/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Because God is love, and sex is meant to be an intimate expression of love between two people, which means exclusivity and an unbreakable bond between them. Treating sex with light-mindedness, fornication, adultery, is a sacrilege of love.

>>725490

You can have those things and also practice anal sex though.

>>725490

/thread

>>725494

Um, I really wasn't talking about cheating.

>>725497

Adultery is far more than cheating. Premarital, extramarial, homosex, sex with non-humans all count. The idea of having sex without purpose is adultering the very idea that sex is fro a purpose.

goes back to pope gregory the great whom in opposition to God's declaring that sexual union - as everything else in the pre-fallen creation - was 'very good; took it upon himself to say that sexual desire was inherently sinful

tl;dr blame the romanists

>>725488

hey strelok

sexual immortality is mentioned and condemned very often throughout scripture

>>725498

I don't see why premarital sex is bad, if you're planning on being together anyway, but I get why you believe cheating is bad.

Do you think it's bad to try anal sex?

>>725501

I understand you think it is bad, I'm asking why.

>>725500

lol, interesting.

>>725498

Where are you getting this from? Every definition of adultery that I can find says its sex between a married person and someone they aren't married to.

I'd start with this. I think C.S lewis. Makes some pretty good points. Which this may help you more. Because Sex is sinful? Well no that's not what told. But that over indulgence can lead to dangers. And perversion. Hope this helps.

>>725498

what the hell are you talking about

>>725498

like >>725506 says arn't you getting confused with fornication which can often be said to include all the things you listed? (or sometimes fornication translated as 'sexual immorality' to clarify the broad scope of things which fall under fornication/'porneia'). Adultery is to do with the status of the persons (i.e married or not) while fornication is to do with the nature of the act (i.e. outside of marriage)

I though the definitions were

If it involves a married person = adultery

If it involves sex to someone (or something) whose not your spouse (whether you're married or not) = fornication

idk tbf

>>725505

while i'm glad you find it noteworthy, it's actually been immensely detrimental to the well-being and psychological wholeness of believers for several hundred years

see throughout the scriptures, from Genesis' command that men and women 'go forth and multiply' to the New Testament's instructions to married couples that they should not abstain from relations except for times of prayer; we have clear indications that God gave sexual union to men and women that they might have intimate joy in each other - and this being a type and shadow of the intimate joy of the 3 persons who are One, so men and women become 'one' in the union of marriage; reflecting the glory of God when two souls 'made in His image' are joined

but men taken in their own fancy and filled with conceit, corrupted such clear understanding - and eventually hid such instruction from the laity - teaching that the natural desire of a man for his wife, and a wife for her husband, was an evil; rather than that 'very good' gift that God had bestowed upon them

this pernicious doctrine wounded so many souls by enthralling them to seemingly pious figures who pretended to chastity, and the lay person would think himself utterly hopeless without such a mediator as the priest - this alter-christus ruling over his parish, bishopric, and even the holy roman empire according to his whim, and often with an iron fist demanding taxes to feed the insatiable lusts of the devils who lived in idle luxury much as a nero or caligula

so yeah, it's interesting alright - if you consider the enslavement of millions predicated on lies a mere curiosity

me, i take it pretty seriously since i believe that the Judge of all the Earth will do right; on on that great and terrible final day, Justice will be meted out to those who corrupted His words, and plundered the lives of those whom He declared sacred

>>725488

Sex separated from the reproductive act is sin

>>725491

>>725503

I was trying to link you to this because I was pretty sure that sodomy was on the list, but surprisingly it's not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_sin#Actions_constituting_a_%22grave_matter%22

The hell, I was pretty sure it was on here. It looks like the list gets shorter and shorter with time. I vaguely remember communism also being on the list. Looks like someone is trying to deliberately sabotage this page.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that it is in fact, a sin even within heterosexual marriage.

>>725488

>completely devoid of all pleasure

>straw man #666

0/10 making me reply

>>725488

> Not just gay sex, but also just about all forms of sex that isn't just completely devoid of all pleasure and only to conceive a child

There’s nothing wrong with sexual pleasure if it occurs within normal, non-contraceptive sex between a husband and his wife.

>>725526

The Church has never taught that sexual intercourse between man and wife, or the desire thereof, is inherently sinful.

>>725613

i guess pope gregory the great wasn't speaking ex cathedra then, huh?

>>725533

how do you define "the reproductive act"?

>>725597

This

>>725671

Benis in bagina, ebin.

>>725500

>>725644

Can you provide a quote from him on the subject?

>>725526

Yeah, it's a shame really.

>>725597

Lots of things have risks though, that doesn't make it a sin so long as you understand and take those risks seriously.

Like, one thing that's totally unnecessary and just for fun, but has a lot of risks, is playing football - huge risk for brain injury, but I wouldn't say that someone who plays football despite knowing the risks is bad somehow.

>>725503

I don't mean this in a bad way, but your opinion, (just as my opinion) does not matter on matters like this, not in the slightest.

The Bible, being divinely inspired, mentions that any sexual immorality/sodomy/adultery/and so on is sin.

They are activities which if you actively engage in them and do not repent, exclude you from the Kingdom of God.

If God, being the Creator of all things, considers something as "sin" or "bad", then it is "sin" or "bad" whatever we may think of it.

Our problems started when we tried to decide for ourselves what was "good" and "bad" instead of humbly obeying God in all things.

>>725755

I know your intentions are good, you're just trying to show me what you believe is all.

With that said, does your opinion differ from God's on some things, but you bury those opinions because you trust God?

>>725714

stfu degenerate. you're a literal human excuse making machine. how many excuses per minute can you churn out? just stop doing/supporting degernate crap and get your act together.

1 Corinthians 6:16

Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

In the verse before this, Paul compares our relationship with God to be a union as well, not a sexual union, but a spiritual union. We are literally married to God. The reason this is important, is when you have sex with someone, you are fusing yourself spiritually with them. Not just physically and for the sake of pleasure. The reason the Bible rails so hard against sexual immorality is because when you have sex with someone outside of what God intended, it corrupts your very being. See: Every sex addict and homosexual in existence. Sex is not only a physical act, it is a spiritual one meant for creating life and forming a bond between partners. Outside of this, not only are you disobeying God, but every act of disobedience is outside the interest of man from a practical standpoint, that's why God gives us commands. They arent tests so that you will obey or disobey. Disobedience is a sin in and of itself, but sexual sin is a sin against the natural order and intent of God. You are corrupting something good that God created. When you murder, you are annihilating the image of God in this world. In the same way with sex, you are taking something holy and created and desecrating it permanently. This is why sexual immorality is not only something prohibited, but something dangerous.

>>725758

I'm going to be very honest with you. Because my body and sick mind influence my thoughts a lot, sure, I have temptations (even though I know they're the opposite of what God wants for me or what he wants me to do) about having sexual relations with various people that mean nothing besides sexual pleasure, making easy money to the detriment of other people, being lazy instead of working hard, lying to get out of bad situations, getting overly angry with people, being proud and resentful, and the list goes on and on. I sin in more ways than I'm even aware of. Every single day. But I do try to fight these temptations every day too. I ask for repentance and mercy (almost?) every day. I try to be aware of opportunities to spread the Kingdom of God when I can, but I'm still a sinner who's engaged in a daily, continual fight. I'm far from perfect, but I try. And I do accept that these temptations should not be engaged in, being that they do not come from God. I also accept that when my opinion differs from Scripture & Tradition that it's ME that has to change, not the other way around. So far I can't find any Dogma that I still oppose after knowing about it, I think.

>>725761

I can probably clock about 60 per minute if I really put my mind to it. :)

Sorry for the joke, it was just too funny to pass up.

>>725762

Gay people can form bonds too though, which by your own admission would give those relationships some value. Sex is a good way to be close with someone tbh. The pleasure might motivate you to do so, but it can and often does affect how close you are with that person too.

>>725768

I respect your honesty and commitment to your beliefs, even if some of them don't make complete sense to me. Self-control and humbleness is definitely valuable regardless of what you believe.

>>725786

>Self-control and humbleness is definitely valuable regardless of what you believe.

Very true, I started reading the Bible at age 14 because I did not believe in God and wanted to know what it was all about. That's when I found out that it was actually filled with amazing stories and advice that would benefit everyone to know. I internalized these teachings and gradually became more and more religious.

Thank you for your questions and may you too grow in Christ.

>>725512

The last minutes of the video says im more of a sinner than a whore since i fail a lot with pride.

>>725500

Where in the bible does it say sexual relations happened before the fall?

>>725488

Fetishes and kinks have the potential to lead one through a negative path in search of new pleasures which can lead to dissatisfaction with ones spouse and cause infidelity and divorce.

It can be a form of overindulgence.

>>725488

You seem to be under the impression that sex is a purely physical act of pleasure and that casual sex is actually a real thing. This is incorrect. Sex affects both mentally and spiritually to a very high degree. By now you've probably seen all of those studies showing that the more sexual partners a woman has, the less likely she is stay in a stable relationship and the less likely she is to be happy later on in life.

>>725891

>Where in the bible does it say sexual relations happened before the fall?

it doesn't specifically say that sexual relations happened before the fall, but in Genesis 1 we see an account of creation where God repeatedly declares that what he has made is 'good'

then in verses 27 and 28 we see God create mankind, commanding them to 'Be fruitful and multiply…' - the multiplication of humans requiring that they have sexual relations

then after God has created mankind, and given them this commandment, God does not merely say that His creation is 'good', but rather; that it is 'very 'good' - and since these statutes were put in place before the fall, we can draw forth the teaching that sexual relations are a 'very good' gift from God to his people

>>726017

>>725500

>blame the romanists

you don't know what you're talking about.

it goes back to St. Augustine, when Adam and Eve "realized their nakedness", it was because they incurred the sinful state upon themselves, and lost themselves to Lust, one of the very first sins.

Catholics teach the inherent goodness of martial relations, it is Protestants who violate the sanctity of marriage with their loose re-marriage laws and blurred and most muddled ideas of what is good and what is bad about sex.

>teaching that the natural desire of a man for his wife, and a wife for her husband, was an evil

God told Eve that her desire would be for her husband, and that she will suffer great pains in childbirth. Ergo, her lust for men would be increased despite the almost paradoxical pain they suffer in child-birth. Lust and impure thoughts are still unholy, and we are given an example of a holy marriage in Tobias, just because your sect in its blindness through it out does not mean it is there.

>Justice will be meted out to those who corrupted His words, and plundered the lives of those whom He declared sacred

Scripture is a double-edged sword, friend.

>>726020

>threw it out does not mean it is there*

>>726020

>it goes back to St. Augustine, when Adam and Eve "realized their nakedness", it was because they incurred the sinful state upon themselves, and lost themselves to Lust, one of the very first sins.

yep, yep yep yep - this is what i was alluding to earlier on when i spoke of gregory the great declaring that sexual desire was sinful in itself - the lads were a little too influenced by greek ascetic philosophy rather than scripture; so they started making arguments from such verses as 'in sin my mother conceived me', saying that sexual desire itself was the original sin, when i reality it was when the adam and eve sought the same rights as God and ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

i don't blame you for trying to defend your church mate, but because you've had thousands of years of twisted scripture, you can't handle that blade

>>726025

>the lads were a little too influenced by greek ascetic philosophy rather than scripture

and where does Scripture endorse lust, friend? did not the "sons of God" lay with the "daughters of men", and God declined the length of life for all men?

>saying that sexual desire itself was the original sin

no, St. Augustine argues that uncontrolled and unrestrained sexual desire is the sin, St. Augustine argued that hypothetically, Adam and Eve would have had complete control over their sexual urges if they had never fallen to the serpent's lies

>when i reality it was when the adam and eve sought the same rights as God and ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

yes, and this is why all sexual desire outside of marriage is sinful, it has an exclusive purpose, and any abuse leads men away from God. you can see this in tons of examples, most pertinent (aside from the early example) in the examples of David and Solomon.

>but because you've had thousands of years of twisted scripture, you can't handle that blade

you still haven't gone into specifics…what exactly is good about sexual desire outside of marriage? have you ever read St. Aquinas? Or any actual Church teaching on the matter? To withhold sex from your spouse is considered a sin.

>why you believe sex is so sinful

#1 Because there is no such thing as "safe sex"

#2 Because sex is not a physical act, but a union between two people who open themselves up to each other. You should be selective about who you engage with in such a manner. If you treat such a thing casually, (and nobody does the first time) that just means you are damaged goods.

#3 Sex has a function, which is reproduction, AND the strengthening of the pair bond. If your sexlife doesn't serve either of these functions, it's an abuse of the practice. That is why it's wrong to have sex with more than one people. Sex should strictly be practiced monogamously for stronger bonds.

#4 Sex for it's own sake is abusive to all parties involved. Like art, it degenerates into filth when it's not directed towards something higher and noble.

#5 Casual sex represents a lack of respect for human dignity, for all parties involved. Nothing shows this more than porn, which is a satanic practice, and should be purged entirely.

Sexual pleasure isn’t bad. Separating that pleasure from the purpose of sex is bad.

>>726015

I don't believe sex is just physical pleasure. In this post >>725786 I explain that I believe sex helps form a connection with someone. I kind of think everyone who thinks anal sex and gay sex is so sinful is because they can't look past the physical aspect of it and admit that sex is a healthy part of a relationship. Also, I never argued in favor of cheating and sleeping with many different people, I'm just saying sex is a good part of any relationship, and shouldn't be seen and labeled as just sinful physical pleasure.

>>726040

I agree with #2 (except saying "damaged goods" is a bit eh but whatevs) and #3 (sex is in fact useful for relationships, thank you, that's my entire point).

>>725490

couldn't have put it any better