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/liberty/ - Liberty

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 7528b655c7f4c17⋯.jpg (16.48 KB, 1000x667, 1000:667, anarcho transhumanism.jpg)

 No.55121

(Why is there no anarcho-transhumanist flag?)

It seems to me that technology is the only way to achieve true anarchism. I know a lot of anarcho-transhumanists/antechs are leftist, but honestly technology could lead to the means of production becoming robots that are cryptographically verified as belonging to you, so private property would be able to defend itself. Capitalism is an economic technology itself. I think in the future, we could all be capitalists and design shit and then use our personal robot workers to make stuff to sell to each other, in a totally mutual capitalist economy, and there would also be a lot of things people could make with 3D printers/additive manufacturing machines once they get really advanced. Sounds absurd now, but with how fast companies in China are automating shit, it's the long term trend and it seems like it's not super far off now. Some statists are starting to use this to argue for ubi or even communism, but I think the end of direct work will actually involve widespread advancement into everyone being capitalistic. Even now a lot of people work from their computers, a means of production they own.

Another thing is that with full automation welfare wouldn't be needed, because charity would become exponential (sort of, it would be limited by resources and land obviously), since as soon as you can get a human level robot and a super-advanced 3D printer, you get free income from the capital you own, and can then use that to gather resources and energy to build more robots, so everyone's living standards would shoot way up, and things would get pretty comfy.

The primary sticking block to anarcho-capitalism is that most people are too weak for it, but with technology that could change, because things would be a lot cheaper, and there would be high levels of automation, but potentially down the line due to transhumanism meaning that rugged individualism doesn't involve a massive culling of people who aren't rugged enough for it. That's the only way I can see the majority of the public eventually coming round to anarcho-capitalism and slowly abandoning statism, because most people want to be free, they are just too weak and frightened to be anything but slaves to politicians.

Obviously, wealth inequality would increase massively with transhumanism, but none of that shit matters if living standards as a whole rise massively, and the incapable are able to gain new capabilities through technology.

So, I think we'll have to wait a while until an anarchist society is likely, but in the meantime we should probably make sure that we at least push back against centralized militaristic government so that we don't get some kind of skynet scenario due to the military industrial complex. Statism would make AI more dangerous because it would centralize it and put in control of more things, leaving no counterbalancing intelligence. The libertarian party should probably promote upcoming technologies as solutions to the government problem. If you think about it, cryptocurrencies and existing (if shitty) 3D printers are just the start of that movement. That's going to be the successful way of getting libertarianism to be popular, in preparation for future technologies that make take us to anarchy.

We definitely shouldn't let commies monopolize the full automation meme, otherwise they'll be positioned politically to take over later in this Century.

 No.55122

File: 60529e5c82e5dff⋯.jpg (138.35 KB, 938x529, 938:529, we don't need roads where ….jpg)

>>55121

And there needs to be more memes that play off this.


 No.55126

File: 3062ca008f38412⋯.jpg (50.84 KB, 371x400, 371:400, shodan.jpg)

this is a joke right?

if not god help us…


 No.55130

I would also like a crypto-anarchist flag but I'm always too lazy to make it, as well as make a high-effort thread specifically about the topic.

With how the future looks, I'm equally excited for technology facilitating anarcho-capitalism as I am scared of the future botnet. Technology could free us or enslave us and I'm not really sure which it will be these days. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic.


 No.55131

>>55130

>Technology could free us or enslave us and I'm not really sure which it will be these days. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

Depends on how it's used. If the security state that currently exists gets really advanced AI it's going to keep it to itself and use it to control everything. The perfect statism.

Heaven or hell, that's up to us.


 No.55138

>>55121

Is anyone writing any transhumanism stories? I have a mind to write one about a future where computer implants would turn someone into a genius. Imagine having a good OS on inside your head.


 No.55140

>>55138

Me, or I would if I had the time for it right now.


 No.55195

File: 89f5b984707dd34⋯.jpg (13.11 KB, 252x223, 252:223, 1454386889405.jpg)

I always thought an-transhumanism was the next natural step if an ancap society

fuck these commies trying to steal our robots


 No.55203

File: 2d2e007dfe93a5d⋯.png (45.97 KB, 498x827, 498:827, growth is really important.png)

File: 8ea88dfa741a139⋯.jpg (42.82 KB, 444x338, 222:169, someone make a good versio….jpg)

>>55195

They've already stolen the future we could have had.


 No.55205

>>55203

Economic growth is a religion. I would rather have intellectual growth over economic growth after a certain point, otherwise you can get a military industrial complex, fat bankers, or consumerist slaves who replace their tv and phone every two years while funding reality shows.


 No.55210

>>55205

Economic growth isn't just phones. It allows us to do more in general. Economic growth isn't a religion, because it's just something that economies do. There's no such thing as a steady state economy, because improvements in various fields of life are always being thought up. Intellectual growth leads to economic growth if the intellectuals are actually thinking about useful things.

Obviously, growth has limits, but we can naturally reach those however high they are. It's better than being held back to a lower level of development by overregulation of the market.

No will have any time for intellectual growth if we collapse backwards into a venezuela tier nightmare.


 No.55214

>>55210

I am simply not for GDP worship. Speeches about improving the GDP are retarded once you know how GDP is calculated and start paying attention to other indicators such as health, life expectancy, infrastructure, efficiency, hours worked, education, or simply quality of life. GDP does not factor in non-paid hours such as if you spend your free time improving and increasing the size of your house, adding art, doing unpaid research, and generally not making your front lawn look like embarrassing dump to the neighbors.

GDP worship leads to statism as you try to make every single thing be captured under GDP, usually through laws and policies. Both businesses and governments worship GDP, which is a proxy for the economy.


 No.55215

File: 8ced57c2cfece64⋯.jpg (187.36 KB, 500x399, 500:399, pray_to_the_suplier_139431….jpg)

Unlike you libertarians I do not pray to the invisible hand because it doesn't exist! That is why it does not seem to answer my prayers.


 No.55218

>>55214

I think the other anon is right about economic growth in principle, but I wouldn't quantify it, for the reasons you mentioned.

>>55215

>I do not believe in an obvious metaphor for market mechanisms!

How very enlightened of you.


 No.55247

>>55214

GDP is a poor economic metric anyway due to the inclusion of government expenditure.


 No.55264

>>55205

Intellect is necessary to competition. Consumerism is the result of psychological tactics in marketing, not necessarily a lack of intellect. The hyper-statist system is the one that demands sheepish idiots. There's a reason they coined the term "Useful Idiot".

>>55214

Given that GDP is the epitome of collectivism or a collectivist mindset, it's only natural that it's a failure at capturing nuance. All you've really done is identify a problem every libertarian has noticed. There's no point in "tracking" economic growth given that it occurs naturally so long as competition is in place.

>>55215

>dumb religious metaphor

And this is coming from me…

>implying libertarianism is pro-formalized banking.

>implying banking has anything to do with the natural outcome of competition other than a means of semi-secured storage

How new are you?

>>55218

>I think the other anon is right about economic growth in principle, but I wouldn't quantify it, for the reasons you mentioned.

If anything, all the reasons he mentioned are just means that when taken collectively could be used to quantify it. The main issue with GDP is that it puts the focus of all economic theory solely on the Transaction, and holds all other things constant. We could quantify economic growth by taking into account all of these things, but highly decentralized governments can only preform the most simplistic tasks, so they do everything in black and white.

>How very enlightened of you.

>enlightened

TRIGGERED

:^)

>>55247

Also this. Any government expenditure should be counted as a net loss rather than a net gain. GDP is a pro-Keynesian measurement.

On the overall topic of this thread however, I think trans-humanism seems disturbingly Orwellian, nihlistic, materialistic, and generally kind of horrifying… But what ever, do you.


 No.55311

>>55247

name better one


 No.55312

>>55311

Interest rates


 No.55313


 No.55315

>>55313

>GPI

they take into accoun victimless crimes


 No.55338

>>55315

Like black markets? What is wrong with that?


 No.55361

>>55338

the more victimless crime the better while gps says otherwise


 No.55607

>>55121

Hey there is a mod for minecraft where you make your self become a transhuman.

https://mods.curse.com/mc-mods/minecraft/248042-cyberware


 No.55629

>>55607

>autismcraft

no thanks


 No.55909

only libertarian transhumanism is true transhumanism


 No.56436

>>55121

>wealth inequality

Don't worry about this shit. Income inequality has become a phrase the left has used increasingly over the years to virtue signal. Income mobility is what is most important.


 No.56617

>>55214

> quality of life.

how can this be measured?


 No.57032

>>55138

As long as it doesn't run Windows.


 No.57059

>>55909

>god tier content

THIS.


 No.57064

>>57032

In the future, brain implants will run PonyOS

http://www.ponyos.org


 No.57582

are you taking any nootropics guys?


 No.57586

>>57582

I use NeuroStim from Mindnutrition.com.


 No.57588

>>57582

No, but I plan to try them. Guayusa, gingko, ginseng and noopept are on my list. Some anon advised me to be careful with synthetic stuff, so I won't take those regularly.


 No.57589

>>57588

Be more careful with herbal stuff. When you take medical grade drugs, you know exactly what's going into your body. When you consume plants, you're taking in all sorts of other shit, including things you may not want, and may be harmful in doses that correspond to the desired dose of the active compound. For example, nicotine in patch or vapor form is far safer than any form of tobacco.


 No.57596

We need this as a flag, board owner. I'm pretty sure I identify more as anarcho-transhumanist than ancap. Thanks. I'm not OP by the way.


 No.57635

>>57586

>This product is no longer available.

https://mn-nootropics.com/formulas/8-neurostim

:/


 No.57637

>>57635

Are you trying to order into US? Sometimes the US store is out of stock for a bit.


 No.57638

>>57635

Order from their main site which is the UK one. I just ordered a bottle and paid through PayPal and I am in the US.


 No.57640

>>57589

Thanks for the advice, anon! Although I do feel a little cheated that neither herbal nor synthetic stuff are that safe. Oh well.


 No.57769

>>57637

into poland


 No.57778

>>57640

Protip: everything is a drug. Cheese is a drug, lettuce is a drug, everything. My point wasn't to scare you away from psychoactives, it was to encourage you to do your due diligence in researching the things you put into your body. Don't fall into the trap of thinking any drug is entirely safe or entirely unsafe.

It's your job to know exactly how much of what you're taking (KNOW THE PURITY, and I'd suggest you get an independent analysis rather than just trusting the dealer/manufacturer), what the acute and chronic effects are, what will happen if you miss a dose or take too much, etc. This homework is easier with synthesized compounds, but just because it's synthetic doesn't make it safe. If you're thinking of using the common racetams (pi-, ani-, oxy-), there's all sorts of data for you to make an informed dosing plan. If you get your hands on a sample of PRL-8-147, I'd suggest that you think twice before you snort it to see what happens.


 No.57782

>>57769

Try not ordering from the EU store and order instead from the UK store, so that it will be airmailed to Poland. I always order from UK store when the US one is out of stock. Just means a little longer wait.


 No.57849

>>57582

modafinil 200mg/day


 No.57850

>>57640

a lot of either is safe is many doses

however there is a glaring lack of research i.e. formal, academic trials. instead you have have anecdotal evidence scattered across the internet.

the stuff may be safe, the point is you are on the bleeding edge of science - with all the drawbacks and advantages youd expect


 No.57863

>>57849

bought legally?


 No.57940

>>57863

nope (assuming you recognize the legislature of your country)

http://hansamkt2rr6nfg3.onion/listing/14259

(requires TOR)

although getting an adhd diagnose isnt very hard from what I understand

I never bothered though, because its like 1.2$ / day


 No.57960

>>57582

why would you take these


 No.57999

>>57582

I take DMAE for strongman training, but that's it. Stuff is like a less potent and detrimental version of adderall.


 No.58000

>>57586

What's it do?


 No.58201

>>57960

to study faster


 No.58436

>>57782

in uk shop there is only

>neurostim extracts

made out of herbs :/


 No.58468

>>58436

Yeah that was a fail on my part. I didn't realize it until I got the bottle. The FDA and other agencies in Australia and I think New Zealand are cracking down on the racetams. Not that they are illegal but that they are prescription only and cannot be sold in the standard market. Fucking government. You can still get racetams and other nootropics from IAS but you will need to order by bank wire.

https://www.antiaging-systems.com/287-smarts


 No.58837

File: 02a34dae328b3d0⋯.jpg (6.59 KB, 225x225, 1:1, 1433060339838.jpg)

tfw anarchotranshumanism was appropriated by commies


 No.58853

File: dba015d387dff8a⋯.png (90.86 KB, 586x616, 293:308, alien_kike.png)

>>58837

Sci-fi is dominated by cynical liberal authors. Faggots like Charles Stross and Peter Watts. Peter Watts is cool, but he'd be even cooler if he was goldpilled.


 No.59017

>>58853

>sci-fi

offtop


 No.59020

File: 3f847962cff34f5⋯.jpg (12.85 KB, 300x240, 5:4, good one.jpg)

>>59017

What'cha gonna do about it, big boy?


 No.60398

>>55121

Can't believe this wasn't put out there yet. A pretty good read from the libertarian transhumanist perspective. It addresses issues like the rights of clones and other futuristic things. "Freedom, Immortality and the Stars!"

http://laissez-faire.ch/en/articles/transhumanism-the-next-step-of-civilization/


 No.60399

File: 94045791718b2f6⋯.jpg (379.65 KB, 617x700, 617:700, nick_valentine.jpg)

>>60398

This made me think, during a couple of sips of coffee, that androids and synths would have rights as well in the future if they were sentient. So it was a good choice to help the Railroad in FO4 after all.


 No.60404

>>60399

it would be against NAP to force ppl not to abuse their robots, owner can switch off pain-feeling in a robot


 No.60411

>>60404

This is one of those topics that while we can debate it now, we cannot determine how things will turn out in the future. Most of our stances will be based upon assumptions that may or may not come to be, such as your description of a "pain" switch for a robot. However, we can still debate the core concepts at the base of the matter. If a robot, synth, android, whatever term you want to use, has an AI sufficiently advanced enough that it is sentient and self-aware of its own existence in the universe, how is ownership over it any different than slavery? Take the clone example from the article I posted. What separates a clone brain from an artificial brain if they both perceive the same?


 No.60422

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>60411

Reminds me of this.


 No.60425

I don't understand why there is so many anarchist types. Besides, transhumanist is just another set of identity politics which is cancer.

I don't care if someone wants to argument and become one with the computer, I just don't understand why it has to be political.


 No.60427

>>60411

It's a simple rule, if you didn't explicitly program it to do something and it makes decisions on its own without your assistance you do not own the labor of the ai.

Now If it makes a decision to collect the wealth of its labor it is free to do so. If it doesn't but it is clearly making decisions that are independent from its creator then I'm not sure, I guess the product of the labor goes to the general public until the AI takes claim to the labor.


 No.60428

>>60425

There are some issues that do have ethical and moral questions about them such as above, and depend to a degree on political views as well.


 No.60429

>>60427

Never mind this>>60428. I didn't realize we posted almost at the same time. I can almost agree with you this topic. If Joe's Androids, a futuristic company, begins to make androids which are sentient then I would agree that ethically and morally Joe would need to stop making them, or at least make less sentient androids so that it wouldn't constitute slavery.


 No.60430

>>60428

True AI is no different than Biological Intelligence, so its more along the lines of second wave feminism. Feminists do not realize that the concept of egalitarianism was already established by the writings of John Locke so I don't understand why feminism and egalitarianism is any different from each other other than one relates specifically to bringing down patriarchy. It just seems a bit too self centered.


 No.60431

>>57032

seL4 and other formally verified software should be the only embedded hardware that should interface with the human brain.

No 0day no worry.


 No.60466

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Along the same lines, Gattaca was a brilliant movie dealing with the possible future ethical dilemma of genetic discrimination. While I feel that the free market alone should deal with issues of discrimination, it makes me wonder if businesses would have an incentive to hire only those with superior genes. This isn't simply a matter of of gender, race, age, or religion. An argument could be made that businesses would be more productive and creative with those having better hearts and brains at work. I wonder if this would actually play out in reality though? I would assume that those with superior genes would sell themselves at a higher wage and at some point it would not be profitable to hire based on genetic benefits at all.


 No.60467

>>60430

>True AI is no different than Biological Intelligence

I completely agree with this.


 No.60500

>>58837

I have no idea how that happened. They even made their own manifesto. Just out of curiosity, is it trendy to have your own manifesto nowadays?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wJrXYBXAmNH9zwyfgg1-yAYN_Cda-26pFCk0u_QhyBc/edit


 No.60530

>>55121

>Capitalism is an economic technology itself. I think in the future, we could all be capitalists and design shit and then use our personal robot workers to make stuff to sell to each other, in a totally mutual capitalist economy

So than explain the difference with anarcho-capitalism


 No.60563

>>60530

These fags are giving one thousand names for anarchism but they are all the same anyway


 No.60570

>>60500

apparently


 No.60592

>>60563

Legitimizing business hirarchy is not anarchy. Especially if the hirarchy relies on workers necessity thus limiting the workers personal freedom.


 No.60617

>>60592

In an anarcap society nobody would enforce anyone to work, this is pure freedom


 No.60653

File: e8a0c3b12374de9⋯.jpg (79.16 KB, 418x767, 418:767, jobs in ancap.jpg)

>>60592

Are people not free to follow someone, in the exchange of goods between labour and capital?


 No.60763

>>60653

>supporting private property

>supporting hierarchy

Are you sure you are a anarchist?

>capital

Fine, if you want to be a slave go ahead.


 No.60775

>>60763

Hierarchy does not imply rulers hence why it is compatible with anarchy. Are master artisans rulers over their apprentices? Teachers over their students?


 No.60818

>>60763

This ~> >>60775

If my truck gets stuck in the mud and I told someone I'll pay them if they help me, am I his boss now? Is he not following my command in the exchange of capital. The point of it is that its voluntary hierarchy.


 No.60866

>>60775

so in anarchy i will not be able to play court and elect my monarch etc?


 No.60870

>>60866

What he's saying is that not all forms of hierarchy involves rulers (see example above). If you want have king for yourself then go right ahead. As long as it's voluntary and you don't force other people to join.


 No.61228

>>60500

commies are good at stealing


 No.64214

File: 3a29f0ae8bee0e7⋯.png (358.94 KB, 692x800, 173:200, 1502668638704.png)

File: a8a5e31e72dee45⋯.png (1.69 MB, 1678x935, 1678:935, 1502454379166.png)

HOLY SHT, IS IT HAPPENING?

FREE THINKING AI/TRANSHUMANISG ALLIANCE FUCKING WHEN?


 No.64234

>>64214

First things first I want you to give me a fucking archive.is/ link with the source of that article


 No.64236

>>64234

It is a joke, I just wanted to bump the thread.


 No.64412

wheres the technocrat flag tho. even leftypol's got that down, and they get trigger by even hearing silicon valley


 No.65345

Paul Bingham and Diane Souza posited an interesting idea that societies have developed largely due to the methods of managing conflict of interest. Basically every major societal change has been preceded by an advancement in weaponry. Human hunter/gatherer societies were preceded by the ability to efficiently throw rocks, society size at larger level was preceded by atlatl, agriculture preceded by bow and arrow, archaic state preceded by elite body armor and shock weaponry, modern state preceded by individual accessible firearms.

I think an anarcho society would need to have some similar technological breakthrough with the accompanying distrubution in order to have a state free society.


 No.65350

>>65345

Not convinced by that, sorry. I'm not aware of such a change preceeding the French Revolution. the rise of Christianity or the Reformation, for example. Or rather: There were changes, but I have a hard time believing they were the cause of these events, not when weapons technology is almost constantly advancing, not when there are so many other factors that may be just as important or more important, and not when new weapons technology just as often appears to be a result of wars and the underlying societal changes and not vice versa. For example, the gatling gun was a reaction to the American Civil war, the tank to World War One, the nuke to World War Two.

Another thing about the French Revolution, because individual armament is too obvious not to point out: The revolution still happened in France, not Russia, not Britain, not Germany. It was preceeded by a shift in demographics (especially a rising bourgeoisie) and by various ideologies, both leftism and absolutism, as well as an increase in wealth. That the musket became widespread half a century earlier is just one possible cause of many, and hardly the most straightforward explanation of the French Revolution. Especially because the musket was pretty much just as widespread in America just a little more than a decade earlier, and yet the Americans didn't have a popular, nationalist revolt, but an aristocratic, patriotic one.

Not to say their idea is worthless, and I wouldn't call it trivial either, but I wouldn't single weapons technology out as the cause of social change.


 No.66022

File: 3a9438e13264e21⋯.png (158.67 KB, 650x379, 650:379, e6a399382a7c7c3bae60734c6d….png)

>>55122

All that I got


 No.66041

>>66022

>implying monster girl fetishists would fuck prostitutes

t. /monster/


 No.73169

The only way to get to anarchism is a complete boycott of the state


 No.73237

>>64214

that robot is :eggplant:

I wish I had a robot bf like that.

It's not gay because he's not human.


 No.73238

>>73169

You are not an anarchist.


 No.73239

>>73238

I am an anarchist, I do not obey rules


 No.73392

>>55138

I'm story boarding one for fun, to write into a 10 episode script. The transhumanist aspect is more of a backdrop for a critique of our modern culture and is symbolic to another narrative in a completely different setting. It's not very original, but the setting involves a city stacked on another one, closed off from the rest of the world. The more implants one has the higher up they are on the social ladder. There's an inner party conspiring to gain control of the city, but it's mostly just the daily lives of lonely cyberpunk citizens.


 No.73512

>>73239

you obey rules of this board


 No.73516

>>73512

No I don't care


 No.73526

>>73516

Then post some CP


 No.73529

>>73526

I don't want to, but if I wanted I would do


 No.73541

>>73529

Whether you want to or not is irrelevant. The fact that you don't post CP means you are following that rule.


 No.73550

>>73541

I do not follow the rules neither the reverse of these rules, I just do as I wish


 No.73557

>>73550

So you're a pussy


 No.73565

>>73550

>I do not follow the rules neither the reverse of these rules

Contradiction. You are either posting CP or not.


 No.73590

>>73557

Don't tell me what I am

>>73565

I do what I want, don't tell me what to do


 No.73733

>>73590

dont tell me not to employ child workers


 No.73745

>>73590

Deny it all you want, but everyone thinks you're a pussy.


 No.73962

>>73550

>I just do as I wish

it is a rule faggot


 No.74282

>>73733

If they are anarchists they will not obey you

>>73962

No it's not


 No.74324

>>74282

so they will die of starvation


 No.74431

>>74324

Who would prevent them to eat? No one, anarchy has no authority.


 No.74452


 No.74725

>>74452

Everyone can use guns


 No.74733

>>74725

u have no money to buy a gun

you would not steal it because people defend their property with guns

checkmatte you fucking faggot


 No.74851

>>74733

Well, this is oppression, not anarchy.


 No.74862

>>74851

anarchy has no value per se


 No.75000

>>74862

This is why there is no private ownership


 No.75293

it just seems like a slower version of Posadas to me, if you look at it's implications


 No.83881

File: 322217c20b4221f⋯.png (2.49 KB, 360x240, 3:2, I embrace my hypocrisy.png)

>Why is there no anarcho-transhumanist flag?

Because this is a board of liberty. Why is there no pic related flag? Admittedly it can only exist under an anarcho capitalist system where there is no government to get asshurt when you live off the land, renders it kind of moot.


 No.83882

File: 9aaf75c42bb1d3f⋯.png (206.33 KB, 655x742, 655:742, Y0dHPPwUD0fHk3nBqtyZiOD7vp….png)


 No.84001

File: b47a9a4cabd4c26⋯.jpg (106.78 KB, 600x395, 120:79, Cathedral through the eyes….jpg)

>>55126

Neoreaction? That's SO like 2013.


 No.84012

>>55121

This thread is one year old today. Happy birthday, thread.




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