/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

There's similarities but there's also differences. Also John's "Logos" does not come from the Greeks it comes from the Septuagint.

Except they believe in innate existence and are pantheistic, but otherwise sure.

>>727375

Based Abelard!

Nice to see you posting from Heaven.

The entire pagan world was a precursor to Christ

>>727381

Indeed

>"that which is called the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist from the beginning of the human race until Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity" - Saint Augustine

Can Stoic theodicy be reconciled to Christianity?

>>727375

>Nice to see you posting from Heaven

It's a shame Eloise didn't make it there with him :^)

>>727375

>Some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of Jesus and the resurrection. So they took Paul and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you are bringing some strange notions to our ears, and we want to know what they mean.”

Acts 17:18-22

Neoplatanism was a method of explaining Christianity everyone knows this

>>727422

Epicfedorus

>>727422

Maximus Tippingus does not get that evil is lack of good, thus like light cannot enter where shadows are, so God allows us to use our free will to cause evil. Natural disasters are a different topic, tho.

>>727375

Christianity was adopted by the greeks so fastidiously because it was basically a miraculous answer to many of their philosophical problems.

For instance, aristotle proposed that a monotheistic first cause was the true god, above and beyond the pagan gods (who most greek "atheists" considered to be cruel, useless and arbitrary)… but he also hypothesized that we'd be unable to have a relationship with it that's meaningful because it's so much higher than us.

Lo and behold, here comes god-as-man Jesus, BTFO'ing that notion out, giving god relational solidarity with man in the human condition. It's a solution to aristotle's impossibility of relation to the true god.

Greeks had some of the best pre-christian notions, but christianity perfected and elevated their notions, in most cases through the incarnation.

But yes, we're so similar that the roman empire at once considered us in the same category of greek "atheists" (monotheists), and justin martyr's apologia are about the defense against this charge.

>>727444

fedorus maximus is also talking about the polytheistic gods. Justin Martyr ripped into those guys even harder, calling them evil demons that men serve only out of terror.

Plato -> Plotinus -> Augustine led to my conversion. I owe a lot personally to the Greeks and hope God has rewarded them for their love of Truth.

>>727375

>Stoics

>Plato

>Heraclitus

>Socrates

>Aristotle

>Neo-Platonism

>were Christians before Christ

What has this board become? OP, stop being so damn foolish and realize that all of these are different. Just because they may have had some overlapping views doesn't mean that hurr we all same. They also certainly were not Christian. Stop preaching nonsense. I hope this is b8.

>>727963

This is literally standard Catholic/Orthodox teaching. Never heard of "virtuous pagans"? It has been a thing since St Justin Martyr.

>>727967

They're just screeching Baptists.

>>727375

Gospel use of Logos has nothing to do with the Greek definition. It's the Word of God, in the Hebrew understanding. Like Torah/Teaching or Wisdom is sung about in the Psalms and Proverbs. Just because the writer used the same word doesn't mean it's the same exact concept.

Plato hated the real world and proppped up Idealism. "Being" and "Becoming" (and shunning the "becoming"). God made no distinction for humankind on those matters. When God created life, he said "It was good."

Gnostics/NeoPlatonics knew this, but instead of admitting they were wrong, they decided that the Old Testament God was evil (the Demiurge).

>>727967

Orthodox shun Plato and the others. Why do you think they don't even teach much Augustine? Because he was a Platonist and brought in his pagan trappings of his old life when he converted. Augustine is a big reason Catholics and Orthodox never saw eye to eye and slowly distanced.

Justin used philosophy to debate. Not to embrace it. Marcion and Valentinus had already blended Greek philosophy and were precursors to Gnostics. They had caused a storm in Justin's day. It took people like him and Irenaeus to use their own philosophy against them and articulate orthodox teaching.

>>727967

It's literally not. Greek philosophy is condemned in the Synodikon.

>>728675

>Synodikon

For reference:

To them who undertake Greek studies not only for purposes of education but also follow after their vain opinions, and are so thoroughly convinced of their truth and validity that they shamelessly introduce them and teach them to others, sometimes secretly and sometimes openly,

Anathema (3)

To them who of themselves refashion creation by means of mythical fabrications and accept the Platonic ideas as veritable, saying that matter, being self-subsistent, is given form by these ideas, and who thereby clearly calumniate the free will of the Creator Who brought all things into being out of non-being and Who, as Maker, established the beginning and end of all things by His authority and sovereignty,

Anathema (3)

>>727422

What Epicurus assumes is that God's sole existence is to make utopia for man. But in order for God to make utopia for man, he would have to remove man's free will. God won't do that, God has already created creatures without free will. They're called animals. In order for man to have free will, there has to be a possibility of good and evil, otherwise he's not free, he's just a machine. We call God, God, because we try to strive for the ideal embodied by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

>>728664

>>727963

>>728668

>>728682

Why are you so poohed off because the Greeks had very Christian ideas before Christ?

>>727982

NO!!

Do NOT blame us. This has Cathphilosophy stink all over it.

No, we don't. And much confusion is done because Christianity uses the world Logos.

Logos is very personal in the Orthodox sense but very impersonal in the Platonic sense.

A lot of people now see Logos as abstract Logic or Reason, but it's not in the NT conotation. Though I would concede that the roman catholic and protestant obsession with abstractions is hellenized. But that came after.