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File (hide): 2149b030b73e348⋯.png (3.53 MB, 2500x2220, 125:111, Sinclair_Information_Broke….png) (h) (u)

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 No.1036703>>1045066 >>1045565 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

Will JPEG ever be succeeded as the default lossy image encoding standard on the Internets?

Shit's getting old and is only surviving due to the (((industry))) failing to adopt any superior standards widely enough no matter how good they are.

Does AVIF have any chance of breaking that deadlock or is it fugd too?

 No.1036710>>1036993

Nothing is objectively better to the degree that makes jpeg worth replacing.


 No.1036711>>1036993

As long as it works and is supported it will be used. You don't fix something that isn't broken.


 No.1036715>>1036718 >>1036732 >>1037503

>>1036705 hide an image

How can I encode an image into another image?


 No.1036718

>>1036715

these guys are experts at that kind of thing >>>/g/


 No.1036721>>1036993 >>1037225

A quick search showed me that even though AVIF is in fact able to produce images of higher quality while needing less storage space (not accounting for metadata, only the size of the image), it requires about 10 to 15 fold the processing time to decode. How significant is theis difference? Browsers are already bloated and slow as hell and requiring more time to load images may not be worth the saved bandwith.


 No.1036729>>1036754

Not until you can safely use a better format in all the browsers in use that support JPEG. There are better choices, but as a web dev, what do you do? Do you support a newer image format and have broken images all over the place for some people too stupid to update? Make some sort of fallback where if the browser doesn't recognize the new format, it gets a JPEG? Then you have another connection and more requests, making the page load longer.

It's a matter of market share, and people will use a shitty version of something if it's well supported, instead of a superior version that's not well supported.


 No.1036732>>1036743

>>1036715 You can hide a CP image into another image and distribute it to people concealing the fact that it contains a CP image, ha ha.


 No.1036743

>>1036732 Send the image to somebody and call 911. FBI will raid her house.


 No.1036754>>1036790

>>1036729

browsers arent the only thing that use jpg. its also used on many old simple devices that wont ever get updates that would add support for anything else. also most cameras/phones take jpg pictures by default(not talking about your $10000 special cameras that normal people dont even have) and have no way to change to another format so that wont help with the change.


 No.1036790>>1036993

File (hide): cba0b2d3434bf3b⋯.webm (Spoiler Image, 2.09 MB, 480x360, 4:3, loli_rape_720p.webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]

>>1036754

The only way I can ever see Jpeg being "replaced" is by Jewgle&frens shoving AVIF down the users' throat.

It might see some degree of wider adoption if Jewdroid 9 adopts it as the forced default image format for onboard photography and Jewsweek/Salon/Washington Post/CNN/Hareetz/Computer Bild/Moronix/Newsplus start to simultaneously shit out articles with high res AVIF images and ant res Jpeg fallbacks while informing the users how they should upgrade their webbrowsers for next-gen 4K HDR image support, otherwise AVIF won't go much further than becoming the Android analog of HEIC.


 No.1036819>>1036998 >>1037867 >>1037911

I think it's seeing its last years. The successor will be either HEIF, AVIF or JPEG XL.


 No.1036993>>1037014 >>1037077 >>1037101 >>1037837 >>1045144 >>1045479 >>1045565

File (hide): 2342f9554704de4⋯.png (9.83 KB, 339x267, 113:89, 672-svg-basics-vector.png) (h) (u)

Better question: When are people going to ever stop using bitmaps for everything? Will a vector format with some serious backing as a GIF/PNG replacement better than the bloated XML trash that is SVG ever come along? Will the fansub/scanlation weeb community ever cobble together some combination of a vector format and automatic tracing software using UHD BD 4K raws to make incredibly tiny, yet flawless, releases?

>>1036711

>>1036710

>JPEG isn't that bad

<every single part of JPEG is so ridiculously ancient that replacing just its nondestructive compression stage with something more modern will losslessly compress a JPEG file by a minimum of 15%, and as much as 65%

>>1036721

The flipside is that, while more processing would be needed, less RAM, drive space, cache, bus throughput, and network I/O would be needed. Depending on PC architecture (in particular, the use of GPUs to offload image decompression), this could free up resources for other tasks and produce a net increase of performance.

>>1036790

This, really. If Google and Apple force it together, JPEG could finally be put into the ground forever. If they don't, nothing will ever change. The days of Firefox and activist webadmins being able to push something like PNG are long gone.


 No.1036998

>>1036819

If JPEG XL beats AVIF and is royalty-free, I'd prefer JPEG XL to make it since AV1s primary goal is video encoding where interframe compression is more important.


 No.1037014>>1037165

File (hide): 845f356bbf6f7d6⋯.webm (14.3 MB, 960x720, 4:3, Trouble Windows (HD, subt….webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]

>>1036993

>Will a vector format with some serious backing as a GIF/PNG replacement better than the bloated XML trash that is SVG ever come along?

I share your wish.

>Will the fansub/scanlation weeb community ever cobble together some combination of a vector format and automatic tracing software using UHD BD 4K raws to make incredibly tiny, yet flawless, releases?

Now that's some utopia thinking. Anime is full of textures. Reproducing all those tiny 2x3 pixel shapes would take more file size than raster graphics and it's totally impossible to trace all those subpixel things. Remember Flash? It was pretty limited in what you could do. A mixed approach might work but the animation would have to be released in your mixed raster vector anime dream format.

It's more likely those vector things will get added to raster formats than the raster features to vector formats.

Pure vector graphics will mostly stay an icon or image thing. Not video. That already died long ago with Flash (which also had raster features; all content apart from basic shapes was raster graphics, so even through it was a vector format, it's contents aged badly see vid and because Flash is such a piece of shit gradients don't look that good either).


 No.1037077>>1037084

File (hide): e7ef405a8f00881⋯.webm (15.99 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, To_i_hola.webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]

>>1036993

>vector video codec

I for one would appreciate some kind of real-time 3DCG rendering "codec", but with certain effects mostly reflections hardcoded in the video file and passed through a standardized texture mapping "decoder" so the user's GPU doesn't melt itself.

In order to avoid bloat the input's camera perspective would be raytraced during encoding with the encoder only storing visible textures+model data in the video file, with variable levels of compression.

The decoder/encoder could also automatically truncate non-discernible triangles+texture detail at smaller playback resolutions/lower encoding "bitrates".

Is this doable with CY+4 tech and if so would it be excessively bloated?


 No.1037084>>1037135

>>1037077

That vidrel.

Tfw a Polish museum makes Hatsune Miku sing a Polish folk song.


 No.1037101

>>1036993

im sure that google and everything owned by facebook and similar will change when its possible. then they can put that storage and bandwidth money to profits instead


 No.1037135

>>1037084

One of Miku's most popular songs is a Finnish folk song.


 No.1037165>>1045479

File (hide): a8d758a25b4b621⋯.webm (8.07 MB, 922x716, 461:358, Waterlollies.webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]

>>1037014

Aside from the typical "Bézier curves and fills" vector geometry, there are other more exotic types, such as the shader-like skeletal strokes, warping, and dynamic filters, introduced in vector software like Expression and Xara.

Even in the case of Flash, the problem with the animation you posted isn't Flash, but the fact that it's "limited animation", e.g.: Rigid paper dolls, panning/scaling objects, simple 4-point stretching, lazy tweening. It's perfectly possible to do "full animation" in Flash, complete with rich shading through careful use of gradients and transparencies, vid related.

>A mixed approach might work but the animation would have to be released in your mixed raster vector anime dream format.

That would be ideal (especially since most anime is already done using vectors after the inking phase, so colorists can do their job easier), but hardly necessary. An approach already common in OCR and tracing software is to "punch out" sharp objects such as lineart and text for vectorization, leaving softer backgrounds to be bitmap compressed more aggressively. Combined with interframe motion detection already used in modern video codecs and framedoubler software like SVP, this would allow some measure of tweening to be reintroduced as well, further increasing both efficiency and quality.


 No.1037225>>1045144

File (hide): effa0d56ba03af1⋯.png (221.36 KB, 444x506, 222:253, d27bc7f294c1b630c7ba74c1f9….png) (h) (u)

>>1036721

Browsers don't take that much CPU resources. And even if the browser is pooly threaded (they all are), threading the decoding of an inline image is trivial. Any impact may be unnoticeable simply because unused resources are now being used.


 No.1037503

>>1036715

You can, it's called steganography.

Many programs that do this


 No.1037717>>1045396

PNG is superior already


 No.1037837>>1037900

>>1036993

SVG can already be compressed reasonably well with EXI. What's missing is software support.


 No.1037867

>>1036819

FLIF anyone?


 No.1037900>>1037923 >>1038084

>>1037837

and that SVG is a huge security risk.

>Early on Tuesday, November 29th, Mozilla was provided with code for an exploit using a previously unknown vulnerability in Firefox. The exploit was later posted to a public Tor Project mailing list by another individual. The exploit took advantage of a bug in Firefox to allow the attacker to execute arbitrary code on the targeted system by having the victim load a web page containing malicious JavaScript and SVG code. It used this capability to collect the IP and MAC address of the targeted system and report them back to a central server. While the payload of the exploit would only work on Windows, the vulnerability exists on Mac OS and Linux as well. Further details about the vulnerability and our fix will be released according to our disclosure policy.

>The exploit in this case works in essentially the same way as the “network investigative technique” used by FBI to deanonymize Tor users (as FBI described it in an affidavit). This similarity has led to speculation that this exploit was created by FBI or another law enforcement agency. As of now, we do not know whether this is the case. If this exploit was in fact developed and deployed by a government agency, the fact that it has been published and can now be used by anyone to attack Firefox users is a clear demonstration of how supposedly limited government hacking can become a threat to the broader Web.


 No.1037911

>>1036819

HEIF format sucks. In fact all media containers and are awfull, you need like 100K LOC just to parse the file.


 No.1037923>>1037929 >>1045479

>>1037900

>SVG is a huge security risk

It's undeniably better than PDF and PostScript which had a code execution vuln with all applications using ghostscript last year.

It's not a script, so it's a lot better and safer even through it's fucking xml garbage and inefficient.


 No.1037929>>1037934

>>1037923

>It's undeniably better than PDF and PostScript which had a code execution vuln with all applications using ghostscript last year.

Never claimed otherwise. I only open those formats in Tails. This might be an extreme countermeasure, but then again better to be safe than sorry.

>It's not a script, so it's a lot better and safer even through it's fucking xml garbage and inefficient.

Compared to PDF and PostScript, yes. But not good or safe enough compared to HTML or plain text.


 No.1037934

>>1037929

And I only open those formats in chromium based browser because those have sandboxing for pdfs.

>compared to HTML or plain text

However you can't save vector graphics in those "formats". And Firefox being a clusterfuck isn't an argument against svg.

My bigger problem is that it's based on eternal nesting of tags and XML which is fucking gay, slow and stupid.


 No.1038084>>1045181

>>1037900

So you're saying that unaccountable non-free Javascript programs are a security risk. How about disabling Javascript for non-free programs and this won't be a problem.


 No.1041678

shut up and use png like any sane person


 No.1045066

File (hide): 09d229abe286721⋯.png (3.01 MB, 2500x2220, 125:111, Sinclair_Information_Broke….png) (h) (u)


 No.1045144

>>1036993

>When are people going to ever stop using bitmaps for everything?

Never, because bitmaps map well to the real world (pixels on a screen).

> Will a vector format with some serious backing as a GIF/PNG replacement better than the bloated XML trash that is SVG ever come along?

No, because expressing a generic image as vectors is a terrible idea.

Vector graphics are great in some cases, most notably when dealing with text and geometric shapes, but absolutely terrible outside of that, because they do not map to reality in a meaningful way.

>>1037225

>Browsers don't take that much CPU resources.

t. LARPer.

CPU time on js processing is the biggest performance bottleneck in browsers at the moment, performance after the page is loaded means jack shit if you froze the user's PC for multiple seconds right before.


 No.1045181>>1045203 >>1045393

>>1038084

>How about disabling Javascript

Actually the SVGs are dangerous themselves, though not as dangerous as JS. The Qt framework also had a vulnerability when parsing svg aswell.

JS is used when abusing such vulnerabilities to see if the potential victim is vulnerable to whatever attack will be contained in the payload.


 No.1045203

>>1045181

Are you talking about the fact you can embed JS into SVG or something else? Because if the latter, then PNG pics are an attack vector too LOL.


 No.1045393>>1045417

>>1045181

svg allows actual remote code execution sometimes. i dont remember javascript ever doing that.


 No.1045396

>>1037717

pngquant is also a very nice tool to lossy compress PNGs


 No.1045417>>1045479

>>1045393

>remote code execution

>i dont remember javascript ever doing that.

:DDDDDDDD

There has not been a single day since the invention of JS in which remote code execution wasn't possible through some vulnerability.

Which is why you use NoScript.


 No.1045479>>1046832

>>1036993

vector graphics aren't good for everything. look at any modern cartoon and look how shit and boilerplate it looks. vector is terrible for art. We should be able to find a sufficient pixel density for all humans and produce all content for that size.

>>1037923

what fucking planet are you on? PDF has RCE vulns every day. so does SVG and its only application (web browser)

>>1037165

>vid related

it's fucking shit

>>1045417

no that's fucking not why you use noscript. you use javascript.enabled;0


 No.1045565>>1046832 >>1046886

This entire thread is autistic.

>>1036703 (OP)

PNG has been better than JPEG in every way for a decade, and every major browser supports APNG, so there's no reason not to replace GIFs with it, too.

Only reason it hasn't been adopted has been because most programs by default output JPEGs for legacy reasons, and most people are too stupid to know the difference and change the default.

Even copies of Photoshop from within the last decade still use JPEG as default, even though the program can export to basically any format. And it only utilizes full PNG compression in the "Save for Web", even though realistically there's no reason not to use PNG for everything.

>>1036993

SVG is great and people designing logos and website assets should be using it.

But it also has some severe limitations, and can't really be used for photographs.

JPEGs are awful where you need fine features, like pictures of people, but work "fine" for landscapes where it all turns to a colored mush anyways.

Vector graphics are great for large flat shapes, but bitmaps are necessary for anything more detailed.


 No.1046832

>>1045479

>vector graphics aren't good for everything

>>1045565

>SVG [...] can't really be used for photographs

Never said otherwise, but the amount of things vector is suitable for, that are instead done using some bitmap format, is enormous.

>PNG has been better than JPEG in every way for a decade

PNG, like GIF, is wholly unsuited to photorealistic content. It's a format that largely shouldn't exist, since anything PNG can compress, should be vector in the first place.


 No.1046842

Vector is not really all that suited for every kind of digital art. You simply can't vectorize efficiently many kinds of pixel art. Good for some, not others.


 No.1046886

File (hide): 947fae941623343⋯.jpg (2 MB, 2122x1415, 2122:1415, family.jpg) (h) (u)

File (hide): 9995e442e412316⋯.png (3.65 MB, 2122x1415, 2122:1415, family.png) (h) (u)

>>1045565

> PNG has been better than JPEG in every way for a decade

Not in every way. There are tons of cases where JPEG gets significantly smaller filesize with only minimal loss in quality. PNG is only really suited to images that have flat areas of constant color.

> JPEGs are awful where you need fine features, like pictures of people, but work "fine" for landscapes where it all turns to a colored mush anyways.

Save with higher quality settings. This jpg is saved at 100% quality and presents no visible difference despite being significantly smaller.


 No.1053827

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.1054363

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.1054382

HAPAS ARE SUPERIOR TO WHITES


 No.1056188

Oof, the racism in this thread!


 No.1057570

I love eating kebabs. Why do you guys want to kill the Muslims?




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