/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>767673

Do you mean bursting out and yelling "ooga chaka ooga chaka shamalama ding dong" like Pentecostals do?

>>767673

it would be quite disturbing to others, so yes.

>>767676

Yes. Is there an official Church statement about this?

>>767680

Yeah, it's incredibly rude to interrupt the liturgy. Furthermore, the way Pentecostals speak in tongues is a false doctrine. The way it happened in the New Testament required someone to interpret in the Spirit so ip others could understand the speaker. Pentecostals do not do this, they just ramble in in random noises that do not even have the grammatical structure of a language.

>>767680

If I recall correctly, the Church doesn't know of any modern documented cases of speaking in tongues.

99.9% of people claiming to speak in tongues are possessed by demons or faking it.

The entire point of the gift of tongues was to make it easier to spread the Gospel. If no one can understand a word you're saying you're doing it wrong.

>>767698

<The Spirit of Vatican II

How do I know the nibbas in this thread have never been around Charismatic Catholics?

They have their "prayer sessions" where they do "infusions of the Spirit", sing in tongues, use the usual Mass hymns, prophecize, etc.

They also have their own Mass, once a month I think.

Yes, the bishops are supportive of this. As for St. Paul's warning in 1 Corinthians, their response is "well, it doesn't bother anyone now".

Imagine my reaction when I saw people saying "I am Yahweh, and I love you dearly, my child" to a woman kneeling and crying, while the others are singing in tongues, and all of this is done in front of an icon of Pentecost that doesn't even get venerated.

Get your shit together, Catholics.

It is quite suspicious that of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues is the only one to have resurfaced in recent times. Not healing, not prophecy, not raising the dead—no, only speaking in tongues, which mostly resembles erratic emotions and random gibberish which someone else has to "interpret."

Also, see >>767698

If you were to come out in tongue during the liturgy—for which the correct predisposition is obedience and reverence—it would rightly be seen as deeply disrespectful. If the event were to actually interrupt the liturgy, however, it would be seen as actually diabolical. Indeed, the Holy Spirit would not disrupt the liturgy for the former is already present in the hearts of the faithful gathered for the Eucharist.

>>767717

This sort of nonsense is considered fringe in most parishes by my experience. There cannot be any honest effort to defend it.

>>767721

>This sort of nonsense is considered fringe in most parishes by my experience. There cannot be any honest effort to defend it.

I wish it were, but it's being advertised at many Catholic basilicas and churches I go to. I'll note also that most people there are old, and receive communion daily.

With absolutely no ill intent intended from my part, how do you want people to think you are Christians when your bishops tolerate nonsense like that? The Protestant services I go to actually have more reverence than that (well, half of the time anyway - the other half is straight up Pentecostal garbage). If I had to rank in order of reverence, I would say:

Charismatic Protestant services < Charismatic Catholic services <<< "Sane" Protestant services < Paul VI Mass (when it's badly done) < Tridentine Mass < Paul VI Mass (when it's well done) < Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy = Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy (well, my peers have complained about badly latinized EC liturgies, but I haven't seen those yet, it's not like EC parishes are everywhere or I can afford to miss church all the time just to check out what other Christians are doing)

>>767732

>how do you want people to think you are Christians when your bishops tolerate nonsense like that?

The mistakes of the Bishops rest on the Bishops, not the faithful. My faith is not confined to the limits other men ascribe or discern—only God knows my faith, and literally no other factor is important, least of all what other people happen to think.

Sage for off-topic.

>>767721

>It is quite suspicious that of all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues is the only one to have resurfaced in recent times. Not healing, not prophecy, not raising the dead—no, only speaking in tongues, which mostly resembles erratic emotions and random gibberish which someone else has to "interpret."

Prophecy doesn't belong on that list so much. There are plenty of prophets of the humbler sort, actually it is the most common gift of the spirit. It's just that because of it's commonness and the common sense of most prophetic statements, they are easy to dismiss as if they were nothing, but make no mistake, you have to have spiritual love for someone in order to disgorge the Truth to someone unreservedly. The person who tells the drunk that he "has a problem" is exercising this faculty that is not of himself, and potentially at severe risk to himself (the man you admonish could be insulted enough to do you harm). So overall, I don't think prophecy has gone away, it's just not Isaiah-tier, because there's no demand for that, so now prophecy is relegated to the humble commonsense whereby people try to keep one another from falling into sin and failure.

Nevertheless I do agree that it is suspicious that the Pentecostals are so obsessed with this one facet of the early Church. Of course it is easy to see why; yelling gibberish isn't just easy to fake, since isn't even what we mean by fraud. This allows the weak-minded heretic to believe that he or she is exceptionally spiritually gifted, almost like unto the early apostles! Total arrogance

The gift of tongues was for preaching the gospel, especially in those early days.. and especially at Pentecost as people from all parts of the world had come to visit Jerusalem. It was the perfect moment for the Spirit to come down and witness through Peter, Mary, and the Apostles. But God uses all kinds of means to translate his Word.. even mundane ones.

He certainly doesn't speak in "chicken" or "baby talk" like some Pentecostals. What use is that? None. It's false, and it's only purpose seems to be to the Christian message look insane and stupid. Which is precisely what it does to outsiders almost every time. It inspires no awe, power, or conviction. It makes them laugh at the Church instead. This is hardly God's plan.. to be a laughingstock.

OTOH, there is an ecstatic prayer that, if you were immersed in it deeply, the Spirit would gush forth from you like a well.. and it might very well sound nonsensical. But I assure, it's often your native language the Spirit is speaking through.. if you could just slow down and control it (but you couldn't, if you were ecstatic and overjoyed). This was my first experience with God after believing in Jesus, if you're willing to believe me. I had no idea what it was, other than that I felt like I was involuntarily praising God.. such was the joy of meeting Jesus. It was only later that I read a story of St. Teresa of Avila experiencing the same thing.

"Amongst these favours, at once painful and pleasant, Our Lord sometimes causes in the soul a certain jubilation and a strange and mysterious kind of prayer. If He bestows this grace on you, praise Him fervently for it; I describe it so that you may know that it is something real. I believe that the faculties of the soul are closely united to God but that He leaves them at liberty to rejoice in their happiness together with the senses, although they do not know what they are enjoying nor how they do so. This may sound nonsense but it really happens." - St Teresa

Caveat: I'm actually Orthodox, but Teresa has a soft spot in my heart because she knew this. Take that as you will. I know some charismatic Catholics have latched on to her because of things like this, and they may well be talking of the same experience.. You'll know it when you see it, I suppose. It isn't like those weird people rolling on the floor, acting like animals. God is still a God of order.

As for this happening in any kind of liturgy.. I don't see why. It's a somber occasion, is it not?