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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: f824c860402dcaf⋯.jpg (176.39 KB, 1024x576, 16:9, ancient_walled_kingdom_by_….jpg)

 No.78256

What do you think of monarchy?

 No.78264

Depends on the monarch. It could be good or shit. I'm a bit hesitant on living in one due to inexperience.


 No.78266

>>78256

its fine if the monarch rules over his property that was acquired in compliance with the nap


 No.78271

File: 6ccd9bf950e43c7⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 618.55 KB, 1241x1754, 1241:1754, e5636179b24b753aa914d9413b….jpg)


 No.78279

"Libertarians" lmaooooooooo


 No.78280

>>78279

>You are free to do what you want as long as you don't do TOO well


 No.78284

It's the best possible system– if I'm the monarch! In every other case: it's pure shit.


 No.78288

File: 69e356e1d65a06a⋯.jpg (97.21 KB, 677x671, 677:671, girlfriend vs kingdom - al….jpg)

>>78256

Only as good as the royal family, so, >>78284

Still, Call me a LARPer but my robot supremacism is probably more similar to monarchy them many other goverment type exepot maybe of the Spartan Fascism where classes where divided by race.


 No.78291

File: 45897a7601671ed⋯.jpg (31.97 KB, 525x469, 75:67, 1443429173048.jpg)

>>78256

Only if the monarch doesn't violate the NAP.


 No.78293

>Monarchies are un-democratic!

Not true. Actually, most monarchies in the world today are more democratic than most republics in the world. Further, in most republics (even the United States) the President is not directly elected by the people anyway. However, being democratic is not necessarily a good thing. Benevolent leaders and bloodthirsty dictators have both come to power through democracy.

>Monarchies are too expensive!

Not true, not by a long shot. Some monarchs (such as the Prince of Liechtenstein) cost the public nothing at all. In the United Kingdom, the money the Queen grants the government from the Crown Estates is considerably more than the allowance she receives from the Civil List, so Britain effectively makes money off the monarchy. Republics often spend more on their presidents, past presidents and first families than monarchies do on their royal houses. Many countries (like Australia, Jamaica or Canada) share a monarch and pay nothing and monarchies do not have the constant, massive expense of elections and political campaigns for the top job.

>Hereditary monarchy just isn’t fair!

Why not? How can any system for determining national leadership be absolutely fair? It hardly seems fair that one person should receive the top job simply because he or she is more popular. Surely the correct criteria should be how qualified a person is rather than if they are good at making speeches, more photogenic or being more gifted at graft and deceit. In a monarchy the top job goes to someone trained from birth to fill that role. In a republic, even under the best circumstances, an elected president will take half their term learning to do the job and the other half campaigning to retain it; hardly a model of efficiency. Hereditary succession seems much more “fair” than granting power to those able to swindle enough money and promise enough favors to the powerful to obtain the highest office in the land.

>Monarchies are dangerous! What if the monarch is incompetent?

The same question could be asked about republican leaders. However, rest assured, monarchs who are not capable of fulfilling their duties can be replaced and have been throughout history. Take two of the oldest and most stable monarchies; in Great Britain, when King George III became incapacitated the Prince of Wales was made regent and exercised his duties for him. Similarly, in Japan, when the Taisho Emperor was no longer able to fulfill his duties, the Crown Prince took over those duties for him as regent. On the other hand, even in the most successful republic in the world, the United States, only two presidents have ever been impeached and neither one was actually removed from office.

>Monarchy is an archaic throwback! It’s simply out of date!

Certainly monarchy is an ancient institution as it developed naturally from the dawn of time and the growth of human civilizations. However, democracy and republicanism is just as archaic. The Greek city-states of ancient times tried direct democracy and found it of very limited value, lasting only so long as people found out they could vote themselves the property of others. Republicanism was tried on a large-scale by the ancient Romans and yet they too found that it caused too many divisions, factions and civil wars before they decided a monarchy was preferable. The oldest republic in the world today was founded in 301 AD. How out of date is that?

>What about cruel monarchs like Nero or Attila the Hun? Surely no benefits could be worth risking leaders like that!

Actually, far more people have been butchered in wars or massacred by those in power since the start of the revolutionary period than in all history previously. Nero or Attila the Hun were unsavory characters but nowhere near as bad as republican monsters like Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong or Pol Pot. It has only been in the post-revolutionary era of mass politics and political ideologies that governments have taken to killing their own people in huge numbers. Nero was cruel to his own family and later persecuted Christians who were still a tiny minority and Attila the Hun, as ruthless as he was toward his enemies, ruled his own people well from what we know and with justice. No monarch ever wiped out as many of their own people as the communist dictators of the Twentieth Century, all of whom did so in the name of “the people” and “fairness”.


 No.78294

>Royals are too out of touch. They have no idea how regular people live.

Some people believe this, but it simply isn’t true. Queen Elizabeth II was a mechanic and truck driver during World War II, the King of Thailand is a renowned jazz musician and composer, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark has painted illustrations for several books, including the Danish edition of “The Lord of the Rings”. The Emperor of Japan grows his own rice, the King of Cambodia was a practically anonymous dance instructor before coming to the throne and many royal heirs take ordinary jobs, often in obscure places where they are unknown, after finishing school. Despite what people think, royal life is not all champagne and caviar. Compare this to many presidents who have often never worked outside the public sector in their entire lives, never served in the military (as most royals do) or ever known any other life besides making speeches and casting votes.

>At best, monarchs are unnecessary. A president could do just as good a job.

Not true at all. Some republics have ceremonial presidents that are supposed to be non-political but they still invariably have a political background and are beholden to the party that appoints them. A monarch, on the other hand, is above all political divisions and has a blood connection to the history of the country, its traditions and most deeply held beliefs. No politician could ever represent a people in the way a monarch can whose family history has been the history of the country itself.

>Monarchies must be bad or else there would be more of them!

That argument could only begin to make sense if most monarchies had fallen because of a conscious decision by the whole people to see them end. This has certainly not been the case. Most monarchies have fallen because of brute force exerted by a powerful, motivated minority or because their country was defeated in war and their state collapsed. How about looking at how people live? The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development annually puts out a list of the best countries to live in based on a variety of factors and monarchies invariably outrank republics by far. Last year, 2012, is a typical case with 8 out of the top 10 best countries to live in being monarchies; the only republics to make the top 10 were the United States and Switzerland. If republics are so great, shouldn’t their people be living better lives than those in monarchies?

>Monarchs are so set apart, they cannot represent ordinary people.

Actually, that is precisely why they can represent everyone in a way no politician ever could. President Hollande of France is an agnostic socialist, so how can he truly represent those French who are Catholic or capitalists? President Napolitano of Italy was a long-time communist, which is certainly not representative of most Italians. President Obama of the US, a liberal from Hawaii, cannot have much in common with a conservative from South Carolina. Yet, a monarch, because they are set apart, can represent everyone because they are not from any particular group.

>Republics bring progress, monarchies only oppressed.

Historical fact says otherwise. Time and time again history has shown that the end of monarchy makes things worse for a country, not better. In France it resulted in the “Reign of Terror” that saw tens of thousands of people get their heads chopped off. In Russia, the loss of the monarchy allowed the Bolsheviks to take power who then created the Soviet Union which spread oppression around the world and murdered millions of people. In China the result was a chaotic period of warlord rule followed by the bloodiest civil war in human history and then a communist dictatorship that took the lives of 60 million people. The end of monarchy in Germany and Austria resulted in divided republics that allowed Adolf Hitler to come to power, devastate the continent and butcher 9 million people. The fall of the Shah of Iran allowed a radical theocracy to take power that has spread terrorism around the world and brutally oppressed its own people. These are only a few of the examples that could be cited and the facts are inarguable.

Monarchy is the best form of government.


 No.78295

>>78293

Holy fuck this is like watching lawyer explain why his client who he knows murdered someone didn't murder.

The queen creates wealth?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaha ahshajahahahahahahahahahahahshahahshshshahshshshshshshshshshshshahs yeah and Justin Bieber creates wealth! He brings people to stadiums built with money that should have been spent on the public, therefore he helps the economy!

Money is created by people out of thin air, they hand it to the groups they like the most, then they get to enslave people. 99 percent of the world lived paycheck to paycheck, but yeah the queen system is very good!

The only thing that matters is knowledge/integrity. The entire world is rigged, and the only reason that this isn't universally accepted the same way that we say pi is 3.14 is because people are killed and bribed. One crime against humanity is pointed out, then two celebrity breakups pop up. Then another crime against humanity is pointed out and a new iPhone comes out. Millions of people bring up new shit every day about why the world is fucked, and instead of our king's and queens listening they just double down since they are psychopaths. I don't even know why I'm bothering trying to reason with a psychopath. People will defend their child who raped somebody no matter what, people will defend their mafia, people will defend fellow cops who abuse their power. The majority of people can not be reasoned with in any way, because they are shameless narcisssists who use the equation IF I harm somebody AND nobody catched me I will get away with that and it was a correct action.

You aren't getting through me though. I'm immune to your lies.


 No.78296

File: d7b412d31f3312f⋯.mp4 (6.03 MB, 320x240, 4:3, monarchy.mp4)

>>78256

Monarchy is nothing but tradition where you have king to micro manage how society should live. But in reality, there's nothing libertarian about monarchy. If you don't pay tax to the king, you're fucked.


 No.78297

I'd say every person I've ever met has shown that they are corruptable. There are millions of books movies etc about humans showing they are corrupt. Look at how things happen in the wild - the strongest survive. You want to give one wolf the right to kill any other wolf, and all other wolves are banned. Wow that is such a good system!

The entire reason the United States did things the way they did was because all these people aknowledged that the royal class was shit, nobody should be given absolute power over anyone, and there has to be checks and balances since people are always going to be corruptable and have bias.

Minimal government to just ensure things operate with some consistency , then after that you are on your own.

Let's go back to first grade. Treat others the way you want to be treated. How would you like it if I came up to you today and said you know what? You have to work from 8pm to 4am from now on because those are the hours I am usually most energetic. I control your life. Me me me. I make your decisions. I chose what you eat. You can't swear anymore. No more tv since it's a waste of time. Talking is also useless so you have to shut up for the rest of your life.

Shit goes both ways. If you are going to come up to me and tell me you know the best way for me to live and you are now going to block my free will, prepare for war.


 No.78300

>>78256

Complex topic. Short answer is, better than democracy, other things equal. Even absolute monarchy is superior. The reason for that is that democracy is actually based on absolutism, but with the king replaced by "the people". Before absolutism, monarchies were based on a different concept of sovereignty, in which everyone was sovereign in his own dominion, from king to peasant. Obviously, such a model is far closer to anarchy than to democracy.

>>78284

A monarchy is not a dictatorship. A modern dictator has far more power to oppress his people than any king ever did. A dictator may look like a king outwardly, but he's got his mandate from the people. An absolute monarch is unaccountable to anyone else and all the power of the state rests in him. A democratic state is controlled by herd instincts and identifies itself with society. A dictator combines all of these bad traits.

Now, with that said:

>It's the best possible system– if I'm the monarch!

This applies to all systems of government, but not particularly to monarchy. Because the democratic state is seen and sees itself as an extension of the people, and because the whims of the masses control it, it is particularly prone to becoming omnipotent. A tyrant is like an anvil falling on your head, but ochlocracy is like anvils coming at you from all sides.


 No.78302

>>78295

>The majority of people can not be reasoned with in any way, because they are shameless narcisssists who use the equation IF I harm somebody AND nobody catched me I will get away with that and it was a correct action.

Actually, you sound kinda narcissistic here, buddy.


 No.78305

>>78300

>Before absolutism, monarchies were based on a different concept of sovereignty, in which everyone was sovereign in his own dominion, from king to peasant

Wouldn't the king still have control over the peasant if he wanted to? Anyway, tell me more please.

>A modern dictator has far more power to oppress his people than any king ever did.

I guess Saudi Arabia isn't a real monarchy then, or any monarchy in the gulf, or the Russian Tzars…


 No.78307

>>78300

Not superior to federal republic.


 No.78319

>>78305

>Wouldn't the king still have control over the peasant if he wanted to?

Before centralized monarchies in the 1500s kings depended on their feudal lords for support due to lack of their own resources and armies, so if a king decided to go and mess with peasants under someone else's protection repeatedly they would have a rebellion on their hands.


 No.78329

>>78319

that would still mean peasants were at the mercy of their lords


 No.78331

>>78329

The weak will always be at the mercy of the powerful in literally any system.


 No.78332

File: a0e556e305d96bc⋯.png (1.16 MB, 1366x727, 1366:727, ClipboardImage.png)

>>78329

Well remember, that was before guns were invented and the lord was essentially invincible in armor.


 No.78336

>>78305

Saudi Arabia would be a shitty place to live no matter what system of government it had, that kind of behavior is embedded into the local culture.


 No.78337

>>78336

Saudi Arabia is a very nice place to live if you are a citizen. Its the imported non citizen labor that has the shitty life.


 No.78347

>>78336

>>78337

Should smuggle guns into Saudi Arabia and overthrow the monarchy. :^)


 No.78369

>>78337

>Saudi Arabia is a very nice place to live if you are a citizen

It's mid-tier middle eastern level of life, not really good. And it's still a repressive theocracy on par with Iran.

t. knower


 No.78371

File: b8229bd15435ba6⋯.pdf (224.99 KB, From Aristocracy to Monarc….pdf)

>>78266

This, desu

Monarchy/aristocracy is much more preferable to democracy/republicanism.


 No.78372

>>78369

Well mr "in the know" If you look at median income in relation to prices the country does VERY well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

#10 of the world consistently


 No.78378

>>78372

>divide massive oil lord profits among small population

You need to check the Gini.


 No.78382

>>78372

Means nothing without context. I guess you think everyone in Equatorial Guinea a millionaire because king nigger's salary rises the average.


 No.78406

File: 3583c6ca3326fb3⋯.png (24.19 KB, 558x614, 279:307, 1508902821163.png)


 No.78407

>>78382

>>78378

Do you faggots of no idea what "median" means? Clearly not. Its not the "mean". It already accounts for that. Jesus fucking christ elementary school math.


 No.78419

>>78407

The word median is not in the Wiki article anon, it's an average.


 No.78425

>>78407

retard

>Three lists of countries below calculate gross domestic product (at purchasing power parity) per capita, i.e., the purchasing power parity (PPP) value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given year, divided by the average (or mid-year) population for the same year.


 No.78433

>>78280

>one man dictatorship

>liberty

Pick one you pol brown noser


 No.78441

>>78433

If you think liberty means everyone gets a piece of property just because they were born you are a commie faggot. If a person acquires such an amount of property without violating the NAP it is theirs and you can fuck off.


 No.78442

>>78378

Gini does not matter. If super wealthy exist that is fine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income


 No.78452

>>78441

And how would he do that?


 No.78454

>>78452

>how does a person become rich

if only we had a system that allowed people to start businesses and become wealthy


 No.78463

>>78454

>how does a person become rich enough to buy everything

FTFY


 No.78464

File: fd6fb0165b89718⋯.jpg (53.88 KB, 268x375, 268:375, 1444834742021.jpg)

>>78442

>check per-capita median income for Saudi Arabia

>4K


 No.78466

>>78464

Look at the household income faggot. You know the women there don't have rights.




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