It has a huge address space and depending on the way you build your mesh, it can easily scale well.

>>923243

>lol just run away xddd

You wouldn't even have the need for anime if you didn't live in a shithole.

>>923365

Like causing serious health problems and degrading our body's ability to function because of the exposure to 5g radiation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj9n8fz4TwY

>>921563

spbp

>>921563

>choosing to be an unencrypted gateway to the clearnet

SHIGGY DIGGY DOO

>>928556

>Jeff Rense

What's next, taking Terry Davis seriously?

If we are talking about wireless, why aren't we taking the 5GHz band seriously? It's legal, underused, supported by a lot of hardware, are there some silly regulations against its use outdoors?

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sforshee/wireless-regdb.git/tree/db.txt

I don't see too much of "NO-OUTDOORS" rules at 5GHz.

I myself thought about finding some optimal hardware, equipping it with OpenWRT and some software and market it as an "alternative city network with no flat rates". Has potential?

>>929251

At the powers available for unlicensed use, it has a very short distance.

>>929256

Well, looking at the US bands, there is one band that is allowed 30 dBm (apparently the other ones are also allowed 30 dBm just in master mode). Is it an inherent problem of 5GHz compared to 2.4GHz that shortens the distance (I'm not too well versed with radio)? From what I know, the relative obscurity of 5GHz (compared to the abused 2.4GHz) should make up for that issue.

>country US: DFS-FCC

> (2402 - 2472 @ 40), (30dBm)

> # 5.15 ~ 5.25 GHz: 30 dBm for master mode, 23 dBm for clients

> (5170 - 5250 @ 80), (23dBm), AUTO-BW

> (5250 - 5330 @ 80), (23dBm), DFS, AUTO-BW

> (5490 - 5730 @ 160), (23dBm), DFS

> (5735 - 5835 @ 80), (30dBm)

< 60GHz

> (57240 - 63720 @ 2160), (40dBm)

This document also notes, that most of the European countries allow for at most of 27dBm on 5GHz.

>>929267

>is it an inherent problem of 5GHz compared to 2.4GHz that shortens the distance (I'm not too well versed with radio)?

Yes. 5GHz doesn't penetrate matter very well, think about FM or AM radio that goes through walls. 2.4GHz is actually quite poor at this too, it can't go through water containing matter like trees or animals. The atmosphere in this case actually diffuses the radio signals and makes them weak very quickly.

There are companies that make wireless links using 5GHz bands, but they require a license, use a huge amount of power, and are designed with a directional antenna.

Typically, the lower the frenquency the longer the range. It still depends on how much power someone is dumping through the transmitter though.

>>929271

>2.4GHz is actually quite poor at this too, it can't go through water containing matter like trees or animals.

Just to clarify this, 2.4 GHz is not some magic resonant frequency or something that's particularly well suited for heating water.. 2.4 GHz is absorbed by water just as well as 2.2 or 2.6 GHz.

>>929271

Thank you for info anon. I'm reading more on the issue of mesh networking and I found out, that there's a large movement in Germany (started about 2004) regarding such networks which produced B.A.T.M.A.N. as a protocol to solve the routing issue. Parts of that are already part of the upstream Linux kernel. I think B.A.T.M.A.N. is more of a toolbox to create local mesh networks and cjdns is a working network, mostly overlayed over IPv4.

Here it's shown how such localmeshes work in practice: https://freifunk.net/en/how-to-join/find-your-nearest-community/ [1]

Those networks mostly use aforementioned batman-adv, some use 802.11s and there are sometimes also used Babel, OLSR and OLSRv2 solutions (wikipedia describes B.A.T.M.A.N. as a replacement of OLSR).

These people mostly use a firmware called "gluon", which is OpenWRT based:

https://github.com/freifunk-gluon/gluon

http://gluon.readthedocs.org/

I found a company creating at least custom hardware solutions:

https://www.openmesh.com/

I wonder about possible uses of such networks. We could explore the [1] link, because there are a lot of communities. One possibility that comes into mind is filesharing due to a large attack on filesharing in the internet (man, I thought at least abandonware could become free to share one day, but even that poses monetary incentive for some people...) and such a network is definitely immune from ISP-level surveillance. I'm quite sure it could be also used for local services, like local social networks. I don't see too many existing software packages though, so I kinda assume it's mostly used just as the internet access. Well, if I find anything else on that matter, I will certainly share.

Of course, the main problem is the network effect. But I'm sure there's a lot to learn from Germans on all those matters for anyone interested.

>>929296

>I think B.A.T.M.A.N. is more of a toolbox to create local mesh networks and cjdns is a working network

cjdns is also a toolbox to create mesh networks, which may or may not be local

Hyperboria is the main network that uses cjdns.

>>929298

Ok, looking more at how such a network is organized. How to join a network (in English):

https://wiki.freifunk.net/Berlin:Firmware:En:Howto

A much more complete page about how such a network is constructed:

https://wiki.freifunk.net/Berlin:Firmware (German)

http://archive.is/sBoZF (English, Google-translated, quite readable)

Berlin is quite a complicated example, apparently B.A.T.M.A.N. doesn't scale well to such a big network and Berlin still has a lot of old technology in use. Yet it works. So it's possible to take over the networking from big companies.

Oh, by the way, regarding the networks, Berlin network runs mostly on 2.4GHz channel 13 (channels 12 and 13 are typically legal around the world, but not in the US and they are underused, channel 14 is legal basically only in Japan).

>>929304

Isn't channel 13 Bluetooth? It looks interesting. I always wondered what B.A.T.M.A.N. was anyways when configuring kernel. This might work for small groups of people networking together, but they would have to be sure to be in close range with each other or have no objects in the line of sight. Without a tall tower and a +30 dB parabolic antenna, the ranges for 2.4GHz are poor when compared to a band like 900 MHz. That I could see extending range to several km with the right equipment setup.

>>923531

>My original idea was to have an enclosed mesh network, with absolutely no access to outside 'internet' - almost like a network, but be able to do everything we can on regular clear-net on this closed off network - ie. access a web-page that was created on someone's personal computer, download files (providing that they are put in the appropriate 'shared directory), send p.m's, etc...It would be totally original content - the content on the network/intra-net

>Is anyone following my derailed train of thought?

I'm guessing it's already been done/tried. I2P is like that, except it's an overlay, not a meshnet, but it would be reasonable to assume people have done the same. Is that what a piratebox is?

I think there's a 4chan thread up now of people doing what you are talking about, but there isn't good node density for obvious reasons.

>>929296

>>929298

>>929304

>>929346

Note that B.A.T.M.A.N. creates L2 networks. Do you know what happens when large L2 networks grow large, especially when wireless? In Aachen, one of Freifunk's largest communities with a couple of thousand users, they're facing massive scaling issues - and that's with centralized management of the network and heavy filtering of any broadcast traffic. You won't be able to create a fully decentralized large scale network with B.A.T.M.A.N.

>>929746

Care to explain why? If I understood their page correctly it is supposed to also store the routing informaion decentralized.

>>930000

Oh wait, I didn't know there's an older version that does routing instead of switching. Their page says development hasn't continued in years. I don't know if it is any good and how well it scales.

>>929746

Also note that Freifunk for most parts isn't meshed because the wifi routers are too far away from each other. Most routers connect to each other via a central VPN server via DSL.

>>930029

What is the most successful, decentralised mesh network that would continue to work if ISPs died?

I think Cuba's SNET may be the biggest. Do Freifunk or guifi.net qualify?

>>930027

>heir page says development hasn't continued in years

Huh? I checked out their page and it says https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki

they have a release this year so it looks active to me.

>>930073

I doubt Freifunk qualify, they mainly seem to focus on providing free internet access

>>930073

>>930294

>I doubt Freifunk qualify, they mainly seem to focus on providing free internet access

Today that's their main focus, but they started out with the intention to create resilient, alternative infrastructure. Some still wish to, but this isn't something that's easily done by putting some wifi routers up onto trees.

What people (especially here in this thread!) need to realize is that you can't just do this by stapling together code that someone else has already written. If it was that easy, someone else would have done it long, long ago. There are thousands of people who would. But the way to decentralization is harsh and full of traps and failure. The first step on this way is to realize that you can't just walk on other peoples' shoulders. You have to get your own feet and hands dirty, and many before you failed. You have to write code that nobody has written before. You have to create algorithms that might only exist on some phd thesis right now, if at all. Many bright people already tried.

The worst thing you can do is to try to meme for support and hope someone else will do it.

>>930302

No that's all pretty false, you do stand on the shoulders of other people and a lot of other projects and the parts that are of interest to you should serve you as guidance, be it in raw code form or simply for making pitfalls obvious.

Not only is it simply more realistic that you will be able to wrap existing code or outright programms in terms of motivation and skill but it will also enable you to isolate errors better, not leaving you alone as when something crashes and burns.

>>930332

>you do stand on the shoulders of other people and a lot of other projects and the parts that are of interest to you should serve you as guidance

I'm not calling for reinventing the wheel. Of course we all stand on the shoulders of giants, but we can't take that for granted. We can only get up so high relying on previous work. At some point we (that includes YOU) have to get our hands dirty and do things ourself. Merely looking up ready-made and pre-packaged software on the internet and clicking setup.exe is the lowest form of advancing technology actually, it's right above "memeing" for support

/tech/, learn how networks work, learn to actually program not some meme language like Lisp or Visual Basic and write the first 10000 Lines.

>>929346

Channel 13 bluetooth ?

Nyet, it overlaps with wifi, and uses another encoding.

Actually the wifi channels are not all the same according to the different countries.

>>930294

To talk about freifunk's main objectives :

They actively place wifi routers in migrant asylums.

It became more another commie / immigration club than an actually a hackers group.

To talk about the tech, they do have local meshing and pass the internet access over that.

They are (or were) forced by the German law to tunnel all network connections to a foreign IP to avoid legal trouble. (Illegal downloads are a major concern, especially since the connection is open for EVERYBODY with a wifi device)

Also due to that being a L2 network they have of course insane mac table, and had to divide the network to avoid major problems with that.

Quite ironic to build network to have to split itself up to avoid major conflict caused by the building of the network

>>930365

>It became more another commie / immigration club than an actually a hackers group.

Most hackers in germany are commies.

>They actively place wifi routers in migrant asylums.

Not only because they're commies but also because the hardware and uplink in the asylum is paid for it by the local government, so it doesn't cost them a penny.

>to a foreign IP to avoid legal trouble.

What do you mean "foreign"? Freifunk's largest community, Freifunk Rheinland has their own AS (49009) which they use to run their VPN exit nodes inside Germany. AFAIK they officially operate as an ISP so they're not legally responsible for their users.

>>921696

0.1% of 1000 frames of CP is still going to get you v&

>>929271

So... if I make my home a rain forest with a giant humidifier and tropical plants everywhere, with water sealed walls, ceiling, floor... and some rotating fans, I'll be in a signal vacuum? I'll throw in some wildlife too.

>>930576

Why do you think (((they))) are destroying the rainforests? Because they are not botnet enough.

>>930402

You need the entire file to decrypt it you massive faggot

>>930576

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airMAX-General-Discussion/how-would-one-go-through-trees/td-p/321466

this suggests that 2.4 GHz can through many trees, but the signal won't be near the bandwidth as expected.

There have been tests conducted using 2.4GHz underwater, but transmission only worked in shallow, fresh water tests.

>>930576

Pretty sure you can build a faraday cage and be done with it

>>921612

We need to start forming tenants unions to stop bullshit like this.

>>931895

stop paying your bills, and use that money to make repairs on the apartment, and you can stay there forever under squater's rights

>>931931

Squatters only have rights when it's clear that the property has been abandoned for a hefty length of time. The manager of the apartment complex is going to know if a particular unit is rented or not because that's their job. It's grossly unlikely that a manager is going to leave a single unit abandoned for the length of time required for a squatter to gain rights to it.

>>931934

You're right anon. I forgot about that abandonment requirement.

>>931935

You forgot the only real requirement?

>>931951

Listen, you think throwing your trash away makes it okay for someone to rumage through your dumpster? It's abandoned at that point.

>>922860

>I'd love to be a part of one but you can't be a network with a single peer.

Yup, that's me too

Question, how do we handle the massive gaps between large cities? Especially in America, you can have a hundred miles between a town. Buried fiber, wireless nodes?

>>932028

>Question, how do we handle the massive gaps between large cities?

We don't.

>Especially in America, you can have a hundred miles between a town. Buried fiber, wireless nodes?

Buried fiber is anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000 per mile just for the cable and labor. That's not counting equipment, permits, paying for right-of-way/easements, etc. Do you have $2,000,000+ to run a hundred miles of fiber?

>>927077

>>927208

>buzzwords

God damn, i can actually make shit, and unlike you faggots i don't just throw arguments around and I am the one throwing buzzwords around?

Also WiFi, Bluetooth are 2.4GHz, LoRa is 433 MHz. I see them around a lot, don't you? What makes you think you can't make a mesh network out of these? Fuck, you could make a mesh network out of a string cup phones, speakers, and microphones if you were so inclined

>>932041

With labor and all the equipment it is about 50k in rural areas and over a 100k in urban. My point I guess is that mesh networks in that case are really only viable in urban areas, not long distance. So you will always have to depend on some ISP to foot the bill for such a large investment.

>>932041

A fucked up country cut off from the internet could use the connections for what used to be a big ISP to run a mesh network.

>>926064

>rain happens

>no Internet

>>932069

>you could make a mesh network out of a string cup phones, speakers, and microphones if you were so inclined

Sure, but you still missed the point of this thread.

I have a brainlet question regarding meshnetworks

How is IP assigned in a mesh network? Does it still use a DHCP server or is there another way it's done?

>>932786

Some mesh networks use DHCP, some don't rely on TCP/IP at all, the ones overlayed over Internet use TCP/IP for finding peers and then their own routing on top.

>>932786

Depends on the protocol you use, I know in CJDNS you get your IPv6 address derived from your public key, if you want IPv4 support you need to set it up manually as far as I can tell. There may be a way to set up IPv4 DHCP for it but I haven't played around with the protocol enough yet.

>>932204

Rain is actually not much of an issue for FSOs, your biggest issue comes from fog.

>>932069

Get off my board with ur shit b8

>>932142

Urban mesh networks are a great testing ground the real success one will see with grassroots mesh networks will likely be rural areas who have to deal with awful ISPs and service. I doubt it would be hard to set up some large meshes in rural areas and the people living there would likely be 100% on board with building their own network.

>>933038

>Some mesh networks use DHCP

Which ones? And how many devices do they support? How do they stop rogue DHCP servers? How do they prevent anyone from taking another user's IP addresses?

>>933069

>CJDNS

>IPv4

You can't have IPv4 on CJDNS.

>>933103

You're complaining about wired network throttling but you don't think about wireless mesh network latency? Are you all right?

>>933087

Yes you can, you can configure that on a gateway node for clearnet access over IPv4. I've done it while testing the protocol.

>>933140

Lol good point didnt really consider that cause wifi has got so good it's nearly wired in terms of latency I get like 20-40 ping in games. And this ham setup is probably way worse but it's not only the throttling but the filter I wanna put money on that they will eventually implement.

>>933103

That only applies to HAM radio dummy.

>>933442

I know but WHY does it apply to ham radio?

>>933470

because the FCC said so

>>921714

>How can it be stopped?

Don't pay for it. Convince everyone else in the building how shit it is. Landlord can't make money from it and won't pay the ISP. ISP will be forced to go back to individual customers. The problem is nobody will ever do this. I never understood why people will pay for total shit and continue to pay for it.

>>933470

Because HAM radio, like a mesh network with non-compromised routers, is not automagically collected at choke points for ISP's LV1 datacenters and sent to the CIA/NSA/amazon/jewgle. That's why encrypted HAM is illegal, that's why MESH is shilled against so much.

>>929296

>could be also used for local services, like local social networks. I don't see too many existing software packages though

GNUsocial or its fork masterdon would work for that. If someone wants a locally accessable website use GNUnet. If you need to encrypt it all use a TOR OBFS bridge locally and only locally.

>>933438

Wireless is alright for small meshes but once you get large you need a cable to carry stuff across cities. Fuck off all you shills with your bogus prices for such. 1000 feet of fiber optic for city to city connections is 160$ at a expensive place like amazon https://archive.fo/SOBhh . Let's take two example cities, such as from little rock arkansas to perryville arkansas in the USA.

It would cost in a worst case scenario of you following the road for 44 miles a total of 7,040$ USD before the routers which would cost 300$ max and before the shovels that cost 15$ per person to dig it. In rural areas where they can tell the government to fuck off or do it in secret this is extremely cheap. Especially if you have your local government's backing to go from city to city. Mesh in the city, fiber to everywhere else. With a internet cafe for those who are too far from the city for the mesh.

Imagine that cost, the total population of little rock and perryville combined is 195,000 but let's give you a more accurate take for small towns. Say the population of perryville, 1,460, payed for the fiber and the routers and the shovels for ten men to dig it. It would cost each person of perryville 5 dollars to pay for the line and then use their existing routers for a meshnet and this is before labour costs. The labour costs can be offset by having prisoners/kids/volunteers dig it out.

Paying 30-200 dollars a month for internet is a (((government))) enforced monopoly meant to scam people from paying to place the infrastructure and to use the botner tier one providers who save everything and send it to the NSA. Get the meshnet for 5$'s per person in equipment costs and then you only have to pay for electricity. If you don't want to pay for electricity then look into solar/local coal/nuclear.

This is ignoring government enforced monopolies and oppresssion of not being able to just lay the wire down between cities.

>but what about private property anon

Offer them the opprotunity to never pay for their internet again and you will get them onboard unless it is a giga kike or NSA/CIA/amazon/jewgle slave who's money depends on your enslavement to their botnet internet.

>>933748

Hey retard 1000 feet does not equal a mile. Your calculations actually come out to be 37,171$ for 44 miles of cable. Now granted that is if you go along the road and before shovels and the two routers you need at the endpoints. Still, twenty three dollars a person for a small city to never pay for internet again is a great deal.

>>933748

At least someones acknowledging the oppressive shitfucks I might just start a gofundme to do this sort of thing in my Major city. I just worry about infastructure so much and future proofing it. But just getting down fiber would be a huge leap the end points don't have to be so sophisticated but could be upgraded and stuff over time and with it community backed and open source I feel like it'll become a huge glorious piece of tech. I should more worried with the power hungry jizz drinkers shooting me down though.

>>933771

>future proofing

For every 20,000 people you need a 1000MB line if they all used the internet at once to access non-local content. That's 600KB a person, for a city using no local content and no meshnet. They all could stream 20,000 seperate videos at 720P and have no congestion problems with vp9/webm. Granted that situation is incredibly unlikely as people have jobs or go outside or something. Then there's adding the meshnet to the equation which kills all the local goybook/popular video streaming shit if using GNUsocial and peertube/bitchute. Unless you are browsing an image board, websites take like 5-15KB to load before the three 200KB in images and javascript disabled so that is negligible at best.

So it depends on the city, take perryville for example. One line of fiber would be absolute overkill for them. But for little rock if you wanted to anticipate congestion you would need 3-7 lines in place, granted this is going to go through multiple cities as they would be helping foot the bill to expand outward so by the time little rock connects to the 11 cities surronding them it should be fine. Or take perryville and connect it to three different cities, you already solved any congestion issues they might have.

It's just (((they))) don't want people to do stuff like this so (((they))) pass laws/permission/liscenses that require you never actually improve america. Such as the banks monopolizing land by buying all the land and artificially keeping prices high via monpoly of federal reserve fiat notes.

Until the federal reserve is eliminated or replaced this is all a pipe dream to do without legal/lawful reprocussions in america. Europe is a nightmare and china doesn't need this shit. Russia could probably start doing stuff like this though.

>>933169

You can't access 'clearnet' over cjdns either.

>>933804

I've built CJDNS networks with IPv4 addresses and clearnet access, how to build that is in their documentation. I highly suggest building a few VMs as CJDNS nodes with no network access besides through the CJDNS tuns to test this for yourself if you don't believe me. If you'd like I can maybe find the time to do it from scratch tomorrow and document the process here. It's fairly simple and should be easy to set up.

>>933779

Your post gives me some fun ideas! Maybe build a mesh with high traffic sites like NormieBook and the likes hosted via IPFS on storage servers at key points on a network to reduce load on gateways to the normal internet. I'd love to test this out at some point and build on this!

Personal note: anyone down to build a publich 8ch meshnet/overlay network for testing various shit?? I can get some nodes up and maybe some other stuff eventually.

>>933821

>mesh imageboard

Zeronet is what you are looking for. It is used with TOR in china to have imageboards there. Too bad most linux package managers don't have a package for it.

>Maybe build a mesh with high traffic sites like NormieBook and the likes hosted via IPFS on storage servers at key points on a network to reduce load on gateways to the normal internet

That is called a CDN except you would be distributing the CDN across the normalfag's computers instead. It would be better if the normalfags just used GNUsocial as it it less botnet, more private unless someone is aware of the instance such as freinds/family, and less bandwidth from less botnet.

Although I see what you are saying, even if you don't have the website's permission you can cache data via IPFS and automagically share it via a browser plugin for IPFS data if it is unencrypted. For example all the normalfags are going to watch the superbowl and load the superbowl channel on goybook and jewtube. If you had them install IPFS' browser plugin and cached all the images and videos via a script as IPFS hashes for the facebook and youtube pages they would load going to the superbowl you could distribute such a thing over IPFS automatically. The only problem with that is how to add the IPFS hashes in place of the image and video URL on the HTTP page while they use SSL/https. I guess the website owner would have to be in on such a thing too as they could make a cookie or URL bar marker to replace all image/video URL's on the website with IPFS hashes that way you don't have to use javascript to load any of it. But at that point you might as well combine GNUsocial with IPFS for load distribution as you actually control the social media instance and it can be encrypted unlike the above method. Although a patch to GNUsocial that toggles IPFS by default could be submitted upstream to account for normalfag behavior.

>>933779

>Until the federal reserve is eliminated or replaced

You don't need to do either. http://teamlaw.net/Mythology-CorpUS.htm#FRNs=Money

>>929303

>cjdns is also a toolbox to create mesh networks

No it's not. It's more of a decentralized multi user VPN. It has nothing to do with mesh networking, but it's really great for building a decentralized multi user VPN on top of an actual mesh network. Thought I2P does this automatically without any setup so I think that's better.

There's a thread on halfchan about this.

https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/66427344/gtg-gternet-general#p66434343

>>933850

Dear lord, please tell me you are lying. If Chinese are using something as insecure as Zeronet then they are all fucked as soon as Chinese police decide to download a copy of zeronet for themselves.

Just use IPFS for this shit.

>>933821

Huh. Yeah, so apparently you can: https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/tree/master/tunnel

No surprise, you can use a communication network to encapsulate arbitrary data. The only thing that I didn't expect is that cjdns ships a tunneling mechanism on top of cjdns out of the box. It's no different than openvpn or wireguard on top of cjdns.

>>933962

Kys, stormfag.

>>>/pol/

>>933969

>tripfag using dated memes

regardless of what boards you associate with you need to kill yourself

>>933850

I'm not talking about a distributed imageboard. I'm talking about building a meshnet/overlay network for the community here where we host various services sites and the likes.

As for the IPFS/GNUsocial, while that would be nice, that's simply not how the internet is used currently. A way to cache normie sites and shit locally would be the best possible way to go but as you brought up, it'll be difficult to cache/redirect everyone to the cached version of the site. That'd have to be done for a mass adopted mesh, a smaller mesh for a niche community could easily support it as everyone would be happy to use the alternatives to normie sites.

>>933895

It builds a mesh network via decentralized VPN connections, it has everything to do with building a mesh network... secure end to end communications for intra-mesh connections as well as "mesh" connections over internet. IMO it's the ideal mesh solution.

>>933940

Yep, it's pretty neat and allows for some really interesting things to be accomplished but would definitely require nodes to have decent firewalls in order to prevent a ton of security/privacy issues. I'm planning on building an overlay network using CJDNs to collaborate with some friends to work on projects together.

So all in favor of an overlay/mesh net for hosting nonsense for our own entertainment say Aye, those opposed gtfo.

>>933903

You do realise that even with an A.I that using TOR OBFS bridges with zeronet they go virtually pun intended undetected and are unstoppable via the mesh part? There's too many bugman to accuse every https looking connection as a zeronet instance as OBFS makes everything look like https. Combine that with using tor and unless you own all the TOR relays in the world its impossible to track them automatically. You would have to do it manually for every single last 3 billion or so bugmen.

>>934163

Website could start using IPFS as a adopted standard as to reduce the bandwidth usage/costs of their infrastructure. Just leave it as a cookie or a URL option for the autists who want it. Maybe it could be widely adopted if jewgle started shilling it to reduce their costs and run at a profit thereof.

>A way to cache normie sites and shit locally would be the best possible way to go

Well it's not caching the content that is difficult, just use a script for that. It is replacing the URLs for webpage content with IPFS hashes and having normalfags install the browser addon to load the hashes that is difficult. Even if let's say jewgle started supporting IPFS, you would still have to get normalfags to use IPFS or the browser addon. Although if jewgle size corps were to actually do this (((they))) could force (((modern))) browsers like firefox and chrome to natively support IPFS hash loading.

Although with how insecure (((modern))) browsers are you could write a exploit that installs IPFS and MITM's their ssl connection to use IPFS hashes to major sites like goybook since normalfags already have no privacy nor security on those websites anyways.

>>934243

>Website could start using IPFS as a adopted standard as to reduce the bandwidth usage/costs of their infrastructure.

How does IPFS's latency compare to cloudflare's free service's latency?

>>934275

I am not talking about for the users you moron. I am talking about the ISP's or websites themselves. Let's say you are jewgle and running jewtube. If you forced users to adopt IPFS you wouldn't need to keep adding CDN's as the users themselves are CDN's. With the giant number of users comes better bandwidth and latency then even cloudfare. Let's say your neighbour watched the olympics this year and it was streamed from jewtube. If you also watched the olympics you would get the latency from your line to your neighbors line to watch it with him. Rather then waiting for the hop to the jewtube CDN that is streaming the olympics. The more neighbors and neighbor's neighbors that use IPFS the faster and better bandwidth it gets since it it just a giant merkle tree.

Now replace "olympics" with "8ch" and replace "jewgle" with "cloudfare". Now apply this to all major websites and data dissimenates by being replicated with each IPFS instance rather then needing a CDN to replicate and then send the data.

>>934280

I am not talking about the users either you moron.

> If you forced users to adopt IPFS you wouldn't need to keep adding CDN's as the users themselves are CDN's. With the giant number of users comes better bandwidth and latency then even cloudfare.

Lol no. Some neet's coffee-drenched thinkpad that is connected via wifi won't give me better bandwidth nor latency than servers that are directly plugged into 100G ports on all IXPs. You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>934284

>Some neet's coffee-drenched thinkpad that is connected via wifi won't give me better bandwidth nor latency

<servers that are directly plugged into 100G ports on all IXPs

Have you considered that the neet's thinkpad that is right next to you is closer both in space and latency then the 100G ported server that is half way around the world serving hundreds of millions of requests at the same time?

That server might be able to send a 1GB file all at once, but once it hits your ISP's, as an example, 20 MB connection it has to slow down. Now if two people, you and the neet, are downloading that 1GB file at the same time it would be faster to just download it from the neet then wait for the 20MB bandwidth to free up and for you to download it a second time from the original server. Now multiply this out for hundreds of millions of people using IPFS if kikes forced it. It simply is better the more people use it.

>>934289

> the neet's thinkpad that is right next to you is closer both in space and latency

Most likely not in latency. I don't care about space as long as it's not too close.

>server that is half way around the world

What do you not understand about "all IXPs"?

> but once it hits your ISP's, as an example, 20 MB connection it has to slow down.

Dude, if your ISP sucks that bad, you should switch. Get your shit together.

>then wait for the 20MB bandwidth to free up and for you to download it a second time from the original server.

This is a problem that doesn't exist if you don't live in America, Australia, or Africa.

>>934295

>>934289

And no, it doesn't matter if your ISP has 20 MB/s or 20000. If there's congestion on their core network, they suck.

>>934302

>Are you shitposting intentionally or were you born retarded?

No, are you?

>Europe and russia have shit bandwidth too for most ISP's or consumers to the CDN/IXP of major websites.

Between ISPs and CDNs it couldn't be better.

>unlike a central delivery from botnet controlled IXP with CDN's, IPFS has better reliability.

Some dude's wifi laptop is not reliable.

>If that 100GB IXP goes down and the dozens or so CDN's have not the content cached, you are screwed.

Good thing IXPs are all over the place and go down about once per decade.

>Since you don't seem to respond to logic,

Try harder.

>>934310

>when you could just let the weeb in the starbucks cafe do it for you, using electricity you don't pay for?

Servers give better bits per watt. If I'm a cache for other people, I'm paying consumer prices for electricity.

>>>If that 100GB IXP goes down and the dozens or so CDN's have not the content cached, you are screwed.

>>Good thing IXPs are all over the place and go down about once per decade.

>Of course the IXP's won't actually tell the truth about how often they do or don't go down

Are you retarded?

>IPFS is so much better if you don't have (((their))) support to share a file or information.

No one's ever stopped me from sharing information that some weeb at the same starbucks wifi will cache for me.

>IPFS saves you or even (((them))) money by using other peoples electricity instead of your own for a CDN.

It either saves me money or them.

>IPFS also caches content better since you can't just delete something from it once it has been shared unlike with a IXP/CDN that (((they))) control.

Again, what shithole do you live in? Any content I'm interested in is not being censored.

>>934313

<Servers give better bits per watt.

>what is every single phone in existence

>what are intel atom proccessors

>what is a laptop

<It either saves me money or them.

If you use a phone to share ipfs content you are using less electricity then a intel xeon proccessor. Sure it *might* be slower, but with more peers and more IPFS users comes more bandwidth and less latency. Which is perfect for largely viewed things like the olympics.

>No one's ever stopped me from sharing information that some weeb at the same starbucks wifi will cache for me.

I am glad you have never have experienced known censorship yet under such circumstances. May it continue as such for you.

>>923567

>Fiber is effectively vaporware

maybe in your turd world shithole

here every apartment has it

>>923567

I'm sorry but how is fiber vaporware? You clearly don't work within any competent company or have any relevant experience working with modern infrastructure...

>>934313

>>934317

This argument is essentially pointless, no shit high grade fiber equipment would be the best most of the time... the thing is, building a user run meshnet likely isn't going to have that sort of shit when it starts up. Who the fuck cares about a bit of latency when you're dealing with just starting out with a plan, get yourself a functional baseline and improve off of that! The point is to get away from centralized and censorable infrastructure and putting the power in the hands of the users to control the web better. IPFS is far from an ideal solution but it's functional and can be used to build the starting ground for user-based CDNs within a meshnet. Eventually there'd be a point in arguing over latency issues but for now there's more value in collaboration to get something functional off the ground.

>>934339

My point is that there's no way to convince normie website operators to add IPFS caching to their websites, as >>934243 suggested.

Mesh nets are nice and everything, but the first step in that direction will look different.

>>921714

The free market and consumer boycott won't work. Only government regulation can fix this and I am not joking.

>>934243

>Even if let's say jewgle started supporting IPFS, you would still have to get normalfags to use IPFS or the browser addon.

They could show a pop-up saying "hey, YouTube won't work until you download this add-on" or just integrate it into Chrome.

>>934935

Should point out that Google wouldn't have to force anyone to do anything, they already own Chrome and know that other browsers will follow suit.

>>934339

Fiber is only vaporware in locations that kikes have monopolies over the current shit infrastructure and refuse to let it be upgraded.

>>921304 (OP)

Nice vaporware cuckshits.

>>921304 (OP)

No can do OP. /tech/ has all but given up on the possibility of decentralization. Read this thread for further insight of our surrender.

>>932699

As of June 26, 2018, the fight for encryption and a more free, secure internet has officially been largely lost.

>>935419

Where were you when based blackpill has rekt all deluded hope for anything in the future?

So is anyone down to work on a little project and build a network for shits and giggles? I can host a cjdns node, a few sites, maybe an IRC, and maybe a quake server.

>>935419

>>935427

Decentralization isn't possible because of ISP's. If the Internet still existed where each node could talk to every other node, then decentralization wouldn't matter, but as ISP's are the initial entry point for everything online, decentralization becomes a mole game for ISP's to bonk whoever doesn't follow their normal or licensed use policies. Until there is some mode for people to access the Internet outside of ISP's, decentralization is a pipedream.

I really hope this shit takes off it can change the way shit works at a fundamental level and fuck with the hostile corporate takeover of my beloved meme sharing platform