/k/ - Weapons

The best bug out bag I've ever seen by someone who knew what he was doing was a typical looking fannypack hanging on the wall within arms reach where he usually sits. Didn't look out of place and nobody would give a second glance seeing him wearing it out in public.

>>623395

>Cliff bars, protein bars

Enjoy your soy. A jar of peanut butter packs more protein and calories in a denser volume while costing next to nothing and I'm talking real peanut butter that has oil separation in it not the type that has 20% sugar by weight.

Agreed that a knife should always be on your person but I'd prioritize a lighter over a multitool.

>>623405

>A jar of peanut butter packs more protein and calories in a denser volume

I agree that protein bars are crap, but peanut butter, really? if you're eating just peanut butter, won't you get constipation? how are you going to eat it, with a spoon? what if you get peanut butter all over yourself?

how about some beef jerky and granola?

>>623409

>what if you get peanut butter all over yourself

>food

Pemmican, hardtack, and portable soup is all you need. Maybe homemade chili blocks too.

Trail mix is a good, calorie dense food that keeps well when packed properly. That plus a couple packs of jerky and water is a pretty good way of keeping alive.

>>623416

They are delicious as fuck, try to use the jam on them or maybe some canned meat and its god tier meal

>>623416

Good taste.

>>623409

>>623411

>what if you get peanut butter all over yourself?

>>623528

also make sure to not be retarded and leave your back exposed. Stick a plate there too. You never know when a little bitch will attempt to unload an entire mag on your back

>>623564

This but unironically

>>623564

>Mask

They make breathing and vision poor.

Ballistic masks will only prevent pistol calibers from destroying you and at that point it's still basically game over, you'll at best be likely knocked unconscious and left vulnerable.

Helmet for nods and basic front back plates is what you need, side plates if you're in a vehicle.

>>623515

Autist Chan! Been too long since I last thought about her.

I just saw this guy’s take on it and I like a lot of what he proposes.

>No more than 10% of your body weight

>Main objective is to put distance between you and the happening

>Carry what you need to accomplish that

>Be incognito

>>623678

>Obviously it’s going to be more than 10% of your body weight…the point though is for it to be as light as possible

I carry 1/4-1/3 of body weight and am definitely not incognito, but I do appreciate some of his points.

Sage for PS post

>>623564

If I could have a terminator suit of armour I'd be willing to fucking live in it.

>Carry all your shit in it

>You can lock your gauntlets so that any weapon you own is protected from niggers while you sleep

>Total care of bodily needs

>Multiplication of everything about you

>Completely proof from all but the strongest of modern weapons

Imagine just walking down tha streetz after bustin caps in asses with yo' homies when you hear a big ass thumpin' and suddenly yo' homeboy's head is turned into clam chowder by a huge metal fist. You'd turn to put a bullet in him only to find seconds later your hips and legs are 50 meters away from your upper torso courtesy of his bolter.

As for a strictly urban situation.

>Get MRE's and strip them down

>add things to your liking, remember things like moist towelettes, utensils, paper napkins/tp

>vacuum pack the dry goods in daily portions after puncturing the original packaging with a pin

>store the main meals/heater packs/wet goods in cellophane in meal portions, remember to label them.

>get a 3 liter hydration bladder that will fit in your bag

>grab a 1.5 liter bottle of your choice, if metal and not a vacuum flask you can boil in it.

>1 inch webbing, 50-60 feet.

>First aid kit

>2x 250ml bottles of high proof alcohol.

>8x8ft or 10x10ft dark but neutral colored tarp.

>100 feet of 550 or 750 cord.

>3x Bic or other simple flint lighter. Store these in different places on your pack, consider one of those lighter lanyards for one.

>Storm proof matches

>A good 6 inch or similar, fixed blade knife

>Good 3.5 inch folding knife

>Depending on level of SHTF, quality bolt cutters 10 inches long and a couple of coats of flex seal over each handle for added electrical protection.

>Personal preference includes a shovel but you may not need one

>Foot long pry bar, again depending on SHTF

>Personal protection, scale to need and availability.

<Collapsible baton (like others have mentioned are great if you can't carry a gun), machetes, pistols, TOTALLY NOT SHOTGUN firearms, ball peen hammer (hit with the ball end) to name a few.

>Use your judgement for ammo, 3 reloads ready and ten or so in reserve may be too much or too little for you.

>Sleep pad, people make homemade versions using balloon animal balloons as the insulators, very light and a bag of replacements will weigh nothing.

>Good sleeping bag for your climate. Get a compression sack for it as well.

>Garbage bags, largest and heaviest duty you can find. 4 or so will do.

>Flashlight that takes AA or AAA batteries, carry more if you want but one should be using easily sourced batteries.

This is for someone with a plan. Someone that knows where they need to go, how long they can expect to take to get their via different routes. What is between them and escape. And keep in mind, if it is a fullblown chimpout and you expect confrontation, a much more offensive approach is needed. Smokebombs with or without irritants, molotovs, crowdpoppers (Old JLabs, glue a large marble or ball bearing to the bottom of a shot shell, throw it into a crowd, could add glued pvc jacket as well). Again, if scale dictates a need for that shit, you need a rifle and a rig to carry ammo, and you better as fuck have a plan.

I'm in the people republic of california and things are getting strange. Almost open season on conservatives, more and more foreigners everyday, lots of Chinese, very noticeable from 2 months ago when I left, now I'm back and honestly on edge.

My go bag is ammo, water, medical, food, misc(phone charger, cash, gun oil) in that order. It's a 15lt backpack and I can hike forever with it.

>>623766

I agree on the AA and AAA standard batteries, I've tried to avoid any "exotic" but my steiner takes a cr123 as well as a few watch batteries for illuminated optics.

>>623766

>>A good 6 inch or similar, fixed blade knife

>>Depending on level of SHTF, quality bolt cutters 10 inches long and a couple of coats of flex seal over each handle for added electrical protection.

An AK bayonet with its scabbard could work well for both of these uses.

>>624181

I love AK bayonets, but they are not great knives nor are they good for cutting thick or hardened lines. I would recommend AK bayonets for folks running inna woods, mostly because its a great trowel. OR you already have an AK to mount it on.

Peanuts are the ultimate bugout snack

Bugout should have enough compact food to last a week

>>623580

This but ironically

>>636066

Clawhammer works on niggers but opening a door with a pipe wrench is much easier

>>623766

Basically this.

I would ass however

>hydration

depending on physical exertion and the climate/temperature you may need up to 3 gallons of water a day to stay properly hydrated.

now 3 gallons is likely to run ~24lbs which is a bit much, but try to aim for at least a gallon or a half if you gotta go fast.

another idea that could serve you well is to use a wheelbarrow style contraption to help you carry lots of shit far and fast. think along the lines of what ww2 mortar teams used to carry their shit.

>clothing

depending on temps you may need to dress lighter or thicker, if your stuck in LA somewhere your best bet for clothing is going to be something reminiscent of a rhodie's outfit, very light shorts/trunks (like marine corps silkies) and a light button up cotton t-shirt, also make sure the color scheme goes with the palette of your area. also you will want to dress relatively light anyways if you will be moving a lot as you will quickly overheat if your wearing too much shit. another note is to remove every reflective/neon shit from your clothes, tracksuits often come with these, either cut it out or sharpie over it, the last thing you need to be is attention catching.

>shoes

light combat boots would be best. running shoes are good for obvious reasons, but they provide little protection and support for your foot and ankle, if you step in a hole your gonna want something that is resistant to ankle snapping. plus a good pair will help vent your feet so you don't get trench foot after days of travel

>maps/navigation

know the area, know what resources are available and where in case you need to re-up on things like water. know where the niggy parts of town are, they may or may not be safe to travel through, although that depends if the nig horde moves to other areas,

>food

just remember to get calorie and protein dense foods, canned meat and fish serves this purpose well, but try to avoid spam as it will dehydrate you and it is rather bulky for its level of protein. also keep in mind the smell, a can of fish will reach many noses, even those seafood averse.

>tools

a shovel can always come in handy, typically for hitting nigs and of course digging, most urban areas have SOME level of diggable land, sub-urban has even more, use this in case you need to hide something valuable/a body, or if you need to fortify a position. consider a set of utility keys, or tools which can act in effect of those. pliers, screwdrivers, hex keys and other things can work wonders for accessing places. also consider a 3 or 4 pronged throwable hook with rope attached for elevating your position quickly.

>fire

you can bic lighters for about ~1 a piece, so you can easily carry several lighters, keep a stash in your pack incase your feeling generous (this applies subjectively as generous may imply helping a fellow white or burning down city blocks, its really up to your best judgement)

>protection

protect your vital areas, primarily your neck, groin, and gut, these are where the worst wounds will occur and are most likely to occur. you can easily do this with some kind of thin metal plating/leather or thick cloth. it will likely still hurt like a bitch if you get hit, and it probably wont stop a bullet, but if your a poorfag, its your best bet for preventing abrasions and punctures from knives, shrapnel, or just sharp and ragged objects in general, also consider your wrists and joints, as there is major bloodflow in those areas aswell

some other common tips would be avoid crowd of any size, avoid open areas, including long stretches of roads, stick to concealed areas, such as in between structures and somewhat wooded areas where people wont be able to see you for at least 50yds, also try to look like normalfags by wearing a basic bitch school bag in subdued colors

For waterproof matches

>Light candle

>Stick match heads in melted wax

>Let dry

>>636171

Clear nailpolish.

>>636171

>>636184

>the only way to make fire is with matches

???????????//

>>636198

>a fucking leaf

but for real, where did they say that? or even imply that?

I don't live in a city, but I do have to commute to my workplace which is in one, and I keep a "Get Home" bag there. It's a little different than a Bug Out bag in philosophy because while the BOB focuses on long term survival in a situation where you can't expect the niceties of regular civilization, the GHB focuses on quick movement by foot to a location where you have supplies or a proper BOB stored. The distance I commute would take 1.5-2 days to travel by walking given terrain, population density, and a focus on avoiding major throughfares, so I plan for that.

>Nondescript 21L backpack that blends in to the average populace to avoid attracting attention; excessive MOLLE straps, "tactical/military" logos, and morale patches are just a good way to advertise "DOG PILE ME AND KILL ME FOR FREE SHIT"

>said backpack sits high on the back, for better weight carrying

>simple survival bivy to sleep in overnight, it won't be as comfy as a sleeping bag with a proper bedroll, but it's extremely lightweight, fits entirely inside the bag, and is good enough to keep me warm and dry throughout the night

>1600 calories of Millenium bars which have a lifespan of 5 years so I don't have to change out food every couple of months which could draw attention to it at work

>2 sticks of jerky for 300 additional calories and protein

>2x1.5L SmartWater bottles instead of hydration bladder, because hydration bladders require you to either have a backpack with a sleeve for the tube (which draws attention) or keep the zipper partially open for the tube (which could come all the way open and drop all your shit everywhere), and not only are the bottles durable enough to sit there in the bag for months, but the threads fit a Mini Sawyer filter to get more water

>Yeah, yeah, I know about xenoestrogen and all that shit, but two days of exposure isn't enough to turn you into a soyboy and I don't drink out of plastic otherwise. I already bring a 16oz steel canteen to work daily for drinking water, so I can use that if I absolutely need to boil something over the course of those two days and the squeeze filter won't cut it

>Waterproof poncho in case of rain

>Headlamp for hands-free lighting if I need it

>Folding knife for various purposes

>Storm matches in a case with a striking patch and a cheapo Bic lighter

>First aid kit with vitamins, electrolyte mix to add to water, antiseptic, rubbing alcohol patches, mole skin, gauze, and both regular and quick clot bandages

>Skivvy roll for spare t-shirt, socks, and boxers

>Watch cap for head insulation during cold nights

>Monocular to observe forward conditions from a distance so I can reroute if necessary

>Map of local area

>Mechanix gloves to protect hands in case I'm dealing with debris

>3M N95 dust mask, two so I have a backup

All of these fit in the bag I mentioned earlier with a little bit of room to spare. Weather rarely changes drastically from day to day where I live, so if it's cold I'll already be bringing a jacket to work and I can layer with the extra shirt if need be. I can walk out the door without having to throw shit together at the last minute with a backpack weighing under 18 lbs that looks like the average bookbag college students wear around here, with my canteen in a side pocket and get home without people immediately noting me down as "Mug this man for military gear and survival goods".

Also OP, whatever plan you follow, make sure you do test hikes with said bag on. There's no point having the bag if you can't even hump it a third of the distance you'll need to walk. I go on monthly hikes with the pack to make sure I can carry it for long distances and which also help me to go through it and see if anything's expired or needs changing (Smart Water bottles are like 1.50 for the 1.5L so it's pretty cheap to throw out the old ones and put in the new ones).

>>636408

This…This seems to be an interesting solution, as my bugout plan has always been to get to the family cabin in the mountains, but this would certainly expedite the process, not to mention be fun as hell in the mean time.

Why has nobody here considered lockpicks? I know it's a lot easier to just smash into a place and get the shit but keep in mind that you can use lockpicks on every kind of lock, even tumblers for lockers. It's a quieter, less strenuous way of getting into a place and you can even save the locks and chains from gates or lock the door behind you to make it harder for people to follow. It takes 30 seconds to 2 minutes to open a lock using the rake method but if you practice you can get consistently faster using a lifter of your choice. Not only all of this, but they take virtually no space at all.

>>636514

Just get an electric lock pick m8

>>636649

Why the fuck would you ever carry something electric in a SHTF scenario when you could spend 2 weeks of your time reading a book on how to use the actual tools?

>>636514

Just use ther,ite, m8. Fits in any lock and has more uses. Not a waste to learn lockpicking and carry them but they really can be made with some wire and a hammer extremely easily.

>>636649

Or just carry both. Or just the wiggly one thing and a tensioner, they work just as fine in cheaper locks. Also, shims.

>>636676

So what you're suggesting is to carry around thermite, which is a moderately hard to source consumable resource and does the same job as breaking the lock with a pry bar or cutters? Why? Why would you ever use thermite for anything but burning through a shitload of metal? The whole reason you learn lockpicking which we both agree on is so you can carry the basically weightless 3 picks and tension wrench you actually need to open most locks. It conserves a lot of space compared to bolt cutters and even a jar of thermite.

>>636678

>which is a moderately hard to source

It's literally rust and foil mixed together. Really dude. There's more to it but these are its basic components.

>does the same job as breaking the lock with a pry bar or cutters

A stick full of termite capable of burning through any chain, most lock shackles and door hinges weights 1/10th of that and takes less space. Plastic cases from sharpies work great, as well as drug bottles/containers. Unless you're going to devote time to search and keeping a stockpile somewhere you won't haul a bulky steel thing around.

>Why would you ever use thermite for anything but burning through a shitload of metal?

A shitload of metal requires a shitload of termite. Though now that i think about it, some coolant spray(or whatever the thing's called) and a hefty hitting tool would work great too. Just freeze the shackle and then smash it with your hammer when it gets brittle. Also works for lock pins and other insides but that can be complicated.

>you actually need to open most locks

I don't know what about you but where i like most people keep either lever type of locks or disc tumbler ones, with the type you're going to pick being common only among hanging locks that are used for garages and suburb or rural houses and the disc ones are still being more common. For disc locks you could get a pick, ok, or a ram thing that pulls the mechanism out like in these lockpicking videos, but it's a bit bulkier and heavier, while lever ones i'm unsure about at all.

It's for you to decide what to carry but if you know you'll be able to get some use of breaking in you might want something more than a thing that can hopefully open some of the cheaper locks you encounter you might want something to help you in all other situations, especially if it works universally and can effectively aid destructive measuers.

>>636689

>It's literally rust and foil mixed together.

And this is how I know you don't know how to make thermite. It's a lot more complex than rust and foil. Reactions require an oxidizer and a fuel and the impurities matter a shitload. You're trying to make a high temperature mixture not a fucking party trick.

>weights 1/10th of that and takes less space.

Still not as little as a set of picks, I don't even know what picks weigh because I'd need a scientific scale.

>especially if it works universally

If you knew as much about locks as I did you'd know that it doesn't matter what kind of mechanism it has. If it opens with a physical key, it can be opened with a pick. It's just a matter of construction and manufacturing inconsistencies that makes this possible and barring some space-alien technology this won't change.

>>636690

>It's a lot more complex than rust and foil

Bruh https://invidio.us/watch?v=H-PubIM6O_4

>Still not as little as a set of picks

Where did i imply that you shouldn't carry picks, you dense motherfucker?

>If you knew as much about locks as I did

What a douche

> it doesn't matter what kind of mechanism it has

In theory, it doesn't. In practice - go on, try to pick a disc lock with your shitty picks.

>If it opens with a physical key, it can be opened with a pick

Looks like someone who doesn't know shit about locks is you here. Clearly not all locks currently existing are pickable with modern tools and clearly most that are aren't pickable by some stupid fag like you.

>It's just a matter of construction and manufacturing inconsistencies that makes this possible and barring some space-alien technology this won't change.

Go on then, go try to pick a lock you don't know with the tools you don't have.

>>636697

>Bruh https://invidio.us/watch?v=H-PubIM6O_4

Yeah, see how pure that rust is? You couldn't just grab a random pipe off the ground and shave it. It takes a little refining.

>Where did i imply that you shouldn't carry picks

The implication is made in your argument of superior tools but fair, maybe I'm too autistic for this one.

>What a douche

It's 8chan man everyone talks like a knowitall.

>In theory, it doesn't.

In theory it does. While I will concede that a disc lock is harder, if it relies on pins and opens via a key they CAN get stuck on the shearline. A different tool like an 8-pin finger pick or a disc-picking tool might help you, but the fundamental process is similar and can be achieved with regular lockpicks if you have the patience and understanding on how to manipulate the individual pins.

>Clearly not all locks currently existing are pickable with modern tools

Barring some ridiculous shit I don't know about, if it uses pins it can be picked.

>go try to pick a lock you don't know with the tools you don't have.

I relish the opportunity to learn from a challenge, so I think I will.

>>636703

I'm gonna double post here so I can correct myself a bit: Discs and pins are different, but I moreso meant the general idea of a pin which is that they align with a mechanism to allow entry, meaning they can be individually manipulated. If you had the know-how of a false gate's feedback or even just bypassed the copper structure piece at the end of the lock by force you could get through even an Abloy with a little luck. I am talking about the fundamental design of a mechanism's ability to be manipulated.

>>636703

>You couldn't just grab a random pipe off the ground and shave it

I never said you can, my sttement was that these are the basic components. It doesn't mean you'll do it like that - you won't be able to ignite it without that torch, for starters. Still, to get your basic termite you'll only need some rust that you can refine into perfect reagent using nothing but fire and some soda and file some aluminum scrap turned into small pieces with a file. Al rich alloys will do too. This one will be hard to ignite so you can add some al powder for your convenience. From that the possibilities are endless: use superphosphate instead of rust and you'll get cooler mixture that creates highly toxic gas if you add water, make transitioning mixture that ignites easier and then ignites hotter stuff in turn, tightly press the thing in the container for more intense reaction, etc.

>The implication is made in your argument of superior tools but fair

Destructive methods are superior to non-destructive as they are easily scalable, don't require special skills from the user and can be applied universally. The only reason to not use them is lack of appropriate resources or need to preserve the obstacle - be it stealth or convenience. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use what fits better.

>the fundamental process is similar and can be achieved with regular lockpicks if you have the patience and understanding on how to manipulate the individual pins

Sure, it doesn't mean that you'll get through a quality lock with your handmade picks in a lifetime. Especially since some locks require a special tensioner that you won't have. Check this out https://invidio.us/watch?v=1jSHwaOR_eo .

>>636707

Yeah, there are no "unpickable" locks like there are no "unguessable" passwords, but cyber security proves it even better - to achieve the desired result you'd very likely to need around few hundred lifetimes of the current universe. But you can try to, the infinite monkey theorem does apply.

>>636710

Also, to all streloks interested, here's a great example of a practical solution to applying termite. It actually was mentioned in the book i use but i never git to it in discussion and found this vid. Just ignore the annoying music.

>>636710

>you won't be able to ignite it without that torch

Because we're thinking of a light-weight bugout situation, things like crowbars and cutters and torches should only be carried if they are going to provide you with an immense advantage such as in an urban environment. My problem with seeking thermite at all is that its hard to source and compose, then ignite those materials and they don't last forever so they're not reliable. I mean you're right, you could grind down iron and aluminum foil into thermite but I'm thinking from the perspective of someone in the field and the sort of materials they would find. Some stray pipes and kitchen aluminum foil is all you could get your hands on and there's no way you're carrying a torch around just in case you get to use it.

>don't require special skills from the user and can be applied universally.

You are right, breaking a window is always easier than picking the front door, but preserving the obstacle is helpful and knowledge weighs nothing. Gear is great for the man that doesn't know what he's doing, but /k/ommandos SHOULD know what they're doing. I think learning about mechanisms and machines is worth the effort.

>require a special tensioner that you won't have.

The special tensioner makes it easier but its still doable, I learned from a video called 'lockpicking for the new millenium' that demonstrated the difference between opening special locks with a tool vs not using the tool and just using a lifter and tension rod. The good news is both the disc lock tool and finger pick are lightweight. Not only that, but disc locks are also super rare. Most people don't bother picking locks because like you said, destructive methods require no training and that's what most thieves have, no training. Otherwise they could be a locksmith instead of a thief. We mostly use 6 pin tumblers in america and they're on virtually everything. Even cars are just 6 pins but double sided and can be opened either with normal picks or you can commence the jiggling.

>infinite monkey theorem does apply

I'll concede to you, because time is of the essence. If I saw a disc lock in a field situation I'd forget about stealing the motorcycle without an anklegrinder or something.

>>636713

>My problem with seeking thermite at all is that its hard to source and compose, then ignite those materials and they don't last forever so they're not reliable

Not really. Only if you don't know what you're doing. Get some al powder, bake some rust in a pan with soda and you've got good termite that will ignite well without any rare stuff like magnesium. You can ignite it with some easily made powder out of sugar and potassium nitrate. All can be bought without any suspicion or prepared at home with no special tools. We could even make some pic guidelines. I've got some excellent material for that, unfortunately it's in Russian only so it's not of much use for you even though i did once post it in the pdf thread.

>/k/ommandos SHOULD know what they're doing

It's useful but you can't expect a man to be knowledgeable, ready and for anything. Lockpicking does deserve more attention though.

>The special tensioner makes it easier but its still doable

https://invidio.us/watch?v=-cEVatzkAO4

https://invidio.us/watch?v=h1cCtApECOE

>If I saw a disc lock in a field situation I'd forget about stealing the motorcycle without an anklegrinder or something.

Watch first video - the guy will tell you about one common weakness of these type of locks.

>>636715

>sugar and potassium nitrate

So you're suggesting a 2-part ignition train a la demolition style rather than an oxyacetyline torch? That wouldn't actually be that bad but I tend to stay away from one-use items. Biggest issue with the idea of painkiller pills and water purifying tablets. Everyone uses them but I'd rather have a sawyer straw and ignore the headaches because they're reliable.

>It's useful but you can't expect a man to be knowledgeable, ready and for anything

I don't expect normies to, but I kinda expect /k/ommandos. We're the autists of the internet and we have a reputation to uphold as always unique. It might just be me but I love learning about anything that involves machines or mechanisms, they run our world and we treat them like magic.

>>636711

couple of those thermite pens would be a nice addition to an urban bugout bag, thats for sure. might have to try and make some, does thermite take well to epoxy or glue suspension?

>>636716

willow bark my dude. multiple types of willow have the same anti-inflammatory chemical known as salacin. course, you gotta be in an area with willows.

>>636718

> initiating fuse

Safety fuse and a match. Just put it upside down and strike the box against the match while its in the fuse, it'll light every time.

>>636718

>one-use items for one-time visits

>These are fine as you actually use them only when needed

I believe you get reliant on them after a while, and you end up having to source more but that's my opinion on the matter.

>posses all the knowledge

Unfortunately impossible but having overlapping skills helps. For instance I do electrical and engine stuff so anything involving explosives or mechanisms is typically in my zone of easy understanding. Might just be a sperg though.

>shaped charges

You can make explosives but, the problem is you can't really say you keep them in a bug out bag and if you get caught with them without an ATF demo card you're in trouble.

>>636720

>Safety fuse and a match

Yeah, that works. Or just use a good fuse that's easy to ignite and will burn well and slow. It's not that hard and gas lighters last too long for what they worth and weight, too OP.

>I believe you get reliant on them after a while

More options are more options - you just can enter some places you couldn't otherwise. It's not like you'll have the right amounts of the stuff to get used to it, it's more of a "plan B" option that offers a backup and more freedom to move.

>You can make explosives

From my understanding, there's another problem with it - tannerite and some other weaker explosives don't really work in shaped charges, is that true?

>Unfortunately impossible but having overlapping skills helps

Absolutely, even if ideal is unreachable it's never wrong to strive for it.

>you can't really say you keep them in a bug out bag

Well, some are 2 part ones and others have long shelf life. I personally know at least one recipe of a plastic explosive, though there are better option for storage, though it's not recommended at all for the reason you mentioned. Great SHTF tool though.

>>636722

It'd be better to start making the explosives during SHTF to make yourself useful and use your practice recipe results ASAP on private property and tell no one. I might just be a sperg but I prefer consistency.

>>636723

Well, as a burger you're free to manufacture explosives for personal use anyway so there's not much preventing your from training, aside from being blown up. Otherwise, i'd stock up some rarer resources and/or tools. If anything, aluminum powder is easy to get and can be used for both really hot fuses and explosives like tannerite, as well as termites and even hotter molotovs. Potassium nitrate is openly sold in large quantities in agricultural stores and is a main element of a wide array of propellants, reactives and explosives. Anti-pipe clogging stuff can be a source for making some high concentration acids which are used in some of the more potent explosives. All of these things can be bought easily during all the time things can be bought and won't draw any attention to you due to their main use. Chemical equipment too, it can be invaluable for the hotter stuff, though it's not really necessary unless you mess with things like shaped charges, otherwise stuff like igdanite(ammonium nitrate+diesel) or ammonal(tannerite) will do the job just fine.

>>636724

>sold in large quantities in agricultural stores

I'm not sure but I think in america you need a license or some sort of proof of being a farmer to get that high nitrogen content shit, but I've never tried. I know some chemicals and compounds are hard to source and usually require business connections.

>>636725

It's basic fertilizer, used for anything from potted plants to growing vegetables. It might be ammonium nitrate that is regulated but you'll still be able to get it piss easy by trying to do farming. The thing that's hard to get is different acids an similar reagents and such while this is the most basic stuff you'll get from anyone growing stuff. At worst, find a friend that has some property and grows shit and ask for a bag or two to "try farming" or something, if he can get it he'll probably sell it to you too.

Yeah, ammonium nitrate is regulated after some city bombing but you can easily get it from a farmer that buys it in tons or from some sellers that have a more expensive but pure one. It's really hard to control and with such an arsenal i'm unsure why doesn't rural ever explode the hell out of any fucks, they've got literally tons of both components for 1 working explosive.

“farm Co-op’s for 50lb bags of AMMONIUM NITRATE 34-0-0 cost is from 9 to 15$ a bag."

"You can wash out the bentonite clay using methanol, which can be bought at hobby stores. It's used as RC car and plane fuel.

Water (and methanol) can be evaporated out of the AN by drying it in an oven. AN's melting point is 250 F, so water can be evaporated out of it pretty efficiently."

Careful with this method. Most methanol in hobby stores is actually glow plug engine fuel and contains 5-15% nitromethane. The methanol will evaporate, leaving nitromethane and castor oil (or synthetic). Nitromethane greatly increases the brisanance of AN and can sensitize it.

Info from ar15.com/forums/general/Fertilizer_and_homemade_tannerite/5-317835/

>>636728

I've learned to source explosives from distilled drug store goods, if I could get my hands on fertilizer it would be easier but that would require contacts with farmers that wasn't too red flaggy. I could definitely try and get my hands on it but since I can get it myself for small experiments it doesn't really bother me all that much to build it from scratch. I tend to enjoy the challenge.

>>636729

Find work with a lab. They can have all the fun shit and nobody is gonna give two shits.

>>636729

> distilled drug store goods

Good but you don't usually buy this stuff in large quanities, so you'd look weird buying 50 bottles of H2O2 or activated charcoal. That draws attention. In agriculture though, you'd draw attention if you buy too little of it fro its intended use. The stuff is too cheap and is used too often and in too large quantities to regulate it, aside from just causing a mess some wouldn't get in, like they always do.

>that would require contacts with farmers that wasn't too red flaggy

If you have a lawn, start growing something. Even grass would be ok, and trees need even less attention. Get some apple saplings, or grow mint, i dunno. You get the benefit of having the grown stuff too and won't probably use the amount of fertilizer that would matter.

>>636732

>Good but you don't usually buy this stuff in large quanities,

No you source it slowly over time, throw one in your cart every time you go to the store like when you're trying to get canned food for a bug in sitch. You don't rush it all at once that's susp af.

>If you have a lawn, start growing something

I might try this honestly, there are some farms nearby I could ask for supplies from and there's co-ops where I live.

>>636733

>I might try this honestly

Good luck. Also, the grown stuff is nice, especially the green one - you always have it as fresh as it gets, which can really change things a lot. Having an apple tree is cool too. The best part is that it's a completely valid and legitimate reason to get the stuff so you'll learn specifics along the way. The best type of lie - the one that is not one.

>>636794

This only works if you either work in a very lax company with a bunch of outdoorsmen/hippies who will treat your walking stick like a lifestyle accessory, or if you fake having a leg injury that requires support and can come up with some reason you're using the hardwood stick instead of a proper crutch or cane. I guess you could keep it in your car though, and a five-foot solid stick combined with proper training can make for decent close-combat prep.

>>636841

im all set, i have shitloads of steel and arthritis in my ankles. as to why im using a 1.3 meter long ash or japanese oak walking stick, its because i prefer wood to aluminium when it comes to beating minori- sorry, bearing my weight.

>>623405

>Of where he usually sits

This was the second indication of an unprepared man

The first was

>Fanny pack

I was surprised entirely that somebody would think a Fanny pack is enough space for an emergency go back. It's literally the size of a first aid kit. "Where he usually sits" means the dude doesn't do much. There's no usual seat for a busy man. Even your desk would be less than a fifth of your free time.

SMH fam sounds like a wannabe prepper 2 me

Here's what I carry for longer trips

Small hatchet or a machete

Long but not very wide gardening shovel (for collecting roots and making shelters)

Scissors(for foraging and cordage)

A mora

A good few meters of rope

A repair kit, with small bits of metal, wire, tape, etc

A small fishing kit

Food- usually some smoked meat and some trail mix, with some emergency soup powder if I don't find any edibles and some spices

Lots of water

A big pan

And whatever sleeping system is appropriate

>>623515

I'm pretty happy about the internet being around.

>>637080

I guess brazil is as close as we'll get to a post-apocalyptic situation right now.

>>636723

I can't help but think there's been a failure in planning somewhere if you need plastic explosives to reach your bug out location.

>>637293

>Thinks the roads are going to "b just lyke da world rite now" and he isn't going to get stuck

Good luck germ

>>637358

Very un-American mindset lad.

chad's guide to long-distance travel:

>pedal-powered paraglider

>cross-country rollerblades

>skis

>ice skates

>ultralight inflatable kayak

>legs

if you can't carry your mode of transportation on your person, you're basically a dumbass.

>>637358

It's not for the bugout bag. My whole point in my post was that knowledge is weightless and the best thing you can bug out with. I personally study a lot about chemistry, infrastructure, machining and engines. These skills overlap with one another and are vital to survival in a grid down situation. Once you start learning about electricity, it's easier to understand explosives, cars, architecture, radios, so on. Our society and infrastructure is all built on very basic mechanical skills made complex by specialization.

>>637293

No true Killdozer design provides a mechanism for the driver to exit the vehicle alive.

>>637481

They're also cute

>>637900

>Nuts are the most calorie dense food.

I carry nuts too, but I must correct you insofar as the most energetically dense food: the most dense is pure fat (solid fat slightly more so than liquid). That isn't palatable to most, but bear it in mind while planning. Compare the energy in, say, avocado oil (which doesn't burn the throat as much as olive oil when it is drank "straight up") vs an equivalent mass or volume of the nuts of your choice.

>Don't think you can eat nuts exclusively though.

Why not? Sure you can. I have eaten nothing but nuts for several days.

>Radically changing your diet can lead to problems like cramps and liquid shits.

No argument there.

>>637995

>>"my bag is only 18lb"

Kek.

>Pic related the kind of map you need.

A topo map, yes. You can find free topo data online, print out just your applicable area of interest on a few double sided pages of regular paper, and get it laminated at an office store.

>I also would have liked the medkit but he doesn't go into detail with it, a lot of extraneous stuff in off the shelf kits.

Yes, I made my own. I argue everyone should have a CAT7 tourniquet and know how to use it (note that practicing with a tourniquet can wear it out). Spend a few hours on your day off to take a local Stop the Bleed course. They are usually free… just ignore the political shit in the curriculum regarding Sandy Hoax and whatever.

https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search

>>637392

>normal fuel

Diesel?

>>638050

> I have eaten nothing but nuts for several days.

This is something I see often. "I ate nothing but freeze dried meals all weekend, no problem!"

I've tried various "survival" diets for up to a month. Nothing but trail mix. Nothing but freeze dried. Nothing but what I could catch or forage from my local area.

The only one that was no problem for a month was "nothing but canned food and rice."

fish/trap/forage: I lost 12lb in 3 weeks and didn't have the energy to continue.

Trail mix: liquishits after 4 or 5 days. I don't remember exactly. Gained weight tho.

Freeze dried: Couldn't stand the taste after about a week.

Survival cookies like in the video: Needed real food after 3 days.

MREs: Potentially doable, but I was pretty sick of them and didn't do the full month

Energy bars/protein bars: Massive constipation after a few days.

>>638228

>>I have eaten nothing but nuts for several days.

>This is something I see often. "I ate nothing but freeze dried meals all weekend, no problem!"

And, as the thread topic is "bug out bags" not "long term survival bunker stockpiles"… QED: yes, you can eat only nuts for the several days that your bugout bag is designed to be used for. My choice of what to carry in my bag is different than what I stockpile in a fixed shelter.

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for you folks to go look at backpacking forums. Look into what ultralight backpackers bring with them when they through-hike the entire Appalachian Trail carrying 10lbs or less on their backs (pack included.) This will give you a great starting point for any bug-out situation, as these people are actually out there living it.

I'm not saying you have to pare down your loadout to these levels, but remember that you'll be carrying guns and these people usually don't.

For food/water, the recommendation is usually:

- water filtration system rather than carrying large amounts of water (personally, I only have 8-12 fl. oz. of water on my person at any given time depending on how close I am to water sources… I also carry powdered electrolytes to add to it so I can squeeze every last bit of hydration out of smaller quantities of water)

- trail mix usually has the best caloric density per weight out of all edible foods (discounting things like pure olive oil); peanut butter, protein bars; energy gels/candy; I carry a small quantity of instant rice, maybe a brick of ramen; stock cubes as a comfort food for those cold, rainy nights

- if you can forego a camp stove entirely, that's the best option - just build a fire every night. If you want one for short-term bugout purposes, something like an Esbit stove is a great choice; for longer-term (a week or more) journeys, alcohol stoves reign supreme.

>>638308

I almost forgot; I like to keep a pouch of tuna or chicken in my pack as well. There's nothing like a tiny packet of buffalo chicken (from Starkist) to boost morale after being out in the elements for a few days and having nothing to eat but trail mix and rice.

Also, when I say "build a fire every night," I do not mean a full-on campfire. Your fires during a survival situation will be tiny, consisting mostly of twigs and small branches and the occasional larger branch. There is a difference between a survival fire and a camp fire; you will not (should not?) be carrying a hatchet, so you can't split wood for a camp fire.

>>638308

I looked at this and people who were homeless for long periods of time to see how they make long-term arrangements. Something I often think about is bag or leaf insulation under a poncho so you don't have to haul around clothes or a sleeping mat. Just pile up trash.

>>638311

If you have the money to spend on a quality air sleeping pad and a quilt/mummy bag, it can really improve your comfort in cold weather. My sleep system is pretty luxurious, weighs less than 3.5 lbs, packs down pretty small, and keeps me toasty on chilly fall nights without a fire or tent.

But you're absolutely right - any insulation you can find will keep you alive. I've slept on a bag of leaves before in milder climates, with nighttime temperatures dipping down into the 40s. Any less than that would be uncomfortable, but I could throw together something that would keep me alive below freezing.

>>638312

Another savior in cold weather is thermal underwear/socks. They're totally worth the weight. Now that I'm thinking about it, the aforementioned 40-degree night was accomplished without thermals because I didn't expect it to get so chilly… thermals would have improved my experience drastically.

Another thing about warmth: people underestimate how uncomfortable it is to be cold. If you don't believe me, turn the thermostat in your home down to 55 degrees for a few days during winter. I actually do this to condition myself for winter hikes/camping.

>>638311

One more important thing to remember is that involuntarily-homeless people are NOT living comfortably. Every year thousands of homeless people freeze to death. Voluntary homelessness is different - you can afford to plan for it, and it'll increase your comfort and survival chances drastically. Apologies for the multiple posts.

>>638312

> it can really improve your comfort in cold weather.

It can also weigh you down when you're trying to move.

>turn the thermostat in your home down to 55 degrees for a few days during winter.

I don't use heating, at all, ever. It's something like 50 degrees right now and I'm fine, I even notice that I can see my own damn breath inside my house. Thermals ain't a bad idea though.

>One more important thing to remember is that involuntarily-homeless people are NOT living comfortably.

Neither will apocalypse survivors, it's not exactly voluntary to bug out. It's not about comfort it's about managing resources, I wouldn't want to carry around a sleeping pad when I can make it out of readily available leaves.

>>638312

>If you have the money to spend on a quality air sleeping pad and a quilt/mummy bag, it can really improve your comfort in cold weather. My sleep system is pretty luxurious, weighs less than 3.5 lbs, packs down pretty small

I have a lot of quality backpacking equipment. I generally don't include those things in my bugout bag I keep with me in my vehicle. For example, you will destroy your expensive sleeping bag if you store it stuffed and compressed.

>>638320

My entire pack plus firearm when I'm on a hike weighs 11.63 pounds. I train with a 30 lb pack. My sleep system isn't weighing me down.

>50 degrees right now and I'm fine

You're also dry, well-fed, protected from the wind, and unstressed. Hypothermia can set in at as high as 50 degrees. It's 55 in my house now and I'm fine, but when I first cranked down my thermostat from 68 degrees a few years ago, it was a shock, and it can really fuck up a person who's not used to it.

>It's not exactly voluntary to bug out

Yet you still have the sense to put together a bugout bag to make it easier to survive. I could walk out my door with nothing but a knife and a Bic lighter right now and successfully survive for 7 days while covering 100 miles, nestling myself deep into the woods. I'm not going to do that though, because I don't HAVE to. I have the option to prepare, and I'm taking it.

>>638321

I keep my pad and quilt in my car with my pack, uncompressed. I don't generally use the stuff sack… I just shove it into my bag when I want to go. Also, I was mistaken about the weight… I meant 2.5 lbs, not 3.5. 39.72 oz, to be exact, for both the pad and the quilt with their stuff sacks.

>>638324

That's actually pretty neat. I don't know that I trust it to be as breathable as a quilt/bag (I opted for a quilt rather than a bag specifically so I could vent myself better in mild weather), and it certainly wouldn't be as comfortable, but I may pick one up.

>>638320

BTW if you can see your breath inside your house at 50 degrees, you should probably ventilate a little bit, because that kind of humidity is going to cause you some mold problems down the line bud.

>>638050

>the most dense is pure fat (solid fat slightly more so than liquid).

That's why foods like pemmican or salo/slanina are top tier survival foods, they're basically solid blocks of fat, sometimes marbled with protein. It's also rich in tannins which destroy parasites, which means you don't have to filter water as much. My BOB sustenance is basically just vacuum sealed pemmican blocks.

The only other things you need are water and occasionally some roughage which you can forage anywhere.

>>638228

>plant proteins/carbs

>animal proteins/carbs

Your problem seems to be a lack of roughage. Roughage provides fiber, vitamins and minerals needed to keep you alive.

You sound like some guy dumb enough to get scurvy. Humans aren't carnivores or herbivores, we're obligate omnivores. Meaning we get sick if we don't have variety in food.

The fiber is especially important, it provides the "volume" which is the cylinder that pushes out your shit, and also it serves as a "sponge" that picks up toxins and byproducts your body can't absorb.

Fiber is the reason why we can't make food pills.

>muh bivvy

<what do when something bad happens?

<retreat to a safe area, construct a bivouac, wait for help

This is a meme for tourists popularized by british adventure novelists.

>>638228

>fish/trap/forage

I'd like to know more about specifically what you were eating during this time and what gear you brought with you. Availability of food is the only thing stopping me from being able to live in the woods indefinitely, so knowing where you failed could help me greatly.

>>638655

>what gear you brought with you

In regards to fishing/trapping, that is. Were you line fishing? Were you constructing traps out of material found in nature? Did you hunt at all (firearms, bow, etc.)?

>>638777

>As an emergency bivy for 1 or 2 nights to shiver inside of, fully clothed but out of the wind and rain? Theyre great for that (I have several of the smallest SOL bivy's myself),

Nice. That is why I selected it for my bugout bag. Far more compact and light than my down sleeping bag I use backpacking.

>but absolutely not appropriate to consider for a ling term sleeping system, especially in northern climes.

Yeah, my EDC bugout bag isn't my "escape into the backcountry of the Rocky Mountains to overwinter there" bag, which is also why I am happy to load the bugout bag with an imbalanced diet of nuts, nut butter packets, protein bars, +/- a bit of avocado oil. That is the diet I would want to keep my energy up for the few days my bag is intended to be used for. I prefer to use the right tool for a given job, and my EDC bugout is targeted for that.

But hey, this is /k/. I expected more debate on which armaments are in the bag/loadout as opposed to "sleeping bag vs bivvy" and "nuts vs well balanced diet". Is anyone packing a suppressed 22LR? Has anyone selected a short AR w/ pistol brace?

>>638782

>armaments

I imagine this is where /k/ theory will diverge from that of the ultralight backpacking crowd.

When I'm on a hike, I carry bear spray and a Ruger LCP. No extra ammo. This is what I would have in a bug-out scenario, and I'd be perfectly content with it. Most backpackers carry less than that.

>>638790

>I imagine this is where /k/ theory will diverge from that of the ultralight backpacking crowd.

It really all depends on your expected scenario. If your bag is targeted for an extended "man vs wild" backcountry engagement in the far north in the winter, then that's vastly different than targeting for having to bugout several days, possibly on foot, across urban/suburban territory in the southern US with possible chimpouts underway. No one bag/loadout is going to be universally ideal.

>>638799

Very true. It's almost pointless to debate. In the area I'm in, and for the situation I anticipate, I'm totally fine with very little in the way of firepower. Different hypothetical situations and locations would change that, to the point where I could see myself packing several rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo in some scenarios.

However, the basic surviving-in-the-wilderness-while-remaining-mobile loadout IS pretty universal, with some common sense allowances for differences in climate. I think that's the point of this thread. That's where ultralight backpacking comes into play, and I think that even for many city-dwellers their bugout plan is "escape the city, live in the wilderness."

>>638782

>nuts, nut butters, avocado, short term

I've got a 750mL ti pot and lid on order. I'm going to be experimenting with cold soaking quinoa (much higher levels of essential amino acids and fatty acids than rice, more fiber as well) to figure out how much I should prepack in zip lock bags to make 2 square meals a day. That, plus the mylar packs of tuna or spam will make up the "heavy" meals for each day. Can be eaten cold or with minimal heated water depending on the weather/environment I find myself in. I have found the lemon flavored RX bars to be very good, dense and nutritious. I eat those regularly enough to rotate through the pack for freshness, and so that they are a regular part of my diet. Fiber is key, a small ziploc bag of fiber certainly wont hurt you on the trail.

I posted the homemade protein bar recipe earlier, forgot to mention that the recipe can likely be improved with casein protein rather than whey (if you have IBS, whey concentrate doesnt bother me most of the time, regular whey does, casein does not at all) and with adding a small quantity of calcium propionate to the dry mix to act as a preservative. Then vaccuum seal in mylar as individually wrapped ration bars.

http://bakerpedia.com/ingredients/calcium-propionate/

>>638790

>armaments

I live south of a major city, reasonable commuting distance. Will buy me time if there is a major event, especially if vehicles are damaged (grid down/CME or EMP). I have a few glock 19's, plenty of mags and ammo. I also have a keltec sub2k in 9mm. Need to pick up another one, honestly, theyre quite fun to shoot. I would like to say a fn5-7, as the ammo is so small and light, but I am not man who wears hand sewn suit of italian fascists. I have an mpa5-7, but I dont have the cash to stash nearly as much 5.7x28 as I can 9mm or 5.56, so it is a range toy for now. Maybe if I hit the lottery.

>Question for everyone:

<Has anyone bought the compressed "toilet paper/paper towel" pods and had success with them?

I find the concept tempting. I currently have about 3 weeks of tp individually vaccuum packed, and just have 3 boxes of shop towels as my paper towel back up. I have some mild GI issues, so even with a stable diet sometimes its unpredictable, so being able to pack a literal shitload of tp equivalent into small spaces would be helpful.

>>638802

> and I think that even for many city-dwellers their bugout plan is "escape the city, live in the wilderness."

I'd say that there is some merit to bugging in or making a go home bag vs bugging out to innawoods. IMO unless someone already has a fairly good innawoods location to go to and already familiar with it and ideally already got their ass innawoods cabin.

If the risk of a chimpout in your area is low to miniscule, there's a good chance someone can survive if they have a minimum of 2 weeks water, food, medicine etc. If it's something like an impending natural disaster then yeah of course try to avoid an Escape from NOlean's Katrina hellhole. If it's really large scale as in outright war, for most people it's not innawoods time but time to get in a plane and go to another country that is safe(r).

I say most because some of you fuc/k/s here would relish "oh shit it's habbenig tiem", can't say I blame you either just remember that the majority of people would rather go elsewhere than go full Doomguy. But there are days, that I really understand why some would rather rip and tear the huge guts.

>>638899

>bugging in or making a go home bag

Yep, absolutely. It just seems to me that if you have the tools to live in the woods, then you have at least enough to live in an abandoned building, under a bridge, on the street, etc., although you'd probably want more firepower on hand. Maybe I'm just talking out my ass here though because I don't live in a major metropolitan area… if I had to leave my home on foot right now, I could be several miles into the woods with camp set up and meat on the fire in about 8 hours.

My easy access to and familiarity with the wilderness means it's always going to be my first choice for any fairly localized disaster. Hell, there are days where I think I would prefer living in the woods even without a disaster.

Anyway, what would make a good "get home bag" for someone living in a more urban area? What kind of scenario are we talking? You're at work when you hear the news, then all of a sudden the power's out, the roads are clogged, there are riots in the streets, trigger-happy cops are all over the place, and all you want to do is get home?

>>638910

>what would make a good "get home bag" for someone living in a more urban area? What kind of scenario are we talking? You're at work when you hear the news, then all of a sudden the power's out, the roads are clogged, there are riots in the streets, trigger-happy cops are all over the place, and all you want to do is get home?

Emergency bivy in a drab color, change of socks, bodyglide or bodypowder, assortment of small food bars, water bottles and a means to filter then purify, flashlight, headlamp and batteries, map of the area. Gun and lotsa bullets.

>>638920

Some camouflage may be in order too, depending on what the environment is. Especially since the idea is to avoid conflict and people as a whole when you leg it back home.

>>638910

>Anyway, what would make a good "get home bag" for someone living in a more urban area? What kind of scenario are we talking? You're at work when you hear the news, then all of a sudden the power's out, the roads are clogged, there are riots in the streets, trigger-happy cops are all over the place, and all you want to do is get home?

Good comfortable shoes and socks that someone can walk or run in, it does not have to be specifically sneakers or running shoes, just something durable yet something you can still move in, but definitely avoid the overly Military Look. For those who have female loved ones, try to at least make them pack some sort of sensible shoes and socks. Those with workboots, go for wide toes version. Change of sensible clothes or at least pants with some pockets, apply mostly to the females of your family and loved ones but can apply to males as well. Regular stuff like your wallet including whatever IDs you usually carry, but some cash never ever hurts in an emergency. It doesn't have to be a thousands, just as a rough ballpark to start say a taxi ride home's worth plus a few more dollars or so, or for a night at a motel. By the way that is more likely to happen unless you are in the middle of a ground zero chimpout tornado.

Re-usable water container, this does not have to be some spec-ops prepper stuff. A stainless or insulated stainless water bottle is good enough for most 90% occasion. A bag that does not scream out"MILITARY WANNABE", christ even a laptop type bag can do. Nothing that will draw too much attention, you're not that crazy "prepper" guy that talmudvision tries to smear, you're just Steve the guy who always brings his large water bottle because you think hydration is important. And you carry a basic first aid kit somewhere in your bag because hey shit happens, even a papercut can be annoying and the workplace kit doesn't always have everything. And who doesn't like a few extra snacks just in case of a long commute. No one has to know that you may or may not have a lifestraw, or have a firearm because it's none of their business.

Swiss army knife or multi tool, a mini AA or AAA led flashlight preferably single mode, 2 mode maximum. There are singe AA, angle flashlights with a clip that can be used as a makeshit headlamp with a baseball hat brim. A hat. A lighter, even a BIC can do. Zip ties, you know the stuff you already carry for fixing small things or for cable management. FM radio, if your cellphone is not equipped with one. No one will believe any story you come up with regarding your full size gasmask. Your surgical mask or N95 mask that fits in your bag because you have lingering hayfever and dust allergies though. A plain colored but not welders mitt level thick, leather work glove, mostly because how dapper it makes you look but thick enough to protect your hands.

If it hypothetically comes down to "holy fucking shit Pissrael and Mecca exchanged nukes, shit is really going fucking down everyone remain where you are until further notice", and you are stuck at work for a while. The stuff you normally carry anyway can stil be useful. IMO that's the main goal for urban area, aim for "normal" Steve that does not draw attention, you are just a countless face in the crowd. That's the type of camo you want in an urban environment because the hyenas are kinda different.

Again unless you are in the middle of a chimpout ground zero, most of the time your biggest danger is panicked lemmings and (((merchants))) jacking up prices during an emergency.

>>638927

>FM radio, if your cellphone is not equipped with one.

If it has AM or other band, even better. There are compact ones and hey you just like those retro things, imagine a compact device that you can listen to stuff on without needing internet access. But if there is a big enough emergency then there is a good chance that even that info will be broadcasted on FM.

>>638655

>>638656

Always wear pantyhose stockings, they are impromptu fish nets. Simply take them off, put the open end upstream and the legs downstream, into a really fast river. Keep it there for awhile. Fish or crab will eventually get in and be trapped.

And if you put a billiard ball in it, it becomes a massive flail which you can use to take down larger animals.

>>638777

>>638782

>sleeping bag vs bivvy

Nigra…

GET GOOD CLOTHING

You can literally sleep on the ground.

Fucking think about it, if you need an extra layer of clothes, it's because you weren't clothed right when you walked out.

>>639323

I genuinely want to see what's in your bugout bag. A change of your fishnet pantyhose, a billiard ball, perhaps a rubber chicken, cosmoline, and a vibrating dildo molded after a grizzly bear's penis…?

>>639376

So, you're saying that in your bag you have a rainbow clown wig, a grizzly bear penis dildo, a billiard ball, cosmoline, the full series of original edition The Fantastic Adventures of Captain Sweden issues, a change of fishnet pantyhose, tampons (for the bullet holes), stiletto heels (doubles as a melee weapon), and some plastic drinking straws (the kind that bend, obviously)?

How much does it weigh?

>>639374

I don't have a rubber chicken in my pack, it's a rubber

>>639401

If that's happening, your clothing is garbage. LAYERS negro, a bedouin wears the same clothes when it's -10C and +50C. And it's simple as fuck to carry a liner or padding for a jacket.

>dressed in tshirt

>carries around a bivvy

>hot weather during day when moving, pack the liner away

<yay im happy

>cold weather during night, cover up with bivvy

<yay im happy

>have to move at night rapidly, cant get out of bivvy, if you do its too cold to move

<sad panda

>cold weather during day when having to move, and ends up carrying bivvy sack wrapped around the body like a toga

<sad panda

OR

>dressed in light summer jacket

>carries around felt liner for winter

>hot weather during day when moving, pack the liner away

<yay im happy

>cold weather during night, add felt liner, and sleep on the ground always ready for action

<yay im happy

>cold weather during day when having to move, add felt liner and keep going

<yay im happy

>>639423

Totally agreed about the layers. I use a lightweight, packable puffer jacket as a liner for my rain jacket.

I would still not sleep on the ground unless I had to - during the summer I don't bring my quilt or air pad, but I do bring a cheap, lightweight foam pad just to stay comfortable and dry.

>>636901

I tried that recipe some years ago and those bars taste like shit and you need a lot of water to swallow them down.

Its like some retard on a vegan trip googled the most protein dense plants his stupid diet allows him and threw it all together.

The majority of the ingredients have their own heavy taste and the maple syrup basically exist as a desperate attempt to mask the awful taste when they are combined.

Also flax/linseed can give you diarrhea if eaten too much.

>>639509

>Its like some retard on a vegan trip googled the most protein dense plants

That's more or less what happened, I think I was in that thread, on the /fit/ board. Fucker kept shitting on everyone suggesting meat.

>>639423

Dog I don’t know what kind of winters you get where you’re at but without 2 pretty solid jackets here you’ll die from exposure during the winter here in about a day.

Most people get away with a single winter jacket in the day to day because they are outside for like 10 minutes between their car and whatever building they are in. So I see where you are coming from with the layers argument but you need dedicated gear not some kind of universal fleece liner thing

>>639812

I'd love to see this guy roll around with his felt liners.

I tend to plan for worst case scenario: soaking wet, worst seasonal temperatures, high winds, low activity level. So, base layer, midweight insulating/lofting layer(s), preferably some sort of hardshell outer layer. Remove hardshell layer while sheltering in bivy. Insulate/elevate from the ground as much as possible.

If its cold and dry(in my area, generally below 25*F) and you can maintain a relatively steady level of activity (e.g. steady walking pace over uneven terrain while laden with gear), you can stay survivably warm with silkweights, good socks, shorts, longsleeve tshirt/lightweight fleece, and neck gaiter/buff and thin gloves. You should keep an insulating layer very readily accessible for when you stop for more than a few minutes.

Seasonally we will see short periods where temps drop to around/slightly below 0*F. If you can keep moving, silkweights, grid fleece mid layers and a softshell outer layer will keep you warm.

Were I bugging out, I would try to move during the night/early morning hours, as it will be coldest during this period, and rest in the mid morning hours. A warming/drying/cooking fire is less likely to give you away with its light during the day. The smoke will be easier for you to keep an eye on, you can set up a shelter to take advantage of the heat from the sun (to the extent that is possible).

If my activity level is going to be lower, I'm going to wear more even at warmer layers.

My clothing system reflects my weather and environment, as should everyone's.

Realistically, my bugout will be with family to either another family members house, a hotel or a shelter. Worst case is I am walking across country in the cold/damp weater between 40*F and 25*F.

>>639792

>This thing is magic, its basically a modernized vatnik suit.

Its actually older than the vatnik suit. The padded jacket was invented by US american Eddie Bauer in the 1930, the vatnik suit was first issued to the red army in the 1940.

>>636408

>not personal_helicopter.webm

>>641584

Actchuahlly, the jacket was invented by Ugg Rock. He also invented a type of warm leather boot.

>>643395

actually the crawler transporter was designed by a nazi immigrant, so maybe its that way for a reason?

>>623405

Cliff bars are not made with soy products

>>643892

NASA was for the most part ex-SS scientists, in particular von Braun. Imagine the insane shit they've got locked away.

>>643892

Worse yet, imagine if germany had enough steel to build it.

The main drawback of the Schwerer Gustav were the railroad tracks, which limited where it can be aimed and how well it can avoid bombers.

If it was free to move around…. with RAP shells this thing can sit in France and bomb Britain, with no way to counterattack. This ensures that Germany would have a ready beachhead whenever it wanted, they could have overran the isles in 1941 which would mean American bombers couldn't reach Germany. German Western front would be safe until 1946, they could take their time and consolidate there.

Instead of Schwerer we get his retarded brother Karl.

>>623528

>Burgers had difficulties fighting in simple sandnigger towns against 70 IQ monkeys armed with AKs.

That they weren't allowed to shoot at until they were shot at first.

Scorched earth is the only way to win.

>>636281

I mean you can just put the wrench on the knob and twist the opposite way of how it normally turns and the door knob breaks and opens. But I am unaware of how to open a deadbolt with one as I have only used this trick on doors without.

>t. Former junkie

>escaping a city on foot

Hop on a freight train, I hear USA has a very large and complex network of rail lines, With enough planning you can hitch a ride anywhere in the country

>>644284

All of which will be promptly shut down if there's widespread chaos.

That being said, it's a good idea to at least have a map that includes railways in your area. Personally, I'm hopjng there's a coal train stuck on a siding thats just down the river from me if the shtf. I'll at least have a ready source of fuel if that's the case. There are also coal storage yards a few miles in either direction, though, obviously the greater the distsnce the greater the risk of being interfered with while transporting it.

>>644091

That's not what scorched earth is.

Scorched earth is a defensive guerrilla tactic used to put the odds of attrition slightly more on your side when you have a lot of land and are being invaded by an overwhelimg force.

It was developed by Vercingetorix's confederation to counter Julius Kaesar's looting of the gaulish countryside.

Scorched Earth showed its drawbacks once Kaesar started taking gaulish cities before they could burn or move their winter grain storage.

>>644518

If freight trains shut down, then half of the country will starve within three weeks anyway. Most of the food being delivered to the US west coast relies on only two rail shipping lines.

It's the same problem with Canada; if only a handful of railroad shipping lines shut down, the provinces outside of the prairies would rely on trucks and boats for food shipping, which cannot possibly suffice for feeding everyone. Importing from abroad would not suffice either. Famine would ensue.

>>644284

Hitching a ride on a freight train is hard. Convenient empty wagons are actually extremely rare because of optimized shipping efficiency; you can't take this as a reliable method of transport. And it's definitely not a safe method of transport either, because you can bet that other people will also have the same bad idea as you. And trains do not stop between loading/unloading centers, so you'll be holding on for your life for hours on end.

There's a reason why at least a third of the hobos found trying to hitchhike on a train are found dead, not alive. The others are arrested, because security will rigorously check the whole freight train when it arrives at a destination.

Then there's the risk of train hijacks if the area is really plunged in utter chaos and completely disorganized. Some railway pirates in poorer countries have been known to outright derail trains just to loot whatever could be salvaged/enslaved from the crash.

Trust me, you are safer just going on foot or on a bicycle. A good mountain bike is best, it goes everywhere, doesn't make much sound, and can go between tightly-packed cars to pass through traffic jams, which is where most people will get stuck at the moment SHTF unless they already live innawoods.

>>637900

>>>623678

>I've probably watched 50 BOB videos and this is the first I've seen that wasn't pants-on-head retarded. Good find anon.

YES. Gray-bearded green beret is great. Another true expert on youtube is Dave Canterbury. Most "survival" youtubers are either idiots or larpers trying to shove affiliate links down your throat and telling you to buy tons of gimmicky crap.

>My bag is fairly different from his, but most of the differences are minor.

Same here, basically; except I pack a whole lot more thermal insulation; because northern winters. "Ultralight" becomes only "light" when you have to plan for subzero temperatures literally half of the year.

>Biggest thing he gets wrong is food. The idea that you'll be able to trap, fish or forage for food in the wilderness is basically a meme. You may be able to get some, but more often than not you'll burn more energy than you gain.

Also this. People somehow think that nature is idyllically filled with woodland critters, while in fact they are getting rarer and rarer. I've seen a lot more squirrels and racoons since I moved to a major urban center than during all my time growing up and hunting in rural nowhere. The only relatively abundant thing left in the woods here is bears, because they don't have predators (except for car and truck bumpers) and they're omnivores that eat basically anything. They've also started breeding with all the polar bears that are migrating southwards; which makes them extra bloodthirsty. The other thing that we have a lot of are deer, but the fuckers are moving further north every year, away from where all the humans are, and unfortunately away from the places where you'll be needing them when/if SHTF.

>>>626079

>Nuts are the most calorie dense food. Don't think you can eat them exclusively though. Radically changing your diet can lead to problems like cramps and liquid shits. Not show stoppers, but if you're bugging out you already have enough problems.

This, it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that your body be acclimated to the stuff you're going to eat while your life is on the line.

Also, beans/chickpeas and rice are altogether pretty good as far as caloric density goes, and form a complete protein. It's also really cheap to stock a lot of this stuff at your bugout location, with dried spices and long shelf-life seasoning or stuff to make sauces.

>>623405

Soy, especially when fermented, is an economical and efficient source of protein and vitamins.

Just how much rigorous research about nutritional science did you do?

In case you were scared of eating stuff that contains plant hormones; just know that pretty much all meat (even the hippie organic "no hormones added" meat) contains about as much estrogen as soy does phytoestrogen; *except it's actual mammalian estrogen*.

Phytoestrogen does interface with your body's estrogen receptors to some extent, but it usually doesn't register as estrogen at all; meaning that most of what it does is block the estrogen receptor; therefore slightly inhibiting the actual effects of your body's normal estrogen.

If anything, phytoestrogen virtually tilts your effective testosterone/estrogen balance towards comparatively higher testosterone.

You'd have to drink dozens of 2-liter cartons of soymilk per week , like, 4 liters of soymilk per day, in order for it to maybe make a difference in the very long run, after years of this very unbalanced diet. Now, consider that most ridiculously-unbalanced diets like this one would also have effects on your hormone levels, regardless of what you're eating.

Also, cliff bars don't even contain soy at all. But most of the bullshit "manliness-enhancing" "supplements" sold online to gullible beta cuks do contain soy, ironically.

>>644543

Cliff bars, the regular variety, do contain soy. Soy protein isolate, roasted soybeans, soy flour. Their protein bars also contain soy. But, most protein bars contain soy and a lot of protein powder brands use it too so you're not that wrong, you're just not right.

If you're looking it's not hard to find a supplement brand that doesn't use soy. They are usually a bit more expensive though.

>>644546

You are correct about the clif bars ingredients list, I dropped the ball on that last part. Their granola bar and a couple others don't have soy or soy protein as an ingredient though. I was thinking that only their protein bars had soy protein isolate and flour in them, like most protein bars do, but that extends to most of their other products as well.

As for the supplements thing, I was referring to products like infowars' "Brain Force" supplement, which contains soy even though infowars itself claims that soy should always be avoided like the plague (except when they're the ones selling it…). I have friends who wasted a lot of money on this stuff.

Pack lithium batteries, not disposable crap. They last longer, are more reliable, and are RECHARGEABLE.

You have to rotate out disposable batteries every once in a while because they go bad even if you don't use them, which is a waste of money and resources.

At least you can eat the food that you have to rotate out of your BoB; but you're not gonna start using flashlights every 6 months instead of turning the lights on in your house just because your AAA batteries need to be rotated out and you don't want to waste the money you paid for them.

Keeping a crank-charger or small solar charger at your bug-out location makes long-lasting rechargeable batteries even more cost-effective in the long run. Most of the stuff that runs on lithium batteries has a USB-standard charging port nowadays, so you don't need a bunch of different chargers.

>>644555

I have rechargeables for all my battery types except coin watch batteries and cr2's because no reliable ones seem to exist.

I also have multiple usb chargers and a fast solar panel.

I plan to burn through disposables and then have rechargeables as a last resort.

>>636514

90% of doors you come across are much easier/faster to open with standardized maintenance keys or sliding something thin along the bolt for improperly installed doors. You can carry lockpicks too but they shouldn't be your main priority. Embed for more.

>>644701

Just a thought for you, from an adult sucking on a technopenis nicotine delivery device. Buy some vape fluid. 120 ML of 9-12mg nicotine will run about 30 bucks. You can find higher nicotine content in juices ment for RDAs, highest I've seen was 22mg.

>>644756

I only use nicotine when absolutely necessary to get through my days, otherwise I'd consider it. In terms of bug-out bags, fluids are much more "dangerous" to keep on hand than solids.

>>644701

>but as someone who's borderline narcoleptic at work

Does anyone else have that problem? I've always been extremely prone to falling asleep if I'm not busy. I've had days with 14 hours of physical labor where I get home and don't feel a thing, and I have days where I'm in an office chair either forcing my eyes open or catching quiet ZZZs between 2-3PM. Am I just lazy or undisciplined?

>>644778

I think it's just the natural human sleep schedule- when our needs are met, our bodies want to sleep if we aren't actively busy in order to preserve energy. I have the same problem, though for me it hits about an hour later.

>>644779

It's probably that. My body is just trying to maximize what I get out of downtime. But how do you counter it without stimulants? Pushups every 30 minutes?

>yeah you don't seem to be doing anything important at that computer, it's naptime

>yeah you stopped eating fatty foods, I guess I'm going to store every piece of fat I can since the supply is dropping

Thankfully keto fixed the second one for me.

>>644531

It is dangerous, but you do not need an empty wagon to ride a freight train, just need a grain hopper style one that has a cubby hole you can cram yourself into. Also; shift changes occur often between loading yards and are great times to hop on or off.

I agree a bicycle is a great mode of transport, I would prefer gravel/cx over mountain because I like the drop bars and slim tires.

>>644529

>If freight trains shut down, then half of the country will starve within three weeks anyway. Most of the food being delivered to the US west coast relies on only two rail shipping lines.

Purely out of scientific curiosity, which two rail lines are these? Could one hypothetically find maps of these two lines, and perhaps locate some choke-points?

>>644889

>Purely out of scientific curiosity, which two rail lines are these? Could one hypothetically find maps of these two lines, and perhaps locate some choke-points?

Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railway (BNSF) and Union Pacific are the two. Their whole lines are a gigantic, country-wide, chokepoint.

Anyway, it's NOT top secret information, and shutting down a freight line is not something some lone sod on the internet can do either.

We're only talking about economic or natural disasters if we're talking about train shipping lines being disabled; they've got effective contingency plans against terrorist attacks, but not against stuff like earthquakes, floods, volcanic eruptions, etc. And they have ZERO protection against worker strikes, economic collapse, or just simple bankruptcy.

The point I was making about food is that trucking heavy, high-volume and low-value goods long-distances just isn't profitable, so it's entirely dependant on railways for economically-viable cross-country shipping. This has fun and unexpected effects, such as, if Union Pacific and BNSF suddenly went out of business, probably owing to mismanagement or some kind of hedge fund shenanigans, then we'd all starve.

Propping up a new railway consortium to pick up the slack would take longer than the time necessary to deplete store inventories, because warehouses are pretty much no longer a thing these last couple decades.

>>645145

>Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railway (BNSF) and Union Pacific are the two.

West of the Mississippi they're the big boys, yeah, but even limiting ourselves to the Class 1s you're forgetting the Chessie&Seaboard, Norfolk Southern, and the Kansas City Southern, plus the lines that the Canadian Pacific, Canadian National, and Ferromex operate in the continental united states.

>Their whole lines are a gigantic, country-wide, chokepoint.

You understand that, even when considering a single corridor like Seattle to Chicago, and even confining yourself to the network of a single railroad, there's still more than one way to get from point A to point B, right? And railroads share crews, equipment (see: TTX), and right-of-way all the time, if taking a detour through another company's territory is what they need to to get trains moving, they make the call and get it done. The operations of these railroads are a whole lot more interconnected than you realize or give them credit for.

> if Union Pacific and BNSF suddenly went out of business

Because when a company goes bankrupt, all of their assets vanish into thin air, right? It's not like there aren't a dozen or so regional railroads that wouldn't love to grab a bigger piece of the pie.

How much rope is enough? 75ft?

>>645155

>We're only talking about economic or natural disasters if we're talking about train shipping lines being disabled; they've got effective contingency plans against terrorist attacks, but not against stuff like earthquakes, floods, volcanic eruptions, etc. And they have ZERO protection against worker strikes, economic collapse, or just simple bankruptcy.

>The point I was making about food is that trucking heavy, high-volume and low-value goods long-distances just isn't profitable, so it's entirely dependant on railways for economically-viable cross-country shipping. This has fun and unexpected effects, such as, if Union Pacific and BNSF suddenly went out of business, probably owing to mismanagement or some kind of hedge fund shenanigans, then we'd all starve.

>Propping up a new railway consortium to pick up the slack would take longer than the time necessary to deplete store inventories, because warehouses are pretty much no longer a thing these last couple decades.

Not at all. The "Railroads for National Defense Program" was designed to deal with those exact threats. The importance of rail to the DoD can not be overstated, the MTMC (Military Traffic Management Command) has contingency operation plans in place in the event numerous Class 1's were to be affected by war, terrorism, disaster, strike, construction, mergers, bankruptcies, or abandonment.

The entire rail system nationwide was designed with built-in redundancies, much of it at the request of the US Government out of a concern for national defense. In a national emergency, such as an economic collapse under the "Railroads and Highways for National Defense Program", the FRA & DoD would assume control of some 38,000 miles of interconnected rail to some 193 critical defense installations/facilities.

Under the RND, if required the entire rail system can be nationalized and placed under the control of the FRA or DoD, similar to how the Army Appropriations Act placed the railroads under control of the USRA.

>>637293

reminder that he literally concreted himself in, and the only way out was death

>>637481

>Keeping horses

>innacity

Chances are if you have horses, the only bugging out situations you have to worry about are forest fires, volcanoes, or massive flooding

- Knowledge. Knowledge weighs nothing.

>>654887

yeah, but try staying warm at night without proper clothing because all you had on was some skinny jeans and a t-shirt

>>654860

Feeding horses on the go can be a bitch. All it takes is the dumb animal to eat one wrong thing or you're in an area where it can't graze then its over.

>>654933

We can avoid that minor happening by riding the quadricycles.

>>623749

>Multiplication of everything about you

But Anon…What if you're an autist?

Is a steel helmet a good thing to have as bug out gear or is there better things worth their weight?

>>637900

>Biggest thing he gets wrong is food.

I don't see him relying on the food harvesting much. His dedicated fishing/hunting kit is less the 1 oz of weight.

>>637995

>For some reason he showcases a muslim rag as a filtration method. What?

Rag is for initial filtration of muddy water that is to dirty and clog filter if used straight away. Also it has other functions: collecting water from very shallow puddles and can be used for thermal isolation of water container.

>>644567

Very nice, thanks anon.

>>623409

The world is going to shit and you're worried about having constipation. Sit and think about that for a moment and maybe you don't want to bug out after all.

I'd start with transport and build everything else around that. I'd start with a moped or an e-bike, something that can ride on shoulders of the road while traffic is stopped. Something that can run on some other kind of power but can be pedaled by you when it runs out of everything else. Because you can bet the first thing that will happen is a traffic jam because the roads are not wide enough to carry everyone who wants out, if they all want out at once.

Maybe a bicycle isn't the way out. Maybe the way out is a small airplane, if you can afford to learn how to fly and have access to an airport. Guarantee you there won't be a traffic jam in the sky.

Last thing you want is some sort of car or truck, doesn't matter whether it's AWD or electric or whatnot. Again, traffic jams will make all cars useless.

Once you've got that figured out, everything else is more or less an afterthought, IMHO. Plenty of people have put together lists of items, just go down the lists and pick and choose, make sure that whatever you pack will fit on your transport vehicle.

Also, once you've got your moped - use it. Pedal it at least 5 miles a week just so you know what you can do and what it can do. And that's a minimum, shoot for doing 10 miles if you can.

>>637481

Horsies require constant food and a LOT of maintenance. And the horseshit never stops coming either. At least while they're useful anyway. And they need pasture land and stabling. If you already have a horsie of your very own (not some rental club horsie) you're already bugged out permanently. You can stop reading about bugging out and move on to prepping and going offgrid.

>>644701

If it's legal where you are then modafinil is probably the best option.

>>644701

Whiffing this or hand sanitizer will snap ya back into consciousness

https://www.amazon.com/Ammonia-Inhalant-33-10-box/dp/B00096ZO2E

Can anybody recommend a pack I can keep in my truck when I go to work.

> work out of state

> If we commence to boogaloo I may have to trek 800 miles to get home to my family. Probably less as I would just run my truck till it dies.

It would probably take me a month to get home since I would have to avoid two major cities. I have an alice pack but I know there are better packs.

>>670562

By the time you got home there would be nothing left of it. If you work out of state you sacrifice your ability to protect your family.

>>670597

So you say. Either way I'd appreciate a suggestion.

>>660833

Moped are great but all the classic ones are easier to leave behind if out of gas. Pedals just for legal loop-hole. Maybe one those add-on motors. E-bike don't sound workable except for known commutes with power on both ends.

>>670562

Honestly your alice pack if its got the frame will probably be enough provided its the large sack.

>>671251

Slow moving, low flying, loud af airborne target. You're gonna be target practice for every person within a reasonable distance with any sort of weapon. Also extremely exposed to the elements, not to mention unable to fly in severe weather.

>>671404

>low flying

Not necessarily, you can take paramotors up beyond the range of any handheld weapon

>slow moving

30mph may not be particularly fast, no, but does the average marksman have the capability of hitting a man sized target moving 30mph at 5000ft?

>loud af

Can be negated, at least in part, by altitude

>target practice for every person within a reasonable distance with any sort of weapon

What sort of SHTF situation are you envisioning where everybody takes it upon themselves to kill everyone else they see? If you were bugging out and you saw a paramotor, are you going to give away your position by opening up on it?

>Also extremely exposed to the elements

Reasonable, but as a short transport to get you out of a danger zone that's bearable.

>unable to fly in severe weather

True.

Honestly, the real issue I see with paramotors is payload. I think your best option, if you were set on using one would be to have a stash somewhere reasonably safe that you use your paramotor to get to. So if you live on the edge of a city, use your paramotor to get to the countryside where you've got a rented shack filled with supplies.

>>671411

>>671411

>30mph may not be particularly fast, no, but does the average marksman have the capability of hitting a man sized target moving 30mph at 5000ft?

5000ft is rookie numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawnchair_Larry_flight

At 15,000 you will be doing 30mph "for free". Just take a little planning and maybe one or two "land and wait" to get more or less where you want. But consider that with a little food, water and guts you could travel across the USA.