/strek/ - Star Trek ★

>>1752

This is actually a good theory and consistent with what we've seen in the canon.

>>1752

Lets say you are correct about the resistance part, this doesn't explain why the rest of the Borg collective couldn't beat the federation. It is not likely that one individual have a direct responsibility for a core function of a ship or the collective so the fault of one individual with suboptimal functioning shouldn't tip the scales.

Even if this is true and a small part is suboptimal, if these individuals were not functioning correctly they would sure be more likely to perish from various causes, balancing the scales.

>>1752

It also seems likely the Borg would have some sort of control/anti-virus function that periodically purges faulty parts/programming to correct the efficiency of the collective

>>1764

count to think of it, the borg don't really have any protection against sharp weapons

a few good klingons could just board a cube and go wild with some batleths/metleths/d'k tahgs

the federation never even bothered to stab them, they just shot them and then gave up when phasers stopped working

>>1767

I think in quite a few EU material that is actually how a lot of times the Borg were defeated. Either with projectile weapons using that transporting bullet gun from DS9 or by melee combat. The Borg are unable to adapt to a slegehammer to the face.

What's hilarious is that this tactic worked insanely well on STO when the KDF groups would slaughter Borg in melee combat. Klingon NPC's in particular were insanely effective because they would charge them with melee weapons

True, the Borg are a very overpowered enemy, and their capacity to absorb the characteristics of every civilization they assimilate and to adapt to any kind of weapon is used against them (except melee weapons, but i doubt they would be of much use in a space battle anyway) should have them rapidly and unrestrainably expand in every direction until they assimilate all the galaxy

But then again, that way we wouldn't have a story, so the writers come up some silly idea to make them lose anyway

>>1791

>except melee weapons, but i doubt they would be of much use in a space battle anyway

Reminds me of the 40k-Star Trek crossover on /tg/

Orkz managed to loot and assimilate the Borg. Imperial Cruisers just rammed their cubes and smashed them to bits using macro cannon batteries.

Since the power of friendship is the most powerful force in the universe, and the Federation are friends with everyone, the Federation is the most powerful force in the universe.

>>1750 (OP)

>Why couldn't the Borg just crush the federation, they had many occasions to succeed?

The Borg run on computer logic. The Captains of the Federation have been known to literally talk computers to death.

The Borg can only adapt, react, whereas the Federation is proactive in its innovations.

That said, the odds are with the Borg of eventually overcoming the Federation if they can keep it up for long enough. Sooner or later, the Feds will run out of ideas.

>Borg have shields that seem to only stop energy

>Federation doesn't simply replicate a bunch of AKMs and give them to half the security teams

Sure it would only work a few times but it must have come to mind.

>>1817

All I pictured there was S.T.A.L.K.E.R.S vs Borg

>>1829

>Are you implying that humans just stopped all production and development of ballistic weapons when energy weapons became a thing?

Are you implying that they didn't? With the exception of Klingon bat'leths and daggers (the latter seems to be mostly used for cutting the palm of one's hand for oaths), I don't believe I've ever seen a Federation member use a blade that wasn't tossed to him by a dour planetary native during some rite they had stumbled into.

>so I don't think the Federation wouldn't have the ability to get any if the situation demanded it.

Obviously they could replicate them at will. My point was whether or not they'd think to replicate one.

>>1844

Borg can't adapt to classical Jazz.

>>1879

>Borg can't adapt to classical Jazz.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

>>1844

Yeah they would probably be able to adapt to melee weapons and such, it is just another type of energy after all..

This has me thinking:

Shields in Star Trek run on particular frequencies. If the incoming attack is outside the receiving shield's effective frequency range, the attack goes right through it. If you keep shuffling your weapons' frequencies, then the Borg cannot adapt to it, since they have to guess what frequency to set their shields to. This is how the Infinity Modulator worked in Elite Force.

If they were to try to set their shields to every frequency, the resulting waveform would just be a lot of noise, requiring loads more power to sustain and much less efficiency. Plus, they'd ultimately have to select some finite range of frequencies to fill, since the distribution can't be across an infinite number of frequencies.

I would hypothesize that the I-MOD could be adjusting its modulation with a randomized irrational increment, thus ensuring (if on a rotating scale) that it would never return to exactly the same frequency, within the accuracy limits of the system handling it.

Seriously, though, randomized rotating weapon modulation would necessarily require the Borg to either predict what the frequency is for every single incoming attack and adjust the shields to counter them in real time (eating a lot of computer time and power) or force them to overload their shield generators, unless and until they invent shield technology that doesn't operate on harmonics.

>>2028

I always thought the borg didn't use Shields and instead relied on a sort of organic hull layer which changes to absorb attack?

>>2029

Nope. They remodulate their shields.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Borg#Technology

>Their speed was so quick when adapting that they could modulate their shields and weapons to be effective against most ships and energy weapons in seconds. (Star Trek: First Contact)

>>1791

YOUR COMPUTERS WILL INSTALL WINDOWS 10

>>2089

Windows 10 would destroy the Borg.

>>2097

Windows 10 was the program they were going to put into Hugh like a virus that Picard veto'd because it was too cruel.

>>2117

>>2097

>>2096

Just imagine if they installed Vista instead, instaWin.exe

>>2137

That's the virus they used in Voyager to cripple the collective.

>>2089

>Your computers will install windows 10

>>1750 (OP)

I think I remember reading about a script proposal for "Best of Both Worlds" that one of their plans to beat the Borg was to link Data into the ships computer where he could out-Borg the Borg. Data would essentially be able to remodulate shields and weapons adapting faster than the Borg could which turned him into the focal point of Borg attention. Idea was scrapped but parts were reused for First Contact where it was hinted that the real reason is that the Borg wanted to assimilate Data, not stop First Contact.

>>2828

That would have been bad-ass.

I've got to admit something: as much as I liked Picard, the thought of Captain Riker and First Officer Shelby continuing on was a future I was eager to accept.

isnt it pretty much humanity which is the deus ex machina in every star trek plot?

thats why TOS is basically kirk fucking alines all the time, his human love ie his penis fixes all their problems all the time

the borg believe themselves to be perfect but the morality that is sold in star trek is that they have sacrificed their humanity (or humandoidity). in pursuit of creating the perfect organism they have compromised their spirit and their ingenuity, they are overspecialised.

borg replicate for the sake of replicating, humans persists for the sake of the higher good and so are willing to adapt to difficult circumstances and then ultimately their will overcomes the borgs blind endeavour. thinking it about the borg even do that whole thing where they ignore people if they arent high enough on their argo list.

>>3052

The Borg don't replicate just for the sake of replicating, they want to add anything useful to enhance the overall super being. The threat, as it was originally before it got nerfed and pozzed, was this thing keeps growing more and more powerful while it spreads as it absorbs every civilization's advantages into itself. Eventually it'd swallow all life in the universe.

In reality however I think a collective consciousness such as that at some point would seek evolution rather than expansion. After awhile assimilation wouldn't offer much further advancement since the tech an cultures they'd run across would be similar to what it already encountered. It'd seek out the more advanced life forms in Star Trek, energy beings, Q, shit like that and try to find a way to assimilate it or become more like it.

>>3056

Wasn't it alleged that the 29th Century Collective no longer assimilates races, instead it takes their DNA and uses it to grow new drones?

>>3366

Exodite Eldar. Even the Tau could fight the Borg.

>>3052

>isnt it pretty much humanity which is the deus ex machina in every star trek plot?

Homo ex machina

No, not that homo

>>3056

>After awhile assimilation wouldn't offer much further advancement since the tech an cultures they'd run across would be similar to what it already encountered

Depends on the "rules" of the universe they are being compared in. Know the "apes or angels" paradox for running into space aliens? Basically, it suggests that if aliens arrived on earth at a random point in time during its existance, from the formation of the solar system till it gets swallowed up by the expanding star, the change of them hitting the time we are in now, plus or minus a millennia is infinitesimally small. The odds are that they would be arriving somewhere millions or billions of years before or after our current time. The same goes the other way, when humans arrive on alien worlds looking for intelligent life, what we find is most likely going to be millions of years behind us in evolution, barely more than apes, or millions of years ahead of us, with technology that might as well be magic and enough power to wipe out entire systems with an afterthought. Angels in other words.

If the borg run into the latter, they are going to stop all by themselves really fast, or get jumped up in power to the point they can likely overrun the galaxy in weeks, assuming they don't run into anyone even older.

The strength of the borg however isn't just that they take over others, but that the technological evolution of different species isn't a linear thing. Not every race might develop full plate armor during their medieval wars, or gunpowder. What the borg do is simply collecting all the different civilisations, points of view and technology and adding it to their own.

Logically, borg would know how to adapt to getting punched or hacked down by a batleth, because they would have takenover and eaten many other civilisations who had found ways of keeping their soldiers alive in the face of getting punched and stabbed before. Its called armor we've had that since ancient times.

So in the face of some new thing killing a drone or even wiping out a cube, the collective just studies what happened and pick a countermeassure from the pool of experience of all the civilisations they've absorbed.

I really don't see why any of the weapons used in 40k would be exempt from this.

Asside from special cases like the Black Citadels, most of the weapons used in 40k aren't that much more powerful than the stuff we see in Trek.

Comparing the tech in 40k directly with Trek poses another problem though. We don't know that Voidshields on an imperial battleship are anything like the shields used in trek. They don't behave the same way. And if they aren't the same, we can't assume they can block Trek Transporters. We have similar questions raised when it comes to possesion. Can a demon from 40k posses a human from trek who doesn't have a connection to the warp the way 40k humans do? How effectively can a trek phaser set to stun, fuck with a Space Marines central nervous system? What about a demons? Would space marine armor even protect its occupant against the disintegrating effect of trek phasers?

>>3366

>Implying the Tau couldn't beat the Borg

They managed to beat the Tyranids.

>>3392

>Logically, borg would know how to adapt to getting punched or hacked down by a batleth, because they would have takenover and eaten many other civilisations who had found ways of keeping their soldiers alive in the face of getting punched and stabbed before. Its called armor we've had that since ancient times.

>So in the face of some new thing killing a drone or even wiping out a cube, the collective just studies what happened and pick a countermeassure from the pool of experience of all the civilisations they've absorbed.

There are a lot of weapons in 40k that laugh at armour and aren't beam/particle/heat/melee weapons. Most common Tau weapons would make swiss cheese of them, never mind things like Graviton guns and D-Cannons, and that's just stuff carried by infantry. Necrons would make short work of them too as weapons that work using principals of quantum mechanics have proven to be 100% effective against the Borg thus far in canon.

>Comparing the tech in 40k directly with Trek poses another problem though. We don't know that Voidshields on an imperial battleship are anything like the shields used in trek. They don't behave the same way.

We do know actually. Void shields take whatever you shoot at them and drop them into the warp where they can't hurt anything (except deamons naturally but nobody cares about them.). They CAN be overpowered and dropped however by piling on enough damage or by using something really big like a suitably sized asteroid or another ship, and I don't imagine they're particularly resistant to phasers or torpedoes, those things are pretty powerful and would probably be equivalent to the normal sort of ship based weaponry seen in 40k.

>And if they aren't the same, we can't assume they can block Trek Transporters.

The same can be said for 40k teleporters since they send people through the warp. Frankly I'd be more worried about marines with hull breaching gear than Borg or redshirts, but technologically both sides have the same advantages here with teleporter tech since they both work so differently from each-other.

>How effectively can a trek phaser set to stun, fuck with a Space Marines central nervous system? What about a demons?

I imagine it'd work well enough on an unarmoured marine. For all their enhancements they're still basically human. It would likely do nothing to deamons though since they're warp entities and you need something more physically violent to stop a creature made from pure emotion made manifest.

>Would space marine armor even protect its occupant against the disintegrating effect of trek phasers?

No more than it would a lascannon, which is to say not at all. Maybe a Terminator can resist it better.

The subject of posession is an interesting one though. Since (almost) everyone has a connection to the warp. Psychics just have a stronger connection and thus more vulnerable to posession. The real question is, assuming both universes could interact, do Trek psionics lead to the same vulnerability? Races like Betazoids would be posessed really easily, while Vulcans with all their mental training would have a greater resistance and it'd take a much more powerful daemon to overpower them. Hoping I formatted all this right, it's hard to tell on mobile.

>>3495

Space Marines have redundant nervous systems so a phaser set to stun may do nothing at all.

Also in regards to the Borg, most 40k Ships could simply ram through them with ease since a standard Cruiser is the equivalent if not more mass to a Borg Cube. They fire shells the equivalent of a small starship from Star Trek at targets as well which would simply smash any ships to bits. Hell an Imperial Navy Light Cruiser would be able to stand toe to toe with most things the Borg could throw at it.

>>3495

Despite the power of the weapons from 40k, the real question is, can the borg adapt to them? We know even borg drones can carry personal shields that could make them completely immune to phasers. Why not every other weapon 40k has to throw at them?

We also know that ships in Trek can move at close to relativistic speeds in space, including borg cubes, while everyone in 40k spend weeks traversing a single system at STL speeds once they leave the warp.

Accelleration to said speeds also go to Trek, where all ships move so fast they need inertial dampers to avoid turning their own crews to chunky salsa. Do 40k ships even have inertial dampers? They certainly can't pull hundreds of G's of acceleration.

Range is anyone's guess as both Trek and 40k have been highly inconsistent on what the effective ranges for their ships are.

Firepower? Trek torpedos are nukes, and not small ones either, the quantum torpedo's are 64 megaton yield if my memory serves. Easily as powerful as the torpedoes on an imperial ship.

On the other hand, a 40k imperial battleship armed with large numbers of regular (if very large bore) cannons on its broadsides is considered powerful and dangerous. To put it bluntly, this shows that ranges and firepower of 40k ships are fairly anemic.

Let me give you an example. A modern railgun can push a projectile up to 2500 m/s or so. Even with supertech, 10.000 m/s for a projectile would be insane. Nearly enough to shoot its projectile straight into an orbit. So most likely all those guns on the imperial battleship will have slower projectiles.

In trek, combat is said to easily be 10.000km to 20.000km ranges. Nothing fancy for hard scifi, but it gives us an idea of the ranges used in trek.

Using the extremely generous 10.000 m/s projectile assumption from before, the shots of a broadside on that imperial ship would take 1000 seconds to arrive at a target 10.000 kilometers away. That's nearly 15 minutes, during which the target can try to evade, shoot back or leave.

Assuming slower projectiles, like 2.000 m/s (more than you will get without using a railgun like the tau) travel time for those projectiles will be nearly an hour and a half (83 minutes).

To put it mildly, the effective range of those guns, is a few hundred kilometers at most. Not many weapons on ships in 40k outrange those guns enough to make those guns laughably useless, so there likely aren't many weapons effective at tens of thousands of kilometers range.

Also, there's lots of weird weapons in trek that could likely butfuck anything from 40k, like that thing that tore a hole into subspace in the fabric of reality, tractor beams (do they even have those in 40k?) which can even large vessels, the protomatter bullshit of the genesis device that can rearrange an entire planets molecules (which should be enough to erase even a necron tomb world from existance), time travel shenanigans, transphasic shit that lets ships or torpedoes pull necron style inability to interact with or be interacted with by solid objects until a time of its choosing and so on. Hell, a Klingon Disruptor works by destabilising the molecules of its target to induce spontaneous nuclear fission. Sounds a lot like what necron weapons do, doesn't it? And its something the borg presumably CAN adapt to.

I'd say the jury is out on who has straight up more firepower. But since the fighting will likely take place at ranges where the 40k ships can't effectively shoot back, due to the trek ships superior range and mobility, its kind of moot.

Also kind of makes those ramming attempts kind of ineffective.

Besides we've seen Borg cubes shrug off sustained assaults from a fleet armed with nuclear level weapons, we've seen them repair damage from having a large chunk of its hull cored out by a bombardment of said nukes, in minutes. I wouldn't be so quick to assume a cube would be rendered completely dead from having a ship hit it.

The motives of the Borg should be incomprehensible. Presumably they are playing the long game, one way or another.

>>3541

>The motives of the Borg should be incomprehensible

What? No. Assimilation is their sole motive. What needs to stop is episodes that explore them, humanize them. As much as I love the Hugh episode it really kills the Borg as a major threat, and all the subsequent Borg episodes reduce the Borg down to just another space kingdom/empire/federation-level being rather than the supermassive threat they should pose.

>>3513

>>3621

>Body was too long

>On the other hand, a 40k imperial battleship armed with large numbers of regular (if very large bore) cannons on its broadsides is considered powerful and dangerous. To put it bluntly, this shows that ranges and firepower of 40k ships are fairly anemic.

To be fair, projectile weapons aren't the only thing that most 40k ships are armed with. They also have lance batteries (beam weapons) that are turreted, macrolasers (admittedly lasers aren't nearly as powerful as a phaser at the same scale, but one has to keep in mind how massive everything is in 40k), fusion beamers, guided missiles and many military ships will have fighters. The broadside cannons are more for planetary bombardment and for anyone unlucky enough to cross into that firing arc. The shells fired from those things are the size of small starships on their own and their payload is pretty devastating too. Descriptions of planet bombing mention continents cracking from the impacts. Not from individual shells of course, but it still shows that they're easily in same power range of very large nukes.

>Also, there's lots of weird weapons in trek that could likely butfuck anything from 40k, like that thing that tore a hole into subspace in the fabric of reality, tractor beams (do they even have those in 40k?) which can even large vessels, the protomatter bullshit of the genesis device that can rearrange an entire planets molecules (which should be enough to erase even a necron tomb world from existance), time travel shenanigans, transphasic shit that lets ships or torpedoes pull necron style inability to interact with or be interacted with by solid objects until a time of its choosing and so on.

If you're going to go that route then we can't ignore that 40k has particle whips, graviton pulsars and even starship scale psionic weapons like the Necron Sepulchre which drives everyone in range mad with fear. Both settings have a whole host of super killy weapons that would make any defensive systems pointless.

>Hell, a Klingon Disruptor works by destabilising the molecules of its target to induce spontaneous nuclear fission. Sounds a lot like what necron weapons do, doesn't it?

Even if it did, the method/tech is different.

>I'd say the jury is out on who has straight up more firepower. But since the fighting will likely take place at ranges where the 40k ships can't effectively shoot back, due to the trek ships superior range and mobility, its kind of moot.

Mobility doesn't matter too much when all the turreted weapons are beams anyway.

>Also kind of makes those ramming attempts kind of ineffective.

True. The ship would have to be immobilised first somehow.

>Besides we've seen Borg cubes shrug off sustained assaults from a fleet armed with nuclear level weapons, we've seen them repair damage from having a large chunk of its hull cored out by a bombardment of said nukes, in minutes. I wouldn't be so quick to assume a cube would be rendered completely dead from having a ship hit it.

Dead? No, Borg are far too tenacious for that. Smashed to bits? Oh yes, very much so.

>>3513

>>3621

>>3622

>Range

The effective ranges of most weapons in Space for 40k is around 6-12,000km's, and that's just their short range stuff. Energy weapons in 40k have even more ridiculous range with pretty much a 100% chance to hit

>Firepower

The size of an average shell in 40k is about the size of a small starship in Trek and that's just their small cannons, one of these hitting any ship will ruin someone's day and despite Borg adapting to weapons you cannot ignore the laws of physics. Lance batteries are heavy sustained energy weapons and then there are Plasma Cannons as well. Xenos weapons are even more ridiculous and devastating bar Tau, Tau fucking suck in Space. Even the Orkz outrange them

Then we get to the uncommon weapons, not rare, uncommon. Weapons like the Nova Cannon cause minature black holes. Warp Cannons break the reality of space itself and Pulsar Weapons rip holes through your ship. Ork energy weapons are also surprising nasty here as well. Frankly nothing in the Trek Universe compares. Rare stuff like Cryonic Cannons are just unfair.

>Speed

While most ships in 40k are slow there are a few exceptions. Notably the Eldar, Chaos and Necrons have very fast ships at their disposal. While I would put the Star Trek universe having the clear advantage here I wouldn't discount that a few races giving the Trek universe a run for it's money, especially the Eldar.

>Defenses

40k without a doubt. Not even in terms of sheer strength but with things like Holofields, daemnoic abilities, psykers etc. Not sure I need to go into this one to be honest.

>Borg trying to assimilate any vessel

I cannot think of a worse mistake for the Borg ever to make than to try to assimilate any 40k vessel. It will just not go well for them at any point. Mainly because most of the time they would be outnumbered against crews who are very capable of not only repelling borders but would relish the opportunity to board their vessels. Imperial Navy would send more men than they have drones. Chaos would send daemonic swarms up their ass. Necrons would wonder what the fuck they are even trying to accomplish. Tyrannids would be Species 8472 dialed up to 11. Dark Eldar would rape them all to death literally Orkz would end up looting the Borg and assimilating them into their WAAAGH!

Though the whole thing is pointless since the 40k Universe firing a planet ending torpedo or having a whole subsector being nommed to death by Nids is just a slow Tuesday.

>>3622

>Borgs can't into quantum and bullets

Firstly, bullets and batleths can be stopped with simple armor. Do you really think that not a single one of the civilisations the borg have absorbed have ever had a period in their history where armor was useful enough to develop the tech for simple chainmail or plate armor?

Trek is also ridiculously bad at scientific terminology, so just because they call a weapon a "quantum" anything, don't mean thats what it is. Nor does it mean that borg cannot adapt to it. Besides, voyagers super anti borg torpedo's where Transphasic torpedo's. Quantum torpedo's are sometimes described as having plasma warheads for example, at other times they draw on zeropoint energy to screw with subatomic particles, and yet other times, they are just a new generation of photon torpedos (which aren't made of photons either). The main reason quantum torpedos are supposed to be hard to adapt to for borg however, is that the torpedo's are specifically designed to for this one trait. Its not because "quantum" is something borg aren't supposed to be able to deal with. Its at best just that "quantum" was the writers buzzword for "antiborg" and has nothing to do with quantum mechanics or borg somehow being bad at that entire scientific discipline..

Likewise the stupidity of the "borg can't figure out how to add metal plating to drones" argument for bullets.

The main problem here is that the only time we have seen borgdrones in a protracted battle with their drones, is when they have no resources available in First Contact. Assuming that a small group of drones trying to scavenge resources off a ship they are boarding with no support and who where not prepared specifically for fighting a boarding action, are a good example of what borg drones can do if they have the resources of a cube and have been specialised for the role. Yet, logic dictates that the collective would use drones equipped specifically for this if they where to go into a head on war. So at this point, we are stuck theorising what borg soldiers can do based on what we have seen the borg equivalent of random off the street civilians have been able to do with a few minutes to prepare. So logic would suggest that any borg drone specialised in ground combat and boarding actions where the collective expects hard resistance, is going to be a hell of a lot more dangerous than the ones we've seen on the show. They might even have armor, firearms and far better shields than what normal drones have.

Case in point, the difference between a regular cube and those tactical cubes voyager saw.

>>3622

> They're lumbering compared to Trek ships

In the motion picture, the enterprise managed to get to 0.3 to 0.5c without turning on their warpdrive.

According to the technical manual, Voyagers full impulse speed is around 0.25c. For reference, one quarter the speed of light is around 75.000 m/s.

For reference, that 0.3c - 0.5c was for traveling from earth to jupiter in 1.8 hours. At that speed they could get to Pluto from Earth in around 10-15 hours. A trip that would take imperial ships weeks. Even more striking is that these speeds do not require the ship to accellerate for days or even hours, to get TO those speeds, unlike 40k ships that likely spend most of those weeks of traveling into a system accelerating one half of the trip and decelerating the other half. So trek ships aren't just 20 to 30 times faster at STL speeds, they can accellerate hundreds of times faster than those imperial ships. This isn't about how fast these ships can go over long distances either, just their STL speeds, the ones they'd be moving at in a fight. This means fights would happen only at the ranges the trek ship chose to fight. And since those standard broadside guns have an effective range of a few hundred kilometers unless you want to give your target hours to get out of the way of the shot, those guns are never going to get a chance to even shoot at a target, since the trekie ship can out accellerate the bullet comming out of the barrle of the gun, let alone outrun it over distance and never need to get close enough to risk getting shot in return anyway. If you want an analogy, think of the fight as a hotair balloon with a crew armed with rocks, trying to fight a modern get fighter. Sure, those rocks can fuck up a fighter if it flies into one, but no fighter has any reason to ever get close enough to that balloon to ever get hit, and even if a fighter did, it would be moving so fast the balloons crew would never have a realistic chance of hitting it anyway, due to the slow speed of the rocks.

>To be fair, projectile weapons aren't the only thing that most 40k ships are armed with.

You missed the point, I mentioned those guns because they are not primarily for planetary bombardments, but the main weapons for fighting other ships on a typical imperial battleship. While older and more advanced ships tend to lean more on their lances, they still have those broadsides. But more importantly, those broadside cannons effective range isn't stated to be orders of a magnitude shorter than the alternatives. This gives us a comparison for the kind of ranges you find on ship weapons in 40k.

>>3626

>>3626

>The effective ranges of most weapons in Space for 40k is around 6-12,000km's

Didn't I already explain that those guns fire projectiles so slow they'd be useless at even a fraction of that range? I could have sworn I even gave the math for it.

If this is what 40k ship consider effective range, it doesn't mean that those broadside cannons can magically hit anything at that range, it just means that their normal targets (ie other 40k ships) are so slow and clumsy they can't evade a bullet even with and hour or more to evade it.

This is a retarded claim based on numbers thrown out by a writer who clearly doesn't understand the physics involved. Ironic, considering the way Trek writers usually handle actual physics (accellerating a ship to infinite speed, keeping liquid light in a jar, flying through a crack in a black hole's gravity well and even dumber shit). Even if a Lance has ten times the effective range of a broadside battery (in battlefleet gothic they have like 25%-50% more range) that would still only be 2.000 km to 3.000 km effective range.

>Borgdrones a shit

Not only are you assuming that daemon possesions, ork salvaging, nid mind control and so on somehow automatically outstrip the borgs ability to assimilate and control others. What do you base this assumption on?

More over, for the sake of reference, a cube is supposed to have a crew of 179.000 drones. Even the biggest imperial ships do not carry the equivalent of 100+ regiments of marines. More over, the more protracted the boarding action the bigger the risk that borg nanodprobes and shit will not only take over vital functions in the ship they are boarding, allowing them to do shit like shut down all life support or turn the built in defences on the defenders or just straight up assimilating the crew. The longer the boarding action, the more of this shit the borg can do.

This isn't about straight comparisons. Most of them can't be made for reasons I have already explained. But if that's what you really want, consider this argument.

A fleet of a few dozen Galors and Romulan Warbirds have enough combined firepower to blast a planets crust clean off in minutes with their normal ship to ship weapons, and to blast that planet down to the core in hours.

Neither of these types of ships are unusually powerful in trek. The enterprise could fight several Galors by itself.

A borg cube not only survived everything a fleet of hundreds of federation ships, each, like the enterprise, more deadly than their Cardassian counterparts, could not wear down its defences with their combined firepower. Logic would suggest that a properly prepared borg cube could shrug off an exrterminatus bombardment that requires an imperial fleet's combined firepower for days. That ship was NOT one of their specialised warships. Those are presumably a lot tougher than the regular ones.

And don't even get me started on the destructive potential of a tractor beam that can hold the enterprise dead in space despite the insanely high amount of thrust its impulse engines can provide. Those things would easily be able to push against another ship with enough force to collapse it into a ball of scrap if they just used the amount of force it takes to counteract the enterprise going to full impulse and used it to squeeze instead of holding a ship in place. And if you are really mean, instead of just pushing uniformly with that force, you push in different directions on different parts of the ship to use shearing force, like giant scissors, to turn any imperial battleship to metal confeti in seconds without having to even punch through their voidshields. Or you could just nudge your target to liquify its crew with the accelleration.

>>1817

>AKMs

You need to lurk /k/

>>2157

Or just use windows defender for computer security protocols.

>>1793

Do you have a link to that? It sounds fun.

>>3958

Part of this series of writefaggotry

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Marcius_Flavius

>>1750 (OP)

They didnt want to.

TNG and movies did more damage to the Borg than Voyager ever did.

>>1752

The real reason they wont assimilate the Alpha Quadrant. They would puke it back up, and face rebellion among every drone as the Will of the Collective worked against it.

>>1754

It explains why the Borg only ever sent one ship. To be easily defeated.

>>1752

Unimatrix 0?