/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>782934

>should there not be a Christian guide?

Nope, your body is a temple, you will become more truly spiritual by not winnie the pooh it with shrooms. Try quitting all drugs for a time, and you will see how much you've missed, both of health, and of life.

>>782934

Dude, from personal experience, the Occam's Razor answer to your question is best: just don't do it. Period. It's not worth it. You are going to gain either nothing but delusion, or at best subconscious stuff that you will eventually come to on your own anyway. At worst, you're inviting contact with demons, prelest, psychological addiction, and, like myself, possibly permanently frying your brain in some fashion (I more than likely have to be on medication for the rest of my life to avoid hypnogoic/hypnopompic hallucinations.)

>Am I being retarded for thinking that I, a lousy sinner, have enough fortitude to resist demons when seeing them face to face when it is difficult for monks to?

To be more charitable: are you being reckless? Yes. You are playing with fire. Stop it before you get burned.

>>782934

Almost forgot this part:

>Is it a sin to use psychedelics?

Yes it is. Galatians 5:20 and other bible verses (Rev. 9:21; 18:23) includes the word pharmakeia, which is often translated as witchcraft or sorcery, but can also apply to drugs:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pharmakeia.html

Considering that shamans and the like throughout numerous cultures are notorious for the utilization of psychedelics, deliriants or dissociatives for their "spiritual"/"magical" purposes, conflating the two is quite logical:

https://www.eternallifeblog.com/pharmakeia-sorcery-bible/

>>782937

>>782938

Thank you for your responses. You're right its very unwise to trip. But then comes to question of specifically microdosing.

>>782946

The idea that treatment for psychological problems through drugs seems very silly to me. I can understand how seeking euphoria through drugs is sinful, but what of trying to ease depression? What of trying to heighten focus? Many foods have some psychological health benefits, should we cut out all those that effect our psyche?

I have to rely on microdosing on shrooms because if I go on for a while without it I begin to feel depressed. Microdosing specifically only has the benefits of lifting depression, increasing creativity, and expanding perspective. I don't notice any prelest whatsoever after microdosing.

I think if this is how you deal with and approach the bible (interpretations on manna, burning bush and also the fact you want to do drugs, whatever the dose) there is no need for you to worry about if this is a sin or that. You have a much greater, more basic problem.

>>782934

PLEASE ANSWER THE MICRODOSING PART SPECIFICALLY I REALLY WANT TO KNOW ALSO.

>>782962

The last article I linked in that post…

https://www.eternallifeblog.com/pharmakeia-sorcery-bible/

…specifically differentiates between taking drugs for legitimate health reasons, and taking them to get high or have an out of body experience (i.e. the former is fine; the latter is sin.)

>I have to rely on microdosing on shrooms because if I go on for a while without it I begin to feel depressed.

If this is the case, you've either developed a psychological addiction, or you have major depression issues that you should get treated with either therapy or legitimate medication.

its sinful to disobey civil authority in everything but sin, this bypasses every psychological arguement.

See: Romans 13, 1 Peter 2:13-17

Catechism of St. Pius X on the Fourth Commandment:

>9 Q. Whence comes the authority which rules Civil Society?

>A. The authority which rules Civil Society comes from God, who established it for the common good.

>10 Q. Are we under any obligation to obey the authority that governs Civil Society?

>A. Yes; all who form part of Civil Society are bound to respect and obey authority because that authority comes from God and because the common good so demands.

>11 Q. Are all laws imposed by the Civil Authority to be respected?

>A. Yes; in accordance with the command and example of our Lord Jesus Christ, all laws imposed by the Civil Authority are to be respected, provided they are not contrary to the law of God.

>>782977

I am studied in psychopharmacology. Therapy yes would help. There is no such thing as "legitimate medication". SSRIs work slightly better than placebo. If I ever elected to take them I would effectively be opting to make myself a zombie for the next couple of years. And did you not do a bait and switch? Im asking about psychological issues which are different than physical health issues. Even then it seems quite odd and out of place to consider someone who is taking medications for OCD or schizophrenia as a committer of "sorcery."

>>782997

I am technically not breaking the law in my psychedelic usage. As an anarchist at heart those passages physically hurt to read.

>>782975

What part do you mean? What do you wish for me to answer?

>>782971

Ouch. Hilarious but ouch.

>>783012

I'm thinking of starting microdosing in order to increase my fluid intelligence and to use it as a general nootropic/cognitive enhancer. I want this so I can solve and understand problems and concepts better.

>>782934

Why exactly do you wish to use psychedelics?

>>782934

You just missed the thread here about the super long thread on Twitter of this exact topic… https://twitter.com/WesternIdentity/status/1096758520467333120

Please don't do drugs, OP. The burning bush was just a real thing that God actually did (a miracle).

>>782977

>legitimate medication

like prozac? or Lexapro? if anything these SSRI's give the mine a portal to sin.

I have never felt the crazed feelings I felt when forgetting to take a dose of anti-depressants.

when there is wine and christ, christ resides within the weed and shrooms so well.

>>783012

>Ouch

what is so 'ouch' exactly? Im dead serious. You seem to take the bible quite randomly and not so serious. Why bother then what someone might consider sin?

Your question struck me as pretty ouch tbh. 'is mocrodosing ok, like when I dont see and talk to spirits?' Ridiculous! You might as well ask if its ok to only do touchy-touchy and not stick it in. You seem to be very aware of the incompatibility of being a christian and tripping on drugs. But still you seriously suggest that people in the bible who encountered God where tripping? And that God threw shrooms from heaven for his people?? Dude, more ouch is barely possible!! It amazes me how some people think but still see themselves as christians. Well its a pretty loose concept nowadays unfortunately.

Wont ever get or see a proper discussion on here.

Mods ban you and delete comments for any pro-usage talk.

Matthew 15:11

Most people on here have been brainwashed by DARE propaganda and hold close minded views towards harmless substances. As with any substance it depends on how you use it and what you do as a result. Smoking weed or using shrooms, acid is not sinful and I would make a case for acid/DMT actually being spritually beneficial depending on how you handle the trip (yes you can control where a trip goes).

>>783012

>There is no such thing as "legitimate medication". SSRIs work slightly better than placebo. If I ever elected to take them I would effectively be opting to make myself a zombie for the next couple of years.

I've experienced enough success stories of actual people in my life on SSRIs and the like living better lives, that you're judgement from being supposedly "studied in psychopharmacology" is coming into question.

>And did you not do a bait and switch? Im asking about psychological issues which are different than physical health issues. Even then it seems quite odd and out of place to consider someone who is taking medications for OCD or schizophrenia as a committer of "sorcery."

Did you not read the article all the way through? It clearly differentiated between just getting high/tripping/etc. and legitimate health concerns. Psychological health is a legitimate health issue. The article literally said nothing about people taking medication for OCD or schizophrenia as being commiters of witchcraft.

>I am technically not breaking the law in my psychedelic usage.

By technically, I assume you mean "by what is right in my own heart."

>As an anarchist at heart those passages physically hurt to read.

They hurt to read, because deep down inside you know they are true. I'm sorry, but being "an anarchist at heart," and being a Christian are not compatible. Christianity is ultimately about submitting to our one true Lord and King, Jesus Christ. Anarchy is like Communism, Fascism, etc: it sounds great on paper and in theory, but tends to fall apart or have at best subpar results in real life. Show me a great Anarchist empire/kingdom/nation/country, or show me an Anarchist community that isn't just a small run down glorified hippie commune. Found these so far:

According to this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_communities

apparently indigenous tribes count as "anarchy", which considering most tribes have such things a chieftains and councils, is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

Here's a list of "10 Anarchist Societies That Actually Worked":

https://listverse.com/2016/06/29/10-instances-of-anarchist-societies-that-actually-worked/

Notice that in each instance, said "Anarchist Society That Actually Worked" actually either eventually fell apart or was eventually conquered by a non-anarchist society, or sold out, or is just a hippie commune, or is a non-anarchist government with some anarchist tendencies (so I guess that's enough for it to "count" on this list.) The number 1 spot is literally just unoccupied lawless land…. Overall, a pathetic track record if you ask me.

>>783039

>I have never felt the crazed feelings I felt when forgetting to take a dose of anti-depressants.

Then you may have to take anti-depressants for the rest of your life, and not forget doses.

>when there is wine and christ, christ resides within the weed and shrooms so well.

>>783238

>Twisting Matthew 15:11 to advocate the usage of mind altering substances.

……..Lord have mercy. I'm starting to think >>783201 is right.

>>783318

Because he wanted a discussion and not an after-school DARE lecture or any other untold number of boomer facebook memes about "the devils lettuce".

If you're honestly comparing something like shrooms to meth you're arguing from not only ignorance but also dishonesty.

Literally every Christian philosopher, theologian, mystic, martyr and saint:

>God is Love; let go of worldly desires, pleasures and experiences and act in small ways towards the kingdom of God. Prayer is all you need.

Random people in the modern world:

>Love is God; indulge in worldly desires, pleasures and experiences and act in novel ways towards the kingdom of one's enlightenment. Prayer is old-fashioned—messing with your neurochemisty is the best way to know God.

>>783503

> i also feel like a pussy a bit cous i know people who trippin a lot and are fine.

Don't feel this way. People are different in terms of predilections and constitutions. My family has a history of mental illness (one aunt with Bi-Polar, and another with full blown schizophrenia) which is probably why I had such a bad reaction despite tripping less than some of my friends at the time (one of my ex-friends tripped everyday for a month on DXM, and only stopped after he was having delusions of receiving signals and communications from space aliens, and that a wizard was casting harmful spells on him from far away.)

In terms of getting better, after I went back to Christ, I had already been on just about every major atypical anti-psychotic and mood stabilizer out there, with my symptoms either made worse, the medication not working at all, or said medication giving me life debilitating side effects. Shortly after coming back to Christ, I got on a small dose of Klonopine three times a day and have completely stabilized and live a normal life free from hallucinations and paranoia. It might be as simple as that for you, or you may need something more.

Bottom line: go see a psychiatrist asap, and stop self-medicating yourself with stuff like Alcohol and LSD; this is literally making you worse in the long run.

>>783517

I was always discouraged of them and have hope that i take it myself or God will help somehow, but maybe this is the way.

thanks christanon, God bless you

>>783312

>They hurt to read, because deep down inside you know they are true. I'm sorry, but being "an anarchist at heart," and being a Christian are not compatible. Christianity is ultimately about submitting to our one true Lord and King, Jesus Christ.

There’s no contradiction there. Anarchy is simply not submitting to man made government and rule, which is exactly what you should do as a Christian.

>>783665

Romans 13, "Render unto Caesar…" etc. As long as a man-made government's laws are not violating the law of God, we are commanded to submit to them. Jesus's "Render unto Caesar.." speech is literally our Lord Jesus Christ commanding the Hebrews to pay taxes to a pagan king. Church institutions, communities and monasteries have hierarchical structures. Small indigenous tribes have chieftains, councils etc. In even the most stereotypically Hippie of communes, there are strong charismatic individuals who act in leadership functions that the community would descend into chaos without (can say this from personal experience as one who used to hang out with Hippies.)

At best, one can engage in mental gymnastics and take a position of "Anarchy is any society without a strong centralized governing authority." In spite of the fact in that in such instances, either individuals or tribal councils take up this centralized authority role, or said community decays into petty warring factions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Sturlungs

At worst, the idea of true Anarchy is childish and naive. Humanity, with the exception of very few outliers, is simply hardwired for hierarchy and authority. Sageing for off-topic.

>>782938

>Occam's Razor

Yes, because nominalism really worked out for us so well so far, now did it?

>>782934

You should definitely never trip alone and without guidance.

Having a friend or a guide is very important in case of a bad trip or overreaction in order so that he can call am ambulance.

That being said if you are spiritually prepared and focused, you should be fine.

>>783410

Do you deny the medicinal value of substances like psilocybin or cannabis?

>>783899

Psilocybin is especially dangerous. It’s like you want to be possessed or something.

>>783905

Its so dangerous that its been cleared for use to treat and in some cases, cure moderate to severe depression in people by the FDA in recent clinical trials…

Come on man, I'm willing to be open for discussion but if youre still of the mindset that what goes into the mouth can corrupt a man we're not going to see eye to eye.

>>783899

>medicinal value of substances like psilocybin or cannabis?

You know you can get the same benefits of this stuff by using Cannabidiol(CBD), without the intoxicating effects of Tetrahydrocannabinol(THC), right?

And most of the benefits of psychedelics can be done via micro-dosing, without, again, the tripping.

>>783911

We also have psychologists shilling for DMT.

Even without the use of Scripture, one can know by reason alone that it is sinful.

>>783926

>Junkies

>reason

>>783312

I never said it didn't work, I said it worked marginally better than placebos. And even when they do "work" what its doing is its making you a flattened out zombie. If you have serotonin issues just try taking 5-HTP first (DO NOT MIX SSRIs with 5-HTP). When SSRIs "work" its a complete facade. The person taking them cannot be depressed because they're disconnected from their own heart.

Also no, I am literally not breaking the law.

>>783665

This guy has the spirit of it down but the Bible makes it clear that the authority of man is from God but that's on its face ridiculous. Is the authority of the USA, those rapists and legislators of child murder, backed by God? This is something I really want to look into, any resources on this topic would be greatly appreciated! All Catholic references will be disregarded.

If it did turn out that God wills for me to submit to the authority of man then I will. Also for the record I have the heart of an anarchist but I am not one.

>>783318

Uhhhh I'd have to look into that. Also medicinal meth does exist. Its called Adderal.

>>783992

> I said it worked marginally better than placebos

……..

>And even when they do "work" what its doing is its making you a flattened out zombie.

>The person taking them cannot be depressed because they're disconnected from their own heart.

…… What I've personally seen of success stories is literally the opposite of what you say. People wanting to get out of their comfort zones more; a lifetime of PTSD being cured and no more going into rage episodes; people being no longer paranoid about ghosts or demons in their closet at night; being restored to normalcy rather than being a "zombie" as you described. I could understand your argument if you were talking about anti-psychotics, but when you say such things about SSRIs, it comes off as ill-informed at best, and paranoid at worst.

>Also no, I am literally not breaking the law.

If you are microdosing on shrooms in the U.S., you are more than likely breaking the law depending on what state you are in. Grow kits and spores are legal in most states, but usually for purposes other than psychoactive usage. And if the spore has grown to the point of becoming psychoactively viable, and you use it for those purposes, is that not possession?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_psilocybin_mushrooms

As for what you say here:

>This guy has the ….

Remember, Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" he was talking about paying taxes and obeying the laws of a pagan government. You're upset about the United States backing abortion? Pagan Rome allowed "abortions" by just dumping an already born child into a pit of other dead babies; sanctioned murder for fun via gladiatorial games; condoned sexual degeneracy that I won't even bother to go into, etc. The United States looks like a City on the Hill compared to pagan Rome. Still, as long as a law dictated by a civil government does not go against the law of God, it is to be respected by Christians (Romans 13.) Even in the mist of an evil government, part of our duty as Christians is to be as blameless and law-abiding as possible as part of our witness to others. God even granted authority to Babylon in order to punish Jerusalem, and Jeremiah even noted that the Babylonians were more sinful. But because of our knowledge of God, we are held to a higher standard by him. (Hebrews 12:5-11) Nevertheless, at the end of the day, when the civil law and the law of God are in conflict, the law comes first. (see Acts 5:24-32) I honestly fail to see how a civil law that strives to keep potentially addictive/abuseable and harmful substances away from most people, contradicts God's laws against pharmakeia and intoxication.

>>784094

*the law of God comes first.

My bad.

>>782934

if you're unsure if something is a mortal sin it is better to err on the side of safety, ask a priest or better, a theologian.

>>784240

I've heard that LSD can have some incredibly positive results for those suffering from addiction, and can even held completely remove it after a few hits. Other than that i can see no reasonable use for it other than that, however.

>>784240

>chopped off his penis

K Im never tripping ever again

>>784272

I wrote >>784240

I agree that it has uses. I think all illegal drugs should be studied and potentially put to use.

pharmakeia = sorcery

>>784246

You got that mixed up, a priest is the better one to ask than a theologian. An academic will be of little help in such a situation.

>>784820

That is correct. Sorcery back than heavily involved taking and abusing drugs (shrooms and the like) in order to obtain enlightenment. If the technology existed back than, the pagans would be using and abusing LSD and DMT like degenerates do today.

Embed related explains more.

The addictions drugs cause today is sorcery. Drug cartels use drugs to control people just like how pagan preists use drugs to control people. It is evil even if the names of old gods aren't invoked.

>>784240

>I knew a girl who took LSD. She was dumb before and made bad decisions. After, she was just as dumb and made bad decisions, only she believed she wasn’t because she was supposedly enlightened. My theory is over time this would cause her more problems because she’d be even less likely to recognize her flaws.

>Joe Rogan constantly talks about DMT and he doesn’t seem enlightened. He doesn’t come across as having special knowledge. I’ll say his show is very popular so many it had something to do with DMT, but I doubt it. He just seems kind of dumb.

Reminds me of this drug forum I used to be a part of. It was so pretentiously snooty that you literally had to write an essay on why you wanted to be a part of the forum and send it to the mods for approval. The "drugs are a source of secret knowledge and enlightenment and makes you more special than the normies" shtick was a major locus of the culture there.

So what was the internal culture of the board like once you got through their prestigious vetting process in order to be allowed the privilege of being able to interact with such enlightened individuals? A veritable dumpster fire of narcissism, pseudo-intellectualism, depression, mental issues, drama and high school popularity contest antics. I remember there was one particular mod who was not shy about calling people out on the ludicrousness of their delusions of grandeur, to the point where to this day, I sometimes ponder what he was doing there in the first place. I eventually left after being disgusted by what I was turning into by hanging out at that place.

Sage for slightly off-topic.

Jay Dyer and Owen Benjamin have experience with psychedelics and later turned to Christ, and describe their experiences with DMT as a form of communication with demons.

https://twitter.com/WesternIdentity/status/1096758520467333120

https://imgur.com/user/PSIDAR

>>782934

Hey man, a little late on this, but micro dosing is absolutely a sin and absolutely opening up spiritual gateways to malignant entities.

You're bargaining with the devil by saying "it's only a little bit" and playing with fire.

I've used all kinds of psychedelics from shrooms/LSD to DMT and even research chemeicals like 2-CI, and I can grantee you that they enslave people to demonic powers that want to wreck pain and madness at every possible place.

Free yourself from these chains anon, I believe in you.

Another reason not to trip: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder.

I'm still struggling to get rid of visual snow and auras from almost everything around me and serves as a constant reminder of my sin. You don't want to trip.

>>782937

>Try quitting all drugs for a time, and you will see how much you've missed, both of health, and of life

I can testify from experience that this is indeed true.

>>782962

>microdosing

The Bible calls us to be sober.

>>786785

>T. Self-transforming machine elf

>>786796

>The Bible calls us to be sober.

Jesus turned water to wine, my dude; what the winnie the pooh are you saying bro, lel. I know him and the apostles didn't get shitfaced, but they were NOT sober.

>>782934

>Is it a sin to use psychedelics?

Yes. God didnt gave human rationality do degrade it with chemical substances.

>Am I being retarded for thinking that I, a lousy sinner, have enough fortitude to resist demons when seeing them face to face when it is difficult for monks to?

More interesting question would be why would someone even want to have such experience in the first place? Talking to a demon would be as productive as flogging a river. Moresoever you outright answered your own question with that excerpt: You should be critical to any kind of such apparitions and have your mentor advising you. Just avoid it. Everything will be revealed after death anyways.

>>782934

A common answer on this board is that drugs count as witchcraft, because the word for witchcraft used in the Bible is the word we derived "pharmacy" from.