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/liberty/ - Liberty

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 9bb759b43eefe69⋯.webm (3.14 MB, 684x384, 57:32, Calcium.webm)

 No.83639

Please r8 mine.

also calcium

Marxism is a bankrupt ideology from the ground up. Hegelian dialectics offers no explanation grounded in formal logic for the transition from one form to another; it is merely a phenomenological framework for the way in which concepts evolve. Contradictions inherent in any proposition lead to the creation of a counter-proposition; both of these are then subsumed into the synthesis. Marx and his contemporaries' recasting of dialectics as a law of material nature and a tool with analytical power (diamat) provides the foundations of an ideology which claims that history is a procession of modes of production which are transformed as other modes come into conflict with them and that society is a 'superstructure' rising out of this.

Observing current and historical social structures or analyzing human psychology or using logic (game theory) as ways to create theories with predictive power is, from the Marxist perspective, invalid because the paradigm is subject to periodic and complete transformation; diamat therefore dismisses the entire field of economic theory in its current empiricist form as being part of the superstructure.

The fundamental problem with this view is that a dialectical model has no predictive power by design. In the words of Kołakowski in Main Currents of Marxism, "[It] consists partly of truisms with no specific Marxist content, partly of philosophical dogmas, partly of nonsense, and partly of statements that could be any of these things depending on how they are interpreted." You can only recognize conflict and transformation after the fact, and no direction towards which society moves is implied. Marxists assert that everything moves in the direction of increasing complexity (a claim that comes dangerously close to denying entropy exists), but no adequate explanation of why this is the case or a definition of what complexity is in the social sense are provided.

After creating diamat, Marx then hilariously spun around at gale-force speeds to begin making empirically falsifiable claims: that society has always been composed of rigid, stratified classes (a claim pulled entirely from thin air and patently untrue; see hunter-gatherer societies, which have been the most common way for humans to organize themselves historically) and that we will someday transcend this and reach a classless society, that relationships between classes are inherently exploitative, that what causes modes of production to change is specifically class conflict, his labour theory of value and so on. These theories are what have led to the disastrous economic and social policies implemented by Marxists and their descendants, but when this is pointed out empirically Marxists revert to diamat and claim that such analyses of Marxist systems are impossible because Marxism is based on dialectics (well, the smarter ones do this; most just trot out the tired meme of not true socialism).

In short, Marxism consists of two contradictory pillars failing to mesh together; dialectical materialism and a number of disparate empirical claims which lead to very dangerous political implications. By suggesting that classes are rigid and unchanging, Marxists create an 'us' and 'them'. By claiming that the relationship between classes is inherently exploitative, they create the justification for aggression against the oppressive 'them'.

 No.83651

A lot of your criticism rests upon dialectical materialism which as far as I know was a term never once used by Marx. It was used by Engels, I think, after Marx died. Probably when Engels was compiling Marx's notes and unfinished writings. The idea of a dialectical method in Marx's work became popular (as far as I know) due to Lenin claiming that Hegelian logic/dialectics contained "the key" to understanding Marx's underlying method and theory.

So one could criticize dialectical materialism but that's a criticism of later Marxists more than Marx himself (in my opinion.)

My biggest criticisms of Marxism are:

1. Most Marxists take an unscientific attitude towards theory. They develop theory based upon formulas rather than investigation, criticism, evaluation, falsification, empirical methods, etc. Marx himself, aside from the Manifesto, didn't write in terms of simple formulas. His theory was flexible.

2. Historical materialism (Marx's name for the theory) was left unfinished at the time of his death. Later Marxists then divided into at least two camps. The revisionists said that Marx's theory was out of date. The anti-revisionists said that Marx's theory was still correct and needed to be "protected" from revisionism.

3. Some of the unfinished parts of Marxist theory were pretty important. Notably, the socio-political aspect of historical change as well as a theory of class. Marx didn't spend much time on either, despite claiming that history was a history of class struggle. If you read his more developed texts (like Capital) he spends much more time investigating capitalism as a system of relations rather than as a system built and worked by people.

4. The best criticism against Marxism was made by Bakunin. He pointed out that any program which included the use of the state to cement the power of one faction would inevitably turn that faction into a new ruling elite, whether a party or bureaucracy.

>most just trot out the tired meme of not true socialism

Eh… Most officially Communist countries probably weren't socialist in any significant sense. I'd call the USSR "real socialism" in a very limited sense… but even then it's an example I hate to defend.

>By claiming that the relationship between classes is inherently exploitative, they create the justification for aggression against the oppressive 'them'.

Nah, class conflict existed before Marx.


 No.83668

File: 4101c6232492ba7⋯.png (18.54 KB, 768x768, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>>83651

Sorry for going a bit off topic, but what does /liberty/ think of dialectics? I'm a dualist myself, and I think dialectics sometimes explains fairly well the nature of the world we live in if we look at it realistically, and not the way commies use it to try and fool people into believing some Marxist prophecy.


 No.83673

I guess it depends on what you mean by dialectics.


 No.83704

>>83668

It's a useful way of thinking about how ideas and opinions change but offers no insight into what they should actually be.


 No.83705

OP here, forgot my flag

>>83651

>A lot of your criticism rests upon dialectical materialism which as far as I know was a term never once used by Marx.

>So one could criticize dialectical materialism but that's a criticism of later Marxists more than Marx himself (in my opinion.)

Well yes, my chief problem with Marxism is that it is an ideology based on an aesthetic more than an actual philosophy or coherent set of beliefs. The 20th century communist apologists in particular tried to retrofit diamat but failed spectacularly, which is the reason why they have in the latter years embraced the anti-logic of Derrida and the postmodernists.


 No.83749

OP here, disregard what I said. I suck cocks.


 No.83781

>>83749

here's your (you)


 No.83783

Now all you need is to name yourself OP in this thread. OP here




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