793ae8 No.529186
So I'm finally able to get my hunting licence and finally defend my family from mudslimes and commies.
Sadly, with this country being a nofun shithole, I can only buy shotguns - without any kind of optic, because apparently optics make your shotgun a dangerous illegal murder weapon.
So, no pistols, no rifles, no explosives. Just shotguns. My budget is 2000 EUR ($2329). Everything here is overpriced as shit which means I will actually need that much cash to get a decent gun with a bunch of ammo. I was thinking of either a Saiga or a Vepr-12.
However there are many other neato options here. I can get a Mossberg 590 for €689
Then there's the kind of ammunition. I understand that Americans will prefer buckshot because slugs will penetrate half the neighbor. Butt buildings here are made of cinder blocks filled with concrete. I should in theory be perfectly fine with using slugs as home defense, right?
I've already read all of our poorgun guides but since my budget is somewhat higher, I was thinking that maybe you lads could offer some other suggestions
b4e2d0 No.529188
Hello friend, I would say to get either a:
Mossberg 590/500
Maverick 88
Remington 870
Just get the cheapest you can find, and with the rest of the budget buy as much buckshot as you can, overpenetration is a risk even with thicker walls and it's still perfectly suited for home defense.
And lastly, train as much as you can, this is very important, guns are useless if you cant hit.
b4e2d0 No.529190
I'm just going to add another something, it's great that you have a higher budget, but when it comes to shotguns I don't think going higher end is worth it when it is basically the same as cheaper stuff but with a better finish. So yeah spend on ammo and training instead
793ae8 No.529191
>>529188 (Heil'd)
I'm heading towards the Mossberg 590 and spend the rest of the budget on tons of ammo and accessories.
But that Vepr-12 with the 22inch long barrel is also a sexy purchase.
793ae8 No.529192
>>529191
Forgot to add that both the Vepr and the Saiga cost a whooping €1600 ($1864)
b4e2d0 No.529193
>>529191
Call me old fashioned but I don't believe in selfloading shotguns for anything else than competition. I'll always be scared of a potential stoppage and I feel like you'd be tempted to just blast away without thinking in a home defense situation.
Also the price holy shit
(Polite sage because we're both just double posting)
17ed34 No.529235
>>529191
590 is a damn solid choice. The 870 has a better aftermarket, at least here in the states, but in my experience, from a longevity standpoint most of the parts in a 500/590 are more robust than the remington counterpart, and easier to replace if it becomes necessary.
531a84 No.529242
>>529191
I can add that the 590 is a solid choice, I got an A1 model with the bayonet lug. Its cash money.
793ae8 No.529248
>>529193
>>529235
>>529242
Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights it is then.
Thanks lads, appreciated.
Will order a bunch of slugs too to do some penetration tests. If the average building can withstand more than 2 slugs then I'll be using them for home defense and hunting.
17ed34 No.529253
>>529248
>slugs
Don't know what the ammo situation is there, but I know Federal F127RS slugs group fucking great out of my 590. We don't get them anymore but the turkish made 'Bren' style slugs also did pretty damn well for me. If you're loading your own, within 35 yards or so a handful of 00 buck pellets over a 1oz slug is a fine fuck you load.
6f9779 No.529254
The problem with the VEPR is that you need to worry about the hugely overcosted magazines, if you want to hunt birds you need to camouflage it and then it gets more expensive, VEPRs weight can get annoying on long hunts at 4.55kg10 to 11lbs and 22 inch barrels might be clumsy depending on what your home is like. That being said, VEPR is good to go and you really don't need anything other than magazines after you get it. From what I heard, Saiga need too much fine tuning to warrant buying it.
But yeah, 590 with ghost rings is ideal since you cannot into optics.
793ae8 No.529259
>>529253
The store I'm planning to get the 590 from also sells the F127 RS.
Pretty fucking expensive. Bet I could find a Jewish Merchant selling them for a cheaper price. $8.75 for 5 shells is too much. Any other good slugs? The longer the range the better.
>>529254
I was thinking of that too. My house has 3 corridor halls. That barrel would be a nuisance. The mags are also expensive and hard to find here.
17ed34 No.529262
>>529259
Winchester PDX and Ranger slugs are usually pretty good, even if their buckshot is crap. If you have the chance to buy Remington slugs or Truball shells run the fuck away from them. Don't know about any European manufacturers unfortunately.
531a84 No.529263
>>529262
Fiocchi is one of the bigger names in Europe, hell he might even be able to get dirt cheap Norchinko shit too.
793ae8 No.529267
>>529262
>Winchester PDX
A-anon I don't think you took me seriously when I said that everything here is overpriced. That's 55 dollars for 10 slugs.
>>529263
Found some Fiocchi ones but they're mostly buckshot. The only slugs I found from them look pretty nigger-tier.
f455d8 No.529270
>>529267
Look up Brenneke S or Sabot.
It's under-calibrated slugs (20 caliber slug, with a charge of 12 caliber).
It's rarely sold in the US as "Special force anti vehicle round".
It's just used to kill hogs initially though.
793ae8 No.529271
>>529270
The only thing I can find
e5bfa4 No.529314
>>529186
If you're dropping that much dough, you can afford a Benelli M2. Who needs optics? You can get fat charging handle, extended magazine, and a bigger bolt release. This is the go-to for any three gun compeditor. I've never had a failure in mine, and I've been using a bunch of different shit. The old owner hunted geese, and never cleaned it. Still not a spot of rust.
f455d8 No.529322
>>529271
Yeah those are good slugs.
f455d8 No.529331
>>529271
Don't be retarded and use them for home defense though, slug made to take down a boar go through people like tissue paper. It's to use on your land or down the street for SHTF, that kind of shit.
Nor for training either (too pricey).
For training GECO (German) make decent ones ( those: https://geco-munition.de/en/ammunition/shot-shells/Product/show/geco-coated-competition-slug.html, I can get them at 0,73€ per slug) but Mary Arm Slug Sport (french) should be closer to the Rubin Sabot.
No clue if you can source them in Greece though (should be, for all the individual regulation buying ammo or even weapons from one EU state to the other isn't hard as long as you have the local state authorization, so the gunshop network is largely the same).
For home defense either you go for some Fiochi n°4 buckshot (which won't have any power after going through a dry wall) if you live in an appartement complex or something, or if you live in a place where they have solid walls some good fragmentation slugs.
The only ones I know are "Wonder S" slugs but that's a french thing.
793ae8 No.529528
>>529314
Sadly that thing costs over 1000 EUR here. I've decided to go for the Mossberg 590.
>>529331
If I get invaded by armed commies then I'm loading up the slugs. Thanks for the rest of the information lad.
d7b8da No.529543
>>529331
Hie my fellow patriote, I wanted to buy a mossberg maverick 88. But I can't find one with sight on it… Some people here adviced me to buy with sight. Is there some mossberg with sight available in france? Do you have an advice regarding the armory I should buy from?
Thanks!
(btw, is a CZ 455 the best 22lr I could buy, regarding the french market?)
531a84 No.529547
>>529543
If I recall Maverick 88's barrels interchange with the 500 so finding a barrel with rifle sights shouldn't be too hard. You could just throw a rail on the gun and get a study red dot.
b4e2d0 No.529554
>>529543
hello friend, In general anything CZ is pretty gucci, and I genuinely don't know any other bolt in 22lr that would be better than the 455. plus you got a ton of options in terms of feature and aesthethics and so you can find a 455 at just about any pricepoint. My personnal recommendation would be to try and find one with a threaded barrel because a suppressor is a load of fun.
As for the 88 I think you can slap a Mossberg rail on it, you will need to do the drilling yourserlf but it's not that hard. www.armurerie-lavaux.com sells both the gun and the rails if you're interested.
however do get a second opinion on the rail compatibility because I'm not sure if it'll actually fit the Maverick
02f753 No.529631
>>529543
>Is there some mossberg with sight available in france?
There are but not in cat. C, AFAICT.
>is a CZ 455 the best 22lr I could buy
Lol no.
It's the best cost/performance ratio available. Which isn't the same. An Anschutz is a bit better (for two or three time the price), a Bleiker is way better (ten times the price).
Of course if you don't plan on making serious competition it's stupid to drop that much money on a .22 bolt.
So CZ 455.
e007a1 No.529634
>>529543
The maverick has a clean receiver. You'll need to get a gun smith to drill and tap holes into it so you can attach a rail which of course cost even more money or do as >>529554 said with trying to do it yourself. The next best options is to either get a cantilever barrel which is usually a rifled slug barrel (which being legal for you is hopefully easily found there) with a rail section jutting from the barrel and back towards the receiver. Or get a tacticool side saddle with rail on top (pic related).
The cantilever barrel will likely be a weaver rail so you'll be stuck with only fudd optics however railed side saddles tend to be picatinny so you can shoot peaceful truckers with a wider variety of optics (weaver shit can usually mount onto picatinny).
5096e5 No.529654
>>529267
>That's 55 dollars for 10 slugs.
Jimminy Christ
Just start loading your own
9f5dbe No.529659
>>529186
You want buckshot. More lethal against soft tissue, especially in close quarters.
c63b96 No.529942
>>529654
All my this greekbro. Start learning to handload, the cheapest I know of is the lee load all press, then start casting slugs. You will get it a lot cheaper, especially when you talk to wheel alignment places and mechanics who throw out lead wheel weights by the bucket.
793ae8 No.529946
>>529654
>>529942
I know lads. But for now I will just get some Federal F127RS like >>529253 suggested.
I'm also planning to test Greek ammo made by Lambro. I've heard from fellow Greek hunters that their slugs and buckshot are superior to many other foreign ones.
I'll get some pic related and test them out and compare them to the Federal and the Brenneke Rubin Sabots. If they're as good as those then I will gladly choose to support my country's company.
793ae8 No.529948
And by the way I'm going with the Mossberg 590 Special Purpose.
c63b96 No.529956
>>529948
If all you have is a 12 gauge, you're still very well armed!
6a3e2b No.529982
>>529956
ya until the intruder walks more than 50ft away where the pellets turn into popcorn
f59062 No.530035
>>529982
>Intruder
>*Walking* 50 ft away from you in your property
Try 50 YARDS for buckshot, longer if you use 3" magnum with choke. Plus, as our learned souvlaki huffing OP has already found, there is always slugs.
793ae8 No.530094
>>529982
>Using anything other than slugs for home defense
What are you, a burger or something?
f59062 No.530125
>>530094
There is one way a slug won't horribly overpenetrate like a catholic priest cock in an altar boy, and that's low recoil hollowpoint slugs you either buy or load yourself. Do that and you're leaving fist sized wounds on the outside and organ salad on the inside.
71391b No.530128
>>530125
that's quite the colorful description, strelok
5374f9 No.530138
>>530094
>reducing hit probability and increasing penetration
>in a gun designed to increase hit probability and reduce penetration
What the fuck are you doing lad? Just get a rifle at that point
12b297 No.530145
>>530138
>Sending a full ounce of solid fuck off downrange at 1600fps every time you pull the trigger doesn't give him an erection
471d89 No.530169
>>530138
>hit probability
Fun fact the shot in a shotgun doesn't spread out because it's not a blunderbuss. At longest range in a house the group is basically 20mm across.
9f5dbe No.530171
>>529982
>>530094
>Implying 000 buckshot is the best assrape load besides .50BMG
9f5dbe No.530172
>>530169
But the shot spreads out in the tissue and causes more tissue destruction and bleeding
cca73a No.530180
>>530169
>>530172
I don't know what makes me more erect
That the shot doesn't spread with the right choke and puts an angry hive of leaden wasps into a redguards chest
Or that it does and makes him fucking swiss cheese.
c8551c No.530183
>>530169
Get a super shorty firearm. At 20 feet the spread is about 10 inches iirc.
5374f9 No.530200
>>530169
Depends on the choke used, lad, and if you use a rifled barrel or not.
793ae8 No.530226
>>530138
>Just get a rifle at that point
I'd love to, but I can't.
The only way to get a handgun and Rifle license is to join a shooting sports club and participate in 30 official matches over the course of half a decade. Then you need to request a permission to your local police station for a handgun license that you will never get because the government has the police by it's balls and they will never give you the license
.
You have a higher chance of getting a rifle license approved, but the only rifles one can get here are nigler-tier. They're not rifled, they can hold maximum 4 rounds and once again no optics allowed.
It's a nightmare, therefore shotguns are the only relevant firearm one can acquire without being an army high official.
12b297 No.530251
>>530183
Or just run a bad load. I'm not sure what the hell the No 3 Buck I've got are supposed to be used against, but at 25 yards there's typically no pellets on a 12"x12" target, just light sprinkles around the outer backing and that's with a modified choke not a cylinder bore.
5d64a4 No.530271
>>530226
aren't the police corrupt as fuck? Why not give officer zeus some extra cash for a little rifle license?
e70c55 No.530299
>>530271
There's a difference between turning a blind eye to a paki pedophile selling illegal cigarettes and allowing a Christian goy defend himself with lethal force.
Pigs in our country might be a bit more redpilled than the global average but that's all for the worst cause they know (((who))) they ultimately serve.