/fit/ - Fitness, Health, and Feels

fuck off tbh

>>129622

>>>/suicide/

>>129622

Veganism is like aids, faggots trying to give it everyone.

e s t r o g e n

anti-veganism is a topic shills are scared about because if people eat healthier big pharma gets billions of dollars less in profit every year from medical bills and prescription drugs.

>manly men must eat the worst most junky shit food

>little vegan faggots eat their pussy vegetables

their game is 1950's peer pressure

>>129695

yea enjoy your milk and beef with added hormones, totally ignore milk comes from pregnant female cows.

enjoy your man tits anti vegan

Thousands of years of meat eating humans can't be wrong faggot, fuck off.

>>129715

weak retort tbh

>>129622

I learned that humans are ominvores in 1st grade.

>>129714

>>129715

If the animals are fed soy, their meat/milk has estrogen in it; otherwise, it does not. It's that simple. And considering most vegetarians get their protein from soy directly which is astronomically worse, it's a non-argument. We have a nutritional demand for animal tissue, no matter how much of a faggot you want to be about it.

>100% grass-fed beef/dairy/lamb

>wild-caught seafood

>game meat

Has no estrogen and is extremely healthy.

>heritage pork

>pastured poultry/eggs

Probably has been fed some or a lot of soy, and thus has some estrogen, and that's unfortunate. If you want to get around it, raise the animals yourself or find a local farmer that actually doesn't feed soy. That being said, heritage/pastured animals are supposed to forage in the grass eating bugs and stuff, so they should have less estrogen than factory farm meat.

Whatever you do, never eat soy or flax. Unless you're a female that is not currently or soon to be pregnant with a baby boy, I guess.

vegan pill = estrogen pill

>>129716

>>130320

Archeological findings do find us to be omnivorous. Meaning we can choose to eat animal sourced foods, or we can choose to go without. In fact we know of many civilizations that lived free from these foods. Although on the contrary to choose not to eat a certain amount of plant foods would mean death to the human and degenerative health over time. As hundreds of nutritional elements in plant sourced foods are required by the various functions of the body. Nothing about our biology suggests yet in even modern day science that humans -require- a single calorie from animal sources. Not chemically, not physiologically, not psychologically, not in any form. In fact there is no known species that requires both.(are you implying there are obligate omnivores?) Whether one does so is ones own choice. One could argue ones personal right to do so, but what we cannot do is argue ones right not to do so.

>>130322

>soy

Implying soy is a constituent of a vegan or vegetarian diet. I understand your point, and I agree that many wrongly consider soy especially gene-splicing as safe anywhere near foods especially when scientific studies have made it very clear our food speaks and edits or dna real time. We're playing a dangerous game.

>nutritional demand

Every health institution in the USA that I'm aware of purports properly planned vegan and vegetarian diets as being healthful and adequate for all stages of life and development as well as pregnancy. And that's impressive considering that the usa arguably has the most stake in animal ag.

>extremely healthy

Compared to what? Most plant sourced foods have several to a hundred times the nutrient density of meat dairy or eggs. It honestly depends on what you're comparing to. Take broccoli out of a /fit/izens diet and watch his gains stagnate. Why? Because we require 2.6 milliequivilents of potassium per gram of protein, your stores will deplete so fast you'll be begging for that broccoli back. In fact you can't hold onto muscle mass without it either. I could list hundreds of instances of requirements of plants for the function and use of animal protein, but it would be a waste of my time. You can show me studies and research that show the use of these foods by the body and I would agree with that study 100% in almost all cases. But what I cannot do is ignore the fact that the RIGHT plant foods do it better, more efficiently, and support a healthier homeostasis, and balance within the body that animal foods simply cannot compete with. And even if these foods are proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be equally as healthy in a balanced diet, we still do not -need- them in our diet, as that is already a proven scientific fact according to the people you claim to get your information from. "It's a non-argument."

>>130334

>As hundreds of nutritional elements in plant sourced foods are required by the various functions of the body

Organ meat is the food with the most nutrients so you can get all your nutrients without ever touching a single plant

>Every health institution in the USA that I'm aware of purports properly planned vegan and vegetarian diets as being healthful and adequate for all stages of life and development as well as pregnancy. And that's impressive considering that the usa arguably has the most stake in animal ag.

I hope you are enjoying your (((recommended))) 50g of protons a day. Your body must be massive with those hiuge amounts.

>>130342

>What, you mean GMO's, or all foods?

All foods. Gmo's being the ones of most concern

>Cannot be trusted.

When convenient for you apparently.

>Not eating meat during pregnancy is child abuse and will give you a miserable, low test manlet, guaranteed.

That is simply not true in any sense. The science makes it very clear in fact vegans and vegetarians score higher in testosterone and it's funny you say that because in fact in many cases those raised vegetarian or vegan are taller as well.

>eskimos

This has been spread like a game of telephone but holds little basis in fact. They have concluded that they had 10 yrs shorter life expectancy, more health issues, abnormally high mortality due to cerebrovascular strokes, double the mortality overall, and same amount of CAD. Eskimo mummified remains have shown without exception hardened arteries throughout the body especially in the brain heart and limbs. This would have made sense considering the extensive amount of potassium necessary to absorb fats properly. They also had 10-15% greater bone deficit due to the calcium necessary to keep their blood stable. (Calcium from bones used by the body to create phosphate to keep our alkaline ph level, carnivores have acidic blood while in all known species the ph tips the scale towards the most crucial food for the organism. Why would we so inefficiently choose to make our organism work so hard at every meal?)

>Why are all vegans/vegetarians skinny beta manlet cucks?

There are now champion power lifters, world class athletes, olympians, and more that are adopting the vegan diet or have been vegan most of their lives. Since vegetarians and vegans only make up 5% of the population and most adopt to live a normal lifestyle they simply maintain a healthy weight. There are simply too few that decide to become ironmen or olympians.

>protein

If you use an application like cronometer you will be hard pressed to make a vegan meal that does not contain all required amino acids and proteins as long as you are meeting your macros. In fact all plant foods contain 6-20% of the RDA or more from protein so unless you try and eat 3000 calories of only carrots and iceberg lettuce or something. We require 6% of our daily calories from protein according to RDA so not meeting this is an impossibility really. Now if you're an athlete you could consume "muh black beans" as we have historically consumed all kinds of legumes, lentils, chickpeas, etc etc. Many civilizations utilized a high protein grain, such as the inca warriors and quinoa, almost all civilizations ate porridge or oatmeal almost as if they knew it contained a full amino acid profile, incredible assortment of minerals and nutrients, as well as all b vitamins in concentrations much higher than any animal product. Even all fruits contain 5-10% calories from protein. Liquid amino acids my friend. And this is the case for most plant sourced foods honestly, the concentration in meat always pales in comparison. Also the human body creates it's own creatine as our physiology again, reflects that we are predominantly omnivorous, meaning we can survive and thrive on only plant based foods like fruit, berries, nuts, seeds, potatoes/tubers, root veg, vegetables, greens, herbs, spices, etc etc. But choose to eat small amounts of animal sourced foods, but again, detriment to the body will occur if nutritional needs are not met while excess is being consumed of said foods. In this situation if your liver, kidneys, pancreas, and gallbladder become weakened and damaged due to the taxation of consuming excess protein, saturated fat and chemical laden junk foods you will have issues with creating it on your own not to mention a host of many other problems.

>omega-3

We would have gotten more than enough from greens. Although Nuts and seeds are also a very high source. Historically all civilizations had a favorite source of omega 3 and wasn't always greens. For example the mayans and aztecs were incredibly fond of chia seeds.

>Why do vegans suffer neurodegeneration?

Every study I've seen has shown a prevention of brain inflammation, slowed aging of the brain, antioxidation, free radical damage prevention, memory improvement, and literally one study said "side effects were improvement of health in other areas". The worst side effect of the vegan diet.. was improved health elsewhere.. lol Is there a statistic or study you could provide?

>canines

Our CINOs render us no more equipped for hunting, killing, and eating prey than our equally unimpressive fingernails, our comparatively weak jaw muscles, and our broad, flat incisors, all of which reflect our anatomical kinship to other frugivores.

If you examine any related species to the human even the species of apes most alleged to consume meat on a daily basis still consume 90% or more of their calories from non animal sources. This is not to argue we should not consume meat, but to say we scientifically KNOW we can live without it if we so choose.

>>130346

Virtually impossible not to meet RDA of protein given you are meeting your daily calorie intake. Organ meat is incredibly inefficient given how taxing it is on the body. The most nutrients? This couldn't be any further from the truth. Get any health metric application and you will find non animal sourced foods of all kinds destroy such inclination. Choose to cut out non animal foods tomorrow and you will die within days.

Also, on a plantbased diet your gains will be more dense, you will have a non fatty lean musclemass. Ever wonder why some people who appear leaner can outlift bigger guys? It's the leanness and quality of the muscle. I might hunt for it but there is also a video of a vegan beating bodybuilders in arm wrestling. It's juvenile, but it makes a point.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/20/15-vegan-bodybuilders-proving-that-you-can-be-meat-free-and-strong-5349931/

>>129716

>>129637

>>130322

The word faggot sure is being thrown around a lot for people that would probably drink bull semen for extra protein if the ag industry told them to

>>130368

I'd eat bull balls.

>>130373

Why did people start eating meat?

>>130371

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-b4smRrLF8

I have vivid memories of my gag reflexes kicking in and puking all over the table as a kid. Being forcefed meat, I would sit at the table for hours it was so difficult trying to swallow. All of my siblings were like this actually, we would sneak to the trashcan and spit it out

>>130373

>And mounds that we're better off without

Like what? That's completely retarded, we have adapted to eat meat and dairy, especially cooked meat, which is what makes us human in the first place.

>muh meat industry

I could say the same of the vegetable industry. More people go vegan, more vegetables get consumed as more rely on them for calories.

I don't even want to re-read or response to half of that shit, you can't possibly unironically be a veganigger. Eat some steak, ground beef, fish, shellfish, eggs, chicken, turkey, pork, pork, more pork, bacon, and some pork, you fucking pussy. I'm done.

>>130374

The truth; the real science that will slowly start to come out(with the obvious objection of big industries) is that these were dirty fuel only consumed for our survival. Yes we have countless evidence of humans eating animal products, but we also have equally as much evidence of civilizations and tribes that didn't and had equally as large of brain mass or any other supposed benefit or argument is claimed by modern media, and I say media because you don't see as much adamant "We came from carnivore cavemen" mentality in the science.

Notice why all of these vegan companies are being bought for millions of dollars by big meat producers? And then continuing production as normal? And increasing with the demand as usual? Why is this happening? It's security. Because they know the science is too strong, you can only pay off so many scientists to botch studies. Of these studies I implore you to look yourself have titles that contradict the actual findings entirely. The fact is we are the wandering species of sapiens, we didn't know when our next meal was. Just because we ate something does not mean it's the optimum fuel. But we absolutely did not eat raw meat if we did it was rare and not very long it's very problematic and we don't possess the necessary traits to digest it or protect ourselves from the bacteria and so on. We cooked a lot of grains and carbohydrates, vegetables, and meats when available allowing us to eat a very high nutrient density. The animal products are not an optimal fuel we can test this empirically the vegan group will be phenomenally healthier than the vegetarian group and the vegetarian group healthier than the omnivore group every time.

When the scale tips, these companies will still be on top. What worries me is what's going to happen to the medical industry, many of the top causes of mortality are congruent across the world with the amount of animal products consumed.

One could argue it's not the increase in animal foods, it's the industrialized society, it's chemicals, it's this or that. Which I would respect completely and look into. All I can say is the evidence I've looked at personally is far too strong. I never wanted to be vegan, what started as an obsessive hobby/personal interest in medicine and biochemistry had me end up where I am.

Look into blue zones and the china study, if you think they are memes my apologies but you have to start somewhere, are easy to understand and follow, and are based on legitimate government and university funded research.

>>130376

Good arguments. At the end of the day I'm not the diet police. Eat what you want I guess, just trying to say you don't have to eat animal products if you don't want to.

>>130377

And post the studies concerning this.

>>130382

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826028

Related links on the side, you can also search for any topic this is the compiled works of thousands of scientists, the literal national library of medicine, they all use this same database. If the complete study isn't behind a paywall you can read the whole thing otherwise one option is to look for someone who makes a living from analyzing these works. Nutritionfacts.org has a channel on youtube where the nutrition and dietary studies are closely dissected. His google talk called how not to die compiles years of his work.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full

"The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and American Academy of Pediatrics agree: Well-planned vegetarian and vegan eating patterns are healthy for infants and toddlers."

http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers

https://www.cancer.org/healthy/eat-healthy-get-active/acs-guidelines-nutrition-physical-activity-cancer-prevention.html

"You don’t need to eat foods from animals to have enough protein in your diet. Plant proteins alone can provide enough of the essential and non-essential amino acids" -American heart association

(Go red for women is the official american heart association website)

https://www.goredforwomen.org/live-healthy/first-steps-to-prevent-heart-disease-and-be-heart-healthy/vegetarian-vegan-diet-heart-health/

Now, quite honestly I could do this all day but your response will probably just be that I'm cherry picking. If you just want me to do the work for you how will you ever know the truth? It's not like I expect everyone to be a dietition or scientist either but the problem is we cannot continue to put faith blindly into others hands. Especially with such an adamant and devout servitude. We all have a job to work this out ourselves, I applaud you for not believing what I have to say, that's what you should do, but then should you not question your own beliefs as well?

>>130382

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Approximately 2.5% of adults in the United States and 4% of adults in Canada follow vegetarian diets. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat, fish, or fowl. Interest in vegetarianism appears to be increasing, with many restaurants and college foodservices offering vegetarian meals routinely. Substantial growth in sales of foods attractive to vegetarians has occurred and these foods appear in many supermarkets. This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids, and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, use of fortified foods or supplements can be helpful in meeting recommendations for individual nutrients. Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate, antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than non-vegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. While a number of federally funded and institutional feeding programs can accommodate vegetarians, few have foods suitable for vegans at this time. Because of the variability of dietary practices among vegetarians, individual assessment of dietary intakes of vegetarians is required. Dietetics professionals have a responsibility to support and encourage those who express an interest in consuming a vegetarian diet. They can play key roles in educating vegetarian clients about food sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and any dietary modifications that may be necessary to meet individual needs. Menu planning for vegetarians can be simplified by use of a food guide that specifies food groups and serving sizes."

>>130383

I'm constantly reading the word fortified and supplements. Veganism is clearly not natural if you can't get all the required vitamins and minerals.

>cherry picking.

True, mainly because I see no reason as to why I need to eat a thousand pounds of nuts and beans everyday to ever hope to progress in my lifts. Would much rather eat the normal human diet that's kept our species alive. Or get into my neanderthal blood and just eat meat with some carrots and aspirin and stand in the snow with no clothes.

>>130385

They feed vitamins and b12 supplements to livestock, they fortify animal products across the board. Do you want me to find the numbers because I can but honestly there probably isn't anyone watching this thread so it's a waste of time. I haven't used a supplement in my life, but do you know how many supplements everyone around you uses? Think about it. how is the general health in American society?

>thousand pounds

You're being ridiculous. I eat two rounded meals a day, you want a nutrient analysis? I already explained all of this. The idea that we need these high amounts of protein are unfounded. Don't believe evidence you can see it yourself with your own eyes you know how many vegan bodybuilders make what I eat in a day's? They're just eating food off camera and i'm a shill for the american carrot society we only sold 17 trillion in sales last year and we're hungry for more. lol Come on man.

>>130386

>They feed vitamins and b12 supplements to livestock

These livestock probably live in the middle of the earth and are fed feces with the occasional grain or two. I'm not an advocate of the poor living conditions that these food-things live in, but I'm not going to stop eating the corpses of other more fortunate meat-things.

>Do you want me to find the numbers because I can but honestly there probably isn't anyone watching this thread so it's a waste of time.

Don't bother. I inject bull semen into my bloodstream, no mortal logic applies to me. I'm ascended beyond that. Statistics are mostly pointless to argue, there is simply too many variables to make one conclusion.

>how is the general health in American society?

Terrible, but not because of meat. Lots of unwanted chemicals in our water, food, and common day items. Vegans and vegetarians are obviously more passionate about food than the average person, so they would obviously know more about what they eat and drink. http://www.unz.com/jthompson/bacon-sandwich-hysteria/

>>130388

You're a funny guy but for the record the supplements aren't for them, it's for you. They feed them lots of supplements so that people that consume large amounts of protein and hate vegetables get their nutrients especially vitamin d and b12. It doesn't exist in animals in high amounts naturally, nor does vitamin d exist in milk in high amounts naturally either. Our bodies are supposed to make them on our own but we stay inside too much and the b12 that is supposed to blanket the earth is no longer there anymore due to a combination of modern society, chemicals, pollution, and even cleanliness in some opinions. Our digestive systems are too damaged to produce it anymore in half of people. What I also find comical; they suggest animal liver all the time for certain nutrients but the reason they have so much of these nutrients in their liver in the first place is from their supplements they were feeding them.

>>130391

I don't think you understand how animal bodies works. What you're describing is impossible

>>130391

Your diet had retarded your brain. When people point out that you can't successfully be vegan without added nutrients, supplements, etc and you say but but but what about how they also supplement animals, you reveal yourself. You imply it's impossible to live on a normal diet, meat and veggies, without supplementation which is blatantly false. Or do you think it's impossible for a human to live off the land without popping pills, like we always have?

Get fucked, cityboy.

>the anatomy of hervibores compared to humans.

Humans have sharp teeth for cutting meat AND dull teeth for grinding vegetation, while herbivores only have the dull ones. Done. We are "supposed" to eat meat.

Second point: the title of the video- are we DESIGNED to eat meat? No. We were not designed. The human ancestors who developed mutations that made them capable of eating meat survived better than the herbivorous ones, so here we are, and here they ain't. Meat eating humans are objectively superior or else we'd have the digestive and dental structure of herbivores. Go fuck yourself numale faggot.

>>130364

>zinc rich foods

>literally anything you can eat

wat