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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 670e473be969286⋯.jpg (59.21 KB, 800x600, 4:3, The-Holy-Quran.jpg)

5ee7c2  No.724124

What does /christian/ think of the Koran? Have you read it? What's it like? Is it like the Bible except with Muhammad?

dd991d  No.724134

I've read it several times. It's tedious, repetitive, and unprofound. People will say that this is because you have to read it in the original language, but the Bible is a powerful text no matter what language you read it in. Reading the Quran is overall a waste of time if you're just doing it for literary reasons, the only point would be for polemics against Islam. If you're interested in it as literature then just read:

- first two suras (Fatiha and Baqara)

- Sura Maryam

- Surat al Kahf (Sura of the Cave)

- some of the shorter suras at the end

You'll get the main idea without wasting time reading the whole text.


910524  No.724141

>>724124

Eh, it's ok. Comparing it to the Bible is meaningless, though. It's like comparing a Stephen King novel or a comic book to the BIble. Qur'an is just another book and not to be taken seriously.


e0f745  No.724143

>>724124

It's complete shit. No literally, I opened one up one time and actually smelled the stench of donkey shit coming from the pages. I hate it so much as I hate Islam.


e453f6  No.724173

>>724124

I’ve read it. It’s very different from the Bible for a lot of reasons

First off, the Bible is largely in a chronological order both narratively and historically. Meaning generally, if one Bible book comes before another, it’s because the first one was written earlier, and it also generally takes place earlier in the story. Obviously there are some exceptions, like how Job is first mentioned in Genesis but his story doesn’t come until after all the history books, and the book of Job is considered a very early Biblical work, but for the most part it holds true. You could get a full story by starting with Genesis and reading through to Revelation.

By contrast, the Quran is not arranged in a linear order (it doesn’t start with creation, work its way up through the prophets, and end at the last judgement like The Bible does), and they’re also not arranged in order written (or “revealed”). The arrangement is mostly arbitrary, as the Quran is a completely different kind of book from the Bible.

The Quran has no linear narrative, and stories are mostly told for the purpose of making some point. For example, a passage of the Quran might go something like this

>Allah is one, there is no other alongside him

>And people rejected Abraham, who told them to turn from idols, who was asked to sacrifice his son, who built the Kaaba

>And Allah sent Moses, who preached this to them, and gave them the Torah, but they rejected him, and worshipped a golden calf

>And Jesus Son of Mary told them to worship one God, but they disbelieved and turned not from their idols

That’s not a real passage, that’s just a pastiche so you can get an idea of the feel of it.

Outside of teaching passages like that, there’s a ton of direct commandments directed at the reader. Often, they start off with “O you who believe…” and you’ll read a ton of passages like that.

So there’s the teaching passages with story, direct commands (which sometimes lead into stories), and then there’s parts that are just listing off attributes of God, Heaven, Hell, and angels.

That’s a basic summation of its contents.

The Quran is largely a giant prayer book. You’re supposed to memorize sections of it in Arabic, and recite them as prayers at Islamic services. Most of the Bible is prose, but the Quran is a giant Arabic poem. Arabic poetry doesn’t translate well to any western language, so in English it’s very dry. I got one of those “read the Quran in 30 days” things (the Quran can be split into 30 parts called a “juz”) and forced my way through it.

Some other notes:

It actually doesn’t mention Muhammad that much. He barely factors in. The main focus is Abraham and Jesus

There’s a lot of times where the stories are referenced so briefly you won’t really understand it without just looking it up. I knew enough about the Bible to understand most, but all the references to stuff that happened in the life of Muhammad were just incomprehensible

The Quran has a ton of repetition. There were a few times where I would check back to see if I was rereading passages. I really don’t think there’s a single passage only said once in the Quran and not repeated

It actually does have a few prophets outside of the Bible. A lot of people think the Quran is like a “sequel” to the Bible, and Muslims accept every prophet in the Old Testament+ Jesus and Muhammad, but they actually don’t. The Quran never mentions Isaiah, Jeremiah, or Daniel, and it adds this prophet named “Hud” who preached in “the sandy plains.”


c8f5e2  No.724188

File: c8960e209eb7ae9⋯.png (14.39 KB, 462x320, 231:160, mfw my soul when.png)

>>724173

I think this is the best answer to the thread. The Quran is a poetry-styled prayer book that's designed to be memorized, repeated, meditated on, and probably is best used with additional supplements from community theologians and a big prayer life. I would imagine it doesn't stand well on its own, in a vacuum.


24a255  No.724193

I plan on reading it cover to cover to be able to explain correctly what is wrong with Islam.


50d10f  No.724195

File: a41b5eea02cfdbb⋯.jpeg (31.4 KB, 333x499, 333:499, image.jpeg)

>>724193

I would also highly recommend this book


216b17  No.724205

>>724188

> I would imagine it doesn't stand well on its own, in a vacuum.

it doesn't stand too well in the context of its origins, the life of its prophet according to the hadith literature, or the practices of islam's followers


50d10f  No.724209

>>724205

the life of it's alleged prophet. the historicity of muhammad is disputable


216b17  No.724210

>>724205

… oh and i can't believe i forgot to mention; nor in the context of the revelation God had already given to man in the tanakh and injil


dcc53b  No.724213

>>724124

It's basically the bible written by papists

>self contradictory

>unending nonsense doctrines and decrees

>violence prescribed against their brothers for the smallest issue but full blown evil is to be ignored

>pro pedo

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

910524  No.724229

>>724209

There is some fairly clear evidence that he existed. Example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad


db74aa  No.724576

The Koran is clearly heresy, and foretold by Deuteronomy 13. Reading it should be a horrible offense, since you're letting people stray from the righteous path of God


8b5a2f  No.724584

>>724576

I don’t think reading it is an offense, so long as you understand how flawed it is


60b8d8  No.725138

>>724229

that looks like a very questionable document. according to the wiki there is no original copy of it. educate yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMqhAmvC6L4


910524  No.725144

>>725138

Meh … the shroud of turin is just as questionable. It's all a matter of perspective.

>educate yourself

Already done, thanks. I don't need a 6 hour long biased youtube video.


60b8d8  No.725158

>>725144

Watch the first 30-40 minutes, stop being lazy. The rest is mainly about variations in the Quran, and racism/slavery in Islam.


683a9c  No.725175

>>725138

The Qur'an was copied from Syriac Christian prayers and liturgy. Muhammad's existence was forged to give the Qur'an a divine origin.

>Comparing to and ܝܫܘܥ, it looks like an ayin was placed at the front and the waw omitted, while the shin sound changed to the variant sin sound was actually already the result of a sound shift though the diacritical mark was removed in the Qur'anic version and the flexible ayin was placed at the end to have it partner with which isn't unusual in the Qur'an, we also see this with ‎ and . It seems that no doubt the Qur'anic is an intentional manipulation of ܝܫܘܥ. This looks to be the work of later scribes who fashioned the Qur'an out of already existing Jewish and Christian material as there's no way an illiterate pedophilic warlord named ‎ could have come up with this, if indeed that illiterate pedophilic warlord even existed, which there is very little evidence he actually did exist. The name itself, ‎ was an already existing Christian name in Arabia meaning "praiseworthy" (indeed he is the praiseworthy one for Muslims), which would be odd for him to have coming from the pagan Quraysh tribe. Indeed, scribes invented his father to have a Christian Theophoric name meaning "slave of God".


683a9c  No.725176

>>725175

For some reason Arabic doesn't show up on this website. Regardless, Islam is basically just an Arabia Christian heresy, an amalgamation of Ebionitism and Docetism. Muhammad was invented by the aristocracy to give divinity to the Qur'an.


910524  No.725177

>>725158

>not sitting on my ass to watch a video

>lazy

Anon, I …


60b8d8  No.725182

>>725177

Oh, and I guess sitting in a classroom and learning is also lazy? So the only non lazy thing is menial labor or what?


1eded6  No.725185

>>725182

Come on man, it's a six hour video. I don't doubt it's informative, but you can't just post six hour videos and demand people watch them


60b8d8  No.725194

>>725185

I didn't ask you to watch the whole video. Most of it is on Quranic variants and slavery/racism. The first 30-40 mins is good enough, but the hour or so after that deals with qiblas of the earliest mosques which is also fascinating (hint: they are pointing neither to Mecca nor Jerusalem). Anyway, this thread is about the Quran, so presumably it has an educative purpose. I've shared educational material, and by the way the six hour video is actually a compilation of a bunch of episodes, so it can be watched in parts over however long a period you like. It's very bare bones and fact based, and one of the presenters is a former Saudi scholar, it's not some emotional propaganda or something. It's highly informative.


910524  No.725204

>>725194

You posted the video to me in response to my mentioning of the Ashtiname of Muhammad. Since that has nothing to do with Qur'an, why would you post a 6 hour long video about Qur'an in response to that unrelated document and, then, tell me to "educate myself"?


22e2c3  No.725207

>>724124

I grew up around a lot of muslims and I was curious about their religion. So one day I decided to read it and I've read it twice. It was a lot different then the Bible. Especially the style of writing. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, with all respect to their religion, but I have a hard time believing it's the same God the Christians and the Muslims worship.

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157–15


60b8d8  No.725212

>>725204

The video deals both with the historicity of Muhammad and with the Quran, and other subjects besides.


60b8d8  No.725469

File: 02644e76c979119⋯.png (6.09 MB, 656x3245, 656:3245, qibla.png)

File: ecd0af3153361fa⋯.png (1.22 MB, 648x2558, 324:1279, wrong meccan descriptions.png)

>>725138

here is a sample of SOME of the slides included in that video


c812b0  No.725472

>>724576

Look out guys. Here comes the inquisition.


5ad62a  No.725588

File: 1dae43cc9467beb⋯.png (66.91 KB, 352x264, 4:3, Ahi Monitor.png)


db74aa  No.727484

It's terrible. It's literally like a drunk guy repeating Bible stiries he heard from somewhere. The average surah goes something like this:

>Surah 69: Moses

>in the name of God, the merciful, the really merciful

>Jam. Flemgeflur. Hey guys, remember Moses? He was a guy, who did things. Then God talked to him. God is awesome. Then We gave him some rules. Praise be to God. Then they made a calf, or a horse or something. What a bunch of assholes. Moses said: "Hey guy, you can't do that, that's, that's a horse or a cow, you can't do that!" God is merciful. If you don't believe in God, you'll go to hell. That's a bad place to sit, or sleep, or something.

Now imagine this for about 400 pages and you'll have a good picture of what this "Holy" """"""""""Book"""""""""""" is like


734dab  No.727497

File: cdb3023503de528⋯.png (409.78 KB, 1351x406, 193:58, Daily Reminder.PNG)

>>724124

Sunan an-Nasai, Number 307:

It was narrated from Anas bin Malik that some Bedouins from Urainah came to the Prophet and became Muslim, but the climate of Al-Madinah did not suit them; their skin turned yellow and their stomachs became swollen. The Messenger of Allah sent them to some pregnant camels of his and told them to drink their milk and urine until they recovered. Then they killed the camel-herder and drove the camels away. The Messenger of Allah sent people after them, and they were brought back. Their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were smoldered with burning nails. The Commander of the Believers, Abdul-Malik, said to Anas—when he was narrating this Hadith to him—“(Were they being punished) for Kufr or for a sin?” He said: “For Kufr.”

Here are three takeaways.

First, Muhammad’s solution to sickness was drinking camel urine. Why don’t doctors today recommend camel urine for stomach problems? Because camel urine doesn’t help with stomach problems, though this doesn’t stop Muslim merchants from selling camel urine as a cure. One merchant even got caught selling bottles of his own urine as camel urine. Think about how much urine has been consumed by the Muslim community over the centuries because of Muhammad.

Second, Islam’s most trusted sources claim that the Muslims who drank the camel urine left Islam, scattered Muhammad’s camels, and killed his camel-herder—after the camel urine cured them. But is this really believable? Why would they leave Islam and become enraged after following Muhammad’s advice and being cured? Isn’t it far more likely that they drank the camel urine, became even more sick, realized that Muhammad was a false prophet who made them drink camel urine, and scattered Muhammad’s camels in a fit of rage?

Third, Muhammad had his followers chop the men’s hands and feet off and burn out their eyes with hot nails. The men were then left in the heat to die and were refused water. One of them was biting at the ground out of thirst. Muslims often claim that these apostates were tortured, mutilated, and left to die because of what they had done to Muhammad’s camel-herder. But Anas, who narrated the story, was specifically asked whether they were tortured, mutilated, and left to die because of some sin, or because of kufr (their return to unbelief). Anas said that they were tortured, mutilated, and left to die for kufr—unbelief.

Welcome to Islam—the religion that tells you to drink camel urine, then, when you get even sicker and decide to leave, chops off your hands and your feet, burns out your eyes with hot nails, and leaves you to die as you bite the ground from thirst.


4246df  No.727510

>>724576

Not defending the Koran, but by that logic reading the Iliad is a horrible offense.


563bc3  No.727511

>>724124

it's shit


563bc3  No.727512

>>724213

>It's basically the bible written by papists

>>self contradictory

>>unending nonsense doctrines and decrees

>>violence prescribed against their brothers for the smallest issue but full blown evil is to be ignored

>>pro pedo

this too


60b8d8  No.727615

>>727484

lmao, some of the stories are also retardedly vague like

>Do you remember the tale of the three worshippers? They came to a place with a river and worshiped, then a fourth man came. Only Allah, merciful and mighty, knows the truth of this matter! As for those who speculate they will be cast into the hellfire on an appointed day. Allah is merciful.


675d9a  No.727618

>>724124

Islam is a religion of cuckoldry.

>(45:14) "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not hope for the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or evil) each people according to what they have earned”

>[2:190] “You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

>[2:192] “If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.”




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