/k/ - Weapons

>>547895

> Especially with the news of that Russian Su-25 getting shot down by towelheads in Syria just recently

I have one thing for that; Maskirovka.

Second, maybe they just want one engine to deal with rather than a twin engine design.

>>547898

>Maskirovka

Would make sense like, apparently it was shot down with a MANPAD. Can't really see all to many towelheads with Stingers, let alone being able to hit a Su-25 that probably has flares or at least the ability to perform evasive manners to gtfo from the combat area

>>547901

It can also shrug off MANPADS pretty easily, it did so alot in Georgia and Afghanistan

>>547902

Huh, well apparently the group that shot down the Su-25, HTS, recently intercepted and aquired a shipment of MANPADs, most likely either Iglas or Strelas, so I guess that's an explanation for the MANPAD part.

Either way it seems strange to lose a Grach to a MANPAD, especially when they carry flare and dipole chaff dispensers. Could be maskirovka, could just be shitty conscripts in 70's tech with piss-poor modernisation programmes.

What about OV-10A Bronco

Its a good idea but it will be shit if either Tucano or AT6 are selected, they are shit platforms.

A twin engine similar to Mosquito or Lightning would be far superior. Bronco was upgraded recently, why isnt that in competition?

>Su-26

Has chaff, flares, armor and 2 engines. If it was brought down by a manpad it must either be a freak lucky hit, or a scared pilot ejecting from a functional (but damaged) aircraft.

>>547895

>Especially with the news of that Russian Su-25 getting shot down by towelheads in Syria

There's a great gap between getting shot and getting shot down.

>one Su-25 is hit by a MANPAD missile, not even confirmed that the hit shot it down

>"hurr turboprops r shit usaf is cucked"

>>547906

>>547912

Boeing opted out apparently.

>>547946

Oh well. It says on Kikepedia that Indonesia and Philippines which have Broncos are replacing them with A-29s anyway.

>>547901

>>547902

>>547904

>>547912

I think you guys are forgetting that the SU 25 in question probably wasn't hit in the engine, perhaps HTS shot at it as it was running for an attack rather than pulling away after attacking. So I wouldn't call shenanigans.

>>547895

Such a shame a modernized T-37 of OV-10 wasn't proposed. Ah well.

>>547946

Likely because they know brass isnt serious about prop planes. Watch and see, order will be 50 planes and theyll all go to afghanistan or iraq for free.

>>547956

Pilot ejected and was shot and killed by akbars. What else is there to hit? All control surfaces are armored and multiple redundant.

Im sure it was shot down, CAS gets shot down more often than any other aircraft if they do their job properly, but it wasnt due to the design of the airplane. Freak hit or scared pilot are most likely options.

>>548007

>Ejecting above akbars

I'd rather crash the plane without surviving than risk getting my body paraded '93 Somalia style or even worse somehow surviving and being tortured by Mossad, I mean ISIS.

>Honestly, they should just give the CAS role to the US Army

I heard that Marine pilots have the best CAS reputation. AF are the worse.

>>548007

Why do we take ackbars' word for granted?

Is there Russian confirmation of the pilot missing?

>>548043

https://www.rt.com/news/417798-russian-jet-crashes-syria/

Not letting Mike Sparks head a committee to design real "Killerbees". Sad.

http://www.combatreform.org/killerbees2.htm

Something like Aeroprogress T-730 (https://i.imgur.com/8NXm1.jpg) with side by side seating (shout out to A-37), escape pod with integrated inflatoplane (https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/06/weekend-wings-20-inflatable-aircraft.html) and turret mounted cannon like BAE SABA (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread186160/pg1).

>>548045

>ackbaring even on the radio

Fucking hell.

>>548013

Pilot choosed to blow his head of with grenade, than being captured acording to injuries:

https://twitter.com/MrKyruer/status/959809366793875457

and emptied whole pistol magazine before it.

>>548053

>Read the tweets

>Pilot plane gets hit

>Makes sure plane crashes into a building to kill more Kebab

>Parachutes down and takes out pistol and starts to remove more Kebab.

>When out of ammo he takes out grenade and blows himself up

What's the bet he took some kebab with him with that grenade?

>>548013

It's Russians we're talking about, guy crashed the plane intentionaly on target, jumped out, emptied it's side arm ammo at the local diversity, then they rushed him he thew grenades (apparently Russian aircrew survival packs have grenades) and either voluntarily (or accidentally) killed himself in the process.

That's literally what the snackbars are saying with rare respect for the guy.

They're not saying he killed anyone but he at the very least gave them quite a fight to remember…

>>548062

>Snackbars witness a fiery inferno fall from the sky into a building a take out fellow jihadis to the screech of "CYKAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

>A figure rushes out screaming "BLYAAAAAAAAAAT!" as he takes shots at anyone nearby before pulling out grenades and diving into a crowd disappearing in a explosion of rage

>>548112

Even in death he still Removes Kebab.

>>547912

He ejected and got killed in firefight.

>>548124

What would be the benefit over normal attack helicopter? I mean other than being hit into engine guarantees that both machine and pilot will not survive.

>>548127

If it weren't a meme video game design it could be faster than the normal attack helicopter.

>>547912

The Su-25SM they have there have pretty basic CM wise, they don't have DRICM or anything fancy (even though it's pretty standard on all current Hinds) and they have to fly relatively low to find what they look for (only SM2/3 have targeting TV/FLIR channels and those aren't in syria for… reasons).

As said on another thread the Russian army isn't exactly convinced there is a need (or room) for close-in anti-vehicle plane (when they have Su-24M2 and now Su-34 as tactical bombers that seriously overlaps) and the full on modernization/replacement of the Su-25 got the axe.

That might be the last nail in the Su-25 coffin to be frank (that or the opposite, we'll see)…

>>547895

>surely turboprops with a capacity of like two JDAMs is nothing more than ZSU-fodder over an attack helicopter or light jet attacker?

>hitting anything with ZSU at 15000 ft.

>>548062

Given how these people treat POWs it's no wonder he'd rather go on a murder spree and frag himself.

>>547902

Su-25 is notoriously vulnerable to MANPADS damage due to design failure (fuel tanks mounted above and between engines and air intakes).

>>548112

>Dont forget Russians waited until akbars were gathered around the downed Su25 with film crews, celebrating their victory…. and a Su24 cluster bombed >50 of them.

Based.

>>548127

Also it cant transition from vertical to forward flight, the cowling prevents it.

>>548129

Su24 is getting the axe too, both it and Su25 are obsolete nothing wrong with design, its just old. The stocks Russia has on hand will be upgraded (ie sm3) and used up, but they arent being replaced by new builds, new construction is stopped. The next gen for Su24 and Su25 are Su30SM and Su-34.

Also watch for smaller jet, with reduced signature in sound and temperature regime, a shitload of electronic warfare, and likely based on S-52, S-55, I2000 etc. Depending on when T-50 becomes self sustainable, starting after that and continuing to 2050 expect the changes.

>>548139

There is no fuel tank between engines.

The one between intajes is protected by armor, fuselage, internal arc of intake, and external arc of intake. Thats 3 pieces of metal and an armor plate that frag would have to go through.

Also its the first tank used for balance issues, so its empty at the time of attack run.

Dont talk shit about Frogfu.

>>548060

He did

>>548181

Im willing to agree to disagree on the position why cut off the 40s? but the fact that its armored and well protected is undeniable. Otherwise this >>547902 would be an explosion.

>>548060

>>548183

what a boss

>>548183

>0:12

In my mind that's the Slav pilot charging towards them

>>548195

I love the Su24 guidance for bombs. Its the same as other bomb sights, but ut couples with a GPS which other sights dont. Its really a great airplane, just ugly and old.

>>548195

>The fuel is obviously in the central body (just like on the A-10)

A-10 engines are higher, above and with stand off against fuel tanks for maximum prevention of fuel leakage into engines and intakes from damaged tanks. Really well thought design. Fuel been above and neighboring air intake channels and engines themselves is standard achilles heel of jets and slavs were dumb enough to retain this "feature" for strike aircraft. (this is understandable as slavs were never good with survivability design, for them it ends with mumbling "muh armor", internals of their vehicles are high explosive mix of fuel, ammo and other high combustible materials like titanium. Nothing explodes in more spectacular way than slavs vehicles)

>>548195

>And A-10s also regularly go down when they're not opposed by literal goat herders).

>regularly

>only 6 total combat losses

>>548013

I've heard from a former Force Recon commander that the exact opposite is true of the branches….he was in Fallujah

>>548262

Even broken clock is right twice a day.

https://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora/object/uuid:35d6e52b-9620-47d2-917a-952487951787/datastream/OBJ/download

>UAV visual signature suppression via adaptive materials

>>548230

>only 6 total combat losses

That's how many you lost in 1991 yes… you do know you've fought quite a bit since then?

You do know that the USAF doesn't count them as "shot down" if they somehow manage to limp and crash land outside the target area, even if the plane is totaled and the pilot killed?

>>548049

go back to spamming youtube comments, Mike

>>548183

Anyone notice how here and in the twitter feed videos 80% of these goatfuckers are wearing multicam and kryptek? Fuckin IFF must be a pain in the dick nowadays.

Also one pilot with handgun making 30+ akbars with long guns hit the dirt / run = Based af. Tbh they’re the Ferguson urban citizens of the east

>>548262

Just make it out of clear water balloons and you get camo and armor in one. :^)

>>548280

Like how everyone doesn't class a Tank as knocked out these days even though it got fire, the crew had to bail out and it had to return back home to be either repaired or scrapped for spare parts?

>>548227

>urrrr armor is irrelevant because i cant counter their argument

lol

Also A10 is inspired by Il2, and its to be replaced with F35A. What does Sweden run for CAS?

Dont talk shit, you will get hit.

>>548262

In WWII someone made an airplane out of cellophane, which worked really well. Only the struts and pilot were visible. But exposure to UV made the cellophane turn an opaque brown.

Making a see through, or at least well camouflaged, airplane means.being able to avoid radar in TERCOM without being picked up visually.

>>548195

>The axe might come much sooner for the Su-25 than for the 24 despite the 24 being older.

Which is kinda unfair since Su-24 had been shot down much more often for the action it sees as a supposed SEAD.

Getting shot down by roaches should had been the final nail of its coffin and the engineers should had commit Sudoku.

>>548347

Well it was shoot down by a F-16 AIM-9X, not by air defense.

>>548326

I'm pretty sure Russia counts everything that's been somehow put out of commission as "losses". If it was repaired and put back to service, it's still a loss.

>>548362

And thats why you will lose every war, you dont care about morale.

Besides if a car engine breaks, and you fix it, did you lose the car? Thats just dumb.

>>548351

I don't think roaches have AIM-9X yet. Probably an AIM-120B which is their staple missile.

>>548368

AIM120B is better. If recent air battles have.proven anything its that all of the difficult engagements take place at 40-60km. You need a missile for that regime.

60+ is a waste, -40 is not enough. AIM9X is a waste of money.

>>548366

>muh performance

>muh morale

If you gonna use cherrypicked and misattributed data to represent yourself, you might as well use straight up fake data, dipshit. It goes without saying that seeing for yourself mid-battle that the whole "no losses" agenda is plain fucking bullshit does worse to morale than admitting there were losses to start with. That's not to mention, this fucks up your military statistics, giving false impression that your shit performs magnitudes better than it actually does. You wind up overestimating your strength and get BTFO spectacularly.

>russia

>will lose every war

>hidden flag

I wonder who could be behind this post.

>>548369

>have your missiles optimized for specific engagement distance

>engagements happen at that distance

Shocker.

>>548368

>I don't think roaches have AIM-9X yet

That's what the roaches said. Also the F-16 came from the NATO airbase where the roaches F-16 are the ones for tactical nuclear strikes and whatnot, they're largely separated from the "basic" Turkish airforce and they've access to all the goodies uncle Sam has to offer.

And subsequently they were all largely part of the coup against the roach king, everyone involved is either dead or in jail for treason. While you can't trust them the roaches are adamant that the whole shot-down was done specifically to antagonize Russia by the same elements of the military that got purged and largely run by the US (which corroborate what Russia was saying = pure ambush at short range. While an AIM-120 lock would have been registered by Russian EW assets and used to prove it really was one), it wouldn't be surprising they broke out the good stuff for the occasion…

>>548013

>>548060

>>548053

>>548112

>>548101

Embed is a video of the actual event

3 seconds in you can hear him yelling "This is for my lads/buds/comrades (etc)" as he pulls the pin on the grenade

Several kebabs are removed

>>548505

Just imagine what would have happened if he dropped with more ammo.

>>548345

>Making a see through, or at least well camouflaged, airplane means.being able to avoid radar in TERCOM without being picked up visually.

But that's wrong. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean that a radar can't. Glass is transparent to our eyes because visual spectrum light will go right through it, but that's not the case with IR. Glass lenses can't be used in IR gas lasers because it's opaque at those frequencies and would either reflect or burn.

You might get a plane that people can't see with the naked eye, but in modern combat situations it's not visual scanning you need to watch out for, it's radar. An angular fuselage and radar-absorbing material would be far more effective at protecting the pilot and plane.

A fan or open prop would go a long way to reducing the heat signature while also extending the flight time between refueling.

>>548294

> Fuckin IFF must be a pain in the dick nowadays.

airsoft grade camo. if you wear that shit, you will glow in the dark on IR.

>>548373

America has missiles from 1km to over 100km, but almost all the fights are in 40-60km regime. Certainly the tougher fighter to fighter combat.

Everything with less range is not a huge danger, and can be solved with cannon. Anything at longer range cant be ID properly by fighter or AEW.

>>548519

TERCOM means terrain contour matching, its when an aircraft flies so low that it hugs the ground, which makes it difficult to detect. Add a good jammer and it works better than stealth.

Also Im not a proponent of transparency, just laying out the history. I think just better camo would work.

Video related. Imagine this where the construction is mostly non metallic carbon fibre and dyneema. Also the engine is replaced by a valveless pulsejet made of carbon fibre and ceramics, no metallic components. Would be silent to radar even without jammers, and good camo fitting the circumstance would make it invisible.

>>548526

shoot the ones in glowing jammies and sandals.

>>548545

>valveless pulsejet

Pulsejets in general have shitty volume to thrust ratio, I don't think you'd be able to carry much on that aircraft.

>>548526

Real life glow-in-the-dark CIA niggers?

>>548545

>this entire post

good god where do you even start on this

>>548555

Clearly the solution is to use the B-70 for CAS. SAMs aren't much of a threat if you're doing Mach 3 at hilltop level.

>>548262

>>548265

Elsewhere he advocated grey colored camouflage and "Yehudi Lights" for attack aircraft which seems more doable.

http://www.combatreform.org/camie.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehudi_lights

>Yehudi lights are lamps of automatically-controlled brightness placed on the front and leading edges of an aircraft to raise the aircraft's luminance to the average brightness of the sky, a form of active camouflage using counter-illumination. They were designed to camouflage the aircraft by preventing it from appearing as a dark object against the sky.

>In 1945 a Grumman Avenger with Yehudi lights got within 3,000 yards (2,700 m) of a ship before being sighted, when under the same conditions an uncamouflaged plane was detected at a range of about 12 miles (19 km). It was noted at the time that this would force the enemy either to give up radar silence, making submarines easy to locate but harder to approach, or for observers to use binoculars continually.

>>548282

Is he even alive now? Any recent activity?

>>548519

>You might get a plane that people can't see with the naked eye, but in modern combat situations it's not visual scanning you need to watch out for, it's radar. An angular fuselage and radar-absorbing material would be far more effective at protecting the pilot and plane.

It is meant to be used against terrorists who do not have access to radars.

Interesting concept, a modernized O-2 Skymaster:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/buzzard.html

It could benefit from some Schweizer RU-38B Twin Condor features, namely:

> One unique feature of the RU-38A is the front-engine exhaust pipes are positioned for exhaust to flow over the wings, allowing the wings to serve as a sound shield. This permits quiet operation when the rear engine is shut down. Normally the plane operates only a single engine during normal cruise operations. The aft engine has a full-feathering propeller (with accumulator) and will typically be shut down during the "quiet" surveillance mode. The aft engine is in reality a redundant engine available to eliminate the risk of engine failure and to provide higher cruise speeds during ingress and egress.

>The RU-38A has a "twin-boom" configuration with the forward end of each boom consisting of a pod containing various instruments. The port pod contains the AN/APN-215(V) color radar with search and mapping capabilities, while the starboard pod contains an AN/AAQ-15 Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) system and a Low-Light-Level TV vision system.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/ru-38.htm

Another concept, Super Bronco:

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/bronco.html

Maybe it can utilize interchangeable pods (ambulance, SIGINT/EW, personnel transport, SAR, gunship etc or fly without one for better performance) like Ka-226

https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/05/22/ka-226t-russias-unique-helicopter-now-in-india/

>>548564

I doubt the Valkyrie would be much faster than the median mach 1.2 on sea level for supersonic combat aircraft.

Both F-16 and MiG-31 cap at 1500km/h at low level flight.

>>548553

>>548547

yes. brass fetcher did a video on this topic. commercial grade airsoft camo isn't camo at all. infact if these dumbasses actually washed their camo clothes in commercial detergents, you strip all (if any) anti ir coatings on the material and make them glow in the dark on ir. why do you think you see people's clothes glowing in IR in police helicopter footage? commercial detergents.

that's why it's very important when buying camo you buy brand new and directly from the source where you can verify any ir resistant coatings.

btw. kryptek glows in the fucking dark. there isn't any anti ir coating from the factory chinese sweatshop. it's literally all a fucking meme pattern meant to look cool.

>>548545

>your attack has maximum effective range

>engagement happen at that range

Who would've thought.

>>548549

Their thrust-to-weight is better the F-22 engines though, so the weight of the engine for the same thrust is less. This means less thrust is needed to get the same overall TW for the aircraft.

A quad tube pulsejet could generate about 8kN thrust, which would be enough to run the aircraft handsomely.

I think Rutan made a mistake with the cannon. I would remove the cannon and replace it with 2x14.5mm gast guns on either sides, its lighter and better. This is possible because a front facing intake isnt needed for the pulsejets, all the intakes are facing backward and are smaller.

>>548555

Its def not silent and with a 4 tube engines it would scream like a banshee, but the noise can be blocked out and 4 tubes eases vibration by alternating deflagration shocks.

The only legit problem with pulsejets is fuel consumption, but they can run on anything, even wood dust, so fuel consumption isnt as huge a problem as people make it out to be.

I think thats an acceptable downside for the benefits of pulsejets. They are so indestructible that target drones using them can be hit dozens of times by AAA and still keep going. Pulsejets can be made of less radar reflective material, shaped better to reduce radar signature (no intake problem) and dont have turbine blades that make a massive radar signature. Theyre so cheap that they bring the aircraft cost down enough for it to be expendable, simple enough to build that thousands can be rattled off in wartime, and so reliable that maintenance is hardly needed (those vibrations even remove carbon buildup!).

>Anything flying low would be visible from above and easily attacked.

Not if it had a reduced signature, radar couldnt distinguish it from terrain. Also this isnt a fighter jet, I dont see why you expect it to be survivable against fighters but you dont apply the same standard for Apaches or Warthogs…

Im not saying this is a solution for every aircraft but COIN jets specifically fly very slow in the pulsejet efficiency "sweet spot" of 250-500kph, in low altitude where the atmosphere is dense enough for pulsejets, and get shot at all the time. Using a turbojet/turbofan on them seems a waste.

I don't believe in jet fighters. They can only carry guns. Stocking them merely damns your nation as a warmongering one. Build decent helicopters or turboprops or jet cargo planes, and anything they cannot do will simply be not worth doing.

>>551788

This is why you're retarded

>>551788

>So concerned about being seen as "warmongering" that you give up jet aircraft.

Britbongs, no….

>>551788

>what is air superiority

This is why you're no longer an empire

>>551788

>i dont believe in jets theyre too inefficient

>stock up on helicopters the most inefficient flying system ever invented

That's pretty funny I'll be honest.