/islam/ - 8ch Masjid

I've only heard of the first group, but don't they have their own extra prophet? Islam has the idea of the Seal of the Prophets, where we won't get any more prophets after Mohammad (PBUH). They'd be considered heretics in the same way that the Ahmadis are.

NoI beliefs are pretty fun to look at. White people are devils made by an evil scientist, apparently. One good thing to come out of them is that they spread the idea of Islam in the US. People would be drawn in by NoI and then stick to mainstream Islam instead.

all kuffar

Warith Deen Muhammad exposed his father Elijah Muhammad, he said "he was a good man, but a false prophet." And he led most of the NOI to Sunni Islam, following the lead of Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali. Farrakhan was briefly Sunni but then apostatized and re-created NOI.

Gaddafi was a friend of Farrakhan and funded some of their temples. That was the only connection Farrakhan had to Islam and it wasn't good since Gaddafi was a hadith rejector.

>>24850

From what I have seen, they go farther from real Islam with each group. The NOI is the closest group to true Sunni Islam. The Five Percenters are a break-off group from the NOI, founded by Clarence 13X, who changed his name to "Allah the Father" and taught that black people are truly gods, just as how NOI teaches that white people are the devil.

The Moorish Scientists believe that African Americans are descended from the Moors. They have a book called the "Quran," but it's not the true Quran. It's mainly plagiarized from the Aquarian Gospel of Isa bin Maryam Christ. I believe the Moorish Scientists come from before the NOI, so they had no knowledge of Islam and pretty much made it up based on what they thought was true.

>>24849

We don't honestly know. Allah guides whom He wills and leads astray whom He wills. We are guided to the right path, but all of us stray from time to time. We can only hope to do that which is right and die with Allah on our lips.

>>24850

>One good thing to come out of them is that they spread the idea of Islam in the US.

I actually never thought of that before, but it's true. Before the Nation of Islam came into popular culture, all most Americans knew of Islam was from Bugs Bunny cartoons and movies like "Road to Morrocco". The Barbary Wars were long over by the 1960s, but the NoI brought Islam back into the culture of the US. Huh … interesting.

nigger

>>24862

Gee, you added so much to the conversation …

I personally know many Nation of Islam members that consider themselves sunni they make their salats and do the 5 pillars like a sunni… i also know other Nation of Islam members that are still stuck on the ways of Elijah Muhamad..

Moorish Science encompasses much more than what is stereotyped… and many moors also consider themselves sunni and make salat hajj etc…

The members of these groups are often better brothers then some of the overseas brothers that come here and sell alchohol and etc… can't judge some of these members by the official doga of their organizations each member hs there own conclusions

Any videos that show what they do?

>>24861

>We don't honestly know.

Uh, yes we do.

>>24914

Not really. Someone could live their whole lives in disbelief but recant on his deathbed and declare his faith. Unless you're there for that moment, you don't really know.

It's also important to remember that Allah is the judge, not us. We can guide others to the right path, but we are not the judge of their eternal life. We can assume based on our limited knowledge, but we don't really know for sure. Allah knows best.

>>24915

>conversion right before death

Not according to sunan tirmidhi and Quran when Pharoah doesn't believe until he is about to die.

The best we can hope for is someone secretly reverted and kept it hidden out of fear.

>>24916

Well, to be fair, Pharoah was a pretty special case. Can't really be compared to some online fedora tipper who's just trying to be edgy.

>>24915

You're statement doesn't answer OPs question at all.

If you die as a believer of the NOI then you're going to hell. If you "recant on your deathbed" then obviously you are no longer apart of the NOI therefore this question is not in relation to you. Pretty simple.

>>24926

The only people we know for sure are in Hell or Paradise are those specifically named by the Prophet or by Allah.

>>24927

Yeah, and? Allah and the Prophet have both said kuffar go to hell. NOI are kuffar, they are "for sure" going to hell.

Not sure what your end game is here. Really strange to be honest.

>>24929

My point is that we don't know. If we look at someone, we should not say "They are going to Hell!" like the trinis do. We should help guide them on the right path, rather than condemn them.

Allah is the judge, not us.

I think we all agree that we can not say specific people will go to hell, unless texts have made that clear, eg in the case of Abu Lahab.

>>24930

>My point is that we don't know.

No, we do know. In it's current ideological form the NOI believes that Wallace Fard Mohammed was God incarnate. They believe that Elijah Mohammed was the final messenger of Allah. They believe that 24 black "scientists" wrote the Quran and the Bible. And that's just to start off.

Are you seriously telling me you don't know if belief in things like is kuffir or not????

To be a member of NOI you need to believe in that. So if you die as a member of the NOI you are going to hell because you are a kafir.

>We should help guide them on the right path, rather than condemn them.

Uhhh… what bigger help is there than saying "look pal, all the stuff you believe in is going to land you in hell. You need to stop."

>Allah is the judge, not us.

This is such nonsensical logic. You are aware Allah and his Prophet have outlined a number of punishments that we need to enact of individuals that commit sins. We need to judge these individuals 1st before we find them guilty.

As an example look at what the Prophet said

>“It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).”

So how are we meant to enact these punishments by judging them and finding them guilty if only Allah judges?

Allah and the Prophet have outlined how judge people. We judge them based on what they have said, not based on our own opinions. And in that case it is valid to judge someone if you can back it up based on the words of Allah.

>>24931

Allah has outlined countless times in the Quran that kuffar go to hell. Allah has outlined what are the characteristics of a kaffir. With that knowledge we can easily say "If X believes in such and such then they are a kaffir, they are going to hell if they die with these beliefs".

It's really not that hard. I don't understand the mental gymnastics going on here.

>>24932

>Are you seriously telling me you don't know if belief in things like is kuffir or not????

I am aware that is kufr, but I have no power to determine whether or not someone goes to Hell.

>look pal, all the stuff you believe in is going to land you in hell. You need to stop

Spoken like a true Baptist.

>And in that case it is valid to judge someone if you can back it up

I disagree.

We cannot base our actions on opinions or appearances. Remind yourself of the prostitute who entered Jannah because of the small deed of giving water to the thirsty dog, and the story of the pious monk Barseesah who ended his life in prostration to Shaytan. Looks can be deceiving, so know that only Allah is All-Aware of what is in the chests of mankind, and we do not have the right to say who is a good Muslim or a bad one. The Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “I have not been ordered (by Allah) to search the hearts of the people or cut open their bellies.” (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim) In another incident when Usama ibn Zayd radi Allahu anhuma killed a man though he had confessed that there is no deity worthy of being worshiped but Allah, claiming that the man had said so out of fear of weapon, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him observed: “Did you tear his heart in order to find out whether it had professed that or not?” (Reported by Muslim)

>>24933

Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has gone astray from His way, and He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided. [68:7]

>>24933

>if they die with these beliefs

Yes if but that's the point. We can not testify that that person is in the hellfire unless explicitly said so in the texts. We say that kuffar will go to hell. The legal ruling is that they died as kuffar unless known otherwise, so they would not be given a muslim burial, for example, but no one has said that we should say so-and-so will be in hell now for all eternity.

>>24934

>I am aware that is kufr, but I have no power to determine whether or not someone goes to Hell.

"You" are not determining whether they go to hell. Read the Quran, read the word of Allah and see who Allah has said will go to hell. Allah has said Kuffar go to hell.

>Spoken like a true Baptist.

My comment is basically found in some form or another multiple times throughout the Quran. I guess you think the Quran is "spoken like a true Baptist" as well?

>

>We cannot base our actions on opinions or appearances.

Read my post. Look what I said

>>24932

>not based on our own opinions

I said very clearly said that.

Answer this question. Allah and the Prophet have outlined punishments that we need to enact of individuals that commit sins. How do we carry out these punishments if we can't judge them guilty of these sins?

>>24934

>Remind yourself of the prostitute who entered Jannah because of the small deed of giving water to the thirsty dog,

The prostitute was a Muslim.

>And the story of the pious monk Barseesah

Lool. Have you even read the story? It actually proves my point. Barseesah committed kufr and was executed. So he was JUDGED to be a kaffir and killed because of it. Case and point.

>>24936

I never said "so and so" will be in hell for ever. I never named an individual person.

I said the NOI has kufr beliefs and IF you die with these beliefs you will go to hell. That is 100% a fact.

>>24938

>I never said "so and so" will be in hell for ever. I never named an individual person.

Yes I know, and that was my point, this discussion is not necessary because everyone's talking about different things.

>>24937

>found in some form or another multiple times throughout the Quran

You could cite those sources, I assume. I pretty much know what you're going to cite, but it's going to be cited out of context.

We are not the judges of man's iniquity. We can punish a criminal for committing a crime, but we do not get to determine eternal punishment or reward.

The person you're looking at and saying "you're going to Hell!", I'm looking at and saying "come stand next to me and see all that Allah has given you." When you condemn someone to Hell, you're basically claiming to be Allah.

>>24938

>IF you die with these beliefs you will go to hell.

That's a pretty big "if" and isn't something you or I can know. It's a supposition, but not a fact. You can tell a kid, "If you eat too much candy, you'll get sick." but you really have no way of knowing that since it's individual to the kid.

>>24939

I think of it as an exercise in academics. It shows some of the differences in schools of thought. We're Muslims, not a hivemind.

>>24940

>I pretty much know what you're going to cite, but it's going to be cited out of context.

Ok. Bye.

>>24942

Well, that didn't take much.

>>24943

Yeah I lost interest quick when the other party I'm in a discussion is doesn't read my posts and is in fact dismissing future posts before I've even made them.

For someone that sees this as an "exercise in academics" you're massively ignorant to the etiquette of a debate/discourse. Seems like you're just interested pleasuring yourself over your own posts.

>>24941

You're right, I shouldn't have said it wasn't necessary.

>>24944

I wasn't aware we were debating. I thought it was a conversation.

They're black supremacists. They believe the Moors in Andalusia were negroes, and not Arabs and Bedouins (and of course, the vast majority of that inhabited Al Andalus being indigenous European Iberian people). Their entire schtick is WE WUZzery - they use the labels and some of the aesthetic of Islam as some kind of perverse tribal identity. Don't ask me why - their ancestors were most likely pagans, not Muslims. Lots of their 'brothas' were enslaved by Arab Muslims, so it's doubly strange why they'd choose Islam.

It's a horrific mockery of "Islam", it hurts to say the two in the same breath. It's not even like the syncretism in places like the Caucasus. There's nothing organic about it, it's a racist political ideology that hates white people and believes every other race to be subservient.

I spoke about this in another post but if Louis Farrakhan really wanted to convert people to Islam he wouldn't call for the deaths of white people and would not preach Scientology on the side. He is clearly just a charlatan that should be ignored.

>>24855

Yes and Gaddafi was also addicted towards cocaine among a thousand other things.

>>24862

lets be civilized here

>>24947

This is also true and pretty ironic they preach black supremacy when Muhammad (PBUH) was an Arab. Also the fact that some of them forgo their "slave names" while totally ignoring the fact that blacks are still enslaving each other in west africa.

I am a registered Moorish-American Muslim and use my Moorish-American status as a way to live my everyday life as a Muslim (dress, diet, talk, interact, etc).

I make my five daily salaat on time and many of my brothers do the same as well…

shahada, sawm, zakat, havent made hajj yet… some siblings have made hajj all siblings and parents registered Moorish-Americans as well it is much deeper than just id cards and trying to get over on the system

do not let those youtube moors and unstudied NOI members fool you all into thinking that we are all shirk committing deviators that reject quran and sunnah..

However… I cannot speak for those shirk committers. as i am not one of them I do know that there are many out thee I am blessed to have a studied family that has preserved their deen

>>24849

Those aren't islam, those aren't even religions, those are political cults.