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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 1fb1ad4d6132c57⋯.jpg (53.9 KB, 900x450, 2:1, 1xHv9oc.jpg)

 No.75175

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/monkey-business.html

When taught to use money, a group of capuchin monkeys responded quite rationally to simple incentives; responded irrationally to risky gambles; failed to save; stole when they could; used money for food and, on occasion, sex.

It took several months of rudimentary repetition to teach the monkeys that these tokens were valuable as a means of exchange for a treat and would be similarly valuable the next day. Having gained that understanding, a capuchin would then be presented with 12 tokens on a tray and have to decide how many to surrender for, say, Jell-O cubes versus grapes. This first step allowed each capuchin to reveal its preferences and to grasp the concept of budgeting.

Then Chen introduced price shocks and wealth shocks. If, for instance, the price of Jell-O fell (two cubes instead of one per token), would the capuchin buy more Jell-O and fewer grapes? The capuchins responded rationally to tests like this – that is, they responded the way most readers of The Times would respond. In economist-speak, the capuchins adhered to the rules of utility maximization and price theory: when the price of something falls, people tend to buy more of it.

Perhaps the most distinguishing characteristic of money, after all, is its fungibility, the fact that it can be used to buy not just food but anything. During the chaos in the monkey cage, Chen saw something out of the corner of his eye that he would later try to play down but in his heart of hearts he knew to be true. What he witnessed was probably the first observed exchange of money for sex in the history of monkeykind. (Further proof that the monkeys truly understood money: the monkey who was paid for sex immediately traded the token in for a grape.)

 No.75179

>>75175

>Even monkeys are prostitutes

Not surprised really. Most monkeys aren't stupid- they might not be as intelligent as a grown human, and they're too focused on survival to give a shit about higher needs, but they understand abstract concepts to an extent so of course they'd understand the relation of tokens and food.


 No.75182

>>75175

When do we corner the monkey market?


 No.75185

>>75182

After we finish teaching the Great Apes sign language/incorporate them into society. They can't be any worse than the niggers.


 No.75186

>>75185

>oy vey! ordinary niggers aren't enough, we need to flood white countries with apes too!

kys kike


 No.75193

Dice rollRolled 3, 6, 2, 4, 3, 6, 2 + 7 = 33 (7d7)

>>75186

Supposedly chimps are more sociable than niggers.


 No.75197

(((rationally)))


 No.75215

>>75175

How were monkeys given tokens by the researchers? Did they get a handful each day? Did they perform some task and get a token in return?

How common was it for the monkeys to steal tokens from each other?

I'd be interested in seeing how other primates respond to these tests. Hell, I want to see how other smart animals handle the tokens. Elephants, octopi, dolphins. That sort of thing.


 No.75220

>>75215

Read the article.

From what the article wrote, it seems they individually brought the monkeys into a separate area to give them the tokens from a tray, and then had the monkeys would have to use them right then and there- they couldn't hold on to them. The sex incident happened when one of the monkeys got the smart idea to run over, grab the entire tray of tokens, and fling it into the monkey pen. Instead of taking the tokens back, the dumb researchers decided to bribe the monkeys with even more food than usual to get all the tokens back- this lead to the monkeys who were supposed to be on the "stupider" side (really Capuchins are like fucking rats with hands and stronger grip strength) realizing they could perform a bank heist leading to more treats, so the monkeys started to "plan" ways to try and steal the tokens from that point onwards. It was during one of these "bank heists" that the researcher saw a monkey exchanging money for sex while he was haggling with the other monkeys. When the school found out what was going on they pretty much gave the researchers the ultimatum of getting their shit together or ending the experiment since they were worried that the results might be used as an argument in favor of prostitution. Actually they told them that prostitution was "unnatural" and they needed to keep the monkeys in a "natural" environment during the experiment.


 No.75222

>>75175

So now we need to re-title Human Action as just Action.


 No.75261

File: 2146bd19655a215⋯.jpg (1.02 MB, 1600x1200, 4:3, Blue_Jay-27527.jpg)

>>75222

Or maybe Monkey Action and admit that capitalism is inhumane and belongs to the lesser species.


 No.75263

File: 7d8a2e4ab2705ad⋯.gif (50.84 KB, 956x1299, 956:1299, rummel ussr democide 1917-….GIF)

>>75261

>Following an ideology responsible for the murder of a good one hundred million people

>Calling others inhumane


 No.75264

>>75263

>rummel

That guy is a joke. Just look at the deaths supposedly caused by the GDR. The GDR only sentenced a few people to death and the death at the border don't go beyond the hundreds, yet the guy claimed the GDR killed 70k people or something. He also doesn't make a difference between indirect and excessive deaths, so applying his own standard to capitalism would mean that capitalism kills 25 million people every five years which would exceed all of supposedly communist deaths within two decades.


 No.75265

>>75175

>that pic

Can I ask you guys something, what's with AnCaps/Libertarians and this silly Rothbard LARPing with the red bow tie?


 No.75270

File: 88ffd4cd8b4b72e⋯.png (240.42 KB, 368x639, 368:639, ClipboardImage.png)

>>75220

When do we establish central banking for monkeys?


 No.75272

>>75264

>That guy is a joke. Just look at the deaths supposedly caused by the GDR. The GDR only sentenced a few people to death and the death at the border don't go beyond the hundreds, yet the guy claimed the GDR killed 70k people or something.

He was also a pioneer in his field, who tried to assemble statistics for a hundred countries or so, spanning a range of a good hundred years. On some counts, he was quite accurate, as with the USSR and Red China, which have killed at the very least twenty million each. But I guess that was just bad weather.

>He also doesn't make a difference between indirect and excessive deaths, so applying his own standard to capitalism would mean that capitalism kills 25 million people every five years which would exceed all of supposedly communist deaths within two decades.

His standards are a little more complex than that. See this:

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.CHAP2.HTM

The one democidal act that you could possibly subsume these 25 million under would be this:

>(2.5) a famine or epidemic during which government authorities withhold aid, or knowingly act in a way to make it more deadly;

If we apply this to foreign governments that do not help in case of a famine or epidemic, then the communist governments fare no better than the capitalist ones, as they help (and helped) just as little, even less. The reason why we cannot apply it like that is because that would be overstretching the term "withhold", and possibly also "famine" and "epidemic". My guess is you just repeated a fancy talking point instead of ever checking yourself if you can subsume deaths from AIDS or cancer under his definition.

I sincerely hope that you had at least enough honor not to include deaths from smoking in your figure of 25 million. I've seen commies do that.


 No.75284

File: bd1b65d21acf59b⋯.png (1.58 MB, 1280x800, 8:5, ClipboardImage.png)

>>75265

He is based and that bow tie is what you call style.

What's with commies and this inbred Marx LARPing NEET?


 No.75291

File: 76658ea7e4cc9ba⋯.jpg (35.74 KB, 777x704, 777:704, big think.jpg)

>>75175

Monkeys using money to buy prostitutes huh…

sounds like detroit


 No.75294

>>75263

Did you just assume my ideology?


 No.75305

File: 8815c5be6b80f4f⋯.png (111.2 KB, 892x752, 223:188, poland and lithuania.png)

>>75175

>Janusz Korwin

>muh socialism

Funny how poland cries about socialism/communism so much claiming they were victims of it but if it werent for soviet "occupation" Poland today would look like a bleached african swamp with no infrastructure


 No.75326

>>75291

It really does, doesn't it? All that's missing is drugs.

>>75305

>poles aren't capable of doing shit for themselves

Vatnik gtfo


 No.75327

>>75326

>poles aren't capable of doing shit for themselves

>Vatnik gtfo

show me one example where poland constructed anything proper on their own


 No.75333

File: 5c0cf168ce287eb⋯.png (15.57 KB, 604x618, 302:309, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 9fdf50549e871ac⋯.png (46.35 KB, 400x300, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 068cb10f9573f40⋯.png (202.45 KB, 950x632, 475:316, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 569e0aa81c7fe3c⋯.png (43.68 KB, 860x650, 86:65, ClipboardImage.png)

>>75327

>show me one example

Vatnik. G-T-F-O. You're the one making the bold claim that it would look like a bleached african swamp if they didn't have communism.

I can only point at Finland which fortunately escaped the grasp of the Soviet Union and is now on par with the rest of Europe. They didn't have communism, and I doubt Poles are somehow much worse than Finns.


 No.75335

File: a570194968eb0db⋯.jpg (29.33 KB, 484x514, 242:257, polish.jpg)

>>75333

>cant post a single thing about poland building something by itself

>shitty rooster meme from krautchan

Lmao thanks for proving me right pshek


 No.75341

File: 0ffc635ac204fe0⋯.png (1.23 MB, 960x720, 4:3, 15171337224531.png)

>>75335

>can't make an argument without asking for proofs

>never provides proofs himself

You're welcome, vata.


 No.75343

File: c69693a5fadab2f⋯.png (132.43 KB, 261x454, 261:454, Finland heh 2.png)

>>75333

>I can only point at Finland which fortunately escaped the grasp of the Soviet Union and is now on par with the rest of Europe. They didn't have communism, and I doubt Poles are somehow much worse than Finns.

Finland aka 90% frozen swamp 10% depressed cities? Finland aka suicide capital of Europe?

>>75341

burden of proof is on you not on him tho, if you cant show anything of substance you are just shitposting


 No.75346

>>75343

I didn't know the guys at Savushkino could speak English, Finns are doing quite well for themselves in their frozen swamp, especially compared to USSR shitholes.


 No.75350

File: f783448de8ed1cf⋯.jpg (66.2 KB, 956x631, 956:631, 1420805094782.jpg)


 No.75351

File: 200156301d1015a⋯.jpg (50.71 KB, 663x377, 51:29, polish-parliament-guy-fawk….jpg)

>>75346

>dumb pshek still thinks only russians dont like polish parasites


 No.75352

File: 8053934b33f3860⋯.png (272.52 KB, 400x600, 2:3, oyveybitcoin.png)

>>75175

>>>/pol/ is not gonna like this as it shows the transcendental nature of money and suggests that our system can accomplish what they don't want to admit: that even creatures lesser than niggers can be civilized given a system of rational incentives imposed by their cognitive betters. Lack of ability to plan long term does not preclude one from participation in an open economy, it just means you will never be in a position to influence the trajectory of society. Perfect.


 No.75354

File: a9468d8673f29fd⋯.jpg (79.31 KB, 749x392, 107:56, 15170867463441.jpg)

>>75351

>pshek

И опять обосрался.


 No.75355

>>75352

>he thinks /pol/ cares about an open economy

>he thinks /pol/ even knows what an economy is

Actually, /pol/ will love it because it proves that niggers act just like monkeys - capable of using money, but incapable of making good long-term decisions. Whether it's a good thing to have these mindless consumers or not, that's the main question.




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