[–]▶ No.871189>>871203 >>871238 >>871244 >>871289 >>871315 >>871327 >>872007 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Take Debian as an example
>switched to systemd even though near half of the dev team said not to
>devuan is better in literally every way
Also take Xubuntu
>now becoming botnet in 18.04
>mx linux is systemd free and is better in literally every way
What happened to debian and its family distros? Why can't they all be as polished as MX?
▶ No.871192
Another distro thread, great
▶ No.871193
op is a nigger and his thread stinks!
▶ No.871203>>871238
>>871189 (OP)
systemd is the way of the future
you only dont like it because youre scared of change
▶ No.871238>>871239 >>871240 >>871249 >>871269 >>871274 >>871276 >>871298 >>871301 >>871344 >>872045 >>872113
>>871203
Shut up.
>>871189 (OP)
Why is systemd bad? Name one reason. I bet you can't. You're going to spew some nonsense you read on the chans.
▶ No.871239
>>871238
but le UNIX way :DDDDDD
▶ No.871240
>>871238
it's bloat and buggy
▶ No.871241
Monkeys at Debian or the trillion different distros can't code for shit, so they adopt whatever Red Hat shits out, because it's going to be supported and developed for at least a decade, unlike the whims of some autistic hacker
▶ No.871244>>873620
>>871189 (OP)
>>switched to systemd even though near half of the dev team said not to
So over half of the dev team was in favor of systemd? Why shouldn't they switch to systemd at that point?
They just picked systemd as the default. You can still install other init systems, for fuck's sake.
When is the last time you directly interacted with your init system? Is your opinion informed at all, or are you just picking the hippest opinion?
▶ No.871249>>871253 >>872073
>>871238
>why is systems bad?
It is slow. Need more reasons?
▶ No.871253
>>871249
I hate systemd but it's currently the fastest init only being beaten by runit
▶ No.871257>>871258
Around 20% of the people who argue against systemd (on /tech/, anyway) understand what systemd is and what it does.
If it were 0% then these arguments could just be dismissed as entirely pointless. If it were 80% then these arguments would be informed and interesting. But instead we're stuck in the worst possible world, where the anti-systemd crowd has a lot of a valid arguments but most of what it produces is still bullshit.
▶ No.871258>>871271
>>871257
>where the anti-systemd crowd has a lot of a valid arguments
Name one.
▶ No.871269>>871270
>>871238
>Name one reason. I bet you can't
Go formulate that question on the devuan mailing list fag.
▶ No.871270>>871272
>>871269
You mean the folks who manage to maintain Debian two releases behind schedule?
▶ No.871271
>>871258
None of these are a problem for me personally (so I'm a happy systemd user), but off the top of my head:
- Only compatible with Linux
- A couple of small bad weird things (leading digits in usernames and the 8.8.8.8 fallback DNS are overblown, but still problematic)
- INI file specifications are more opaque than shell scripts (I like tasteful opacity, but not everyone does, even outside the context of systemd)
- A lot more things happen in PID 1 (again, most claims about this are overblown because it separates most things into different processes, but PID 1 still is a lot larger than traditional, and that does have disadvantages)
- Violates the Unix philosophy (even moreso than GNU, GNU's violations are restricted by Unix compatibility) (I personally hate the Unix philosophy though)
▶ No.871272>>871273
>>871270
Then do it yourself.
▶ No.871273>>871275
>>871272
But why would I? I have no reason to maintain Debian since Debian is already being maintained by the Debian team, and I have no reason to use Debian because I have more than 512MiB of RAM.
▶ No.871274>>871278 >>871282
>>871238
>Name one reason. I bet you can't
Just read this fucking thread and get your head out of the trash
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161204.215049.93e768e9.en.html
>There is absolutely no reason to build procps against libsystemd and pull in all that shiny /usr/... namespace which makes systems unbootable in the end.
>By the way, other packages that are linked to libsystemd for no need or even worse:
>- - tor
>- - stunnel4
>- - rpcbind
>- - rsyslog
>- - openvpn
>- - iodine
>Sure. Nice API, isn't it!? Every Tool has its own tools to query special values. Just systemd must infect every standard tool.
>The same I could ask why ls does not display acls (getfacl) or capabilities (getcap and why does ps not show them? (getpcaps)) or fileattributes (lsattr)? Only systemd has to infect all other tools that aggressively.
>And look at the costs. It pulls in all the systemd environment just for a ps!? It breaks several usecases.
>Not to mention, why such daemons like tor or stunnel need to be linked against systemd.
▶ No.871275
>>871273
kys for baiting this low.
▶ No.871276>>871278
>>871238
-large filesize
-practically needs multiple daemons running at once
-depends on dbus
▶ No.871278
>>871274
>>871276
You mean it's big and that's scary. What's the point in using a multi-user multi-ring operating system then?
▶ No.871282>>872926
>>871274
Why exactly do these things depend on systemd?
▶ No.871289>>871481
>>871189 (OP)
>devuan is better in literally every way
[citation needed]
▶ No.871298>>871299 >>871302
>>871238
>over 700 reported issues.
>durrr why is systemd bad?
▶ No.871299
>>871298
>lol what is a bug
See? I told you you lot would just spout nonsense you read on the chans.
▶ No.871301
>>871238
>why is systemd bad
It's not as simple and easy to use as FreeBSD's rc.
▶ No.871302
>>871298
Do you know literally anything about software development at all?
▶ No.871315>>871321 >>871328 >>871980
>>871189 (OP)
The devs can not be trusted to make sane decisions, it's as simple as that.
<binary logs by default, for a long time
<willing to significantly change behaviour just to fix bugs that aren't even their own (see "systemd kills tmux" issue)
I'm sure I could find a lot more if I wanted, those are just some I remember of the top of my head.
▶ No.871327>>871980
>>871189 (OP)
>What happened to the debian family?
First, Ubuntu and its ilk started gaying everything up.
Second, those with leftist leanings started infiltrating the mailing lists and becoming vocal.
Third, the default systemd implementation was extremely controversial and caused many oldfags to bail.
Despite all that, I don't believe the distro's beyond hope just yet. There is time to reverse these problems before it becomes your standard BSDM garbage, and there is still plenty in favor of the project even now. For example, Debian has -the- most elegant, pragmatic solution to the binary blob issue, prioritizing the user's freedom of choice and needs over rigid, blunt licensing ideology. More recently, Debian adopted a reproducible build policy to thwart the insertion of malicious backdoors at compile time. And then there's the simple fact that you really can't beat Debian on support. Remember that Debian is one of the world's largest free software projects - some shit is going to fall through the cracks regardless, and people love to focus on negativity, so you've gotta weigh the good and the bad.
▶ No.871328>>871343
>>871315
The unreasonable default behavior Unix has for background processes is in the area of session management, which is one of systemd's areas. I'm not sure if the way they handle it is reasonable but it is appropriate for them to handle it.
▶ No.871343
>>871328
The reasoning behind a change could be entirely reasonable (and whether patching up gnome's fuckups is that case is highly disputable at best), but I simply am not going to use an init, where the devs are capable of pulling a surprise change like this and not put it at the top of the changelog in big red letters.
▶ No.871344
>>871238
It isn't, people in /tech/ are /g/ refugees who wanted to get away from the remaining Windows users on that board and since /g/ is so toxic they're horribly misinformed
▶ No.871481
>>871289
i tried it but removed immediately after i saw that their repos have packages that will still install libsystemd
▶ No.871980>>872008
>>871321
lol lenntard you aren't fooling anybody. >>871315 is 100% true
>>871327
>Debian has -the- most elegant, pragmatic solution to the binary blob
I still wish they included WiFi firmware on their installationCD
▶ No.872007
>>871189 (OP)
>>switched to systemd even though near half of the dev team said not to
>now becoming botnet in 18.04
Sauce or didn't happen.
▶ No.872008
>>871980
>I still wish they included WiFi firmware on their installationCD
use nonfree iso. It's on their site.
▶ No.872045>>872049
>>871238
>Name one reason.
Too many lines of code, breaks too often, has had too many security flaws.
▶ No.872049>>872241
▶ No.872073
>>871249
/g/tard spotted
youve clearly never used it
▶ No.872113>>872119
>>871238
I run ubuntu gnome and the only time I ever crash is systemd udev trying to perform a memory dump when it's not working right
▶ No.872119>>872120
>>872113
>ubuntu gnome
heres your problem
▶ No.872120>>874019
>>872119
It does use systemd, correct
▶ No.872241
>>872049
Not at all and I named more than one problem with it.
systemd is officially shit.
▶ No.872926
>>871282
i imagine systemd pulls in tor because there's spyware in it and it uses tor to send stuff back to big brother
▶ No.873620
>>871244
I agree. Users keep blabbing about systemd, but they can very well install another init of their preference. I never understood the grunge dragged about systemd.
▶ No.873838
systemd resolver defaults to google dns as fallback dns servers unless configured properly or disabled.
botnet is for normies.
▶ No.874019
>>872120
Better than any other init system (that's not saying much though)