/k/ - Weapons

An AK-107 that shoots 9×39mm at over 2000 meters per second. Almost no recoil and can penetrate any body armor known to man.

I had just came up with what I thought was a cool new idea, only to find out that it already exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_(munition)

Can we with near-future materials scale down Vulcan-like 20mm autocannons to man-portable size? If yes is it possible for man-portable tripods or similar measures to deal with that kind of recoil?

Are pure carbon-based composite/graphene barrels a thing even in theory?

Make a GPMG that is so light and handy that you can use it as a SMG, and accurate enough to be a DMR, all the while firing a cartridge that is effective at least up to 1km. Call it something like service rifle or infantry rifle.

>>587022

>clip

>>587040

>The idea of identifying and engaging the enemy at such great ranges is only realistic if we assume the enemy is not expecting your presence, and thus does not attempt to hide.

Define the target and the goal. Because by effective up to 1km all I mean is that you can suppress small groups of people with short bursts, or maybe damage unarmoured vehicles. And a cartridge that has a point blank range of 250-300m should have enough energy to do that with a well-shaped bullet.

>After news gets around of the enemy attacking from longer ranges with small arms, the enemy will be much more cautious.

And a more cautious enemy has to be less aggressive, therefore you have a better chance at dictating the flow of battle. E.g. it does matter if they always have to set up GPMGs on tripods to cover their movement.

>A cartridge effective for a GPMG will never be effective in an individual weapon and vice versa.

Define effective. 7.62x54mmR works reasonably well both in the PKM and the Dragunov.

>If you can keep your army supplied with tampons, pads and other cunty bullshit than you can certainly field another small arms cartridge.

If you only use your army as a glorified police force in third world shitholes, then sure, you can waste all the money you want and you can strain your logistics to your heart's content. But in an actual total war it makes a difference.

>>587086

>Define the target and the goal. Because by effective up to 1km all I mean is that you can suppress small groups of people with short bursts

You have dedicated machinegunners for that. Why waste weight and resources equipping every infantryman to be a machinegunner when they aren't trained to act as such? Especially at these 1km ranges of which you speak, even if we assume that every infantryman has enough training to be a machinegunner, and even if his gun is mechanically equipped to engage at 1000 yards, most grunts won't be able to shoot accurately enough at that distance to matter. Remember, to get an "expert" rating on the shooting range in the Army you only have to pull off 4 MoA or so.

>Define effective. 7.62x54mmR works reasonably well both in the PKM and the Dragunov.

And both the PKM and the Dragunov are specialized weapons, given to troops that are trained to act as automatic riflemen and DMs. They aren't standard-issue service rifles for an infantry squad, nor should they be.

>If you only use your army as a glorified police force in third world shitholes, then sure, you can waste all the money you want and you can strain your logistics to your heart's content

Having two rifle calibers isn't going to make your logistics chain spontaneously combust. And any logistics gain you net on the production side of things is negated by the fact that your "general purpose" ammo is going to be heavier than a SCHV cartridge, and the standard loadout will have a smaller number of rounds. Fewer shots means it takes less time for troops to run dry, so they have to be resupplied more often, which costs fuel and money.

>>587143

Art major engineering.

>>587193

Because they weigh like 50lbs man, most of that is head. They're a dying race, they even mass suicided for no fucking reason at one point.

The Vanir are the OG Badass Asgard, and they had all kinds of neat toys. A breaching team of four Vanir beat the fuck out of Atlantis and all the SG teams there.

Vid related, they are retardedly amazing.

Cased telescopic rounds with RDX based propellant.

>>587086

>Because by effective up to 1km all I mean is that you can suppress small groups of people with short bursts, or maybe damage unarmoured vehicles.

Alright, I thought you meant for point targets. Massed section fires would certainly make that possible however electro-optics are likely the more realistic approach there as opposed to using a bigger cartridge. Being able to use a sabot would also be good as it means the bullet only has to be designed for terminal and external ballistics, since the sabot handles the internal side of things in regards to obturation etc.

>And a more cautious enemy has to be less aggressive, therefore you have a better chance at dictating the flow of battle. E.g. it does matter if they always have to set up GPMGs on tripods to cover their movement.

I meant more along the lines of this:

http://defense-and-freedom.blogspot.com/2009/07/infantry-combat-ranges.html

<Let's assume you could detect and track them at let's say 700m. Why should you shoot them?

< That's almost a one-trick pony. You do it once, maybe do it a couple more times, but it wears down after a few days. The enemy adapts. He won't bring hot chow to forward units by walking openly any more. He would walk along concealed routes and crawl at times.

< The result? You get less information from observation because the very obvious and pressing effect of lethal fires has made the enemy generally much more careful, more secretive.

>Define effective. 7.62x54mmR works reasonably well both in the PKM and the Dragunov.

And at no point did the USSR nor its successors issue the SVD out as a general purpose weapon. It was designed and then issued for the purpose of extending the infantryman's range beyond the assault rifle. Those soldiers were specially trained for that role. Key word there is special, they were specialized soldiers issued a specialized weapon.

>But in an actual total war it makes a difference.

So you choose to cut down on having an extra cartridge? Do you understand fucking anything about engineering? I know you don't, you studied political science for fucks sake. Vehicle logistics is an absolute cluster fuck, far worse than running three cartridges at a section level. Why you GPC fucks don't kick up a fuss about having a billion different types of lubricants, filters, fittings etc. I'll never understand.

Since it's somehow related, do you think conventional small arms will eventually be obsolete in the military if body armor keeps evolving until it can stop and properly absorb the impact force of anything that doesn't completely fuck your shit up?

>>587385

Aren't they already obsolete and it's just a small thing to have as an emergency?

>>587385

Conventional as in chemical propellant? Possibly, but not anytime soon. Material science advances have allowed armor to make a comeback, and that might be the status quo for a little while, but it won't last. In the long run, offensive tech always progresses faster than defensive; entropy and a bunch of other shit dictates that it's always going to be easier to destroy something than to preserve it. The same advances that have allowed armor to advance I'd going to allow us to create hotter burning powders, stronger, higher pressure chambers, and more advanced bullets. You can already see this definitively on the vehicular scale, whether it's ASMs, ATGMs, or MANPADS. This tech hasn't made armor completely obsolete, but it does serve to emphasize using speed as your defense rather than relying on armor.

>>587373

>Vehicle logistics is an absolute cluster fuck, far worse than running three cartridges at a section level.

So burdening down infantry logistics will ease the problem with vehicles? Or what are you arguing for? If an unit is running low of ammo, fuel and food, then it will break rather quickly. If it runs low of filters and lubricants, then their mobility will be compromised on the long run. One of these problems needs immediate remedy, the other one can wait a few days if worst comes to worst. Guess which one is which.

>Do you understand fucking anything about engineering?

I will be honest, I don't understand this question. If you want to test my knowledge of engineering, then ask relevant questions. But even so, this is a question of logistics and firefights, even if engineering plays a role in it.

>I know you don't, you studied political science for fucks sake

Prove that I'm not a 50 years old Chilean petrochemical engineer working on general purpose lubricants, who just happens to be posting from a Hungarian VPN. Flags are kind of a mistake for such small and slow boards.

You can't just up and make a gun like that. You have to decide what role it's supposed to fill and what deficiency existing weapons have that it would correct. Are you looking for a sniper rifle, a shotgun, or something else? One thing I think needs some work is that existing DMRs are too damn heavy. There's a need for a much lighter DMR, and /k/ should be able to help with this. Shotgun specialty shells are another potential area of interest.

>>587393

So you pretty much want this? https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/07/09/soviet-experimental-6mm-sniper-rifle-tkb-0145s/

>>592693

Yes, that's it! I somehow forgot about that weapon, but indeed, it's pretty close baed on what little information is out there. Although the cartridge is still not up to snuff.

>>592694

You'd need wadding of somesort as well as a backstop for it.

The future is urban warfare. It requires a small rifle that can be supressed, hold at least 30 rounds and has a caliber strong enough to punk through most vests.

is it doable /k/?

>>592762

VSS or anything in 9x39

>>587019

>Let's combine a shotgun and grenade launcher into one package

>What is AA12?

>>592762

You're just describeing smgs dumbass

>>592694

I'm working on it. The biggest limitation is getting enough oxygen. My current design uses an under-barrel bike pump to keep the combustion chamber small.

There may also be a lower velocity ceiling compared to gunpowder, but I'm pretty confident that it can hit normal rifle speeds.

>>587022

How would that realistic work?

The U.S. military already has the fearsome triad: 5.56x45; 7.62x51; and 300 Win Mag. This new design would have to perform the tasks of all of these cartridges.

>>592762

Also if the lower reciever easily seperated from the upper reciever by removing a couple of pins, allowing for quick changes between barrel lengths and even calibers. Something along the lines of the Stoner/Sullivan/Fremont pattern.

>>592762

>>592922

H&K 416 w/14.5 inch barrel. Basically a piston-driven M4.

While not anything revolutionary I have been thinking about a modernised STEN lately, direct blowback 9mm firing from a closed bolt made as cheap as possible while capable of a 6 inch group @ 100m.

Through modern casting and stamping methods I think such a thing could be mass produced extremely cheaply and be a worth while development for any nation to keep up their sleeve if SHTF.

>>592815

>punch through vests

>smg

I think you mean PDW there boss.

The idea of a magazine-fed revolver is something I can't let go of. Forget the trounds, but in theory it would work well with polymer-cased ammo, because that has to be supported from all sides. And with the limited space it's better to make it as long and thin as possible. Also, the chamber would be directly on top of the magazine, therefore you could shorten the barrel that much. Of course, the problem of loading is still there, so either you'd have to make a detachable magazine that has no feed-lips but still retains the cartridges (like the Madsen or the Johnson lmg); or go retro-futuristic with stripper clips.

>>593079

Or have a magazine that uses a lever to hold cartridges in the magazine until the lever is released through insertion, like the Farquhar Hill.

>>593079

I think the whole "tround" thing would have caught on if it was just a piece of plastic you placed a standard round into, they fucked up by going proprietary.

>>593064

u rite, my b.

>>593088

That's exactly what the Madsen and the Johnson use.

>>593089

The idea was that this would be lighter and better at utilizing space. If you stuck a normal cartridge into a triangular piece of plastic, then you make it heavier and bulkier. Although maybe they should have tried to make it fire competely unmodified .38 special. But then the whole point of this pistol was to sell the idea of the tround, so that would have been detrimental to their goals.

Honestly, I'd like to see if you could make such an open chamber magazine-fed revolver work with something like 10mm Auto. Yes, you'd have problems with sealing the chamber, and it offers nothing over a semi-auto pistol, but it would work as a proof-of-concept, and it would be perfect to see if it's even possible to solve all the issues with this design.

>>587022

But what does the little button on the side do?

>>587014

>9x39mm

strange round.

how does a 9mm round that doesn't break 1,000 fps penetrate body armor?

>>587011

salt railguns?

>>593059

Just modernise the owens gun. The STEN is a cheap pos for a reason, also there is a closed bolt modifiaction to appease the ATF.

>>593187

Its the core. Ain't basic lead.

>>593205

I assume civilians won't get the AP core?

>>593215

>>593215

We're getting standard training leadcore stuff from wolf

>>587011

>Let's try, at least humor it for a brief moment to see if it's still possible for the absolute fuck of it.

Okay, but only because you have dubs.

The device is a bullpup pistol sidearm with integral silencer. The chamber is 30 mm in caliber. The integral silencer guarantees that the slug is thrown with no sonic boom.

The purpose is to produce a large wound channel that will be fatal with even one hit. The silencer is there to guarantee that this can be used inside sealed vehicles and tight corridors without deafening the user.

>>592900

I was actualy assuming the Hungarian meant a system where you would have a drum or box mag with an ammo belt inside wich you could load as fast and easy as a normal magazine.

>>593105

Why not just make a revolver where the cylinder operates like a normal magazine? Instead of having to painstakingly reload each round into the cylinder when they're used up, or even using a speedloader, you can just swap the old cylinder out for a fully loaded one. I don't think the idea of trounds is necessarily a bad one, either. I remember there was some revolver in Deus Ex that uses trounds, and it looked from the design like the whole cylinder was made of trounds, like it was just a pack of ammo arranged in a certain way that held it together. Why not make it a revolving rifle as long as you're going overboard with revolver stuff?

>>593368

Indeed, although lately I'm thinking about ammo backpacks quite a lot, but that too would work with this system.

>>593393

The point is not to make a better revolver, but a pistol that uses polymer-cased ammunition. It just seems stupid to switch to polymer cases for long arms, yet keep metallic cartridges for pistols. Of course it's not likely that the switch will happen anytime soon, but I like distract myself by speculating about similar things. With that said, this video has a few interesting bits, one of them is that an expert recommended fixing the pistol by using some of the gases to rotate the cylinder. And if you think about it, an annular gas piston would work quite well in a pistol. Also, after playing around with some drawings, it dawned upon me that this cylinder really needs trounds to work.

>>593404

>It just seems stupid to switch to polymer cases for long arms, yet keep metallic cartridges for pistols.

Pistols see very little use, furthermore the weight savings are minimal in the case of a pistol since very little ammunition is carried relative to a rifle/MG. It would also require a shift away from muh Browning tilting barrel.

Also see: >>588981

>>593404

Have been thinking of a CT pistol myself, tough i have yet to come up that isn't a scaled down Steyr ACR or some wierd fallout 1-2 10mm pistol style mag fed revolver.

>>593447

I know that pistols aren't even second but third line weapons, and they should be issued to pencil pushers and law enforcement. But still, that doesn't mean that we should just forget about them.

Also, that report is from 1996, and deals with the issue that the various laboratories of the US government couldn't produce a working heavy machine gun or autocannon that used cased telescopic ammo. One of their goals was to reach ~1500m/s muzzle velocity with those weapons, so it's a bit outside of the area of small arms. There is LSAT after all, a program that produced working ammunition and weapons. They might be not perfect, but they are already here.

>>593467

Yes, if the chamber slides downward then you have to three choices:

>the chamber slides into the grip

Now the ammunition can't be longer than half the grip, as the other half is taken up by the chamber. Pistol ammo is already short and fat, so you might have to make it even shorter and fatter.

>the chamber slides behind the grip

You either have to make the pistol rather long at the back (essentially make some kind of a nearly bullpup abomination); or make it slide backwards in an angle. In either case, it would have to eject backwards, so you'd most likely have to put some kind of an ejection device behind the chamber to redirect the spent casing.

>the chamber slider forward the grip

This might work, as it take away space from the barrel, but that is true for traditional pistol too. After all, the chamber is forward of the grip in them too. You'd just have to use a lever or something to make the ammunition go forward into the chamber. It will also eject forward, so one less problem.

Now, the last one might work, but it isn't that much an improvement in my opinion. As I said, if you use trounds with a rotating chamber over the grip, then you can both utilize the full length of the grip for the cartridge, and also make the pistol shorter with the same barrel length, as the chamber is more backwards than in a traditional or moving chamber pistol. And it ejects to the side.

>>593488

Hadn't considered that first option actually, generally with the third for simplicity. I did figure out the ejection on the second option wich is a type of hatch-like ejector/dust cover that ejects the casings out the side, wich i tend to use on most of my CT designs tough i dislike this backward feed on a pistol. I also jet to figure out a slide catch on backward feed systems, from as far as i can see it might be impossible without making the gun overcomplicated.

>>593274

then we don't get the benefit of the round

>>593501

Nothing stopping you from not lathing a not brass bullet.

>>587011

My vote is for rockets for drones. Drones could easily hold rockets fully capable of taking out a large mammal, useful for hunting, of course, and even automatically (did you know drones can perform facial recognition, and it's not cpu intensive?) Bonus, make the rockets smart (ie laser guided or otherwise directed)

So the "gun" would be a drone launcher (using propellant and a temporary "flight" stage, wings jettisoned, air braking by achieving a near right angle to the surface, "up" oriented away from momentum, the "shot" (the drone) achieving hover, then as designated by the drone launcher operator perform duties (either fpv-slave mode, or automated strategies, FOF being improbable of such systems, expect them as deactivatable area denial devices. Termination of area denial duties shall result in ecrypted confirmation code being broadcast by the "shot" (the drone)). Obviously, many hundreds can be launched by a single drone launcher operator. Control can be ceded, acquired from others, from/by the drone launcher operator.

A smaller model shall contain only a small number of drones, or more inferior ones, to replace the standard grenade.

In many fire fights, the larger drone launcher shall prove a worthy successor of rifles.

>>593507

Other than a lathe.

>>593530

>my vote

With a flag like that?

>>593534

That there flag is what you call a "VPN".

>>593557

but I know that he was an agent, not wanting us to progress in our technology

Nuclear AT-4, like a baby davy crocket.

How about a pepperbox revolver with self-contained cartridges? By self-contained cartridges I mean stuff that doesn't need a barrel to work, and so the revolver doesn't have barrels to begin with, just short chambers to hold the cartridges. A few ideas for what it could shoot:

>sealed cartridge

The Russians have those cartridges in which a piston drives out the bullet, and so no gases escape from it. You can read more about them here:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/russian-silent-ammunition/

>breaching cartridge

You don't need that much energy to destroy a typical lock, and it looks like even a shotgun without a barrel would have more than enough energy for that. And there is even a 7.62mm NATO breeching bullet now. Therefore I think you could make one for this weapon too.

>nonlethat cartridges

Gas, rubber, flashbang (?), whatever you want. These don't need too much energy if you want to use them close and personal, and so you could load them into self-contained cartridges.

I imagine a rather small five shot pepperbox revolver that is designed to use moonclips and has a detachable stock. You could use the sealed and nonlethal cartridges without the stock and put it on if you want to use it for breaching.

>>593714

Also, you could base the cartridges on .410 shotgun shells with steel walls. You are free to vary their length as much as you want, and it could give access to a variety of commerical cartridges.

>>593704

Why is there a huge blank space on the left wall? Can I come around from the other side and shoot through the wall? But anyway, we need a whole thread full of tactical scenarios like this, as well as invasion plans, defense plans, and other things of a more strategic bent.

>>593714

>a gun with no barrels

At that point you should just get a pike because it'll have longer range.

>>593718

Did you stop reading after the first two sentences? It's supposed to fire cartridges that are used in situations where a pike would be way too long. Have you ever tried to to destroy the lock of a door with a pike while being indoors?

>>593719

We already have shotguns for breaching. There's no need for anything else. A new type of gun should either combine several functions that you couldn't get all in one weapon with currently existing guns, or it should perform a single function substantially better than currently existing guns.

>>593731

Blue section should be "trigger for the laser sight" The thing that allowed the gun to be carried cocked is a little tab (on the other side?).

>>593731

Shotguns can already perform all of those functions just by loading different rounds in them, and they perform much better in a firefight.

>>587020

>i still want rocket ammunition for shotguns for long range shooting. i am sure this is doable and would function without any problems

From what I understand the technical problems with gyrojets was the inconsistency of powder burn combined with fairly high twist from the nozzles. The twist could be replaced with fin stabilization, but powder consistency might be more of an issue.

>>593734

Well, you could use a .410 revolver from Taurus for this, but then you'd be limited by the length of the cylinder, and the whole thing would be unnecessarily heavy. Also, who the hell uses shotguns in firefights any more? They are only used for breaching.

>>587011

>>make a new gun

Shouldn't you start with the new kind of projectile it'll be firing?

>>593738

>Also, who the hell uses shotguns in firefights any more?

People defending their homes against fine urban youths who were going to church and trying to get their lives straightened out, and are certainly not of any particular color.

>>593735

I wish you could fire RPGs out of a shotgun like a rifle grenade.

>>593744

I was just being cheeky. Realistically one guy in a fire team will have a shotgun for breaching, but if you get in a firefight you're going to fight with whatever you've got. The actual advantages of a shotgun are mostly wrapped up in specialty rounds, many of which would be very difficult to use or would lose a great deal of effectiveness without a barrel. Slugs are probably the most common example, since a slug allows you to duplicate some of the functions of a rifle with a shotgun and give wicked armor penetration that only the heaviest rifle rounds can match, which is something your sidearm will never be able to do. Another, less common example is a Dragon's Breath round, though that's never actually been deployed in battle yet.

Something inbetween machine gun and assault rifle?

Perhaps an emergency grenade launcher…

>>593718

>Why is there a huge blank space on the left wall?

Because I'm lazy.

>we need a whole thread full of tactical scenarios like this

Alright >>593833

>>587022

Why would you want all subsequent shots to go to the same location? What if you miss the first time?

>>593755

That's the M2 carbine.

>>593756

That's both the M1 and the M2 carbines. They can be used to launch rifle grenades, but they can't really handle the stress, and so this function is only for emergencies.

>>592777

>>587019

Great, make an improves AA-12 in some sort of 30mm grenade chambering.

>>593756

>emergency grenade launcher

Something like this with a HE round instead of the smoke/incendiary mixture maybe?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handflammpatrone

My wet dream is a my portable rifle capable of first round hits out to 5k. I want to do pest control with it.

My understanding is that the biggest obstacle to long-range hits isn't bullet drop but rather when the bullet slows below supersonic speeds and is pushed around by its own supersonic shock wave. So a heavy enough bullet with a good blistic coefficient should have enough inertia to maintain supersonic flight at extremely distance right?

Note this doesn't need to be combat effective as I just want to clear an entire valley of deer/goats with out moving.

And because this is an concept thread I don't see why we can't do retarded things like use solid gold bullets to get the weight up.

What about a 14.5x114 necked down to 7mm with a long solid gold bullet.

>>594630

Yeah but I don't think it would need to be that absurd. And the bullet needs to be bigger at least 6.5 because I want a red deer to drop

>>594750

That is concerning I agree. Im hoping that with a slowburning powder and absurdly long barrel I can get the velocity and that with a bullet with a high enough BC it will keep it velocity without needing to be too heavy

>>587011

Controversial opinion: we won't see many paradigm changes in how weapons are defined - assault rifles will still exist, as will SMGs, and DMRs, and the like. But someone is going to figure out that you can make firearms vastly more efficient with electronics. Sure, your gun will need a battery to work, which means you don't want to give it to guys that will be out in the field for weeks on end, but in an urban environment it could work. Reliability issues? Don't use chinesium. Why use gas operation when you can have servos or pistons scoop up the next round and shove it into the chamber? Build it well, and you'll never have a jam again. Really, being able to push and pull bits wherever you want has some seriously interesting implications for firearm design - why not a revolver-style cylinder, where a piston pushes a round into the cylinder from the mag, the cylinder rotates into position (while another round is loaded), the gun fires, and the cylinder immediately turns again, and another piston pushes the shell out? All the timing could be handled electronically, your rate of fire limited only by how fast you can make your pistons go so that they can cycle new rounds. There are all kinds of batshit designs.

And, of course, caseless. Electrical ignition systems for caseless ammo makes me hard. Embed related.

>>594764

Have you thought about updating the Volcanic pistols 'rocket ball' principle? That has the advantage of doing a lot of the accelerating a decent distance from you

>>594785

Don't you mean something more like a gyrojet? I thought Volcanic ammunition burnt all its powder in the firearm as there is nozzle to concentrate the combustion once it has left the barrel?

>>594788

Revolving autocannons get me so fucking hard.

>>587011

We need extra heavy fire support. It is a heavier heavy machine gun so big it is given it's own legs to walk while being held or else the user is required to have an exosuit just to carry it. Two kinds of the gun:

>hole puncher

Belts of 15 or 20mm fully automatic fire at the infantry level. Basically a real heavy bolter from 40k.

>The battlefield is mine

it fires 5 or 6mm, but it has at least 12 barrels and BRRRRRRT so much that your enemies WIll take cover or else be mulched.

>>594788

How does the gas seal between the cylinder and the barrel, if any, work?

>>594788

That's rad. Now do it with electronics. The real issue is that nobody is considering the batshit crazy things that you could do if you weren't limited to using gas or recoil. That's how you're going to get new, interesting paradigms in small arms design.

>>>>/reddit/

gas you'reself

>>587014

>2000 m/s

You mean 280m/s? Its whole shtick is being a subsonic round that packs a punch.

>>594771

>>594872

>replacing a single gas piston with half a dozen electric motors for no good reason

>>>/reddit/

>>594897

>for no good reason

Quick, precise timing with virtually no variation isn't a good enough reason? I'm just tossing one shitty idea out there, I'm sure an actual engineer could come up with something vastly better.

>>594813

My bad, thanks for the correction. Although you could, presumably, design a large enough rocket ball that would burn most of its fuel outside of the barrel. If you're going that far though then you probably might as well try to build a SACLOS anti-deer missile, to match your 'first shot hit' requirement.

>>594902

What if you had just one electric motor which locked and unlocked the bolt, letting blowback forces actually bring it backwards? Might simplify manufacturing.

It's not a gun, but would it be efficient to 3D print caseless cartidges right inside the magazine? There's a spot in the machine where you insert primers- it will stack them as it builds. I've heard metal (to an extent) is/might be 3D printable now but even plastic that doesn't go molten could be good enough for cheap firepower in QC.

>>593530

>A smaller model shall contain only a small number of drones, or more inferior ones, to replace the standard grenade.

>In many fire fights, the larger drone launcher shall prove a worthy successor of rifles.

are you high? that sound stupdly expensive

>>596673

If you could get the cost low enough then you could, potentially cross the line where the one drone is cheaper than the few thousand rounds it takes to score a kill with modern small arms. You'd need to find some way for infantry to work without suppression though, which would be interesting, but he could just be retarded rather than high.

>>596897

Heard those counter balance systems don't realy work with anything much more powerful then 5.56mm

Make a gun that effectively kills anyone who isn't racially or genetically pure enough.especially amerimutts.

>>596924

I think in a hundred years or less they could actually make a bioweapon or nanobots that could do that. Put em in a capsule and fire em out a paintball gun i guess.

>>593748

>wicked armor penetration

what kinda slugs you been using?

you're more likely to kil the guy w blunt trauma and spalling than you are penetrating his lv3 vest

Just had an idea. So the problem limiting caseless rounds is cookoff in a hot chamber, right? Why not make the chamber part of the magazine? Revolvers deal with cylinder gap so whatever gap tolerances put between the chamber and the barrel shouldn't be a huge deal. Not sure how this would be set up, could the chamber take the form of a sort of nub that stuck off the front of the magazine. Bolt goes forward, strips of cartridge into chamber nub, fires and cycles? Or maybe a quick-change chamber system like how some machineguns have quick-change barrels.

We need to totally re-think semi-automatic firearms:

1. Increase durability by replacing springs and other chintzy little metal trinkets with big, beefy components like gears. Make them from something lightweight but strong (glass-reinforced polymers) to offset the increased size.

2. Replace spring-feeding magazines with something more positive and less prone to failure.

3. Accomplish all this without compromising on capacity, reliability, or size; likely, workmanship (or at least quality control) would have to improve dramatically.

4. Put a lot of R&D into ammunition. Specifically, design completely new purpose-built cartridges from the ground up in order to increase effectiveness, decrease size/weight, make them more reliable, etc.

I don't know exactly HOW to accomplish any of this, but maybe some of these will get people thinking.

>>594902

Not using the recoil would be a huge waste of energy. The better option is to transform the mechanical energy of the recoil into potential energy of some sort and electronically control its use. Dunno if that's what you were getting at or not, but that's a sensible idea.

>>606698

>Why not make the chamber part of the magazine?

You mean like the gun type you mention at the start of your very next sentence?

>Revolvers deal with cylinder gap so…

>Revolvers

>>606704

I've been thinking about all this for a while and come to the conclusion that an autorevolving flechette rifle would fix all the problems you named. Needler rounds are so diminutive that using a revolver cylinder is much less of a disadvantage in ammo capacity, but we need to design a much better flechette to avoid losing accuracy, especially when firing at very long ranges. Then again I just love revolver aesthetics and I find it fun to try to make them work in any weapons system possible.

>Increase durability by replacing springs and other chintzy little metal trinkets with big, beefy components like gears. Make them from something lightweight but strong (glass-reinforced polymers) to offset the increased size.

This has been a serious need for a while now. I'd be open to suggestions on how to go about it.

>>606713

Here's a randomly fired neuron's output after reading your post:

an echo-trigger-revolver.

It would require two barrels, and two rows of inlets in the cylinder, and a double hammer going 'tick, tock' firing each way, presumably on resetting of the trigger for the second round. Because of the increased size of the cylinder it would lend itself to smaller calibers, so intended use would be bringing .22lr back into vogue as a PDW / CCW thing…you can dump 20 rounds into your attacker's face, giving you more time to turn and run without needing to deafen yourself or break your wrist.

>>606713

I honestly had revolvers in mind when thinking about this, but I didn't really want to mention it because of the "lol @ ur outdated technology" it would inevitably bring up.

My ideal handgun right now would be a large-frame revolver with a 9-round cylinder chambered in some new 30 caliber cartridge designed from the ground up to be small and high-pressure (like a mini 9mm.) All the internal clockwork would be made from well-hardened steel or tungsten, would have very strict quality control standards, and would be as large as physically possible while staying within a reasonably-sized gun. All the parts that don't need to be metal would be glass-reinforced nylon.

Further innovation would be necessary, but that's sort of my starting point based on what manufacturers could be doing right now.

>>606713

The problem I see with flechettes is not necessarily accuracy, but "stopping power." I'll admit that I don't know much about them, but it seems to me that creating a large wound channel is the key to incapacitation (whether by projectile diameter, projectile expansion, or hydrostatic shock.)

>>606723

Suppose the flechette had an extremely flat arrowhead-type shape. Would that give the flechette enough power?

>>606731

Well, let's do some quick and dirty math here:

Let's assume that a permanent wound channel caused by a projectile is a cylinder (the projectile punches a hole straight into the target.)

The formula for the volume of the wound would therefore be π x r^2 x penetration depth.

Given that the FBI's recommendation for penetration is 12-18 inches (let's say 12) and the diameter of a 9mm projectile is 0.355" (we'll pretend we're using non-expanding ammo), that gives a permanent wound cavity of 4.75 cubic inches.

I wouldn't trust any projectile to incapacitate a person unless its wound cavity was at LEAST 7 or 8 cubic inches. Hydrostatic shock can add a extra couple cubic inches, but only if the round is moving fast enough (2000+ fps). So it's really hard to say without knowing the size, shape, penetration, and velocity of the projectile.

>>606741

You might consider having the flechette spin when it impacts a target, but it might not be possible to do that without spinning it on its way to a target, and that's going to seriously impact accuracy with a flat projectile. I'd stick with the rectangular wound channel. It's good enough to do the job while offering many new features due to the different projectile.

1. Put R&D on finding a better propellant in order to use less powder and shorter cartridges.

2. Create the following cartridge:

- 28 caliber Underwood Xtreme Defense-shaped projectile

- projectile should be about 125 grains

- case bottlenecked from 32 caliber

- configure the powder charge to burn slowly and steadily, such that you get a linear increase in velocity from a 2" barreled gun to a 16" barreled gun

- velocity from a 16" barrel should be 3000 fps (yielding an energy of about 2500 ft. lbs.) while from a 2" barrel it should be at least 1200 fps (400 ft. lbs)

- make the case of the cartridge short enough to fit in a pistol grip

3. You now have a pistol-sized cartridge that can be fired in anything from a small, concealable handgun to a 16" carbine

- from a small handgun, it will cause wound channels similar to a modestly-well-performing hollowpoint, as well as penetration that meets the FBI's standards without seriously endangering those beyond the intended target

- from a full-sized duty handgun, it will cause huge wound channels while being able to penetrate barriers well

- from a carbine, it will be absolutely devastating to humans and would be pretty good against medium game

>>606941

>125gr bullet

>3000fps from 16" barrel

>pistol-sized parent cartridge

>>606965

Buffalo Bore has a 125 grain .357 mag load that does almost 2300 fps from an 18.5" barrel and does 1476 from a 3" barrel. I realize that's not 3000 from a 16" barrel, but consider:

1. 357 mag cases are mostly empty - if they were made a little thicker, they could withstand significantly higher pressures and be loaded with more powder and still be made much shorter.

2. These Buffalo Bore loads were made for handguns - I'm just speculating here, but I think they could have biased it more toward the slower-burning end of the spectrum to get higher velocity from the longer barrel at the cost of lower velocity from the shorter one.

3. The first thing I mentioned was to put money into finding a better propellant to shorten cartridges without decreasing power.

So, yeah, that's the goal, and I don't think it's all that unrealistic.

>>606973

>thicker cases can withstand higher pressure

Thanks for playing Mr. Troll.

But for those not trolling, let's explain a few things. It has been well known with handgun cartridges especially that the same powders that will optimize handgun performance will also be the best powder for optimal rifle length barrels, the truth is it is more important to optimize for the CASE rather than the barrel. Slower burning powders have been tried in longer barrels, but the powder burn dynamics in the CASE are far more important than the barrel, and these slower powders don't give any extra performance, just blast and other problems.

Turning a cartridge into a bottleneck with the same pressure is guarnateed to lose power. Refrence, 375 H&H, 8mm Remington Magnum, 300 H&H and 7mm STW. At some point the larger mouth diameter is more efficient with the cartridge due to many dynamics. 35 Whelen, 8mm-06, 30-06, 25-06, you see similar issues. Necking down 357 Magnum cases will lead to a loss of performance already.

Also, let us consider that bullet resistance in barrel is important, a 125 grain .357 bullet is much shorter than a 125 grain 8mm bullet, which is shorter than a .30 of the same weight, than a 7mm 125, or a 6.5mm 125 grain. The way the longer bullets contact and interact with the barrel has an effect, and this also makes a difference in powder burn dynamics.

Better propellant? Like they aren't trying, or that extra funding money is magic and brings about automatic success? Truth is they try, and the proof that more improvement isn't coming anytime soon (perhaps ever) is the fact some of the best powders today are old ones. Bullseye and Unique are form the late 1890's and are still some of the best pistol powders today, despite new "improvements' to topple them. How old are the classic IMR rifle powders? Certainly there was a rifle powder change after WW2 that made the sub 30 caliber rifles far better, but since then nothing to really change things much, much less a revolution you seek.

So, yes, very unrealistic.

>>587014

This thread is about innovation, not Mary-sue guns.

I think we should go back to experimenting with multiple shots in one recoil burst. The AN-94 and G11 and such work but are logistically impractical, to say the least, and have some upfront issues. I definitely believe that with a bit more development time a practical and efficient method would come to fruition.

>>607002

Would it really achieve a significant benefit over already existing fringe alternatives like the Kalashnikov balanced recoil or the constant recoil system employed in the ultimax?

>>607002

I think the way forward is the opposite: slow down the RoF so much that with some practice you can get the rhythm and make every shot aimed. Imagine a rifle that has all the recoil reduction of the FG-42 applied and has an adjustable RoF that can go down to 240 or even 120 rounds/minute with a mechanism like this:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/japanese-model-ii-type-a/

>A unique feature of this and other early Japanese SMG designs is the use of an adjustable buffer assembly. As the bolt flies backwards after firing, it is caught by a piston connected to a compressed-air buffer in the rear of the receiver. As the bolt pushes backwards, air in the buffer can only escape through a small valve, which has multiple different sized holes which the shooter can select from. This allows the bolt velocity to be controlled, thus giving the shooter control over the gun’s rate of fire. Our reference book says the rate can be 500 or 600 rpm, but the original report says the buffer has five different holes to select from.

The weapon should fire a very flat-shooting cartridge, like the 6mm United:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/08/21/modern-intermediate-full-power-calibers-019-russian-6x49mm-unified/

>>606985

How does a squeeze bore design change the dynamics? I'm thinking about a 9mm bullet and a barrel that has no rifling in the first third of its length, then the next third is the section that tapers down to somewhere between 6-7mm, then finally a rifled section. But you could replace it with a "simple" 9mm barrel that is integrally suppressed.

>>595125

Well the problem for bullets is what metal is 3D printed. If it's too soft it won't engage rifling, too hard and it fucks up the barrel. Neither is a big problem for liberator type stuff that won't see more than a few uses though.

>>607030

>I think the way forward is the opposite: slow down the RoF so much that with some practice you can get the rhythm and make every shot aimed.

Why not just use semi automatic fire?

>I'm thinking about a 9mm bullet and a barrel that has no rifling in the first third of its length, then the next third is the section that tapers down to somewhere between 6-7mm, then finally a rifled section.

<freebore

>>587147

>nigger tier music

>nigger tier editing style

Absolute garbage webm.

>>607030

6mm United burns barrels like a motherfucker, as your article states. The answer is 7.92x41 CETME, always.

>>607042

>Why not just use semi automatic fire?

Because it's still faster if you don't have to pull the trigger, and the enemy is a lot less euthanistic to stick their head from behind his cover if 2-4 bullets hit it every few seconds.

<freebore

What about that?

>>607046

PKM barrels are cheap and disposalbe, of course it burns through them. And even modern barrels are made of lower quality steel compared to what we can make today.

>>607046

>7.92x41 CETME

I don't think the mostly aluminum construction performed up to standards.

>>587014

>9x39mm shooting at over 2km per second

Defeats the whole purpose of that round.

how about a caseless gun:

>container filled with gunpowder

>hopper filled with bullets

>loading operation fills a cylinder with powder, compacts it, fits a bullet in chamber, then places cylinder behind bullet

>fired by electric spark, research piezoelectric crystals to avoid batteries

>blowback or gas impingement recycles the next cylinder, no case ejection needed

Why don't we bring volcanic-style cartridges back? A large copper bullets with a hollow core, primer goes at the front of the hollow toward the tip of the bullets, compressed pellet of powder is then placed in. Firing pin would be of a needle-fire type (extra long) to reach up through the pellet of powder to hit the primer. Bullet fires out the barrel taking everything but (hopefully minimal) powder residue with it. The reason for having the primer seated up front instead of in the back is because if the primer were in the back it would likely be blown out of the bullet upon firing leaving it as debris in the barrel and stopping the function of the gun. Alternatively, a new chemical priming source could be developed so you have a double layer of powder pellet with the primer pellet at the back end that is then ignited. The copper walls of the projectile would provide mass to carry heat with it to help prevent cook-off as well as adding to the weight of the projectile and increasing its terminal performance.

I think I'll work on prototyping this. I should be able to drill much of the center of a .50 BMG projectile out which would leave a decently sized cavity for powder and would be wide enough to press a small rifle primer into it. I'll work on the percussion version first.

>>614304

Check out gyrojets anon, they seem like a similar technology.

>>614296

>>614301

This guy's done it, and he documented it.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/lorgir_pistol/lorgir_pistol.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXiIqh0DwQ&feature=youtu.be

>>614374

It even looks like an alien blaster! This is clearly the design of the future