No.75160
The /pol/acks want to start their colonies around the world, why don't we plan for our own promised land?
If an initial amount of 100 of us got together, how and where could we make Ancapistan exist and what would encourage you, personally, to leave the life you have and move over there? Surely a place to live, work and do business without any interference from the state would be attractive enough already to a lot of people, so I'm not sure if it's necessary to shill for it, but it's not really an economy until we get about 10 000 people living there.
No.75162
No.75163
>>75160
We do have actual projects underway as we speak. Some are still rather small and are just starting out, while others like the Honduras project are coming across some red tape. We at least have physical projects unlike /pol/ who only has dreams.
No.75230
These ideas are always terrible. Just look at what happened with the Galt's Gulch scheme in Chile. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of people had millions of dollars ripped off.
No.75231
>>75230
Why do you wave the commie flag?
I'd like to see it happen, OP, but like this anon said it's not bloody likely. Whether it's Galt's Gulch, or the Free State Project, these things have a tendency to fall into themselves or be made ineffective by stoners and libertines infiltrating them.
No.75243
>>75230
More practical than anything socialism has done that's for sure.
No.75259
I always wondered why Libertarians spend so much time praising their imagined systems but other than agorism (even which comes from a guy who claimed to be left-wing) they have no realistic plans of implementing it in practice. All their dreams are secessionist, like they unconsciously understand that their system cannot work, but secretly hope that building a new society up from scratch, done by the right people, will somehow sidestep the problems. But I think a more likely explanation is that they simply don't want it in practice, they only want to act like smartasses and smugly tell everyone how cool their basic economics are while ignoring that it's actually shit.
No.75260
>>75230
>the commie thinks ripping of wealthy people is shit
No.75268
No.75274
>>75259
Agorism is not realistic enough? We are already witnessing the collapse of fiat, the implementation of school vouchers, crypto, and the rise of tax havens.
No.75282
>>75259
Because AnCap policy is subtle and has more to do with setting groundwork for when the traditional system fails, so even trying to change it directly is a slow process because of initial investment. The strength comes from AnCaps being able to work well with others, which Commies/NEETSocs don't get. AnCaps have been successfully running/spreading a lot of the efforts to get the death penalty abolished in Nebraska for instance, and were partially involved with its abolishment in Minnesota. Like a ma' and pa' business, it doesn't grow into a multinational business overnight (or it doesn't survive the process anyways). 2/10, got me to respond to the bait.
No.75283
>>75282
>AnCaps have been successfully running/spreading a lot of the efforts to get the death penalty abolished in Nebraska for instance, and were partially involved with its abolishment in Minnesota.
How has that got anything to do with libertarianism? What else are we supposed to abolish?
No.75285
>>75283
>t.newfag
Lurk more pls
No.75286
>>75285
Yes yes, I'm a newfag, but I thought in a libertarian country, people can choose their own laws without a federal government imposing anything on them?
No.75288
>>75231
>Why do you fly the commie flag?
i am testing a theory
If you want to succeed in an experiment like this you need to find people who are trustworthy, and not only that, you need people who can actually work and achieve goals. The only big difference between this kind of project and an ordinary business venture is that if you build a libertarian colony in international waters you will need to find a way to enforce contracts and protect property that can not rely on foreign states. Organizing a community is extremely difficult and even if you succeed financially you may have to deal with significant problems unrelated to that.
No.75289
>>75286
I will admit that the death penalty position is not shared equally among all libertarians and ancaps. Here is a good look at the issue.
https://mises.org/library/libertarian-position-capital-punishment
The abolishment of the state is our long game. The death penalty as it is currently, can be seen and should be seen, as an extension of the state. As such we throw it in our bag of short to medium goals which include the abolishment of the drug war, the welfare state, taxes etc. Btw, I was just giving you shit. Welcome to the board.
No.75295
>>75274
Agorism sounds pretty cool until you realize that the maffia and the state are pretty much the same things.
No.75316
>>75283
>How has that got anything to do with libertarianism?
Whether you agree that a limited state shouldn't be involved with choosing who dies or not, or you just look at the hard economic numbers, the Death Penalty is either a violation of the NAP, or it's wasteful government spending to the extreme compared even to life in prison sentences. Average death penalty process from start to finish will run the government just short of $100,000 more per year compared to the total costs of life in prison.
>>75286
The goal of a libertarian country is to limit the powers of the state, that is, the entire state, not just the federal government. The reason so many libertarians get so caught up on the federal government is because it's far more overarching than state governments, typically funds or pressures state governments into being authoritarian, and the fact that state governments generally wouldn't be able to afford half the shit they propose if not for federal backing/funding (see: California's spending about $368 billion federal dollars more than it pays back per year).
>>75287
Don't you have a banana to shove up your ass or something?
No.75317
>>75295
If your understanding of Agorism is the Mafia/Cartels, then you're not doing it right. I've got a mentor practicing it without even realizing it because he does his technician work under-the-table for cash and doesn't list it on his taxes. I think his model was he knows he'll get ~1/3rd of his income stolen anyways, so he offers a 15% discount if the business pays in cash/doesn't report it to the IRS.
No.75330
>>75289
Well ok, that makes more sense.
No.75331
>>75160
>a place to live, work and do business without any interference from the state would be attractive enough already to a lot of people
you're going to get invaded for being a tax haven, in addition you need enough capital to have an actual economy. Unless we go there with PCs to start meme production I'm not sure what /liberty/ can really do without the market for it.
No.75334
>>75331
>you're going to get invaded for being a tax haven
Not if we have nuclear weapons)))
No.75353
>>75331
Perhaps we could have it as an open port for trade? That and maybe set up some financial services?
No.75421
>>75353
In order for Ancapistan to be a success the logistics and the communications to the area are essential. If we provided financial or other electronic services the logistics might not be as important for economic purposes of goods delivery if the area can sustain a population and power generation.
No.75440
>>75421
Well, the first step would be to get dry land somewhere very close to first-world countries, but not too far from third-world countries, preferably somewhere in the Mediterranean. The second step would be to round up all the migrants from the third world to use as slave-labour to grow large amounts of soy products for the first-world. If we sell them at high prices then the stupid soyboys and bugmen would have no choice but to buy them since price = quality in their atrophied minds.
Maybe we could even research genetically modified soy-fish to release into the oceans and harvest for profits.
No.75451
>>75440
So it'd be like rapture but it floats isntead of being beneath the ocean.
No.75456
>>75331
>You're going to be invaded
No, just "accidentally" rammed by a cargo freighter/oil tanker, and have "humanitarian aid" establish a semi-permanent regime/deal with whoever the largest shareholders are.
No.75457
>>75440
I always get a kick out of oceanfags obsession with aquatic life. The majority of open sea is uninhabited because there's nothing there other than maybe the occasional algae bloom/jellyfish. Pretty much all (sunlight zone) life lives about 250 miles from the coast with maybe a few exceptions like the Gulf of Mexico.
>tfw terrified of open bodies of water nonetheless
>tfw games like subnautica are nightmare-tier shit I worry about whenever I'm in open waters
When you've seen the kinda shit that thrives in deep Rivers and Coastlines up close, open ocean might actually seem a lot safer all things considered.
No.75460
>>75440
Looks like a recipe for a new disaster movie. Imagine being in one of those while the structure is flooding.
No.75475
>>75460
>Looks like a recipe for a new disaster movie. Imagine being in one of those while the structure is collapsing.
No.75477
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>75475
Yeah I know, but I can't help but get flashbacks from this Jaws 3-D scene when I think of the underwater one.
No.75513
>>75440
>get dry land somewhere very close to first-world countries, but not too far from third-world countries, preferably somewhere in the Mediterranean.
Liberland?
No.75546
>>75451
>So it'd be like rapture but it floats isntead of being beneath the ocean.
Yes, and instead of our citizens being a bunch degenerates addicted to ADAM, they will be a bunch of soyboys addicted to SOY.
>>75457
>I always get a kick out of oceanfags obsession with aquatic life.
I always get a kick out of injecting pure soy into my bloodstream. Oceans are potentially more habitable than deserts, but if you want, I doubt any government would object to letting a bunch of rednecks pinch a piece of the Sahara desert for themselves, though I'm not sure how you plan on growing soybeans in such an environment.
>>75513
Liberland would be an excellent place if it weren't cucked between Serbia and Croatia and if it was actually easy to reach, and also, what happens when both countries claim the land and decide to double penetrate it? Who says they can't? Buying an island or making one yourself is much more effective when it comes to dealing with neighbors.
No.75581
>>75546
Why do you want a soy-based oceanic society? It's much more profitable to farm algae
No.75597
>>75581
Well, someone has to destroy the white race.
No.75599
>>75581
Soy corrupts genes and makes them more Jewish. It really is an epidemic of biblical proportions.
No.75623
>>75546
What about this desert shithole?
No.75625
>>75623
Made a thread about that a while back. The concerns were that it was wedged between two nations with endless supply of Islamic militants.
No.75627
>>75623
Same shit as Liberland, except it's in an even more dangerous location, and besides, apparently it was already claimed by some monarchist faggot.
No.75629
>>75627
At least a coastal are would be nice since even if you are wedged deep between some totalitarian asshole you will still be able to enter and escape via sea.
No.75631
>>75629
The Danube river is treated as an international waterway, so you can bitch up a storm if anyone tries to stop you from using it. They probably wouldn't listen, but it's better than being trapped in the fucking desert by two much bigger countries that hate your guts.
No.75633
>>75631
True, but this is what I don't understand, people, including the president, keep getting arrested trying to cross through Croatia, why can't they get a boat and sail there?
No.75636
>>75268
Does anybody know anything about liberstad?
No.75950
>>75949
Who is that semen demon, and where can I find one of my own?
No.75954
>>75950
>Who is that semen demon
Your average thot.
>where can I find one of my own?
At the slave market.
No.75983
>>75160
Guaranteed space to live, the ability to come and go as I please, and an internet connection. Get me those three things and Ill be on the next boat to Atlantistan
No.75991
The thing with ancapistan is that it isn't reverse-scalable, because markets inevitably work best at larger, more global gradations of labor and capital. Like how communes can't function if you put more than a relatively small, close community in them, but in reverse. Something like an NRx Restoration (of, say, the US) into a stateless, privatized Patchwork is your best bet.
No.75992
>>75991
>The thing with ancapistan is that it isn't reverse-scalable
It's very much possible to get a sophisticated and high-volume market with relatively little real estate in modern times. Just look at the tax-haven city-states like Monaco.
No.76055
What do anons think of Svalbard? It's neutral territory for economic purposes.
>The Svalbard Treaty (originally the Spitsbergen Treaty) recognises the sovereignty of Norway over the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard, at the time called Spitsbergen. The exercise of sovereignty is, however, subject to certain stipulations, and not all Norwegian law applies. The treaty regulates the demilitarisation of the archipelago. The signatories were given equal rights to engage in commercial activities (mainly coal mining) on the islands. As of 2012, Norway and Russia are making use of this right.
>Uniquely, the archipelago is an entirely visa-free zone under the terms of the Svalbard Treaty.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Treaty
No.76060
>>76055
Norway takes it's ownership of Svalbard very seriously. They'll flip shit if you try to take it from them.
No.76067
>>75546
>Liberland would be an excellent place if it weren't cucked between Serbia and Croatia and if it was actually easy to reach, and also, what happens when both countries claim the land and decide to double penetrate it? Who says they can't?
Do you know anything about the political situation between Croatia and Serbia? They hate each other with a passion. For them to claim Liberland as their own territory would be to invalidate their claims to disputed land on each other's bank of the river. For them to do such a thing over a tiny piece of land, let alone team up, is a childish fantasy. They know what the consequences are of invading Liberland. And considering Croatia's actions in Liberland, Serbia might use that as an excuse to take further action in the border dispute.
The Danube river serves as an international waterway to Liberland, so access is not a problem.
>Buying an island or making one yourself is much more effective when it comes to dealing with neighbors.
Why hasn't Richard Branson or anyone else who's bought and owned islands founded their own jurisdictions? This is a myth that needs to be put to an end - Buying an island does not confer sovereignty, anymore than you can start your own country by buying a plot of land.
Creating your own islands is a viable solution though. Blue Frontiers is starting to do so with French Polynesia. It'll take time, but once the pilot is proven to be viable, the industry for private jurisdictions and seasteads will explode.
No.76068
>>75633
They can and have, in fact, they're anchoring houseboats on the Danube near Liberland, so when Croatia fucks off, they can settle the land.
No.76090
>>76055
Its dark for half the year and bright for half the year
Polar night is a bitch
Also the ground is so solid and frigid that they can't bury people so anyone who gets sick can't stay there and gets flown out to the mainland
And there's polar bears
There was a group dedicated to do an experiment with settling in Greenland but they decided to buy land in Finland instead.
No.76115
No.76147
>>76060
When did we want to seize it from Norway?
No.76150
>>76055
Sorry m8, but the commies already beat us there. Pic related.
No.76154
>>76150
How about Finland?
>The Åland Islands or Åland (Swedish: Åland, IPA: [ˈoːland]; Finnish: Ahvenanmaa) is an archipelago province at the entrance to the Gulf of Bothnia in the Baltic Sea belonging to Finland. It is autonomous, demilitarised and is the only monolingually Swedish-speaking region in Finland. It is the smallest region of Finland, constituting 0.49% of its land area and 0.50% of its population.
>Åland's autonomous status means that those provincial powers normally exercised by representatives of the central Finnish government are largely exercised by its own government.
No.76160
>>76154
Looks like shit straight out of a Morrowind game. It doesn't look like a tax haven though, looks like Finland's laws, and thus taxes, apply there.
No.76163
>>76154
Damn, each one of us could have our own island!
No.76170
>>76160
Can we seize any of these offshore tax havens?
No.76177
>>76170
>Japan and New Zealand are tax havens
I never knew this.
No.76194
>>76150
>Sorry m8, but the commies already beat us there. Pic related.
WE SHOULD LIBERATE THEM RIGHT NOW! CHAOS AND INVADE!!!!1
No.76197
>>76163
I'm calling dibs on the big one.
No.76216
Those projects are useless for the most part, the real revolution is underway through cryptocurrencies.
Once you have decentralized, anonymous and secure cryptos (already exist, for example monero and zcash) and a decentralized, anonymous and secure exchange where you could buy and sell assets (other currencies, securities, bonds, and general assets, ofc all in form of crypto tokens; not sure if something like this exists already), it is only a matter of time before the power of the state starts to diminish.
This because those technologies will make it pretty much impossible to enforce taxation and thus with diminishing monetary inputs the state will necessarily have to decrease its spending, to the point of having minimal control and power.
Another thing from cryptos that is highly compatible with (crypto)anarcho-capitalism are smart contracts. with which one can enforce a monetary transaction if the conditions of the contract are met.
On a last note, but of lesser importance and not necessarily relevant to cryptos, i think that open-source technologies in general (both software and hardware, check open source ecology and open building institute for example) are another powerful tool for shifting the power from the state to the individual (and i think they can give the final blow to a minimal state post-crypto revolution).
Essentially my point is that there is no need of building from zero an ancap society in some god forsaken place; the solution is technical, it comes (and is coming) from technology. So lets put efforts in using and investing in those technologies instead of unrealistic ocean city projects.
No.76223
>>76216
Let's have crypto but also ocean cities. Sea cities are bad ass.
No.76319
>>76223
You know what's even more badass than sea cities? Underground cities.
>tfw dig cities below the world's financial centres
>tfw dig networks all around the world
>tfw take over the world in a sudden and unexpected revolution and install a libertarian dictatorship
No.76337
>>76319
What about skycities?
No.76343
>>76337
Hell yeah, groundfags BTFO!
No.76348
>>76319
Underground city? More like underwater city!