[–]▶ No.8793>>8797 >>8798 >>9135 >>10296 >>10398 >>10421 >>11429 >>11956 >>12244 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Is it cringeworthy for a woman to tell a man who saved her life and her daughter's life that he's "a good man" then kissing and fucking him right after? Does it smack too much of "nice guy" self-insert fantasy? Cause I wrote it and looked at it and cringed. I'm not a fedora dude at all but it really reads like "lol if you do nice things for women they'll fuck you" bullshit.
There's even decent chemistry between these two characters. I just can't write this part without cringing.
Help.
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▶ No.8794>>8816
it depends on what you're writing.
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▶ No.8797
>>8793 (OP)
>Does it smack too much of "nice guy" self-insert fantasy?
Not necessarily, if there's been chemistry between the two, he's not acting like a nice guy and the woman actually has something resembling a personality.
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▶ No.8798>>8800 >>12949
>>8793 (OP)
If you read it and cringed, then it needs to be changed. You're the only one who matters in your writing, unless you're like the GRRM types who are just writing for money.
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▶ No.8800>>8805
>>8798
>unless you're like the GRRM types who are just writing for money.
You think GRRM is doing it just for the money? How come? I'm not objecting to it, but I'm curious.
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▶ No.8801>>8816
>There's even decent chemistry between these two characters.
You have the idea right here. It is not enough for you as an author to simply state that, you have to show it in the story. Motivation? She may just be looking for a husband, and some stability. A idealized hero of a sort, though not a cinematic one. A display of dramatic heroism is icing on the cake, etc.
If you are cringing, something is not right. I would suspect you are imposing yourself on the character. You don't really know what she wants, nor who she is. Write a scene, or rewrite a few scenes, from her point of view. That's not an easy answer by the way, be prepared for a rocky bastard of a writing session. You may or may not end up using these scenes in the final story, it's worth doing even if they never see the light of day.
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▶ No.8805>>8811
>>8800
Well his literature is shit, so if he's actually writing for himself, then he has truly awful taste.
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▶ No.8811>>8812 >>12950
>>8805
I enjoyed what I read of ASOIAF, that being the first and one half of the second book because the brilliant publisher decided to split them up in my country. What's wrong with it?
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▶ No.8812>>8828
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▶ No.8816>>8831 >>8835 >>10043
>>8794
>>8801
Alright I'll explain a little further. Because I have some pretty shitty experiences with women most of which are my own fault. I learned my lesson just in time to lose all motivation to talk to them.
Basically this woman's backstory is, she was married off to an albino dude at age 17 to make her family rich, was treated like the subservient wife for 8 years, never loved him, had all her girlish dreams ruined, etc..
Then he died and her daughter went missing when they attacked, and she barely escaped with her husband's friend who was semi-responsible for the missing daughter because he made mistakes.
Fast forward to them living in a nearby village, big-time protagonist #1 wanders in and after a while they go back to the village to find the girl. After some sneaking around and shooting, they find her and go back, except husband's friend dies.
Later the other village gets BTFO and protagonist and woman flee into forest This is where they hook up, while out trying to hunt with barely any knowledge how to do so.
She says how protagonist #1 is a good guy because he had no stake in finding her daughter, he did it just to be kind (protagonist #1 did it to convince himself he could still do heroic things after he got absolutely rekt and tried to rape a woman while dying but that's a whole nother story), and that her husband's friend did it to assuage his guilt. Says she respects him and wishes he hadn't died but that protagonist #1 is the one who did something truly selfless. Then they start making out and fuck in the woods.
From her point of view, I think part of what drives her love for protagonist #1 is her lack of experience with actually decent men. She was in a loveless marriage since her adolescence, so latching onto the first man she is somewhat attracted to kind of makes sense to me.
Her passion for him becomes important later when she defends her children like momma bear on steroids.
I am rewriting the section right now because I think I found the parts actually making me cringe, once I finish it I will pastebin the short section (~500 words) and you can tell me what you think.
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▶ No.8828>>8832
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▶ No.8831>>8836 >>8840
>>8816
>tried to rape a woman while dying
who of the two was dying?
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▶ No.8832
>>8828
so they probably did the same in all non- english speaking europe.
i'm very glad i bought the paperbacks in english that btw cost less than one of the fractions of the book.
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▶ No.8835>>8840
>>8816
>basically this woman's backstory
As an anon have stated, write it down. If this is going to be something in your head and not in the book, readers might get confused or cringe like you.
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▶ No.8836
>>8831
Is your reading comprehension that bad ? If it were the woman who was dying, it would have been worded as "tried to rape a dying woman." Obviously it's the attempted rapist who's on the verge of death.
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▶ No.8840>>8893
>>8831
He was dying of a Ebola-ish zombie-ish disease that had a 90% death rate. He realized he had to pass on his genes before he died because his genetic abilities needed to be passed on because of some destiny "chosen one" stuff that turned out to be garbage. Tried to rape a woman in the next room, one of the female soldiers they were hiding underground with. She wakes up and he is weak as fuck from the disease so he gets BTFO and ends up exiled because of it.
>>8835
I'll make sure to make it clearer. It's given out in bits and pieces. Like when the guy first arrives at town he learns a bit about her, learns more while they are sneaking around the ruined town looking for daughter, learns more after they hook up and she tells him how shitty her wedding night was.
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▶ No.8893>>8960
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▶ No.8960>>8961
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▶ No.8961>>9072
>>8960
The written scene. Pretty plz :*
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▶ No.9072>>9175 >>9179
>>8961
http://pastebin.com/MVAvGw7T
Here. It's still pretty autistic, but I haven't worked on it in a while.
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▶ No.9135>>9182
>>8793 (OP)
The sex as a reward is unnatural. Have them kiss and embrace, then maybe an innuendo if it fits the mood.
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▶ No.9175>>9177 >>9179 >>9182
>>9072
>“Whatever,” said Trielle, “I guess I can stand to be a little skinnier.”
>Orion stopped and turned to look at her.
>“Right.”
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▶ No.9177>>9179 >>9182
>>9175
>“God, you must think I'm some kind of whore.”
>“No,” said Orion, “No, I don't think that. I understand.”
Cut this exchange. Makes it sound too much like a stereotypical nice guy fantasy.
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▶ No.9179
>>9072
>>9175
>>9177
Accidentally the wrong post
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▶ No.9182>>9188 >>9217
>>9177
fair enough.
>>9135
It's not meant to be a reward though. I'm trying to work it out as just being a sort of side thing but it's difficult to do. The point is that she's attracted to him anyway. Maybe I should change the dialogue a bit to be more of a "you're alive lets fuck and celebrate" rather than "lol u were nice to me so ill fuck u as reward"
>>9175
I try to write out the conversations as I imagine them in my head. They are already bone thin by this point… perhaps I should poitn that out in the writing.
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▶ No.9188>>9202
>>9182
>Maybe I should change the dialogue a bit to be more of a "you're alive lets fuck and celebrate" rather than "lol u were nice to me so ill fuck u as reward"
I would delete the scene and rewrite it entirely. It's hard to change a general impression when you're still working with the same scene.
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▶ No.9202
>>9188
I won't delete it but I'll try writing an alternate version and see which one I like more. But yeah good idea.
I want to keep the "you must think I'm some kind of a whore" line in but I don't want the "no i understand" shit… maybe he just kind of says "no not really" then changes the subject.
They are supposed to fuck there because it's when she gets pregnant (I know that it usually takes more than one sex session but whatever its a book) and it's just kind of part of the story… I just want to make it so it isn't a reward thing. I mean if she was going to reward him with sex she'd do it when she got her daughter back, not a month later in the woods. The entire point is they are starving and she feels horrible and therefore just wants to feel better. Plus she's all in love with him because of reasons. I guess there isn't really reasons for those things.
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▶ No.9217>>9241 >>9248
>>9182
>It's not meant to be a reward though.
but that's what it comes across as
>Yeah. But that's not why you went. You went because you're a good man.”
>She slid a cold hand around Orion's neck, and kissed him.
Here's your problem. It's completely out of the tone of the scene. If they really have to be intimate in that scene and it can't be implied to happen, don't have it there. Suggestion:
>trielle: "you went because you're a good man"
>orion: "its what i had to do" or "it felt like the right thing to do" or something similar because he's not accepting the praise immediately
>trielle smiled warmly at orion feeling at peace in his presence
end scene
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▶ No.9241
>>9217
Good idea. I think I will have to separate out the scenes.
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▶ No.9248>>9816 >>9826
>>9217
http://pastebin.com/Kw0fVsAh
Alright, I rewrote it. It's long as fuck so I don't blame you if you don't read it all. Added a few days between the "youre a good man" part and the hook up part.
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▶ No.9434
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▶ No.9815
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▶ No.9816>>9826
>>9248
Current todo list:
1. Finish a book review I've been hanging on for ages.
2. Write a review of another book just finished.
3. Read and comment on your hook up thang.
Hang tight, it's on the list. I should get to it later tonight or tomorrow morning.
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▶ No.9826>>9934
>>9816
>>9248
>This page has been removed.
Wherps. Setting an autodeletion time is good for these things, I agree. Anyway, I'll take a look if you repost.
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▶ No.9934>>9980 >>9990
>>9826
Will do
http://pastebin.com/GgERaWNe
This one'll expire after a month too but for now it should be fine.
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▶ No.9980>>9986
>>9934
Looking at it. Couple of things I want to point out, but I've been busy as hell. I'll write up my thoughts and post later today or tonight. You ain't being ignored.
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▶ No.9986
>>9980
alright awesome, thanks.
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▶ No.9990>>10032
>>9934
>and the forest consumed them.
This is a powerful metaphor, one that I like, but I think you are mixing and weakening it with what comes next. If it truly (though figuratively) consumed them, they would not be able to see the sky. You might insert a sentence or two dealing with the nature of this forest, in absolute. Something to lead them into the next part where they find a clearing and rediscover the sky, perhaps making the comparison of how different the sky is now, as to when they entered.
>building them from wisps to angry tongues that devoured the frost-coated twigs.
Huh. Using a similar metaphor twice in short order usually means you are working towards something. Not bad in of itself, but be aware you have done so with your writing. Make sure it's intended, or make note you are trying to send yourself a message suggesting a theme (which happens sometimes, writing can be weird that way). Not a critique here, just something I noticed.
Then again, food features prominently in your writing. Delicious consummation … er … consumption?
>The heat of their bodies contrasted
Contrasted how? This is weak, "contrasted" here is a note to yourself saying: insert a vivid detail or metaphor here. The rest of the paragraph is fine though.
Overall, this works for me. The set up and segue to erotica flowed well. I would like to read more.
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▶ No.10032>>10102
>>9990
I guess the food metaphors I just use to give actions personality. Like when cruisers clash later on I mention how one fleet will "hungrily" eat through the other or something, or how fighters swarm around a cruiser in a sort of feeding frenzy… I'm not fat I swear.
I'll try to make something out of the food metaphor.
The "contrasted" thing… maybe he feels warm on the front of his body but cold on the back? The sensation of human contact in the cold would be pretty severe given how warm one side would be compared to the other. Sadly I can only speak of this in a theoretical nature.
pic related, just pictures of Orion and Trielle. Maybe you have tips how I could better describe them.
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▶ No.10043>>10076 >>10090
>>8816
Your back story is utterly shite, it's generic feminist bullshit. The VAST majority of women dream of getting married, having a home and a family, that is their "girlish dreams" and you're acting like this is a shitty thing.
You're writing a completely unrealistic character who is going to drop her panties for the first guy to rescue her.
Also the "she will defend her kids", no. any one worth a damn will crush her like a bug. Women are not fighters, your STRONK INDEPENDENT WOMYN plot is fucking Tumblr tier.
You're writing the most generic bullshit tumblr feminist story and asking how to fix it. You can't fix it because it's got daddy issues, stretched ears and a vagina even a water melon would consider loose.
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▶ No.10076>>10082
>>10043
>Also the "she will defend her kids", no. any one worth a damn will crush her like a bug. Women are not fighters, your STRONK INDEPENDENT WOMYN plot is fucking Tumblr tier.
Just how utterly retarded are you? Yes, good mothers do defend their children, whether they are fighters or not. There is absolutely nothing feminist about it. For one, it's a known fact that people who are frenzied and armed are dangerous as fuck, whether they are physically weak or not. Probably not dangerous enough to ward off a more skilled and strong attacker, but if said attacker is just a petty thug, then I'm willing to bet he'll be scared off, and maybe killed if she gets a good shot. Knife in the jugular, fight over.
For another, and that's the more important part, holy fucking shit mothers defending their children has NEVER been part of the feminist narrative! A mother who risks her life by attacking a burglar, whether she causes any harm at all or not, affirms exactly the kind of family values that feminists want to destroy. She shows that her duty as a mother, which includes protecting her children from harm, is more important to her than her own life. In other words, she's espousing values that couldn't be more conservative.
Lastly, you do know that Oreo rescued her so hard she wants to fuck him senseless, right? There is no plot that feminists hate more than the "damsel in distress".
>any one worth a damn will crush her like a bug.
Well, tough guy, now I'm curious about your credentials. How many fistfights have you in? Do you have a military background? What are your stats in the big three lifts? Sure, you can practically defeat the vast majority of women in a fistfight by default if you're a guy provided they are not pumped on adrenaline and armed, but you're not plainly stating that you can do so, you're relishing in it. And that's pretty damn pathetic, precisely because everyone can beat up a women so why the fuck do you feel so damn proud about fulfilling the lowest standard there is?
Also, don't get me wrong. Even if you have 2/3/4/5, you're still wrong about everything, but at least you won't be a pussy.
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▶ No.10082>>10084 >>10090 >>10091
>>10076
Look, OP. If you have to justify it this much, something's wrong.
Consider this: Surely she would be upset that she failed to protect her children herself?
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▶ No.10084>>10093
>>10082
>Look, OP. If you have to justify it this much, something's wrong.
Sure is summer in here.
Look, faggot: There's four paragraphs in my post, the argument in each one is sufficient to prove that ur faget. You would've known if you had skimmed it.
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▶ No.10090>>12814
>>10082
That's not OP, I'm OP.
In response to:
>>10043
I'm not a feminist at all. I'm not even a woman. No woman would write something nearly this autistic.
> Your back story is utterly shite, it's generic feminist bullshit. The VAST majority of women dream of getting married, having a home and a family, that is their "girlish dreams" and you're acting like this is a shitty thing.
Okay, but most of them don't dream of getting sold off into an arranged marriage, right?
I didn't say the marriage part was shitty; hell, if anything it's her loyalty to Orion and his children that is meant to be admirable.
> You're writing a completely unrealistic character who is going to drop her panties for the first guy to rescue her.
Well, that was what I wanted to avoid. The sex scene happens after they are trudging through the forests starving and she just wants to feel a halfway decent sensation. That turning into love might be fairly unrealistic, I wouldn't know.
Also, this story is not entirely realistic in the first place. I mean the main characters have a weird mutation/gift that sometimes kicks in and lets them do Matrix-type shooting. So the whole "female soldiers suck" thing I just kind of ignore because whatever.
Also 90% of the fighting in this is with firearms. Yeah women might still not be as good as men with guns but it's easier to believe a woman shooting a bunch of enemy soldiers dead rather than beating them up when she's 5'8" and 135 lbs and they've got five inches and a hundred pounds on her.
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▶ No.10091
>>10082
>Consider this: Surely she would be upset that she failed to protect her children herself?
And, to respond to this, that IS part of her character, it's the failure to protect Marie that drives her to protect Orion's children as well.
To be fair, there is more to her daughter going missing than her fucking up. It's more that she left her daughter with another man to take care of him for a while (family friend) and *he* lost her, so he goes along out of guilt. Orion is the only one who goes along on the rescue mission with no real motive, just to help out, and that is a small part of what makes Trielle love him (not attracted to him, that's kind of a separate part of it).
The problem is I realized that that smacks too much of "nice guy" fantasy so I wanted to distance her gratitude from them having sex.
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▶ No.10093>>10096
>>10084
I don't have time to read all that shit. Stay mad, fag.
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▶ No.10096>>10108 >>12485
>>10093
>Goes to /lit/
>Cannot read worth shit
>Tries to make an argument
>When he's about to lose, he acts like he was just trolling
You're forgiven, we've all been pretty retarded when we were still new. :^)
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▶ No.10102>>10110 >>10280
>>10032
>The "contrasted" thing…
It's one of the places one finds oneself when writing. General advise to beginners is to be succinct with your writing, cut whatever can be cut and use but one noun or verb in place of too many. Contrasted is succinct, but is too weak to serve on its own. It's a bit clinical, and that doesn't work with erotica. "The bitter air blanketed their warming embrace, threaded with wisps of their damp heat." Or something like that.
>pic related, just pictures of Orion and Trielle. Maybe you have tips how I could better describe them.
Don't be afraid to use your readers imagination, which means you don't want to dump all the details of appearance. Don't forget to reach for nonphysical descriptions. What I like to cite as an example is the idea I formed of a character I read of in my childhood, and carried a vivid mental picture of what he looked like decades after. What is surprising is how I recently reread the introduction for this character, and how little physical description there was. The character in question being general Bel Roise from Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Empire.
Another example of how you may tweak a reader's imagination without laying down a shopping list of physical details can be seen here: (linking to another thread)
>>8635
It works, yet Asimov is giving an impression without resort to much in the way of physical detail. This is not a ideal to strive for, it just shows you what else can go into a good character description (especially when you must be economical with word count, as Asimov needed to do for these stories).
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▶ No.10108
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▶ No.10110>>10116
>>10102
Not OP, but:
>use but one noun or verb in place of too many
Could you elaborate on this? Did you mean one noun and a verb in a sentence?
>Don't be afraid to use your readers imagination
This was the best advice that King had given me when I've read his On Writing, though not on the characterization aspect similar to the scene you've quoted. Btw, isn't that snippet tell than show? I might have made my own story more show than tell and I'm finding a hard balance between the two if there should've been a balance ….
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▶ No.10116>>10126 >>10127
>>10110
>Did you mean one noun and a verb in a sentence?
No. I was working to head off a potential objection from common writing advise. I was a bit rushed in my reply. Two common writing guides are oft sited, The Elements of Style by Strunk and White plus (as you mention) King's book. They want you to be rid of reliance on crappy adjectives and adverbs and endless weak verbiage. What I'm saying flies in the face of that, because contrasted does not engage the reader's imagination. It commits the sin of pulling the reader out of the story. I don't see two lovers willfully casting their body heat into the night. Instead, I stop and ask the question, "contrasted how?"
It needs to be changed. It needs better.
>Btw, isn't that snippet tell than show? I might have made my own story more show than tell and I'm finding a hard balance between the two if there should've been a balance ….
I mentioned:
>This is not a ideal to strive for
but again, was a bit rushed. It does need further comment. This is not a style you want strive for by default. It's meant to show how readerly imagination can be made to work for you. Asimov wrote under sever space constraints for these stories. They were originally a set of related short stories serialized in a magazine. So, instead of wasting space with physical details, Asimov described Indbur by an indirect emotional appeal through common stereotypes. Who has not stood in the principal's office for some bullshit, or in front of a teacher, or a supervisor, and stood there in contempt of that geeky nepotic power clown? People will fill in their own physical picture of the character through such emotionally suggestive language as Asimov used.
Larger works, a proper novel, make demands that one reach for the full range of descriptions, and make things as rich as possible. You don't want to fall into writing a shopping list of details for the reader though, and Asimov shows how a physically thin and emotionally slanted description can me made to do.
Basically, I think the description of your characters is fine for the story, so far. One problem is that I am currently studying a writing guide by another author who speaks directly to what I am suggesting. More on this later, I want to reread a chapter on characterization and imagination with some note taking. I'll give your story segment one more going over in light of this author's advise.
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▶ No.10126
>>10116
>Who has not stood in the principal's office for some bullshit, or in front of a teacher, or a supervisor, and stood there in contempt of that geeky nepotic power clown? People will fill in their own physical picture of the character through such emotionally suggestive language as Asimov used.
That's an interesting way to put it. Thanks for the input.
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▶ No.10127
>>10116
Holy frig that need some editing.
>Asimov wrote under sever
… severe
>can me made to do.
can be …
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▶ No.10280
>>10102
>The bitter air blanketed their warming embrace,
Quite like this, might use it. Perhaps "an island of heat in the cold" is more what I am trying to evoke.
> Don't forget to reach for nonphysical descriptions.
I know exactly what you mean. My only issue is that it relies on the reader's experience. If you've never been to a carnival and you describe noises as carnival-like they won't know what you're talking about. That said, sometimes it's the best way to describe them.
Thanks for the tips.
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▶ No.10296>>10297 >>10378
>>8793 (OP)
Don't write for other people. Write for yourself. If you enjoy it, then it IS cringe-worthy and SHOULD be changed.
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▶ No.10297
>>10296
*meant to say if you dont enjoy it lol
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▶ No.10378>>10381
>>10296
Fair enough. But in the story, the idea is that Orion is the first man in Trielle's life who really treats her like a human being, and is genuinely kind to her. She's also attracted to him, so they fuck, but later she realizes he actually cares about her, unlike her previous husband who treated her like meat and mostly ignored her except for making her cook and shit.
I want to bring that across in the writing without it feeling weird. It felt weird, hence me asking for advice on how to change it.
But I agree with you. I am writing this story for myself. No one will ever read it, it's a giant-ass sci-fi epic created from my autistic childhood fantasies. 558 pages and only 5% of the story covered, and that's an optimistic estimate.
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▶ No.10381>>10399 >>10403
>>10378
>But I agree with you. I am writing this story for myself. No one will ever read it, it's a giant-ass sci-fi epic created from my autistic childhood fantasies. 558 pages and only 5% of the story covered, and that's an optimistic estimate.
Dude, you what? My autistic childhood fantasies give me material for like four books, and that's it! Granted, I'm struggling to put half the autism I have created into that story, even after I dismissed ninety percent of it, and I might come up with some short stories with my characters, but still.
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▶ No.10398>>10411
>>8793 (OP)
Her: "You're a good man."
Him: "You're not so bad yourself." *grabs her, kisses her, she swoons in his arms*
The man is the one that's supposed to take the lead, anon.
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▶ No.10399>>10403 >>10411
>>10381
Well the problem is that it's something I've been continuing in my head ever since then, so I am constantly adding new material. I will probably have to shorten things up a bit to cover it all.
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▶ No.10403>>10411 >>10418 >>12456
>>10399
>>10381
That "autistic daydreaming" may have qualified as "worldplay", in which case, I'd implore you to explore that paracosm further. You may be focused on a specific time, events, and characters; a true paracosm, however, pertains all the truest concepts of a living world. Reach into its past and future; there need not be a present. You're an omnipotent spectator, sliding between eras, worlds, and timelines of your choosing.
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▶ No.10411>>10435
>>10398
Tell that to all the girls I know. I swear, they like blowjobs more than I do. Damn, that sounded douchy.
>>10399
>Well the problem is that it's something I've been continuing in my head ever since then, so I am constantly adding new material.
Totally familiar with that. I've been sitting on my story for years now, before I ever started putting it to paper. It made many transitions, too. The protagonist started out as an undead vampire, then became a sociopath, then a beta, now he's neither of these things, and I'm really damn glad about this. The world also changed several times. I kinda miss the orwellian state I came up with after one of the changes.
>I will probably have to shorten things up a bit to cover it all.
True. I regard the autistic stuff I come up with as my sandbox. Only some elements are essential enough to absolutely require mentioning, others I take out as background details when it's necessary.
>>10403
I came up with the most important details of my world through paracosm. It's also almost exclusively how I create my fight scenes. I have to adapt them to paper, which means that most of the flashy moves go, but things like who's in charge stay. Similar with characters, those are fleshed out in scenes I imagine, and their life stories and identity, too. I almost never write biographies for them, those are bad tools in my opinion.
What a place looks like is something I almost always come up during writing. I'm shit at imagining them, but when I write, I come up with really dandy details.
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▶ No.10418
>>10403
>paracosm
>mfw psychologists having words for detailed, personal, imaginary worlds
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▶ No.10421>>10428
>>8793 (OP)
sounds like some rape apologist bullshit. Have her say he's a nice guy and then pat him on the shoulder.
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▶ No.10428>>10429 >>10434
>>10421
In the original version, I didn't like OP's excerpt at all. Sounded like a nice guy-fantasy to the maxx, although I think he has solved that now, for the most part. I actually like his project now.
My point is, I understand there was (and probably still is, would have to take another look at it) a lot to criticize, there is no fucking way he was engaging in rape apologetics. That is complete bullshit and you should be ashamed you came up with something so inane.
>Girl and guy have consensual sex
>Even initiated by the girl
>Somehow rape
What the shit?
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▶ No.10429
>>10428
Oops.
>I understand there was
Correction:
>while I understand there was
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▶ No.10434>>10441 >>10450
>>10428
OP has repeatedly indicated that he insists on having a 21st century mentality in his story. And in this mentality any expectation of sex by a man is rape culture and having sex when there is any kind of inequality between partners is rape since consent cannot be truly given, and OP has said that the woman is emotionally vulnerable.
Looks like rape to me and trying to use frankly out dated notions of sexuality to soften the picture is surely a form of apologetics.
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▶ No.10435
>>10411
>True. I regard the autistic stuff I come up with as my sandbox. Only some elements are essential enough to absolutely require mentioning, others I take out as background details when it's necessary.
Very true. I am trying to think of a good way to summarize a battle or encounter without making it seem weird, but perhaps I'll think of a way to do it someday. Some of the battles, particularly those involving the deaths of characters, have to be written out in full. Though I find I am writing them more and more like Tolkien in terms of describing numbers of people killed in some parts.
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▶ No.10441>>10443
>>10434
Wow. It took you almost ten hours to come up with the punchline, and then it's shit. Look, we know you're not actually holding this opinion. Talk about "just pretending".
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▶ No.10443>>10678
>>10441
Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
You don't get to have nice guy sex fantasies, which btw only exist in the 21st century mind, but then ignore the muddy context that has brought them into existence.
Unless of course you actually want to write delusional self-insert fantasy.
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▶ No.10450
>>10434
> OP has said that the woman is emotionally vulnerable.
Well, she is sort of. They are both starving and miserable, it's literally just her and her daughter and Orion trekking through the woods starving to death after most of the town was massacred. She's attracted to him, grateful to him for helping rescue her daughter, and she's also pretty lonely. I mean, just being alone with an attractive member of the opposite sex will make people pretty horny I suppose. And starving and miserable people generally want good feelings. So she comes onto him because she just wants to feel something good again, I guess it's almost hedonistic, but she needs that kind of release too. Orion is used to wandering through the woods starving because he did it after escaping louse captivity for months before meeting her.
The scary thing is that this entire arc is like 1% of the entire story at best. It was inspired when I was staying in Maine in this small town near the seashore and imagined it with walls, and imagined someone like her living there, and that was where Orion ended up.
Anyway I'll stop rambling but I figured I'd explain it some more. I want to make it clear that she's attracted to him, but his kindness toward her certainly doesn't hurt. I don't want it to seem like she's rewarding him with sex, though; if a hot girl does something nice for you, you still want to sleep with her, not because of the kind thing she did but because she's attractive. Hence why I wanted to separate her gratitude and the sex. But I also struggle to make sure there is chemistry between them to make it sound like they'd actually become intimate partners.
I'm a lonely kissless virgin so I really have to fact-check this stuff to keep it from being too cringy.
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▶ No.10678
>>10443
>but then ignore the muddy context that has brought them into existence.
Which is?
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▶ No.11375>>11376
bump for an old-ass thread
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▶ No.11376
>>11375
I missed this thread. Thanks
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▶ No.11429>>11541
>>8793 (OP)
Depends. Sometimes the adrenalin rush of almost dying and being saved can cause that kind of reaction, but if the daughter's there as well, that probably won't work. If she's telling him later on, once everyone's safe and comfy, then it depends on the chemistry and it probably also depends on whether we're talking slow and sensual or animal lust. If the former, you're probably fine but if it's the latter, it could need a retuning.
Ultimately, though, it's up to you.
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▶ No.11493
Have him slit her throat with his tanto and then run out of the house without even cleaning up.
>nothing personnel, kiddo
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▶ No.11541
>>11429
This takes place a month or so after her daughter is rescued. I'll greentext the plot in quick detail.
> hero from a fallen city (Orion) comes to this seaside village called Alderheim
> guy is basically a living legend, full-on mary sue character
> meets Trielle (the woman) who lives with her husband's friend Cormick
> they are not together in any way, as you would understand if you read it, it's like she's living with her brother
> basically the backstory is, they were in another town with Trielle's husband (who she hated) and Cormick, when the enemy attacked.
> cormick panicked and left Trielle's daughter (marie) behind in the city
> as a result, Cormick is driven to go back for Marie because of guilt, Trielle is driven to go back because, well, it's her daughter
> orion, from Trielle's view, has no reason to go back
> they rescue Marie, cormick dies in the attempt
> make it back to Alderheim
> a month later, Alderheim is attacked and destroyed
> Trielle, Orion, and Marie are among the only ones to escape
> wander alone in the woods
> Trielle tells Orion he's such a good man for helping rescue Marie
> a couple nights later she leads him away from their little camp and comes onto him
> they fuck, Orion says something about how it can't be a relationship, or maybe that's later
> eventually they get rescued by this mercenary dude and the story continues
The idea is that their relationship is physical at first, Orion has lost all the lovers he's ever had and doesn't want Trielle to die as well. Eventually he kinda succumbs to it and falls in love with her.
> then a year later he sacrifices himself to set off a doomsday weapon to turn the tide of the war, and Trielle dies seven years later getting shot a dozen times protecting her children (hers and Orion's)
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▶ No.11951>>12228
I think a blowjob would be more realistic with most modern women. Especially desperate single moms.
You could throw in the daughter if you wanted to help me with my next wank session.
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▶ No.11956>>12228
>>8793 (OP)
>Does it smack too much of "nice guy" self-insert fantasy?
It trips my cringe-o-meter, if that matters to you.
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▶ No.12228>>12487
>>11956
Well how about when I rewrote it? I can repost the pastebin if it's expired.
>>11951
Well it's not meant to be a wank scene (though I admit…). It's the only sex scene in the book I actually write out instead of "fade to black" like I prefer. I have no idea why I wrote it out in this case but I tend to go off of what I imagined in my head.
And she's not really a desperate single mom. I just feel like my experiences on halfchan have corrupted my ability to write a female character correctly without "lmao this guy is such a beta for helping a single mother at all" bullshit going through my head. Trielle (the character I am talking about) is by almost any judge a virtuous person. She was forced to marry a man she didn't love when she was 17 who saw her as a trophy wife and cook, had a child with him, and when he was killed she didn't care much because she hadn't really loved him, but she cared for her daughter. When she meets Orion, she actually falls in love with him, but part of that is driven by his kindness in rescuing her daughter.
My issue is, I don't want to make it seem like it's her fucking him out of gratitude. It's because she actually wants him, partly because she likes him and is attracted to him, but the fact that he almost died to save her daughter doesn't hurt. Whereas Orion only did it because he lost everything and failed to protect the city he ruled, and wanted to regain some feeling of control, like he can still get shit done.
And they end up madly in love and have their own kid, then Orion dies a year later (I regret him dying), and Trielle dies eight years later destroying a superweapon that would have destroyed her childrens' home.
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▶ No.12244>>12487
>>8793 (OP)
Sex scenes at all are always cringe, no matter how well they're written or how or where they're written.
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▶ No.12447>>12448 >>12456
yeah, he's a "good man" "as a friend". If she was sexually attracted to "good men" she wouldn't be a single mother in the first place, so it's not really believable. Plus, no one wants to read a book where the hero ends up a cuck.
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▶ No.12448>>12449 >>12456
>>12447
>If she was sexually attracted to "good men" she wouldn't be a single mother in the first place, so it's not really believable
What if she was an actual widow? Maybe her husband died being a really good man, you know, like saving a baby from a tree but snapping his neck falling down while trying to protect the baby with his body from the wicked branches.
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▶ No.12449>>12450 >>12456
>>12448
it still seems weird, if the guy is so heroic why is the chick initiating the encounter? I don't think it works because if she initiated the sex then he seems kinda beta which is weird for a supposed hero, and if he initiates it then it seems like he was just being heroic to get laid, which is also sort of "white knighty" and beta…it just doesn't work.
ever see the movie Drive? the dude takes care of the chick and her daughter and then tries to save the lowlife husband when he gets out of prison and finally saves the girl and her daughter, but he never fucks her, if he did it would be weird and ruin some of of his aura as the mysterious hero etc.
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▶ No.12450
>>12449
>the guy is so heroic why is the chick initiating the encounter?
She needs to attract a mate so their daughter has a good father figure in her life. Offering sex is just a way of bonding to quarantee good upbringing of the late heroic good man's only child.
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▶ No.12456
>>12447
>>12448
She is a single mother because her husband was killed by enemy soldiers when they attacked her town. Also she was forced into the marriage when she was 17. Basically her life was getting rawdogged, cooking dinner and cleaning the house for ten years, never loving her husband but never cheating on him either.
>>12449
He doesn't initiate anything because, while he is attracted to her, he has had something like four girlfriends die at this point, and he has lost everything in his life: lovers, his sister, his friend, the city he was the leader of. So he is pretty much waiting to die and doesn't want to get attached to anyone. It's also why, after the sex, he is insistent that it "can't mean anything."
He is a teensy bit beta at this point, but only because he's basically given up on life.
He dies later on which I really regret having happen, he really was the most bad-ass character and all the parts of this story that mean the most to me, had him in it. Now I only have one of the original characters left and I feel like resurrecting him with some ancient tech bullshit but it feels wrong to do that.
>>10403
I kind of do that, but it feels like it damages my immersion to jump between times too much. I feel myself losing my grip on it from time to time, and I often worry that someday my little world will slip away from me forever.
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▶ No.12485>>12500
>>10096
I'm new and retarded. Am I going to make it /lit/?
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▶ No.12487>>12493
>>12228
Are you the healing crystals guy? That "art" bears an almost uncanny resemblance.
>>12244
Houellebecq does them just fine, mainly because the scenes themselves are as emotionless and numb as you feel while reading sex scenes in a book.
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▶ No.12493
>>12487
>Are you the healing crystals guy?
I don't think so….? No, this is just an autistic story I imagine in my head, that I started writing out. So at one point I kinda imagined all this stuff, but I can't remember exactly how the sex happened in it. Only that I was walking in the woods at night when I pictured it.
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▶ No.12500
>>12485
So long as you learn from your retardation, yes.
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▶ No.12777
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▶ No.12814>>12818 >>12819
>>10090
Unless you mean "momma gets the shotgun from the log cabin and scares of a ba'ar" level gun fighting, men are still orders of magnitude more effective fighters than women when firearms are involved.
In any sort of war or prolonged combat situation, the physical strain is enormously destructive to women's bodies; they begin to suffer muscle loss, bone erosion, and internal organ failure very quickly.
Not only that, but men have better spatial perception and 3d spatial reasoning, which means they're better shots on average, can get a bead more quickly, and change targets more effectively.
Then there is the psychological aspect. Pulling out a gun to defend your kids is one thing, but most women do not have what it takes to simply murder someone for more abstract reasons.
Besides, armed conflict is not just shooting. You have running, evasion, a lot of fun shit like scaling walls and stuff, all while carrying craploads of ammo and equipment; the second an enemy force charges your position you are reduced to CQC, which gives men even more of an advantage….
tl;dr: don't put women in combat if you want people to take your story seriously.
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▶ No.12818
>>12814
>In any sort of war or prolonged combat situation, the physical strain is enormously destructive to women's bodies; they begin to suffer muscle loss, bone erosion, and internal organ failure very quickly.
I doubt that. If that were so, there would be no female endurance athletes and few female survivors of death camps. Concerning the latter, I remember Robert Conquest talking about how women were generally surprisingly resilient in Soviet Death Camps. I'm not sure if they were put to the really heavy work, but these camps were hardcore. Heavy work meant logging wood or mining for over twelve hours every single day in arctic temperatures on a diet of less than two-thousand calories. Most men couldn't survive that either for prolonged times.
The rest of what you said isn't conclusive. It means brigades of female fighters are extremely ineffective, not that individual female fighters are necessarily so ineffective that they couldn't exist. There's outliers among women that could fight well enough to keep up, although seeing as children are recruited as soldiers too and as there are some reports of female partisans, I doubt they even need to be outliers, at least not when it's a guerilla or militia and not a professional army (unless it's a total war were everyone is used as cannon fodder).
Also: Artistic license. I liek sexy warrior princesses.
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▶ No.12819
>>12814
Then there is the psychological aspect. Pulling out a gun to defend your kids is one thing, but most women do not have what it takes to simply murder someone for more abstract reasons.
And that just doesn't hold at all, sorry. No one can tell me that soldiers absolutely require to believe in what they do in order to kill. Their beliefs are good enough if they can serve as the basis of a neutralization technique. These techniques are common in the criminal world. Everyone is suddenly the most moral person alive when he needs to justify a crime to himself. It can get ridiculous really fast.
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▶ No.12949
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▶ No.12950>>12951
>>8811
You seem fluent enough in English. Why would you read a translation?
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▶ No.12951
>>12950
Not him, but I sometimes read translation just to keep the vile English out of my head.
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