/k/ - Weapons

>>518274

Oh woops, the 2nd one is the SKS guide, not the Mosin guide

make sure whatever one you get is matching #'s. I enjoy my nugget, and I fire it somewhat regularly. There's also the nice historical perspective that comes along with nuggets.

>>518273

>Cheap to buy

Not anymore, Anon. $100 Mosins are a thing of the past. They're pushing ~$200 across the US now.

>cheap to shoot

Not really anymore. The prepper crowd descended on 'x54r during the last election cycle and surplus is rising a bit in price. Imported ammunition is coming in much more slowly due to the happenings in Ukraine and is fairly low quality as it is.

>a solid rifle

That's about the only benefit to it.

>and a nice piece to own in general.

"Nice" is in the eye of the beholder, but I'd have to disagree. I own a refurbished 91/30 as well as a Polish M44 - they're both kinda crap unless you enjoy the feeling of an absurdly mass-produced slugthrower that shoots paper plate sized groups at 100 yards. Save your cash and buy a Finnish capture or a Yugoslav Mauser.

I got mine for $60 back when they were cheap as shit. I don't regret it in the slightest bit (it was muh first rifle I bought on my own when I turned 18 after all), but the price tags I've seen on them as of late place them in the $250 - $400 range and I can tell you most Mosins are not worth that much at all.

If you do decide to go with one regardless for whatever reason, then be sure to follow the advice in >>518274 and >>518277

You don't want to spend hundreds of dollary doos on a shot out piece of shit rifle simply because you saw a bunch of maymays on the internet that gave it exaggerated praise.

>>518274

Good to know, this went over my head in considering one to buy. The rifles I've "owned" were bought new so I never bothered.

>>518278

Could it be the age and "shot out" bores like those mentioned in the first reply or should I expect that accuracy, given best case scenario? To you're last point, would you know of a more ideal wood furnished rifle in the $200-$250 range to draw comparisons?

>>518273

You're wasting your money, they're junk.

>>518278

just 200? Where do you live

I haven't seen one under 400 irl, ever.

It's not cheap to buy

It's not cheap to shoot

It is utterly obsolete

Spend your $400 on a PSA AR, thank me later.

>>518286

>I haven't seen one under 400 irl, ever.

>ever

Youngfags

>>518284

>Could it be the age and "shot out" bores like those mentioned in the first reply or should I expect that accuracy, given best case scenario?

It's the general performance depending on many factors - the stock, the sights, the bore, the crown, if the bolt matches, and the ammunition.

The crown will very typically be damage and the ammunition is poor. The bores on many look like sewer pipes not only because of use(very rarely since many just sat in storage) but because of dried cosmoline in the rifling. Learn to remove it before you start shooting. The accurate rifles are decommissioned sniper rifles(tapped holes in the receiver have been covered with welds) and Finnish captures. The rest shoot minute-of-man sized groups as it was satisfactory.

>To you're last point, would you know of a more ideal wood furnished rifle in the $200-$250 range to draw comparisons?

The Mosin is definitely not ideal, but the Vz. 24 often dips down to around $350 last I checked, and the Mosin will only increase in cost.

>>518286

>just 200? Where do you live

Somewhere other than you, because different areas place a different value on guns.

>I haven't seen one under 400 irl, ever.

Are you old enough to use the internet, sport?

>>518289

time doesn't travel in reverse, sport

If you spend even $200 on a Mosin when you could get an Axis from walmart for slightly more, you're dumb.

>>518291

>too young to have seen $100 Mosins

>calling other people "sport"

Yeah okay kid

The Mosin Nagant is the rifle that will take down any modern military. That doesn't mean the rifle itself is great, but it's the rifle that, when the chips are down, farmers will take to the streets with it and wield it with precision, taking out squads of trained soldiers because it's cheap, common, but accurate more than most battlefield rifles. It's a bolt action rifle in the best form. It's not a good combat rifle, because it's a bolt action. But it's more accurate than any standard issue military arm currently in service, at a much higher range than pencil pushers will calculate for. Unless you're looking for something special like a Westinghouse Mosin, any other Mosin will be just as good as another, as long as it's not fucked to hell.

>>518295

>But it's more accurate than any standard issue military arm currently in service

I don't think that's true. M16s get 2 MOA with the green tip ammo, which can go down with good gucci ammo. What can a Mosin get with cheapo surplus ammo?

>>518292

>100 dollar mosin

are you 40 years old? They haven't been that cheap in about a decade.

Firstly think to use the QTDDTOT thread next time you think of a question, so congratulations on your low effort thread. Secondly before you consult any faggot on this board try "ctrl + f" to find the new guide for new fags such as yourself.

>>518273

>Firstly think to use the QTDDTOT thread next time you think of a question, so congratulations on your low effort thread. Secondly before you consult any faggot on this board try "ctrl + f" to find the new guide for new fags such as yourself.

>>518292

>calling someone out for doing the thing you forgot you did one post earlier

>>518291

preferring milsurp blinds some /k/ to a lot of great durr shooting rifles. funny, my friend was relating to me how his pursuit of 6.5 creed made him realize his father's "lol fudd durr rifle" 260 rem was a decade ahead of the tactical crowd.

fuck, thread related, the reason why Fin mosins were so good was the Fins love of blasting durr. hunting is good practical usage.

and if you want milsurp, get a mauser. yugos M48s are cheap and excellent, zastava built them on sold german equipment.

>>518303

>>518305

nice posting, dumbshit. maybe you should stay in the QTDDTOT and let the board move.

>>518302

>muh mosin

even at 75$, it's still a waste of money

Why buy a Mosin when you can get a Mauser?

>>518331

Updated version? NOICE!

I know it says home and personell defence, but it wouldn't hurt to put some bolt-action rifle and scope options on there. My recommendation would be finding a used pre-2007 Remington 700 SA.

>>518274

>norinco SKS at $300 to $350

This is rather old? I see them going for atleast $350 but more likely $400.

Im getting ready to buy one that had a fudd mess with the stock (I think I can unfuck it enough) for $240 tomorrow.

Finnish M39 is the only good nugget, M38s and M44s are also good from what I heard so don't take my word for it.

>>518744

Anything that is/was a sniper tend to be accurate. Its the guns idiots mistreated are the ones that can't hit shit.

>>518278

I bought for 50

A good shape nugget last year

Gonna git some durr

I know the guy though, you should try getting the favor of crazy old men with many many funs

>>518743

Last one I bought was brand new for $345, but the guy was trying to get rid of his dad's old guns. I knew it had never been used because it was still coated in cosmopolitan in all the right place All the old Soviet weapons are getting expensive, because the surpluses are beginning to shrink and people realize there aren't infinite amounts of them any more.

>>518757

Sad, so you think a Norinco with a messed up stock and wear and tear and a bolt carrier that needs polished is worth $240? Its not great condition. Maybe average. Looked like strong rifling and a probably decent shooter though.

>>518758

Is it an actual Norinco or a Type 56? If its the latter 240 is an alright price for it given none of them came over looking fresh.

>>518780

Shit son, that thing hasn't been fucked with too much. I'd take it considering a new stock isn't much.

>>518783

Unless that's one of the few variants actually made to take magazines, it means the mag well has been fuck with horribly, including some welding and grinding. I looked into it when I got my SKS.

>>518789

I'd never actually seen a steel duckbill before, didn't think they existed. They're pretty fucking swell.

>>518303

>>518305

>slow as dirt board with months-old threads

<MUH GENERAL THREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADS

Fuck off and die. Especially being about Mosins, this is a topic that generates a lot of discussion, more than enough to not need to be in some shitty general meant for questions that are done in one response.

>>>/cuckchan/

>>518318

You are 100% on point. I've never understood /k/'s obsession with milsurp bolt action rifles aside from the fact that they were once unbelievably cheap. The era of the Sub-$100 Mosin is long gone and the era of Sub-$300, good condition milsurp bolt actions appears to have drawn to a close as well.

The concept of paying more than $200 for any Mosin (except for ultra-rare examples that are more museum pieces than something that should be regularly shot) is craziness IMO. While the nature of a rifle designed for military use implies superior durability compared to rifles designed for sporting use, I don't think the gap is anywhere near as large as people here make it out to be. Not only that but many of the features which built the Mosin's reputation for peasant-proof indestructibility also make it shit for use in a modern context. It was cheap to make, durable enough that conscripts couldn't damage it even if they tried, and accurate enough to be effective with coordinated fire from a group of peasant soldiers.

All the things that made it a great rifle for militaries with a surplus of men but strapped for cash also make it suck as a rifle for an individual. The trigger is garbage (gritty, inconsistent, more like a lever that eventually makes the gun go bang) because it is just about the simplest design possible. The loose tolerances create life-threatening issues like the notorious stuck bolt that occurs after a few rounds heat it up (that's not a problem when your comrades can keep up the volume of fire but it's a catastrophic failure for the lone rifleman). The parts which were designed for ease of manufacture lead to limitations like the straight bolt handle introducing unavoidable compromises in any attempt to mount optics to the rifle.

Sure, a budget Durr rifle like the Savage Axis may not be 100% soldier proof, but it's not like the average /k/ommando is going to abuse a Mosin to the point that would have broken a sporting rifle. You can pick up several .308 sporting rifles in the same $350-400 range as a good Mosin or Mauser. Mount a budget scope to it and you have a rifle that is demonstrably superior in every way to the Mosin outside of historical prominence and also cheaper to shoot than a Mauser for just ~$50 more.

Don't get me wrong, I love shooting fireballs out of my M44 but I also got it for $20 (a friend bought one of the 10 rifle crates for $300 back when those were a thing and cut me a deal). As fun as that plinker is, a budget Durr rifle is actually useful for shooting things besides paper and no one is paying $30/rifle these days.

>>518857

Any mosin is going to be good enough for deer hunting as long as the barrel is good.

But yeah, I have a Type 53 I got from a former friend for maybe $80 or $60, I don't remember exactly and its a great fun gun I would take hunting if I still hunted and shot it a fair amount and sighted it in. You don't need optics when hunting. You really don't, and in fact many times when I was younger a scope was more of a hinderance than anything. Most shooting of game is under 200 yards and often within 100 yards where I live. PA is a pretty hilly place with thick underbrush if its not trimmed.

Honestly even for $300 I can't really think of off the top of my head any other guns that would be good for hunting and worth the price. Many of the cheaper hunting guns around this price are trash, with plastic trigger parts, poorly machined internals, and poor materials used like pretty much all Remingtons products I have seen. My Rem 7600s machining on the bolt is actually far inferior to my Chinese Type 53s machining.

The trigger isn't really that bad. Mushy until you get to a clean break but a VERY SMOOTH bolt and action. Chinese Mosins are known for this. I don't know exactly why but they are. All that said, a Mosin will outlast a cheap sporting gun and you don't need a scope to hunt.

I know Zastava was making Mauser action hunting guns sometime back and they exist but I think most of the good hunting guns are more expensive than $400. If you know any good hunting guns for that price list them. No plastic shit and no Remington plox.

There are a couple of things, functionally and aesthetically, milsurp rifles have going for them that modern sporting rifles lack.

Full length stocks and handguards are sexy; sporter stocks are ugly. This is admittedly subjective.

Modern sporting rifles lack bayonet lugs. You're probably never going to use one aside from range play and LARPing, but it's fun to have.

Most sporting rifles lack iron sights, relying on optics alone. Not only does this add to the cost of the rifle, it denies the opportunity to learn or practice one of the fundamental aspects of marksmanship; sight acquisition and alignment.

Most modern sporting rifles feed from a detachable single stack magazine. Milsurp rifles typically allow for stripper clip loading. This is subjective, but single loading through the action or removing and reloading a box magazine is a pain in the ass, and you're not going to carry around a bunch of five rounders innawoods. This is of course a non issue for the sporting rifle's primary purpose, durr huntin', because you're probably not going to fire more than one shot anyway.

So then, why does no company make a modern production "military style" bolt action rifle? Because the market wouldn't support it. A quality bolt action rifle retails for, let's say, $700-$1000. For that price, you could go out and have your pick of any milsurp rifle on the market. When the price of a pristine nugget reaches $1200, then maybe you'll start seeing new production, but only in limited quantities for the most iconic rifles, in the manner of cowboy action guns today.

Polite sage because delete-and-repost to fix a typo.

>>518273

>falling for the moist nugget meme after it became merely that: a meme

There are better alternatives for the same price nowadays anon

>>519460

>ruger 10/22, Remington 700, AR

These are mostly the reasons I am going for the Mosin, admittedly I might consider another rifle after this thread, but I've shot 10/22s forever, I have a 22-250, I've shot modern synthetic 25-06s and 30-06s for even longer than a 22, and an AR pattern rifle just doesnt interest me at all, I've seen so many. I like the old bolt-actions and a full size round to throw, and I would be mostly OK with maintenence of such a rifle (within reason)

>>519481

I used to think that too about the AR. Well if you are deadset on a milsurp rifle I would highly recommend a Mauser or Enfield over the Mosin. .303British is no joke, and the Mauser is a nearly perfect gun. But if you get the Mosin I hope you enjoy it more than I did.

>>519460

>boo hoo you have to clean it off and get a scope to hit something

Maybe you should just git gud.

>>519460

Mosin was my second gun (if you don't count heirlooms) and while I agree it may not be the best first gun, as a leaf who still gets 54r and 39 on the cheap, it's one every owner should get, hell Canadian Tire sells them for $179 ($143 USD) already cleaned, unmodified, with bores in great shape. The only time it gets a little pricey is if you want to buy a 91/30 with a repro scope already mounted, price goes up to $700 ($561 USD).

Granted, I know Americans have import restrictions driving up the price, but if you live in Cananda, just get one, they won't be inexpensive forever.

>>519551

Correction: Actually they're $279 now, bought mine a while back.

>>518273

>Polish m44 for $255

Staked bedding screws, staked front sight, an a standard single stage trigger.

>>520043

>m44 for $255

fucking where

>>518326

>a five shot bolt action rifle in a decently high caliber for under 100 bucks is a waste of money

If you sincerely think that a mosin was a waste of money 10 years ago before the prices shot up to shit, then you truly are a toddler.

I bought several for around 90 bucks around 2008, and I still have a decent stock of 7.62 as well.

Been a year or two since I got a chance to shoot them, but it looks like Wolf still sells it for 6-7 bucks for 20 rounds.

>>518273

They might not be as cheap as they used to be, but I would try any gun trading site before you head on down to an actual dealer looking for one.

You're more likely to find someone desperate for cash and get a steal.

Just avoid assholes trying to sell some restocked sporting POS for 400-500 bucks because they thought it would bring the value of the gun up.

>>519551

I somewhat agree, but in the US there are milsurps that are just plain better in every way except there's no cheap surplus like 54r

>>520987

Question, were you using spam tin stuff or the heavier 180gr commercial ammo for I've found the heavier stuff tends to shoot a tad bit high.

I bought one last year from classic firearms for $185 + tax/ship/ffl fee. It was the bog standard, most common variant (minimal cool quirks) and also the only one in stock. I'm happy with it.

It is stamped 1943 and all 4 serial numbers (incl. bayonet) match. It spent last few decades in a Ukrainian arsenal (based on stock marking) and was eventually exported to US and sold by CF.

I had to clean the cosmo, it wasn't "covered in it" but you could definitely see the yellow tint on working surfaces. I just disassembled the bolt and put it in a big cheap pot, submerged with water, and boiled for a few minutes. This made a stink but it went away after 1-2 days. The cosmoline bubbled up to the top. I then fished out and dried the parts. The barrel I took out of the stock and left in the summer sun. Cosmoline dripped out. Remaining trace cosmo was removed by wiping with turpentine. First time I did a very poor job (first time ever cleaning cosmo) so I'd get sticky bolt every 10 rounds. I wiped with turpentine again and it was fine. The stock still sweats some cosmo after getting hot.

Rifle seemed zeroed already, at least 90% of deviation seemed to be due to my technique, which will probably take me years of practice to correct. It seems reasonably accurate, and I can see it being effective at up to 200 yrd. Supposedly these are good up to 700 m, but for that you need to get one of the snipers or other very good ones, which cost like $500+ (probably need to buy several too), and you have to be really good. Otherwise you ain't hitting shit.

I get sticky bolt after about 60 rounds over 1 hour. I hear that this is pretty average. That's about when I end my session anyway.

I had to buy a bunch of accessories:

>recoil pad because the metal butt plate bruised the hell out of my shoulder (seemed about as painful as 1600 fps 12 ga slugs)

>set of tools mainly for the headspace gauge

>clips

>single piece cleaning rod because my collapsible one was too short

The ammo is indeed cheap, but as I say above between the harsh recoil, heat (barrel gets very hot if you shoot fast and causes sticky bolt), inevitable sticky bolt after ~60 rds, I don't actually fire in large enough volume for ammo price to matter. My current ammo is brass case PPI at $0.7/rd, the really cheap ammo tends to have nasty shit like lacquer and requires a lot more cleaning. You kind of don't save enough money to justify the extra work.

It's a pretty neat rifle. Fun to shoot (although it's very rugged and basic, you can see the bolt move as you pull the trigger lmao) and play with. I like the fact that it's kind of a USSR artifact. Pretty heavy, and quite long too. I do want to try taking it deer hunting but I have a feeling it will be exhausting to lug it around. Not that expensive, but hardly "cheap" at >$100 especially considering the accessories you'll end up getting. At today's price in purely practical terms you can get better rifles, it's a decent rifle but there are better ones now. The nugget makes sense if you like the history and so on.

I would recommend getting it from ClassicFirearms if possible, they seem to provide reasonable consistency and good price. LGS quotes I got at the time were slightly higher. Buying privately, you can apparently get a good deal if you're good at appraising them, but I personally didn't want to deal with the bullshit of sniffing out a million hidden issues like a used car. Didn't seem worth saving what, $20-50?

>>521015

It's not mine, but it was with commercial Russian ammo (Barnaul).

Now I'm not sure whether it was with regular 148 gr or with BT (203gr) leftovers, so you might be right.

But it doesn't change the fact that the gun does shoot tighter with the bayonet on than off.

The cheapest Mosin for sale at my local Cabela's is $550 and that's for the worst of an already poor selection.

I know Cabela's is a meme for a reason but that kind of pricing is beyond the pale. They can't seriously expect to sell those, right? Are they priced like that as some sort of accounting scheme? (Buy inventory for $, price it as an unsellable $$$, claim $$$ in your books as assets, sell unsold inventory for $, write off losses that were never losses) They're so off the mark that fraud is about the only logical explanation I can come up with.

That or the average person really is so stupid that their inability to perform basic life tasks such as price comparisons is beyond my comprehension.

>>521118

that's stupid. For a few hundred bucks more you can get a PTR that shoot non-corrosive commercial 308 ammo that's cheaper than surplus corrosive x54r

>>521085

Standard FMJ barnaul is 180gr, their SP's are 203gr. I never did state anything about the status of the bayonet being lugged on or not, I just noticed the groups were high like when I use commercial ammo.

>>521086

Barrel harmonics is just recoil shaking the rifle, it's only important for very rapid fire (500rps+)

>>521118

$550 is way too high, that's the price of a sniper mosin or some other super rare version.

I looked at Cabela's maybe this winter and they had Mosins for $215 or so IIRC. No clue what condition.

Generally Cabela's has decent prices on firearms (and other things) in my experience. Although they were recently acquired, so maybe that is changing… But the $550 mosin is so absurd it seems more like it's a mistake or there's more to it.

>>521085

I think I prefer 140 gr for practice, 180's recoil is kind of painful and heats up the gun too much.

Also, do you guys all own clamps or are you just really good shots? Mosin is fucking hard to aim/shoot well, I don't see how your own inaccuracy wouldn't completely drown out any barrel harmonics effect from the bayonet. For instance >>520987 is a nice pic (and really neat handwriting btw) but, assuming he was aiming at the bullseye, he missed by a lot either way, in fact looking at how much he missed by.

So it seems about as accurate without the bayonet, except inaccurate in a different direction. I get similar results without any bayonet at all: The sans part is what happens if I jerk the trigger for a series of 5, the avec part is when I forget to compensate for the front sight post being too tall (the post is kind of fat on my mosin and it's hard to tell exactly where it's "tip" is when aiming). I would have to record dozens of shot and do some finicky statistics to tease out the rifle's inaccuracy and filter out my own poor marksmanship.

>inb4 airgat shooter

He's a Rhodie/SA

>>521242

The force of the striker moving home, of the primer detonating, expansion, striking the rifling, and of (bayonet variable) barrel mass inertially resisting movement via these recoil forces.

>>521248

The rifle I mentioned came with what was to me a strange zero point, the left point of the front post. Have you tried aiming with the edge? I think this would be effective on a blade sight too.

Use a pad. There's no reason not to throw some rubber between it and your shoulder.

>>521321

> force of the striker moving home, of the primer detonating, expansion, striking the rifling

Non factors.

>>518857

>I've never understood /k/'s obsession with milsurp bolt action rifles aside from the fact that they were once unbelievably cheap

It's like /o/ and the Miata. Something is really cheap and good, so it's widely recommended to newfags who are looking to break into a hobby at a slightly higher level. Over time, it gets more expensive and less common, but it sticks around as a meme and people develop their own sometimes-irrational love for them (often as a result of it being their first PROPER gun/car/whatever), while the board as a whole still harps on the positive aspects.

The SKS was the same way (grab SKS, go innawoods), but the prices spiked faster. Between that and the higher initial price and more costly ammo, newfags gravitated towards the Mosin. I bought my SKS in 2012 for $270 after lurking /k/ got a year, went to the LGS with a friend who was also lurking /k/ and bought a $180 Mosin. Neither of us regret it, they're great guns and a lot of fun to shoot. The unique flair of something that old was a great motivator to get into the hobby, as opposed to some boring fudd-grade bolt action.

>>521322

>No such thing as