/qresearch/ - Q Research

==Fall 1978== -

The year Carlucci becomes CIA director

Pressler/Patterson meet with Adrian Rogers and W.A. Criswell. They know they have to take the presidency of the SBC if they want to affect change. Once you have the presidency nailed down, that person appoints all other leaders. If they can keep the presidency for 10 years, Pressler supposes that they can fundamentally change the SBC. They decide Rogers needs to be president. It was a last minute decision to run.

https://albertmohler.com/2006/06/14/the-southern-baptist-reformation-a-first-hand-account/

So, you have an ANTIFA-style takeover of the largest Protestant denomination of America with Rockefeller money. Why would the government even be interested? Well, let’s look at the fall out.

60% of baby Boomers are Baptist. It is the largest Protestant denomination in the US.

http://www.wordslingersok.com/2014/06/what-happened-to-the-southern-baptist-convention/

The highlight of the division was caused by the doctrine of “inerrancy.” If you didn’t believe that every single word of the Bible was 100% true, you were booted form the SBC. This is how they nullified their opponents.

How has the SBC changed: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

How fundamentalist Myths Changed the SBC: http://www.baptistlife.com/flick/Kingmaker%20Myth.htm

Pastor is now god.

In traditional Baptist thought all members of the church were seen as equal ministers with different spiritual gifts – a doctrine referred to as the priesthood of believers. The role of the pastor in this context was to preach and teach, to train the congregation for service, to care for the needs of the congregation, and to provide administrative coordination to the work of the church. Pastors were viewed as servants of the church.

The Patterson-Pressler coalition insists that the pastor is the unquestioned ruler of the church. W. A. Criswell said, "Lay leadership of the church is unbiblical when it weakens the pastor's authority as ruler of the church . . . a laity-led church will be a weak church anywhere on God's earth. The pastor is ruler of the church." In 1988 the Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution affirming that the pastor was the ruler of the church.

This new emphasis on pastoral authority marks a departure from the traditional Baptist teaching on the priesthood of every believer.

Source: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

Education turns to indoctrination:

Traditionally, Baptists expected seminary professors to expose their students to various theological viewpoints. Baptist teachers were viewed as facilitators who guided students as they studied the scriptures and conscientiously formed their own theological convictions. This approach was in harmony with the traditional Baptist understanding that every believer has the right and responsibility to interpret the scriptures under the direct illumination of the Holy Spirit. It also acknowledged that every believer is accountable directly to God for conscientiously interpreting scripture, forming convictions, and living by them.

The Patterson-Pressler coalition expects seminary professors to indoctrinate their students to a very narrow theological viewpoint. Adrian Rogers (the first SBC president elected by the Patterson- Pressler coalition) said, "If we say pickles have souls, they (seminary professors) better teach that pickles have souls." Seminary teachers who refused to comply were fired, sought employment elsewhere, or took early retirement. Their replacements are indoctrinators who have usurped the place of the Holy Spirit and now presume to make Southern Baptists accountable for living according to the interpretations and convictions of the Patterson-Pressler coalition.

Source: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

Establishing hierarchy through confessions

In Baptist thought doctrinal statements or confessions of faith never had authority over the individual conscience or over the local church. Southern Baptists in 1925 and 1963 stated, "Confessions are only guides in interpretation, having no authority over the conscience." However, in 2000 the Patterson-Pressler coalition stated that confessions are to be used as "instruments of doctrinal accountability."

To whom are Southern Baptists now accountable for their beliefs? Are lay people accountable to their pastors? Are local churches accountable to their associations? Are associations accountable to their state conventions? Are state conventions accountable to the national convention? This trend toward hierarchy violates the autonomy of local churches and the freedom of all believers to discern and follow God's will according to the dictates of their own consciences.

Source: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

Deep Political Involvement

Historically, Southern Baptists were strong advocates for church-state separation. We insisted that the state remain neutral on religious issues in order to protect liberty of conscience for religious minorities.

Baptists shaped public morality though the witness of the church rather than the through the power of the state. For more than sixty years, Southern Baptists have advocated this position through the work of the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs in Washington D.C.

W.A. Criswell stated that separation of church and state was the figment of some infidel's imagination.

The Patterson-Pressler coalition favors church-state accommodation. They intend to promote specific religious agendas through public policy and want religious majorities to have greater access to public funds to do so. The Patterson-Pressler coalition has defunded the Baptist Joint Committee and created an Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission to promote their accommodationist agenda in Washington D.C.

Source: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

Women are Marginalized

In 1845, when the SBC began, the role of women in society, church, and the family was rather restricted. In time, things begin to change. Among advocates for change were noted Baptist missionaries such as Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong. WMU was very instrumental in advancing the role of women in church life. By the 1960's, churches were calling women as committee chairs, deacons and ministers.

The Patterson-Pressler began a reversal of these developments. In 1984 the SBC passed a resolution stating that women were excluded from being deacons or pastors. They ignored examples like Phoebe the deaconess in Romans 16:1 and insisted that women must submit to men because a woman was the first to sin in the garden of Eden. In 1998 Southern Baptist called upon women to "graciously submit" to their husbands, ignoring the fact that Ephesians 5:21 calls for mutual submission in the Christian home. Two years later, the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message confession stated that women could not serve as pastors. All who work for the SBC as missionaries or as teachers in the seminaries must now affirm and teach these ideas about women.

Currently, in clear violation of local church autonomy, many associations are censuring or excluding churches that ordain women.

Source: http://www.centerforbaptiststudies.org/pamphlets/freedom/sbc.htm

Focus on youth:

Youth groups, camps, summer missions, IMB journey man programs all designed to separate children from their parents. This is especially disconcerting given that the architect of this movement is now being accused of pedophilia.

Focus on tithing:

Forget giving to whom you see fit. 10% of your income must go to the church or you are sinning, sinning, sinning.

Well, that’s nice, but the Baptists aren’t really being used by the cabal, right?

Well, let’s take a look, shall we?

Council for National Policy

In 1981 Tim LaHaye of the “Left Behind” Series fame, started a group called the Council for National Policy

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Council_for_National_Policy

Of which, Pressler, Patterson, and his son are members, which, by it’s own admittance strives to be the conservative version of the cabal’s Council on Foreign Relations.

“When Steve Baldwin, the executive director of an organization with the stale-as-old-bread name of the Council for National Policy, boasts that "we control everything in the world," he is only half-kidding.”

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=121170&page=1

List of members as of 2014: https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/cnp_redacted_final.pdf

A dig could also be done into the

Salem Media Group

Which runs most of the Christin radio stations in major cities. Pressler is a Board Member.

>>4072286

Incredible anon. I'm A firm believer of strict separation of church and state. Never any reason for religion to get involved in politics. Always leads to evil. Keep up the good work. Maybe we can have real separation of church and state.

>>4073897

Think Missionary > clown covers

Think Control Poopulation

control university > control pastor > control message > control thoughts > control actions

Complete Cabal Control

But good news….

A Half Hebrew Carpenter once wisely said

“You will know them by their fruit”

>>4103686

Amen

>>4072482

Your “expose” of Southern Baptist’s is too full of inaccuracies and innuendo to try to refute. I will offer this: I have been a Southern Baptist most of my 6 decades, and we were always very conservative, before and after your implications of CIA manipulation. Absolutely ludicrous.

But rather than debate you point by point, I will just give one example of how your research falls short: You state Southern Baptists have aligned themselves with U.N. organizations and go on to cite articles referencing “ National Baptists” for your support. If you will look on the “National Baptist” website, you will see that they are not the “Southern Baptist” denomination, but were formed to spread the gospel to their “motherland,” Africa, and are one of the most prominent of the four principally African-American Baptist denominations in America. They do seem to have more of a tolerance for progressive ideology.

If you want to see a representative example of a Southern Baptist who is bringing salt and light to this world, and upholding conservative Biblical values, which is what Southern Baptists have always stood for— look no further than Franklin Graham.

Sorry for your confusion, but if you spent some time getting to know Southern Baptists, I don’t think you would be trying to discredit them. May God help you see and spread truth instead of lies.

http://www.nationalbaptist.com/about-us/our-history/index.html

>>4234882

I have no idea what a "National Baptist" is, and never referred to National Baptists. I would also love for you to point to a place where I tied either "National Baptists" or "Southern Baptists" to U.N. Organizations.

Franklin Graham is a pedophile. I'm not sure you want him as your representative.

Pressler, also a pedophile, and Patterson changed the very fabric of the SBC (which is the Southern Baptist Convention… not the "National Baptist" whatever the F that is) changed the way the largest Protestant denomination in America functioned so that it could better utilize the dollars and political actions of the congregants.

But thanks for bumping the thread?

>>4072449

Ephesians 5…Always Always Always read the reference IN CONTEXT.

The beginning of the chapter discusses life among those in the dark (vs4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting…) . Then comes the context of verse 21 and FOLLOWING. [NASV] (I was tempted to leave the [q] reference in but I think they'll understand)

15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, 16 making the most of your time, because the days are evil. 17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; 20 always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; 21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ. (how sweet it would be if anons treated each other this way!)

Marriage Like Christ and the Church (conclusion=husband loves wife + willing to die for her [greatest love] and the wife is to respect her husband…look how far we have fallen)

22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

>>4072449 As for becoming a pastor read 1 Timothy 2 (all of it)

11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

How do I interpret this? Well, there is another verse where Paul says when we are weak, then we are strong (in the Lord). Mirrored, it seems if we are strong in ourselves then we are vulnerable. So how was the woman deceived? She was Adam's HELPER. She was to help him. Was it the apple biting, or was it pride in self, view of helping someone that made her STRONG IN HERSELF. Let's put bill and hill in the place of Adam and Eve. Same result. The woman thinks she is strong and is therefore the weaker. IMO the strong woman is a lie. The only right we really have is to burn in hell. It is by His grace that we kneel before Him and claim HIS righteousness. But I digress…a bit.

I am responding up to this point because that is where I am in reading. So far, if you do not prove your point that conservatism and the Word of God are in error, I will use my feminine gut feeling that you are in fact in error. BTW, I also pray with my head covered. It is the angels who protect us under the command of the Lord and there is no way I want to offend them while people are putting their lives on the line.

>>4072445

The pastor is ruler of the church. Nice wording. So I went to the sauce provided. Read here the only two resolutions of 1988 referring to ministry, neither of which proclaim the pastor as ruler. CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH.

Resolution On Ministerial Integrity

1988 - San Antonio, Texas

WHEREAS, In times past the ministerial vocation carried with it an aura of respect and deep admiration by the general public; and

WHEREAS, Both the Christian community and secular society expect Christian leaders to be responsible followers of Christ with a high level of integrity (1 Timothy 3:2).

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That we, the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in San Antonio, Texas, June 14-16, 1988, pray for those in the family of God who are in positions of ministerial leadership and moral example, and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we encourage the daily cultivation of a strong spiritual foundation to combat our personal tendency toward sin; and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That we call upon all Southern Baptists who serve in ministry-related leadership capacities to be aware constantly of the example of their lives, and to maintain biblical standards of honesty, fidelity, and integrity.

RESOLUTION ON COMMENDING BIVOCATIONAL MINISTERS

WHEREAS, The Apostle Paul served the Lord bivocationally; and

WHEREAS, Bivocational ministers serving in church work and secular employment have for many years been effective and fruitful in Southern Baptist life; and

WHEREAS, Bivocational ministers are not part-time ministers, but rather dual-role ministers who have a full church ministry and a marketplace ministry; and

WHEREAS, Almost 10,000 Southern Baptist churches are presently served by bivocational pastors; and

WHEREAS, Our Home Mission Board is focusing attention on our churches using bivocational pastors; and

THEREFORE, be it RESOLVED, That we, the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in San Antonio, Texas, June 14-16, 1988, affirm the role of the bivocational minister as one used of God in the work of His kingdom.

Be it further RESOLVED, That this Convention encourage Southern Baptists to provide encouragement and enhancement to bivocational ministry as we work to carry our Bold Mission Thrust; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That this Convention encourage students preparing for church-related vocations to be alert to the option of choosing a second vocation as an enabler for ministry; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That Southern Baptist churches be encouraged to consider strengthening their programs, ministry, and outreach through the use of bivocational ministers; and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That the churches sponsoring new congregations be encouraged to utilize bivocational ministers to initiate new work.

Resolution On Restoration Of Trust In Local Churches

1988 - San Antonio, Texas

WHEREAS, There is an ever-increasing number of our local Southern Baptist churches experiencing conflict and inner-church power struggles; and

WHEREAS, This is in direct contrast to the teachings of the head of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ, "By this shall men know you are my disciples, if you have love one for another" (John 13:35); and

WHEREAS, Love involves trust, and our choice not to trust one another has diminished our witness and our mission at home and around the world; and

WHEREAS, There are alternative strategies for reconciliation rather than church/pastor/staff dismissals, such as: A reaffirmation of biblical methods (Matthew 18:15-17) in resolving conflicts; a commitment to patience and trust; and requesting third-party consultation.

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED by the 131st Convention of Southern Baptists, meeting in San Antonio, Texas, June 14-16, 1988, that we pledge ourselves to diligent intercessory prayer: (1) For our local churches in conflict and in need of spiritual healing; (2) for pastors and church staff members who have been dismissed for whatever reason; (3) for the Convention's Involuntary Termination Work Group seeking to develop a strategy to educate and assist local churches and church leadership in biblical concepts of conflict resolution; and (4) for our testimony to the world that they may see Christ through our relationships.

>>4072474

Yes many churches, including independent Baptist churches using the SCHOFIELD reference bible are pre-tribulationalists.

I am not. I am a post-tribber. :) Grew up in an independent Baptist church and learned to do my own studies and mainly, to look up every reference while listening to a pastor and read the chapter referenced and if need be, the one preceding.

Can't read 1 Thessalonians without 2 Thessalonians. The resurrection of the dead is the KEY.

>>4072482

Don't think they meant children do not have fundamental human rights. They were probably saying a child would not understand their legal rights.

I know a man with the IQ of a 6th grader who is now in prison for life without parole in a state that has that law. He didn't understand what it meant to plead guilty. His court appointed lawyer lied to him and told him he would go to a psych hospital not prison for life. That was over 20 years ago. The system is changing for the mentally disabled but what about those who were charged before there were "friendly courts!"

There are child friendly courts, right? Well, according to you there should only be adult courts.

>>4072488

yeah, getting Christians to give is easy and they should be made aware of the dangers of unicef and other major organizations. Do you think the Cabal told the members what they were up to? Why aren't you? They are your brothers and sisters in Christ, are they not?

>>4072491

Yup, there is a correlation, but it is not a CAUSE. There is a good possibility that someone has been compromised. Are the Baptists preaching or immigrating orphans? Have you checked?

>>4072496

Have you ever considered why Satan would target the Jews in every conceivable manner? Have you considered that Satan wants to rule the world and will in fact get his 7 minutes (relatively speaking)? Do you ever wonder why Satan gets this time? Why? Why would a righteous God allow Satan to rule?

Finally someone is paying attention:

Joy Evans Ryder was 15 years old when she says her church youth director pinned her to his office floor and raped her.

“It’s OK. It’s OK,” he told her. “You don’t have to be afraid of anything.”

He straddled her with his knees, and she looked off into the corner, crying and thinking, “This isn’t how my mom said it was supposed to be.”

The youth director, Dave Hyles, was the son of the charismatic pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana, considered at the time the flagship for thousands of loosely affiliated independent fundamental Baptist churches and universities.

youngjoy

Joy Evans Ryder, pictured in this image from a yearbook.

COURTESY JOY EVANS RYDER

At least three other teen girls would accuse Hyles of sexual misconduct, but he never faced charges or even sat for a police interview related to the accusations. When he got in trouble, Hyles was able to simply move on, from one church assignment to the next.

Hyles’ flight to safety has become a well-worn path for ministers in the independent fundamental Baptist movement.

For decades, women and children have faced rampant sexual abuse while worshiping at independent fundamental Baptist churches around the country. The network of churches and schools has often covered up the crimes and helped relocate the offenders, an eight-month Star-Telegram investigation has found.

More than 200 people — current or former church members, across generations — shared their stories of rape, assault, humiliation and fear in churches where male leadership cannot be questioned.

“It’s a philosophy — it’s flawed,” said Stacey Shiflett, an independent fundamental Baptist pastor in Dundalk, Maryland. “The philosophy is you don’t air your dirty laundry in front of everyone. Pastors think if they keep it on the down-low, it won’t impact anyone. And then the other philosophy is it’s wrong to say anything bad about another preacher.”

The Star-Telegram discovered at least 412 allegations of sexual misconduct in 187 independent fundamental Baptist churches and their affiliated institutions, spanning 40 states and Canada.

https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article222576310.html

https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article222576430.html

One thing does bind the churches that face abuse accusations: a culture that uses fear to control and gives men in power the role of unquestioned and ultimate authority. In that environment, abuse has visited scores of fundamental Baptist churches.

And many abusers have escaped consequence-free, often with the help of the pastor in charge.

“A lot of times, it’s phone calls and meetings, because I mean, generally speaking, these type of pressures are not memorialized in writing, OK?” said David Gibbs III, a Florida attorney who represents victims of church abuse. “So we’re not talking like, here’s the text, here’s the email, here’s the letter: ‘Dear abuse victim and your parents, don’t go to the police.’ So there’s a lot of quiet pressure.”

Interviews and documents obtained by the Star-Telegram show three main tactics used by the church to transition abusers to new jobs and hide their actions:

▪ Pastors ship suspected abusers to other churches or church-affiliated schools led by one of their friends from Bible college or the speaking circuit. Both have full knowledge of what happened, according to former members and pastors familiar with the movement.

▪ Pastors recommend a suspected abuser for a new job without informing the church or school about the allegations. In a culture where well-known pastors are elevated to near-godlike status, their recommendations are weighty.

▪ In other cases, pastors pressure victims to keep quiet, telling them they’ll ruin the alleged abuser’s ministry or the pastors simply don’t believe the accusations. They can also bring in a law firm that specializes in the independent fundamental Baptist movement. Victims told the Star-Telegram that lawyers, working on behalf of the church, have tried to intimidate them into silence.

Even if criminal charges are brought against a church leader, he might be allowed to continue in ministry. Facing charges that he had sex with a 14-year-old, a pastor left his Indiana church for Miami, where he told his new congregation that the girl was “promiscuous.” Though he pleaded guilty to felony stalking in 2009, he didn’t leave the church until 2014. He maintains his innocence.

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/living/religion/article222576430.html

W.C. Fields, advocate for a free Baptist press, dies at 96 (Dec 2, 2018)

When he retired, Fields described a 30-year period beginning in 1949 as “the golden age of the Southern Baptist Convention,” marked by rapid growth in all directions and a unity evidenced by widespread support for Bold Mission Thrust, a 25-year strategic plan to share the gospel with every person on earth by the year 2000.

That vision ended in “tragedy,” he recalled, when “dissension, discord, disagreement, disruptions, disputations and divisions” struck the denomination in 1979. “Never in our history has the devil won such a clear and sweeping victory,” Fields described the turmoil and disarray introduced “by an unrelenting, shameless takeover by a narrowly partisan political group thinly disguised now and then by pious phraseology.”

Fields was describing a movement remembered these days in Southern Baptist Convention circles as the “conservative resurgence.” Led by layman Paul Pressler and theologian Paige Patterson, the stated objective was to head off liberalizing influences in the denomination by seizing control of institutions of intellectual authority.

With an unofficial motto “tell the truth and trust the people,” Baptist Press covered activities on both sides of the controversy in detail, often to the displeasure of conservatives gradually winning majorities on trustee boards overseeing Baptist work, including Baptist Press.

Fields’ successor at Baptist Press, Al Shackelford, was elected by a vote of 32-26, after asking for a year to prove to doubters that he would cover the news in a way fair to the conservative side. Three years later Shackelford was fired, along with news editor Dan Martin, sparking censorship concerns that led to formation of Associated Baptist Press, forerunner of Baptist News Global, in 1990.

Under the title “SBC Journalism: Besieged!” Fields described a “brazen, shameless attempt by fundamentalists to intimidate, bully and undermine Southern Baptist journalists and their publications.”

Quoted by Molly Worthen in Apostles of Reason: The Crisis of Authority in American Evangelism, Fields argued that the campaign to co-opt church media was not merely a political tactic but posed a threat to the core of Baptist identity.

https://baptistnews.com/article/w-c-fields-advocate-for-a-free-baptist-press-dead-at-96/#.XBAfcC3Mzb8

>>4260066 Therefore ALL Baptists are evil just like ALL Jews are evil???????? Satan not only wants to divide the anons, he especially wants to divide the holy ones (O.T. and saints-N.T.). So, where are you in all this?

The damned come in many flavors and sizes.

The of Christ come in only one.

>>4072286

>Anon still trying to figure out whether or not Christ meant "Southern Baptist" when he said he was building the Church on Peter.

Martin Luther was a genius.

Martin Luther started something that was amazing for the body of Christ.

Almost every denomination is now comp'd

Martin Luther has been turning over in his grave for a very, VERY long time. Just wait until you find out about Billy Graham.

https://youtu.be/XHl0HRQYl7U?t=3593

I wanted to share this becuase I believe it relevant to the dicussion. The veracity of this testimony is

questionable, as I have no idea whom is speaking. That being said, there are some high indictments in this record.

The witness starts out tying Rome/Vatican to the spiritual seat of the illuminati/cabal. At 47:33, implicates high ranking military CO/XO's, in specific regard to Intelligence div. Where I have tried to start the video, at 59:56 the Christian church, Baptist among.

I'm not here to cause strife. This video popped up on my feed, I watched it and found it prudent to the topic. I was born, Baptisied and confirmed in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, I love the Lord Jesus Christ and I open the Bible everyday.