c4d220 No.663700
>The American subsidiary of Swiss gunmaker B&T has won a multi-million-dollar contract to supply the U.S. Army with a variant of its 9mm APC9 submachine gun. For almost a year, the service has been evaluating a number of proposed weapons as part of an effort to give personal security details added firepower.
>The Army quietly announced that it had awarded B&T USA the deal, worth more than $2.5 million, on the U.S. government’s main contracting website FedBizOpps on Mar. 29, 2019, but did not specify which weapon specifically it was buying. A trusted source familiar with the contract confirmed the gun in question was a version of the APC9 PRO series, but could not say which model specifically. The Army now expects to purchase at least 350 of what it officially calls the Sub Compact Weapon, or SCW, with additional options to buy up to 1,000 of the guns in total. The order also includes unspecified accessories, spare parts, and services.
>The Army initially kicked off the SCW competition in May 2018, before canceling the project and quickly rebooting it in a revised form two months later. Along with B&T USA, its Swiss-headquartered parent company had also entered the SCW competition itself in partnership with Trident Rifles. The Army passed on that bid, along with other offers from Angstadt Arms, Global Ordnance, Shield Arms, and Sig Sauer all of which submitted entries, as well.
>Reports in 2018 had indicated that B&T, through Trident Rifles, had initially offered a variant of the company’s MP9 machine pistol. However, this gun has a side-folding stock, which would have disqualified it under the Army’s revised requirements.
>Though we don't know the exact configuration of the guns the Army is now buying, the APC9 PRO family of guns already includes a variant, the APC9 PRO K, that meets a number of the Army’s requirements, such as a barrel shorter than five and a half inches, a weight under seven pounds, and a stock that retracts and extends rather than folds to the side. B&T presently offers this gun with only a semi-automatic fire option, while any Army version would have a fully automatic mode.
http://archive.is/xwO7z
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27261/this-is-the-armys-new-submachine-gun
136166 No.663702
It looks cool. Unbelievably compact and small, probably will do just fine for the purposes it was intended for.
Begs the question though; What for? Low usage weapons like SMGs are barely needed today, who is it for? This is a small lot, of course, but that still doesn't explain it. Just having them for the sake of having them? Tank crews are the only position where I could see this being actively used and they carry M4s, no? This seems like something you'd give to secret service, not the Army.
ddbff7 No.663703
>>663702
"The service is buying hundreds of these weapons to arm personal security details guarding VIPs in high-risk environments."
136166 No.663704
>>663703
But this appears to be for the army, isn't the Secret Service an unrelated organ?
94c94a No.663707
Why is the magwell a hotdog in a hallway? This isn't some bubba'd AR-9, they have no excuse.
0602d6 No.663709
>>663702
They're neat range toys.
>>663702
They're under the department of homeland security.
>>663707
Its has an angle on the inside if I recall, i.e you can panic a mag in.
37036a No.663710
It's going to be an overpriced, overbuilt ghetto blaster. If a submachine gun does not cost less than $300 it should be ignored
eb4611 No.663711
>>663702
Vehicle crews have been in a very difficult spot ever since the M3A1 grease gun was retired at a time when the P90 was looking to readily replace it without any G*rman ass blastedness getting in the way. Some crews like Nicholas "if they aren't a Christian sect, fire for effect" Morran's Barely Legal for example, got Three M4s, an M16 with underslung M203, mossberg 500, a fucking M249 and then their side arms of M9s all just for a single M1A1. Meanwhile Bradly crews were given a handful of M231 port firing weapons for their now sealed with the exception of the back ramp firing ports if they were lucky. There are countless pictures of less fortunate crews who were given jack and shit for dismounted combat and chose to make due with Iraqi MP5 and even PPSH42 clones. With any luck this might bring some normalcy back into it.
f9ff8b No.663712
>>663704
yes, but the army also supplies security details for senators, and other representatives abroad. the marines usually guard the president if a military escort is needed.
I suspect this is from army black-ops, uber-supermen MOS.
f9ff8b No.663717
>>663711
I just assumed everyone carried a M4 or M16, and prior to that, an M16.
the M4 is basically a rifle capable SMG. kind of like the AK74u.
61b796 No.663719
>>663707
Forgive me if I am wrong but the lower does look like an AR lower. I suspect this is done much like the highpoint carbine does and uses the military's existing parts that can be readily swapped- the army might only be actually ordering the uppers.
0602d6 No.663722
>>663719
Lower can be switched to use common glock magazines.
412530 No.663724
>9mm smg number 6000000
Why do they keep making the same thing?
d00638 No.663725
>>663707
>The standard version uses B&T’s proprietary magazine design. There are two others available that can accept Glock pistol magazines and those for the Sig Sauer P320 series. The latter is particularly notable given that, in 2017, the Army picked versions of the P320 as its new standard sidearms as part of the Modular Handgun System (MHS) program.
>This means that the Army’s version of the APC9 could use the same ammunition and magazines as its new standard issue pistols. This would give any individual equipped with the SCW immediate magazine commonality between their primary and secondary weapon, which could be extremely valuable in even a brief firefight. It would also allow personnel with one of the submachine guns to exchange magazines back and forth with individuals who are only armed with a pistol, if necessary.
>Beyond that, it would help reduce logistical requirements for the new submachine guns. The service does say the SCWs will need to have 20 and 30 round magazines, but it is already buying 21-round P320 magazines as part of the MHS program and there are 30-round options available on the market.
eb4611 No.663726
>>663717
Everyone got an M3A1 until shortly after the gulf war. Yes it would make sense for everyone to just get M4s now, but it was never an offical thing so it varied from unit to unit. Like I said, hopefully it will bring order to chaos.
66b57d No.663728
>>663719
No, the lower is the standard one from their SMG - APC9, which this gun is clearly a version of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCgger_%26_Thomet_APC9
As for all this fluff, B&T is a pretty good weapon manufacturer and makes pretty high quality firearms but this gun, despite probably a good finish, is not that well designed. As i said, the gun seems to be a slightly shortened version of the APC9 with a different stock and without a vertical grip, as well as slightly shorter mags with weird pads on their bottom. The original gun's weight is 2.5kg with the aimpoint that comes with it so this might be ~<0.5kg lighter, the barrel probably is around 4" instead of 6" of the original, while the ridiculous fire rate of 1080rpm is probably unchanged. It can also use 45acp so it might be intended for suppressed fire.
66b57d No.663730
>>663724
Because it sells well, even better than plastic striker fired pistols.
194321 No.663732
>>663700
Wow the army actual making smart weapon choices holy fuck
f9ff8b No.663733
>>663726
so now that we are standardise on our firearm plat form, why don't they just hand out lowers/bolts and let the units build them like legos or something with after market parts?
968fbc No.663734
>>663702
Helo crews, vessel crews, MP's, security personnel, ect…
>>663712
>yes, but the army also supplies security details for senators, the marines usually guard the president if a military escort is needed.
The Army provides passive security for representatives when they're traveling in areas the Army is operating, otherwise security for Senators/Congressmen falls to whatever agency maintains security at the locale they're visiting (i.e. embassy would be CSS and Marines, Naval base with be Navy, ect…) otherwise a Senator/Congressmen has no security detail outside of DC, unless they're within the direct line-of-succession. The President's Marine escort is a different situation altogether, the Marines provide airlift support and White House security, but the Secret Service maintains Executive Protection at all times, while coordinating with other agencies and departments.
>>663726
Nothing like putting a rifle rack in a tank, only to never actually put a rifle within a crews TO&E.
ee278f No.663749
>>663700
So when is (((SIG))) going to demand a retrial?
9dc3ae No.663768
it is so fucking ugly holy shit
ee278f No.663774
What is this meme of crypto-9mm AR with a 2 inch barrel? Why not something like an MP9 which is not only more compact, but has a much longer barrel?
86d016 No.663786
>>663728
>>663702
They've said it: security details.
>>663711
>Vehicles crews.
No.
>>663700
>As for all this fluff, B&T is a pretty good weapon manufacturer and makes pretty high quality firearms but this gun
B+T has 20 employees, they're a suppressor company for the Swiss police (and supply basically everyone in Europe), they make guns as a side job.
They can make 350 to a 1000 guns in a couple of years sure but that's about it.
They just cannot fulfill an order for US army crew weapons, also it's illegal per Swiss law to export military equipment (policing equipment is ok, hence why it's probably for MP security or something. "APC" means Advanced Police Carbine IIRC).
If they were to get a big military order they would have to partner with an exterior firm like SIG (Swiss) & Sauer (German) to actually make the guns. Knowing B+T it would most likely be Steyr (Austria).
37036a No.663791
>>663725
Oh I get it now, it's gimmick is that it's ultra modular with lots of fancy accessories, perfect for an army that thinks more technology is a substitute for skill and experience
1612d0 No.663808
>>663733
Would honestly make a lot of sense. Give each boot a few thousand to build the rifle with the only rule being (must be in 5.56) would be interesting to see how units design rifles around their job. Units may begin identifying with common setups and stylizing their pieces.
d788f8 No.663812
>tfw you will never see an army adopt the IDW as a standard PDW for memes and giggles
e2583d No.663814
>>663717
Go back to cuckchan with your armchair retardation.
d62c65 No.663815
Roughly $7,000 a piece for a 9mm submachine gun.
98d935 No.663821
>>663815
It would still be a ripoff at a tenth that cost.
I expected nothing better.
721615 No.663825
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>663700
Retarded requirements
Retarded gun
Big Mistake
f9ff8b No.663829
>>663808
I could see how it could get out of hand just have the O-3 approve purchases, any if the solder wants anything not within that budget, just ask O-3 or he can buy it himself, I know a lot of civies who would love to give these guys simple stupid stuff like this, I also think the USO has a program for this.
63aede No.663830
>>663821
Like 2500 USD in leafland for one.
ee278f No.663835
>>663825
>barrel 2-3x the length
>much better mags
>actual operating system, not just direct blowback
>smaller and more compact
>"REEEEEE, IT'S NOT AN AR! WE NEED TO ADOPT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE AN AR"
When will armalitefags fuck off?
721615 No.663836
>>663835
also
>weights 2 pounds less
>still super controllable on full auto
f9ff8b No.663865
>>663835
its a cost thing, the US military literally chose the AR platform so logistics could simply replace parts more easily and there was less "variation" in specialist parts that didn't need to be specialized.
this dates back to the 1960s when Kennedy's administration went ham and saved a lot of military over-site form have role dedicated firearms to having a single platform with role dedicated parts.
most of small arms development like the beloved rail system came from this line of thought, I'm certain Brittan has its own version but this has and is working well for the US military. the AR platform was specifically made by stoner with this in mind hence its minimalist design.
>fuck off britfag.
e512eb No.663870
>>663835
>>663836
half of the threads on /k/ are just people complaining about how much money the US needlessly spends.
>hey maybe we shouldn't spend millions of dollars on something we don't need
>FUCKING ARMALITE FAGS REEEEEE
f90d95 No.663871
>>663710
If anything a modernized grease gun would be nice, not saying the military wouldn't fuck that up too though.
37036a No.663890
>>663865
The AR is shit and a military failure, death to intermediate infidels
f9ff8b No.663902
>>663890
>at-least make an argument, not an accusation
>>663871
I take your dedicated grease gun and raise you an AR15 platform AR18 upper with a 9mm chamber and bolt and a mag-well mount for whatever mag you have available.
37036a No.663904
>>663902
>>663899
Sorry intermediots, this is battle rifle gang territory
f9ff8b No.663906
>>663904
>AR 15
done a battle rifle.
b5cf94 No.663911
AHAHAHAHA holy shit it looks uglier than Hi-Points. Your army should just invest in pic related. Everyone will be disoriented thinking your ZOGbots are just Bethesda NPCs, that's better than tacticool advantage. You shouldn't let the spaghetti-armed FBI cuck you out of using 10mm.
>the deal, worth more than $2.5 million
>The Army now expects to purchase at least 350 of what it officially calls the Sub Compact Weapon, or SCW, with additional options to buy up to 1,000 of the guns in total
Money spent almost as well as Israeli defense aid.
5871e5 No.663916
>>663700
meh, IMO the best layout for SMG/PDW is the Uzi or "pistol on 'roids" with mag in the grip. Its basically the bull-pup SMG, but unlike a bull-pup rifle, it doesn't seem fraught with balance and other ergometric issues, or bad trigger.
Only reason I'd want mag ahead of trigger would be if its quad-stack.
fa8d30 No.663948
>>663919
trommelmag mk2000
ee278f No.663987
>>663865
Except nothing on the APC9 is interchangeable with the AR-15 it just looks like one.
82a221 No.664075
looks like a retarded ar pistol
df49fb No.664080
>>663902
>I take your dedicated grease gun and raise you an AR15 platform AR18 upper with a 9mm chamber and bolt and a mag-well mount for whatever mag you have available.
Why would you use a piston upper on a direct blowback bolt? You fucking stupid? Also magwell mounts are gay. Just get a dedicated lower that takes glawk or colt mags.
ee278f No.664091
>>664080
>9mms can't be piston operated
Cohen would like a word
949468 No.664107
File: efe773636eb1aa4⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 92.97 KB, 1030x605, 206:121, MP5A3_Decoupe_HecklerUndKo….jpg)
>>664091
>Cohen would like a word
What about? The holocaust?
Spoiler for lewd
379303 No.664156
215604 No.664159
>>664156
Because 5.7 is shit, especially from short barrels. 9mm with hot loads can get superior performance against both soft and armoured targets, for far less cost of all parts.
>inb4 >military-industrial complex saving money
4ba80c No.664183
>>664156
Needle round that had unsatisfactory performance on soft targets, even when pushing through armor/hard cover.
9x19 is available in large quantities while already being in use and is "good enough" against soft targets.
94c94a No.664189
>>664091
Of course they can be. Just like you can make a straight-blowback HMG if you want to, but that doesn't mean you should.
ee278f No.664195
>>664156
Because the US army hasn't adopted 5.7mm
968fbc No.664275
>>664156
>Why did the Army utilize a caliber already in it's inventory and not a glorified .22Mag cartridge with poor performance that isn't in it's inventory?
Gee, I wonder why…
dabc67 No.664281
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>664275
It's a bad cartridge, but not that bad.
215604 No.664295
>>664281
Out of a barrel shorter than a Five-seven's and being shot at ranges longer than concealed carry shootings? It'll be worthless.
968fbc No.664320
>>664281
Even if it isn't "that bad" in terms of performance, it's still stupid to consider from a logistical and operational standpoint. 5.7 is a solution looking for a problem.
5871e5 No.664324
I guess the Army choose to keep the ergometrics, in other words their existing TRAINING and muscle memory, of the AR, rather than retrain on a new optimized dedicated SMG platform.
Not the worse idea they've ever had. I'm pretty sure the "operator" will always be the weakest link in effectively using any gun, especially a SMG.
6b555e No.665347
>>663919
>6 million rpm
>scope
>intended for close quarters and c&b environments
MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND
>made in israel
The interesting thing is that if you want to see how a non fucked up army gun looks like Isreal always adopts the best things while US and NATO gets the short end because kikes will not allow the same. (not always the case. They too get attached to "their" designs)
Galil for example is a perfected Kalashnikov.
Uzi is a mac10 but better
Micro uzi is mac11 but better
The only problem with mac/uzi is its hunger for bullets. Obviously the kikes thought of this also and it can be converted to half of it's cycle speed.
87d439 No.665351
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Why an SMG instead of an SBR?
95e798 No.665354
>>665347
>Galil is a perfected AK
No, nigger.
>Uzi is a MAC-10
No, you stupid nigger, the MAC-10 was literally designed because the Uzi was too expensive and not reliable enough. The MAC-10 is the better gun for a military, and the actions aren't even similar.
>Micro Uzi is a MAC-11
Except the Micro Uzi is just a shitty cut-down fucking toy and the MAC-11 isn't even in the same caliber as the 10. It's a different gun altogether.
>converted to half of it's cycle speed
NO YOU UNEDUCATED REDDIT SPACING NIGGER
6b555e No.665373
>disqualifying weapons because of side folding stocks
This is not an excuse to disqualify better weapon designs.
They could've just asked any manufacturer to slap it on for them. It's not like an engineering prodigy to accomplish post production. Especially when they get a whole army to sell for.
f81b25 No.665429
>>663911
>Money spent almost as well as Israeli defense aid.
There'd be a 9/11 every week if US didn't support the only democracy in the middle east™ (^:
7a94e8 No.665445
Doesn't seem like a bad gun, but we've had good 9mm submachineguns since WWI. There's no reason to keep reinventing the wheel. What does this do the MP5 doesn't?
e1d752 No.665479
>>663774
I was just thinking that. The Israelis claimed to have great success with their UZI's, claiming the hand over hand method of reloading to be incredibly effective. My guess is the MP9 doesn't have magazine compatibility with the APC9, and that's what it boiled down to.
393346 No.665488
>>665445
it doesn't come with H&K's cost?
459470 No.665507
>>665347
Jesus Christus, KuK poster. Wat are you doing? This takes the prize for most retared shitpost on this whole board.
Everything you said was aggressively wrong.
Go home and think about your actions, you absolute retard.
The Galil was so shit not even the yids would use it.
87d439 No.665524
>>665479
>My guess is the MP9 doesn't have magazine compatibility with the APC9, and that's what it boiled down to.
They use the same mags iirc
aa9430 No.665528
87d439 No.665534
>>665528
Because bullpups are a meme if the magazine is small enough to fit into the grip
9dc3ae No.665536
>>665534
yeah, so why not make it just like a longer pistol with a grip on the front?
l tell you this will be the design of the future
d99d2f No.665545
Is this related to the DOTR
a9fd53 No.665652
>>665540
This post gave me cancer.
f4d5c2 No.665842
7a94e8 No.666128
>>665488
We're paying $2.5 million for 350 guns. Or maybe that's for 1000 I'm a bit confused. That's between 2500-7000 each depending on how the math should be done. Not much cheaper than what the government pays for an MP5, something like $2-2.5k. The MP5 was just an example anyways, the point I'm making is there are hundreds of good, existing designs for 9mm subguns and paying that 2500 for any of them is absolutely retarded when the government is paying under $700 each for an M4.
e92d94 No.666131
>>665347
>made in israel
Gypsy nigger that shit's from Sweden.