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There's no discharge in the war!

File: 8cb165b68000481⋯.jpg (122.6 KB, 1100x700, 11:7, mortar.jpg)

File: 72edf9890b1ceb8⋯.jpg (3.87 MB, 2448x3264, 3:4, 37mm spade mortar.jpg)

File: 504330ccb311957⋯.jpg (95.83 KB, 640x776, 80:97, Cpl Peter P. Zacharko stan….jpg)

File: b870adafe32966b⋯.jpg (98.58 KB, 600x421, 600:421, amos_l4.jpg)

a72307 No.521504

A thread for trench mortars, from soviet spade mortars to the AMOS.

And to start it with something: a problem of light mortars is that the shells are just too heavy for what they do. There have been a lot of effort to make lighter mortars, but the shells barely changed since the first world war. So I wonder, could you make them out of polymer? These weapons are rather low pressure, and you only need the shells to go on a one-way trip. ILLUM and WP doesn't need a steel body for fragmentation after all, and for HE you could fill up the polymer shell with explosives and steel balls. That would actually improve the fragmentation pattern.

4789d3 No.521539

Why just not put the mortars on a light vehicle?


5eec68 No.521543

Paper could be a decent option for shell cases with a little sealant to stop water being an issue. The biggest problem is frag as you need twice as much frag by weight as you have explosives for best effect.

A partial solution could be a fuse extender for airburst without expensive proximity fuses.


5eec68 No.521545

You could also go the complete other direction, make the rounds heavier with complex guidance and have the assistant carry a spotting / targeting drone.

>send up drone

>relay target info to round

>make the most of every round so less need to be carried


4539b9 No.521549

>>521504

The issue with shells is cheapness and durability. They're more likely to be made out of aluminum.

>>521539

Because a mortars huge recoil is directed into the earth, so strong that after serving on 120mm I've seen earthworms hundreds of meters away crawling out of the earth because of shockwave.

Putting such a thing on a LIGHT vehicle is bound to at least bounce the vehicle and spoil follow up shots, and probably go so far as to break an axle or springs.

Only way to really do it is on tracked vehicles, because the track sort of simulates the plate on a mortar, it doesn't bounce, and force is distributed flat.

Even then the tracked vehicle needs significant mass to serve as anchor, or some additional trick. Look at the Wiesel 120mm prototype, its too light to serve as anchor, so it needs to lower two massive shock absorbers before it can use the mortar.


4539b9 No.521565


f1c998 No.521568

>>521549

>a mortars huge recoil

So? Put some hydraulic outriggers on a one ton truck.


4539b9 No.521572

>>521568

Another thing that can break down…. also

whats the point when in the time it takes the legs to be emplaced you could unload and set up a carried mortar and baseplate from a 1/2 ton buggy.


a8d2fd No.521575

>>521543

i dunno putting highly flamable/exploding material into paper shell doesnt sound like best idea

>>521545

i dunno doesnt sound that good. point of mortars is being cheap as fuck tube, and this would somehow weaken this pourpose

>>521549

>Because a mortars huge recoil is directed into the earth, so strong that after serving on 120mm I've seen earthworms hundreds of meters away crawling out of the earth because of shockwave.

clearly the answer is to make recoiless mortars


a647d6 No.521579

File: af2aff6f4c93488⋯.jpg (87.73 KB, 640x480, 4:3, German 17cm Trench Mortar0….jpg)


4539b9 No.521582

>>521575

>clearly the answer is to make recoiless mortars

I think the RPG-7 is basically that.

Or the chink 107mm rockets.


7bf749 No.521587

Could you do a rapid fire mortar in a 240mm caliber?


59d20b No.521718

File: d53df708cbf11b2⋯.png (45.21 KB, 778x512, 389:256, tmp_26173-d53df708cbf11b25….png)

Why can't a commando mortar be a spigot mortar to reduce the weight of the launcher? (And possibly the shell/bomb itself since it's walls aren't coming into contact with the mortar tube.)

It sounds similar to a rifle grenade and is, but isn't limited by stock fragility and barrel rigidity unlike a rifle. It also would be purpose designed for the role unlike a rifle which is designed to be fired from the shoulder not the ground.

I figured for the bomb, you would have a steel sleeve with a propellant charge nested inside. The spigot barrel would be steel and hollow with the walls of the barrel sliding between the walls of the bomb and the powder charge. The base of the charge would have a primer whilst the spigot would have a firing pin that is locked back allowing the weapon to be carried loaded. Surrounding the steel walls of the bomb would be some HE and some steel fragments embedded in cast plastic.

One alternative to fins may be to have a few 'lugs' on the outside of the spigot barrel which mate with some grooves cast into the walls of the bombs steel sleeve. Like the whole artillery winglet idea but inside out. This means that as the bomb progresses along the length of the spigot, is forced to rotate by the camming action. Eh?

As an alternative to solid lumps of HE with frag sleeves, you could surround the steel sleeve with convex copper disks lined with HE and an electric fusing mechanism so a shit load of layered EFPs are used instead for greater range and more even fragment distribution. Probably a technical reason why this can't be done however.

For extra autism, you could integrate a high-low system.

t. Not an engineer/physicist/soldier/Hungarian/smart man

I was reading through some old screen caps a few weeks ago Hungary, and you mentioned you needed to write your thesis to finish university. How did you with that? What did you study?


59d20b No.521719

>>521718

This has all been typed on a phone so the formatting is shit.


4539b9 No.521749

>>521718

Regular mortar encloses the charge in a large tube.Spigot mortar encloses the charge in a smaller barrel on the bomb. So most of the mass for the enclosing is actually just transferred from one tube to another.

You end up with heavier ammo that often has less range and carries less charge.

This >>521565 is useful because it's silent.

It all depends on if your special forces are willing to make that sacrifice in range for a bit more portability.

>hunarian

>leafs are always invisible

;_;


4789d3 No.521763

>>521549

But that was a big mortar, I was thinking lighter mortars.

Or are we not allowed to have light mortars? Fuck it, just put everything halftracks.


87a4d7 No.521768

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Does this seem legit?

>>521549

Can a mortar destroy a rooftop if you fire it off one?


2c989f No.521804

>>521718

Political science. Wasted more than three years of my life for a useless degree. Now I'm learning gun smithing to make my autistic visions real. Funnily enough, this is enough information to doxx me of you've got access to the right files.


c0fce9 No.521809

>>521582

russian GPs are set up to do high angle fire, somebody could make an RPG for that


59d20b No.521837

>>521804

Why gunsmithing and not mechanical engineering? The political science isn't entirely useless, I know you post on /pol/ because I can recognize the weeaboo images you post here and there.


87a4d7 No.521838

>>521823

I was thinking more like a parking garage or an office building with a door to the roof, though residential house is good to know


87a4d7 No.521873

>>521862

Just wanted to know for urban ambush tactics.


ffab82 No.521878

>>521539

>>521549

I would argue that you could do just that, put heavy mortar tubes on pickup trucks. The trick here is that the whole thing needs to work like the russian "tulpan"-mortar system, where the tube, with it's firing plate gets supported directly against the ground, thus propably negating the issues caused by recoil. However, I think it would be just better to utilize dismounted mortars since that pickup-mortar would be almost as slow, and far less reliable due to added mechanical complexity than the traditional mortar.

>>521587

Ofcourse it could be designed and made. It would make no sense to do so however as you would end up with what essentially is a firebase on tracks, with fobbits and all that.


7bf749 No.521908

File: 510cb416c955be5⋯.jpg (362.71 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, 1280px-Bandkanon_1.jpg)

>>521878

The Swedes made a rapid fire Nuclear artillery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandkanon_1

It had an exceptionally high rate of fire, being able to fire 14 shells in 45 seconds.[1] With one round already loaded in the gun beside the two seven-round clips in the magazine, the rate of fire rose to official world record of 15 rounds in 45 seconds. The magazine could then be reloaded with a built-in hoist in about 2 minutes.


af40a1 No.521922

File: 76f2bfb8c4eb6d6⋯.webm (6 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Nuclear Bandkanon.webm)


a8e2ec No.522586

File: 39a00ca0435c275⋯.webm (4.12 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 2S4 Tyulpan.webm)

File: fb712a389254b2c⋯.png (156.71 KB, 403x433, 403:433, satania:autism.png)

>>521768

Well, it's made of all kinds of polymers, and you can't use it with a bipod. If everything goes well, then in a few years we will have cheap steel-aluminium alloys that are as dense as titanium, but are even stronger, so even a thinner tube is good enough. Now, I can't even think of how far reaching the effects will be, but 60mm mortars too will be very light, so this will look like a waste.

Also, at 4.9-5.3kg it's indeed stupidly light, but a 60mm shell is still about 1.7kg. An M224 in handheld mode is about 10kg, so you've saved ~5kg. It's nice for the grunt who has to carry it into battle, but you can bet that an officer will make him carry the difference in shells. And 3 shells weigh 5.1kg. So it's not that much of an increase. But if those shells were only 1kg, then this mortar would net 5 extra shells. Not to mention that the whole loadout would be significantly decreased, thus the number of round increased. An other benefit could be the increased range, but then you'd need new sights for the new ballistics, so it might be better to just replicate the trajectory of the heavier shells.

>>521587

Well, just put an autoloader on the 2S4 Tyulpan and you have it. But then the amount of ammo carried would be rather low, so you'd have to escort it with at least a few trucks that carry more, and then you should put some other units next to your mortars that protect then, and then you indeed end up with a mobile firebase as >>521878 said.

>>521908

A 155mm shell's weight is about 50kg, give or take. A 240mm mortar shell is 130kg. Just look at vid related to see how big they really are.

>>521837

>Why gunsmithing and not mechanical engineering?

You can't even touch a gun if you aren't a gunsmith. Look at this site: http://www.neogravir.hu/index.php/galeria-2/puskak/

The man who made these too had to attend the same school I'm going to, because temporarily having the sideplate of a bolt-action rifle is apparently illegal if you don't have the paper to modify firearms. Even replacing the barrel of a rifle you own is an act that could put you in prison, because it's the same as building a brand new firearm according to the law. And if people a hundred years ago could invent automatic weapons with nothing but pen and paper and their own imagination, then I'm sure that I can make something useful with the help of CAD programs and more than a hundred years of research in this area.

>The political science isn't entirely useless

It is, believe me.

>I know you post on /pol/ because I can recognize the weeaboo images you post here and there.

Well, I rarely if ever post on /pol/ since the elections, and I usually post weeabo images I find on /a/, so there is a good chance that it wasn't me. Although it's not impossible.


d05f59 No.524307

Based on >>523791 I think using lightweight shrapnel is the best idea. So, how about a 60mm mortar shell like this?

>500 steel balls with a weight of 1g

>200g explosives

>300g for the fuze, the polymer body and the propellant rings

That doesn't seem to be unrealistic for me, yet it would be surely superior to the classic designs.


11aa1b No.524310

File: 6bf9f2a19035bcb⋯.jpg (11.34 KB, 193x261, 193:261, main-qimg-824c56d50927b11b….jpg)

File: 54b336021428288⋯.jpg (59 KB, 602x432, 301:216, main-qimg-88d9585ccfea2ddd….jpg)

>>524307

That's what modern grenades have. It uses a spherical shape so it has the most possible explosive filler per unit weight, which means speed. And its using prefragmented fillers broke up into neat pieces small enough to be very very fast. These things have a high chance of being deadly even with armor, especially as they cover even more area.

Same is true for the RPG frag warhead, and claymore mines. Maximum number of pieces, propelled by maximum amount of explosive so they're super fast.


c50735 No.524373

File: 452e1dc26bd62e1⋯.jpg (108.49 KB, 972x1296, 3:4, 25sMWaAMRABruxellesA.jpg)

File: dd78e59ba7d3e8a⋯.png (1.35 MB, 800x1067, 800:1067, 800px-25_cm_Minenwerfer_of….png)

File: 39d623a9b00e465⋯.png (272.23 KB, 476x492, 119:123, 39d623a9b00e465ee1fffa6dd2….png)

>Anti aircraft lasers become widespread

>Fighters and bombers are useless since anything flying slower than light speed is shot down

>Siege mortars come back into style


d05f59 No.524380

>>524310

Indeed, but it's not really applied to mortar shells as far as I know. Also, for this application you could cast the steel balls in some wax-like glue and optimize the fragmentation pattern that way. It would be especially good for airbursting shells.

>>524373

Russians already thinking about modernizing some Tyulpans and the 203mm guns for this same reason. Although it's because of the S-400 and S-500, not lasers. Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_90_240_mm_railway_gun

A French gun from the 1930s that could accelerate a 160kg projectile to 1050m/s. That's about where a ramjet/scramjet can start working optimally. In other words you could use superheavy artillery guns to launch missiles that can easily take out aircraft a few hunred kms due to their speed. And you could launch at least 2 every minute with just one cannon.


121b1b No.524399

File: 1657f72e266dab4⋯.jpg (80.16 KB, 747x451, 747:451, my dick.jpg)

>>524373

yfw ww1 service guns get to kill again


8b90a5 No.524407

>>524399

>battlefield 1 fanboys carry customized ww1 era automatics modified with stainless steel or otherwise made to be more reliable

>next full scale war is a big video game simulation clusterfuck best war ever

>>524310

seems like the hollow grenade would have a more effective range. but I dunno that much about grenades.


c50735 No.524414

>>524380

I'm telling you, when AA lasers become widespread fighters/bombers will be useless. You can't outmaneuver a beam of light, and there's really no way to counteract it.


1d69b5 No.524419

File: ae04ddd24b96d86⋯.jpg (68.03 KB, 736x981, 736:981, 0747707833bad058ba9145758e….jpg)

>>524414

Bitch, please. These plus thermal isolation and you are set.


c50735 No.524425

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>524419

Mirrors won't reflect IR lasers. And to stop the plane from buring up you would need to cover the whole thing in thick cermics or tungsten carbide, and even then it wouldn't hold up long enough for you to bomb, or BRRRRTTTTTT anything before go down like a drunk fat bitch at a frat party.


11aa1b No.524432

>>524407

Nah, but it would have a more predictable spread of fragments.

This is called "air lensing", you use the air inside like an explosive lens, because explosive force is "refracting" in the cavity.

It's not used because it makes the bomb much bigger, obviously.

>>524380

I think most mortar shells are functioning on accustomed-to-cheap economics. The buyers are all accustomed to cheap WWII manufacturing technology, so they cringe when they see a 2x higher price even if it delivers a 5x more lethal round.

its also called loss aversion but i like my name better


01e912 No.524433

>>524414

>and there's really no way to counteract it

It's called blooming. There are materials that vaporize under lazor heat but not so much by air-friction.


11aa1b No.524434

>>524419

More effective counter would just be to fly low. You'd fly past faster than any laser could do any damage to you.

Or launch a really fast laser-beam riding missile at the source. Laser weapons have a range of a few mile in atmosphere and need a few seconds to do damage. A modified NASAMS could do it, traveling at mach 6.


c50735 No.524448

>>524434

You do realize the emitter can still track you, and a well set up laser system would burn your ass before you got that close. Probably from hundreds of miles

>>524433

okay, you block the laser for 1/100th of a second then you're fucked. That kind of shit only works on missiles, not a continuous beam of death.


1f1041 No.524458

>>524373

>>524414

>>524425

>>524448

>M-muh stawtrack laysuhs wuh brim bac wurlworwuhn.

If it's so effective on planes it would also work on EVERYTHING else to the point that military strategy would be "build a yuge tower with a hueger laser than anyone else has on it or go home" which that isn't how it ever works btw.


c50735 No.524548

>>524458

It's easier to shoot planes out of the sky, there's no cover in the air.


11aa1b No.524568

>>524448

>laser shooting nap of earth bomber

>at range of hundreds of miles

>beyond horizon

No problem my bomber pilot will just see around the curvature of spacetime continuum to look into the future and dodge your beam macross-style.


1f1041 No.524593

>>524548

Ok dumbass the world is not composed entirely of Ceramic and Tungsten Carbide, ergo if they had to they could easily bore through everything.


c50735 No.524709

>>524593

Through a mountain/hillside., or a large building. Also a straight beam of light ain't hitting anything over the horizon.


427509 No.524715

>>524373

Wouldn't those AA lasers be just as effective as anti-artillery CIWS?


427509 No.524717

File: aa1e3723a14dcf2⋯.jpg (441.49 KB, 1920x1200, 8:5, Spess LAZOR!.jpg)

>>524709

I think he was suggesting that you use the laser to burn a tunnel through the earth and come out under the feet of the target, which ticks off most of the boxes on the 'K design thread supervillainy/retardation checklist'.

It's a strange day when a network of Ion Cannon style kill-sats is actually the more restrained and practical suggestion.


b8a2cd No.524718

>>524717

>YFW we don't have nuclear pumped space lasers mutilating the shit out of kebab shitholes

It's a saddening feel.


11aa1b No.524736

>>524715

But anti artillery CIWS is not effective…


427509 No.524791

>>524736

But if it was lasers …


f3da6c No.524793

>>524718

soon, товарищ, soon…


c50735 No.524802

>>524715

Low flying scramjet shells or LOSAT missiles traveling at >mach 6 plated with tungsten, or some ultra-high-temperature cermaics could reach the laser emplacement before being burned.


11aa1b No.524823

File: 837c6dba6701514⋯.jpg (11.66 KB, 220x205, 44:41, 220px-Cork_p1160013.jpg)

File: af216a2d36f1b39⋯.jpg (81.86 KB, 800x531, 800:531, cork-underlayment.jpg)

>>524802

Or you know, just gluing this everywhere on the missile, to make it completely immune to lasers.


c50735 No.524833

>>524823

I don't get it? Wouldn't that just burst into flames?


121b1b No.524840

>>524833

Soviets covered their reentry pods with cork.


11aa1b No.524850

>>524833

It's called ablative armor, it's supposed to burn off while transferring none of the heat to the machinery underneath.


c50735 No.524859

>>524850

>>524840

That could work. The shell/missile only needs to hold up for a few seconds


427509 No.524878

File: 9b06758cc4e6f1a⋯.jpg (215.79 KB, 400x400, 1:1, ablative armour.jpg)

>>524859

>Military Engineers hate him

>An old Russian defeated multi-Gigawatt CIWS lasers with this one weird trick.




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