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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 7a8ee6c7014bdbf⋯.webm (2.89 MB, 818x840, 409:420, 1504506621732.webm)

 No.66518

Since you guys are against regulations, should kids have access on hormone pills and let boys be more feminine?

 No.66519

No. Parents don't have a right to poison their kids.


 No.66523

>>66518

>should kids have access on hormone pills and let boys be more feminine?

Ask your local landlord.


 No.66525

>>66518

Also, fuck's that got to do with regulations? When libertarians say they're against regulations, they don't mean that they're against all forms of law. We obviously want a common law that pertains to all legal cases, just one that's not legislated. Abstract, non-arbitrary principles that apply to all cases equally, not ten thousand pages of extra-rules that are mostly bureaucratic in nature, arbitrary, and utterly forgettable.

Ask yourself one simple question: When was the last time you heard a politician or a judge talk about regulations pertaining to fraud or murder? That would be extremely odd and uncommon. Technically, you probably could use the word that way under some definitions, but no one does.


 No.66527

File: e90d5895d52921d⋯.gif (647.57 KB, 358x506, 179:253, samefag.gif)


 No.66530

>>66527

Ehm… no.


 No.66532

>>66530

That just makes it more pathetic. Do you think your local landlord could declare murder to be legal, too? In that case, I suggest you read, well, anything on libertarian theory, because you clearly don't know shit.


 No.66533

>>66532

Ok, i'll do it, just stop arguing and accusing me. I never told you nothing.


 No.66535

>>66533

Don't fucking test me, cracker.


 No.66549

>>66518

Pharmacies should sell what the consumer wants. If I can drink drain cleaner at my discretion, why can't I buy hormones or narcotics?


 No.66554

>>66518

Over-the-counters would be unregulated because its the consumers responsibility to be up-to-date on the medications/other shit they put into their body.

In the case of doctor's prescribing it and helping with the transition, it would be under the doctors discretion as to if he considers it ethical, so again wholly un-regulated. If you have a doctor who for some reason sees helping you transition to be against his Hippocratic oath and you disagree with him, you are free to find a new doctor who agrees with y0u are is at least willing to let you transition.


 No.66557

>>66525

Access and use of pills is regulated, just like fire-arms are regulated.

Without legislation, it seems like there would be nothing stopping people from selling these pills to whomever, come who may.

You might not like bureaucracy but did you ever consider that these laws might be serving some necessary function?


 No.66562

File: de097fd08712a70⋯.gif (80.98 KB, 182x249, 182:249, smhtbhfam.gif)

>>66549

This and

>>66523

This.

A kid obviously couldn't afford to buy hormones, so the list of hierarchy would go something like…

1) Landlord's/HOA's rules

If your lease says you can't drug up your kids on hormones, you can't drug up your kids on hormones. Well, I mean you can, but you'll get kicked out.

2) The Pharmacy

If the pharmacy says you can't drug up your kids on hormones, you can't drug up your kids on hormones (unless you find an alternative pharmacy willing to do it*).

3) The Kid

If the kid says he/she doesn't want to be drugged up on hormones, since this is a non-necessary medical procedure, the kid would win in court if the parents tried to force the kid to drug up on hormones.

4) The Parent

After the landlord has cleared it, the pharmacy you're buying the hormones from has cleared it, and the child has cleared it, the next step is for the parent to clear it.

5) The Community/The Child's Advocate

Technically you don't need their approval, but failure to attain it could lead to attempted lawsuits (translating into time and money spent in court/on lawyers), lack of access to community resources (such as being denied access to the grocery store), etc.

Should kids have access to hormone pills? I very much disagree as being a gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should be treated as such when the evidence shows giving in to the victim's demands tends to lead to suicide and other measures that clearly suggest the underlying problems of the mental illness were never solved. There are very rare instances, but from an ethical standpoint, giving kids drugs of any kind unless absolutely necessary is a horrible thing to do.

From a legal standpoint though, as I've explained above, that's the "legal hierarchy" in this matter. Sure you can ignore your landlord, but then you'll get kicked out. Sure you can (technically) ignore the pharmacies in town, but then you've simply substituted the pharmacy's lack of consent with the consent of another pharmacy. Sure you can (technically) ignore your own child as you forcefully inject them with hormones, but this paves the way for agents of the community to label you as a child abuser. Sure you can even technically ignore the community, but going back to the first few points, there's nothing stopping court systems from being different from anarchist town to town, and thus the poly-court system in one town might find you guilty of child abuse and might have measures in place to counteract such abuse (these could range anywhere from telling you to GTFO, to heavy fees, to having your children taken away. It depends entirely on the community and court systems in place).


 No.66570

>>66518

That's the best part of a libertarian society. Getting legal boypussy without going to jail.


 No.66572

File: 259037877bdf6c5⋯.gif (634.15 KB, 500x300, 5:3, 1447647485455.gif)

>>66557

Electrical code is regulated but the regulation is literally "follow this NGO's codebook because they did a good job of it and 70% of the industry already followed it as best practice anyways."

That is to say, there could very well be something stopping people from selling these pills to whomever because of the fear of losing their certifications/private licensing if they do. Now being a witch doctor/quack pharmacist might not be an issue for some due to the cash flow, but the incentives (legal backing of other doctors against lawsuits, up-to-date learning materials about the effects of various drugs, etc.) suggest that even if these behaviors were theoretically allowed, in practice they would largely dissipate into very rare corners of society or be obliterated over time.


 No.66574

Without a socialized pension system your children are part of your retirement investment. You don't want them to turn into social freaks that won't be able to support you at your old age. But I'm not ancap after all, I believe in child protection and if parents force kids to participate in sexual depravity they should get the kids taken away from them.


 No.66585

>>66557

>Without legislation, it seems like there would be nothing stopping people from selling these pills to whomever, come who may.

There is. Even if the sale of pills or firearms is completely unregulated, you cannot sell them to little kids or to parents that you know want to use them on their kids, just as a taxi driver cannot drive a bunch of armed robbers away without being an accessory to their crime. This is a simple application of the law.

>You might not like bureaucracy but did you ever consider that these laws might be serving some necessary function?

I studied law in university and taught myself economics at the same time. I believe I thought this out more than you did, and my conclusions are that there is virtually no case where regulations serve a legitimate function. Either they squander resources that would be better used elsewhere, or they're superfluous. Superfluous because the basic civil and criminal law, if you apply it correctly, already prohibits whatever behavior the regulations are designed to eliminate.

>just like fire-arms are regulated.

Back when they weren't regulated, you still couldn't shoot your kids with them. Yet it should be different with drugs when they're unregulated?

>>66562

>Sure you can (technically) ignore your own child as you forcefully inject them with hormones, but this paves the way for agents of the community to label you as a child abuser.

Ever considered that children cannot consent to having their yet undeveloped bodies destroyed, or to be turned into freaks? You cannot fulfill your boys wish of injecting him with chemicals that will atrophy his genitals and make him grow breasts. Cutting off two of his fingers on one hand would be less harmful and everybody would prohibit that, so why is the case different when the mutilation is done chemically?


 No.66588

File: 5c8fd2c130d3ef4⋯.gif (74.12 KB, 480x270, 16:9, pounding meat.gif)

>>66570

>tfw I know the artist behind that pic.


 No.66594

>>66585

>Ever considered that children cannot consent to having their yet undeveloped bodies destroyed, or to be turned into freaks?

How could you be sure about that? How a children will recognize the difference between a drug or a medicine if i don't teach them what is harmful?


 No.66596

File: de3b3548f43a7f2⋯.png (995.36 KB, 965x877, 965:877, the_hell.png)

>>66594

>How a children

>a children


 No.66598

>>66594

Just so you know, your comment is fucking incomprehensible. I'm not learning russian just so I know what the fuck you want from me.


 No.66604

File: 69281e624fe0f1c⋯.jpg (35.13 KB, 451x559, 451:559, gay.jpg)

>>66572

>losing their certifications/private licensing if they do.

A licensing authority which let doctors sell sex change drugs to parents would have more customers, wouldn't it? The doctor could make more money that way.

Alright maybe some conservative parents wouldn't like the idea, but the doctor wouldn't be forcing them to do anything so I don't see where the market pressure would come from, especially compared to how much the liberal parents would pay to turn their kid into the right sex.

>>66585

Puberty already changes your body massively. Drugs which stop a female-gendered man from turning into a physical man might be seen as a medicine to prevent a permanent change.

It seems that the parents should be the ones making the choice, rather than forbidding all these types of drugs and operations just because the person is a kid when it happens. A lot of it has to be done in childhood for the best result.


 No.66618

>>66518

yes yes yes


 No.68647

>>66518

Yeah; I think all drugs (all substances really, in general - I'm against laws prohibiting owning any substance) should be able to be bought over the counter.


 No.68662

>>66518

They should be on the market without gatekeepers, but that doesn't abolish the consent issue which makes this conduct abusive on the part of virtue-signalling lefties.

>>66519

This

>>66572

And this

If the seller is willing to sell (for reputational reasons or reasons of personal conviction they might not be), let kids sneak out and express their own will by buying things they shouldn't have.

>>66604

Why would you purchase from a pharmacist who sells drugs unethically? If you KNOW this, if it's ON RECORD, you go somewhere else. Billions of people in the world, no need to stick with an unethical pharmacist. Unethical pharmacists are like unethical journalists - their product doesn't sell. Unlike unethical journalists, they don't even have a default platform to bitch about it with.


 No.68672

>>68662

I buy from immoral companies all the time. So does everyone.


 No.69084

>>66519

is giving adderall poisoning?


 No.69085

>>69084

>tfw Poland is on /monarchy/, too

Is one board not enough to shit up?


 No.75309

no. hormone pills to make women more masculine, yes.




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