/miku/ - Miku

I reserve the right to veto a proposition if it conforms at least one of these three cases:

It violates the global rule.

It is unfair or it does not make any sense. (e.g. 'Kaito is not allowed..')

It changes the board's topic directly. (e.g. '/miku/ - The Venezuelan footballer' or '/miku/ - The Estonian village')

Anything else is fine, just be sure to make your proposal as clear and concise as you can.

(Edit: From the next post on I will only use the capcode when necessary.)

The first thing I want to propose is a change of rules. I propose the following as base rules:

1. All threads must be related to Vocaloid. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed.

2. No spamming, spambots or flooding.

3. Shitposting, trolling and baiting are not allowed.

Remember to spoiler all NSFW content and to check the catalog before creating a new thread.

Opinions are welcome.

>>14670

I'm fine with these rules.

Consider making the upstairs and Miku Monday threads circulatory. This function makes it so the first posts are removed after the bump-limit has been reached. This way a thread is consistent, without being permanent.

Especially useful for the Miku Monday thread, considering the OP.

Purely for the sake of efficiency I also recommend decreasing maximum pages.

As for collaborating with other boards: there are a number of smaller boards focused on specific fanbases and niche interests. I imagine that these boards would enjoy some companionship.

This is a stretch, but enabling dice could lead to some roleplaying hilarity. Not promising anything, though.

>>14670

Considering the most prolific threads on this board, it might be wise to formulate the first rule as "All threads must be related to Vocaloid or community. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed."

On top of that: considering the small scale and friendliness of the userbase, a note could be included promoting self-moderation. The only moderation I have ever seen on here have been blatantly obvious off-topic posts.

>>14713

I'd correct it to "All threads must be related to Vocaloid and its community". Using the word "or" makes a literal interpretation of that rule too vague to implement.

Enabling dice sounds like a good idea.

Finally, do you have any suggestions for smaller boards to collaborate with?

>>14713

>Consider making the upstairs and Miku Monday threads circulatory. This function makes it so the first posts are removed after the bump-limit has been reached. This way a thread is consistent, without being permanent.

>Especially useful for the Miku Monday thread, considering the OP.

That's a good idea, but since the archive stopped archiving /miku/, I'd wait until the new archive system is implemented before I make them cyclical.

>Purely for the sake of efficiency I also recommend decreasing maximum pages.

I think decreasing it to 10 would be fine, but I would be against decreasing it beyond that.

>As for collaborating with other boards: there are a number of smaller boards focused on specific fanbases and niche interests. I imagine that these boards would enjoy some companionship.

Maybe we could list boards that might be willing to promote or form a ring with us.

>This is a stretch, but enabling dice could lead to some roleplaying hilarity. Not promising anything, though.

I don't see much use for this on /miku/, but I'm not against it.

>On top of that: considering the small scale and friendliness of the userbase, a note could be included promoting self-moderation. The only moderation I have ever seen on here have been blatantly obvious off-topic posts.

If by self-moderation you mean ignoring threads/posts that you don't like, and report those that break the rules then I'll add it.

>>14714

>"All threads must be related to Vocaloid and its community"

I'll change it to that.

Made some changes:

1. All threads must be related to Vocaloid and its community. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed.

2. No spamming, spambots or flooding.

3. Shitposting, trolling and baiting are not allowed.

Remember to spoiler all NSFW content and to check the catalog before creating a new thread.
Self-moderate. Ignore posts/threads that you don't like, and report those that break the rules.

>>14687

Any specific reason as to why "Disallow combining characters" is enabled and "Format math between $$" is disabled?

>>14716

Perhaps also add the reminder "All posts should be in English", even though it should be obvious. It's difficult to enforce rule 1 and 3 if you can't understand the post.

>>14723

I'd prefer if the rules were kept as brief as possible. What is there right now is fine in my opinion.

We don't want to overlegislate, especially since that has already proven to push users away.

>>14724

I agree.

>>14716

I think rule 3 could be replaced with a simple "Be civil." The essence is just to preserve a friendly board culture. If you make a list, there are bound to be omissions. The current list of odious posting habits overlooks flaming.

>>14716

Also the "spoiler NSFW" rule should be listed as a rule and given a number like the others, not buried as a "reminder" where it is more likely to be overlooked.

>>14726

'Be civil' works as a guideline, but isn't enforceable.

Perhaps I could change it to:

3. Do not post with the intention of maliciously disrupting or derailing a thread (e.g. trolling, baiting, flaming, etc.)

>>14727

I'm not sure if we should to make it an enforceable rule. If a NSFW image is posted without spoilers, the simple solution would be to spoiler it (as volunteer).

>>14728

Maybe.

>>14729

>3. Do not post with the intention of maliciously disrupting or derailing a thread (e.g. trolling, baiting, flaming, etc.)

The word maliciously isn't necessary here.

>>14730

It does feel redundant.

3. Do not post with the intention of disrupting or derailing a thread (e.g. trolling, baiting, flaming, etc.)

>>14731

The wording misses uncivil posters who don't derail threads (e.g. someone whose posts are mostly on-topic but who calls everyone he disagrees with a "faggot").

>>14729

>I'm not sure if we should to make it an enforceable rule. If a NSFW image is posted without spoilers, the simple solution would be to spoiler it (as volunteer).

Just the fact that something is a rule doesn't mean it has to be enforced by banning. It should still be listed with the others. I think it's a clear mistake to draft a list of rules and then knowingly not list all the rules.

It also might need to be clarified that rule 1 applies to images. We don't want on-topic posts that are accompanied by pony image macros or random porn images.

>>14737

So rather than "all threads", it should read "all content".

>>14738

Not to cavil, but "all content" might be over-inclusive. Individual posts in social threads often wouldn't pass the test of being vocaloid related. I would recommend "all threads and all images."

>>14732

It would count as disrupting in most cases.

>>14733

>>14737

I still think that it's better to mention it that way. There's just countless other unspoken rules that are constantly enforced in some way:

Post in English

Spoiler NSFW

Do not create duplicate threads

Vocaloid derivative works and characters are allowed (Yowane Haku, BRS)

Vocaloid image posting is allowed (As in Upstairs, MM and Teto threads)

Non-Vocaloid 3D is not allowed

Guro is not allowed

Low quality posting is not allowed

Being obnoxious is not allowed

Etc.

We can't just mention all of them. Let's just add "Lurk before posting".

>>14740

>I still think that it's better to mention it that way. There's just countless other unspoken rules that are constantly enforced in some way:

I agree. If the rules seem too strict or complex we might scare people away.

>>14740

To be clear, I have recommended since the previous rules thread to let the rules remain implicit, but half-measures are worse than both alternatives. Either write out the rules or don't. We're discussing how to draft the rule against "low quality" or "obnoxious" posting, but if there are other rules those need to be listed too. If you're not allowed to post guro, it should be a rule.

>>14740

I also oppose any rule, implicit or otherwise, against posting in Japanese.

>>14743

In most cases that one of those unspoken rules is broken in bad faith the main rules that I proposed could be enforced against them.

>>14744

I didn't say that those rules didn't have exceptions. For instance, if guro was kept in a single thread I would not delete it.

In case that we really need to, we could revise the rules if a loophole gets exploited.

We could also add a final note:

NOTE: OWNER AND VOLUNTEERS MAY DELETE THREADS/POSTS THAT DO NOT CONFORM WITH THE BOARD ETIQUETTE

So all the unspoken rules get to stay implicit yet enforced from the rules page.

>>14748

I disagree with unrestricted discretion or impromptu rules revisions.

There really aren't *that* many bases to cover.

>>14749

To enumerate them informally:

1. topicality rule

2. spam rule

3. civility rule

4. spoiler rule

5. English language rule?

6. Extreme fetish (e.g. guro) rule?

We have only the questions of whether 5 or 6 are needed and how to phrase these rules.

I'll just stick with my original idea. This is my final draft:

1. All threads must be related to Vocaloid and its community. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed.

2. No spamming, spambots or flooding.

3. Do not post with the intention of disrupting or derailing a thread (e.g. trolling, baiting, flaming, etc.)

Remember to spoiler all NSFW content and to check the catalog before creating a new thread. 
Ignore posts/threads that you don't like, and report those that break the rules.

Like others said, I want to keep it as short as possible so people will be more likely to follow them and not be scared away by them. Almost every other board (even ones with dozens of rules) enforce the unspoken English language rule yet never mention it on their rules page.

If you disagree, you can make your own set, either from mine or from scratch.

>>14752

Draft one based on your rules with some revisions:

1. Post only threads and images related to Vocaloid and its community. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed.

2. Do not spam, flood or make automated posts

3. Do not hurl insults or post with the intention of disrupting or derailing a thread (e.g. trolling, baiting, flaming, etc.)

4. Mark all Not Safe For Work images as spoilers.

5. Post in English so the above rules can be enforced.

Remember to check the catalog before creating a new thread. Please report rule-violating posts and refrain from giving them other forms of attention.

I would prefer to allow posting in Japanese, but perhaps it is unfeasible. I defer to the mod on this point, but I think the rule should be spelled out.

Jeez, this thread moves fast.

>>14716

>>14714

The point for "or" over "and" was to include threads such as upstairs, where with "and" it is excluded.

>>14724

Opposite is true for boards such as /svidya/. I wouldn't worry about the amount of rules and more so aim for succinctness.

>>14729

>>14730

>>14731

>>14732

>>14733

>>14738

>>14739

ohboyitbegins

Legally speaking, you have to include maliciousness for the sake of exactness. Me posting something silly in a thread could also be considered disrupting - and if it is popular enough, it will derail the thread. But is that unwanted? Not necessarily. If you want to be formatically correct I recommend including referring to intend.

That said, I doubt it is necessary. I understand that the entire point of this thread is making preparations, but 1) you'll never get it right and 2) being too stringent makes it seem like this is a community of sticklers - which is absolutely not the case. This is part of the reason why I suggested the self moderation note: it implies camaraderie.

>>14744

I agree with this, if only for the comedy factor.

>>14748

>>14749

"Rule 0" works great in small communities, as it determines the tone of the moderation. See also Customs in law. Up to you though.

>>14752

Seems fine to me. Succinct and nicely written.

>>14740

>Low quality posting

>Being obnoxious

Would someone give some examples to these? Or are we going to ban people who can't spell for "low quality" posts?

>>14754

Here's the final draft version. I nominate these rules for whatever voting might take place.

I removed the examples from rule three because they were just a restatement of the rule itself in internet jargon.

I removed the note about using the report function in the interest of brevity. It's not as important on a small board where you can view all recent posts. It can be added in later if needed since it's just a reminder, not a rule.

1. Only post threads and images related to Vocaloid and its community. Similar topics like UTAU and CeVIO are also allowed.

2. Do not spam, flood or make automated posts.

3. Do not hurl insults or post with the intention of disrupting or derailing a thread.

4. Mark all Not Safe For Work images as spoilers.

5. Post in English so the above rules can be enforced.

Remember to check the catalog before creating a new thread.

>>14756

Low quality posting:

Completely unintelligible posts like "asdffbhh0c"

Being obnoxious:

Repeating the same post over and over again in one thread.

Not actual, exact rules but examples to illustrate a point. In cases that matter they would count as spamming or trolling.

>>14757

Looks good, but the English rule feels unnecessary.

I don't think we need to include the English rule. It isn't pragmatic: first of all, you need to be able to read English to read that rule. Secondly, it could be interpreted to mean that we're excluding all other languages, including Japanese as one user mentioned earlier.

In my opinion, it's best left as an unwritten convention; we all post in English anyway, and some users have used Japanese on occasion.

I'd prefer to have NSFW left as a notice rather than formalised as a rule, but it's not a deal breaker.

>>14757 seems fine as long as we remove Rule 5.

If no further changes are made after an hour, I'll make a post with options to vote for >>14752 , >>14757 or other.

All other proposals until now:

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -0

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -0

Dice 2 -0

LaTeX 1 -0

(Numbers in parenthesis are posts that like the idea but aren't votes themselves.)

They will need at least two votes in favor (counting the proposal post) to be effected. That way, only ideas that people have shown interest in will be implemented.

The only proposals I don't agree with are the cyclical option and decreasing max pages.

Cyclical could make it a pain if you want to go back and look through the old threads for whatever reason. The archive actually working could alleviate that to some extent but it could still be a pain.

Decreasing the Max. pages just seems kind of irrelevant, it seems like we would just be making space for the sake of making space.

I'm not sure what we would use LaTeX for, and I guess the dice could be used rarely like oekaki.

>>14824

I'll interpret this as votes against cyclical and max. pages.

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -1

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -1

Dice 2 -0

LaTeX 1 -0

>>14828

I vote against cycling MM and upstairs

>>14832

I cannot find another post from your post history, sorry. I'd like you to link me to a post you've made before.

Vote for a new set of rules for /miku/:

>>14752

>>14757

Other

>>14838

Both rule sets are good enough for this board, but I'll still vote for mine: >>14752

>>14838

I'll go with >>14752

>>14838

That makes three.

>>14752

>>14838

For now, I'd go with >>14752

I'm also against cycles and page reduction.

>>14845

Updated:

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -2

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -2

Dice 2 -0

LaTeX 1 -0

>>14846

Should have thought about it earlier, but I'm okay with the dice, and indifferent about LaTeX.

>>14847

Alright:

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -2

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -2

Dice 3 -0

LaTeX 1 -0

>>14837

Sorry, that was me posting from my phone.

>>14838

As for the ruleset, I vote for >>14752.

>>14852

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll add a link to 14838 to your post so votes can be counted more easily.

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -3

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -3

Dice 3 -0

LaTeX 1 -0

I vote for these rules. >>14752

This is a small board and we haven't had many problems. I think these rules are sufficient enough to deal with these problems.

I do believe planning ahead is good thing but I feel making to many rules trying to predict future problems is too draconian.

I think that leaving some breathing room for board culture is a good thing. I think we are all here because we love Vocaloids/Utau so lets just take it easy and have fun.

Also

I'm against Cyclical MM/Upstairs and Decrease Max. pages at this time.

I'm ok with Dice and LaTeX.

>>14908

Adding your vote to >>14838

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -4

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -4

Dice 4 -0

LaTeX 2 -0

I enabled dice rolling and math formatting so you can test it.

They will only stay if they aren't voted against enough times.

I have two more ideas that I want to suggest:

A faq.html with questions such as

>What is Vocaloid?

>Where can I discover new Vocaloid songs?

>Where can I buy Vocaloid albums?

etc.

A rec.html with a list of recommended albums and producers.

>>14915

This isn't a good way to tally: dice is an optional feature that is easy to ignore by not using. To my understanding it also uses very little resources. There is little reason not to enable it. So in my mind it is better to enable it and wait for somebody to complain, as the people who dislike it are logically in the minority.

Same for LaTeX, except that it can be exploited to spam and is more niche.

If you want us to do a vote, you might as well create a strawpoll. The weaknesses of the system are compensated by the community being small and friendly - id est, I highly doubt anybody would exploit them. Furthermore, a voting system also discourages alternatives, as it implies a (false) measure of factuality.

It is commendable that you want to do it tough, democratic way, but I feel mere diplomacy would serve. The community is fraternal, meaning that: if somebody disagrees with the moderation, the rules or anything else, it is unlikely they are discouraged to notify somebody in the community. And the community is small, resulting in: this person knowing authority or being close to it and their complaint being picked up where it matters.

In short: although impressive, 'this' can be done less intensive and more effective.

>>14967

This is a good idea, considering there is the occasional passerby who has these questions. It'd be wise, in my mind, to add this faq page to the board announcement at the top of the page.

As for the recommendation page, I endorse the idea wholeheartedly, but would like to suggest an alternative execution. Rather than making a page, it might be fun to make a wiki specifically for albums /miku/ prefers. Similar to alltimevrecommendations.wikidot.com This way certain people can focus on specific albums (such as the 'loid, or genre) and subjectivity is implied rather than being a connotation. Afterwards the URL can be added to the board announcement.

I will look into this.

>>14977

>To my understanding it also uses very little resources. There is little reason not to enable it.

>Same for LaTeX, except that it can be exploited to spam and is more niche.

True, which is why I've enabled them. That and because the features (particularly the dice) proved popular. >>14956 still applies.

>It'd be wise, in my mind, to add this faq page to the board announcement at the top of the page.

All board pages would be mentioned in the board announcement, yes.

>>14977

>Rather than making a page, it might be fun to make a wiki specifically for albums /miku/ prefers. Similar to alltimevrecommendations.wikidot.com This way certain people can focus on specific albums (such as the 'loid, or genre) and subjectivity is implied rather than being a connotation. Afterwards the URL can be added to the board announcement.

I remember a thread were some anon said that they'd make a page with album recommendations. I don't think they ever made it. Making a wiki for this is not a bad idea, but it might take some time to make. I'd vote for this, but I need to be sure that people will actually work on it.

>>14984

It is out of your hands, so you needn't worry about it.

>>15003

Okay, I think I understand now. How about this?

We first make a placeholder rec.html with basic recommendations while the wiki is being made. If /miku/ anons want to work on the wiki, we can make a thread here for it too. And, as soon as it's finished (or usable), we'd add the wiki to the board announcement beside 'rules' and 'faq'.

I propose to delete the old rules thread since it's not vocaloid related and now irrelevant.

Also I vote against Latex (and abstain on all the other proposals). It's cool but nobody can even think of a use for it on /miku/ and there have been exploits related to its implementation on chans in the past.

>>15046

>Also I vote against Latex (and abstain on all the other proposals). It's cool but nobody can even think of a use for it on /miku/ and there have been exploits related to its implementation

In that case, I'll vote against it too.

Since users have mentioned that there have been exploits related to the LaTeX option, I've decided to veto it. I also disabled the option.

In the mean time, the old rules thread has been locked. It will be deleted if the deletion proposal is successful.

>>15045

>>15046

I agree and also vote to delete the old rules thread.

I also vote to delete the old thread.

>>15063

>>15066

Noted.

Rules;

>>14752 6

>>14757 1

Misc:

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1(1) -3

Decrease Max. pages 1(1) -3

Dice 4 -0

LaTeX 2 -2

faq.html 2 -0

rec.wiki 2 -0

Delete old rules thread 3 -0

(Collaboration with other boards still pending; needs to be more specific.)

Also related to the board settings are the board tags. Boards can have up to 5 tags.

Current tags are:

###miku###

###vocaloid###

###music###

/miku/ is notably the second most active music board out of 32,.

>>15073

Add Utau and Voice Synthesizer Software

I vote for adding ###music-video### to the board tags.

For board tags, the two most voted tags will be added. I will also give an option to keep /miku/ with only its current tags.

Board tags:

(Yes 2, No 0)

utau 1

voice-synthesizer-software 1

music-video 1

(Edit: You can vote for up to two different tags)

>>15245

I vote for utau and music-video

>>15245

Utau and voice-synthesizer-software.

>>15245

utau and music-video

>>15247

>>15249

>>15252

Tags:

(Yes 5, No 0)

utau 4

music-video 3

voice-synthesizer-software 2

The Ideas thread is over.

Thanks to everyone for their ideas, proposals and votes.

Rules;

>>14752 6

>>14757 1

Misc:

Cyclical MM/Upstairs 1 -3

Decrease Max. pages 1 -3

Dice 4 -0

LaTeX 2 -2

faq.html 2 -0

rec.wiki 2 -0

Delete old rules thread 3 -0

Tags:

(Yes 5, No 0)

utau 4

music-video 3

voice-synthesizer-software 2

Rules;

>>14752 6

Misc:

Dice 4 -0

faq.html 2 -0

rec.wiki 2 -0

Delete old rules thread 3 -0

Tags:

(Yes 5)

utau 4

music-video 3

The FAQ page and Recommendation pages will be done on the meta thread.

Discussion about board rings, affiliations and the like also remains open on the meta thread.

Thread fix.