/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

The holy opposite to other kinds of spirits like that which those possessed by multiple unclean spirits had.

>>711417

Where the winnie the pooh are you hearing all this heretical garbage?

>>711419

Every corner of the internet calls it something different. I asked a priest what it is. He said it's just obvious but hard to explain.

>>711418

Okay, what does this mean? What is it?

>>711423

It's a kind of air or wind. It's distinguished from the soul (psukhé, i.e psyche).

>>711422

>denying the personhood of the Spirit

A husband and wife can love each other very much, but to say that their love is actually another person is ridiculous.

>>711422

>the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the pure, unfettered love between God the Father and His Son.

And what does it manifest as? How is it relevant to us? I understand the Father being the initial creator and Jesus the Logos, but what is the Holy Spirit?

>>711425

I didn't deny the personhood of the spirit any more than saying Jesus is the Logos is denying his personhood.

>>711426

>And what does it manifest as?

Love, wisdom, faith. When it manifests itself physically it takes the form of a dove.

>How is it relevant to us?

It's relevant to us because the Holy Spirit dwells within us after baptism and connects us to Jesus as the true vine. Through the Holy Spirit we receive the gifts that transform ourselves from the fallen man to the original vision of true sonship and communion with God.

>>711427

To say that the Spirit is the love between the Father and Son is to relegate the Spirit to one of God's attributes, not to God Himself.

>>711430

Uhhhhhhh, okay so what is it? Parents can provide love, wisdom, and faith too. What makes it different from a magical wind made of love that teleports faith into you? What actually IS it?

>>711428

Well how else do you explain something that is otherwise imperceptible to the naked eye that can somehow permeate bodies.

Genesis says that God's spirit moved over the face of the waters. So perhaps it could be deduced that the Holy Spirit is commanded by God while unclean ones are commanded by Satan or other evil or adversaries of God with spiritual command like could be expected of the Satan.

>>711431

No it doesn't. Read the paper I linked, it very clearly explains the concept. If Jesus can be the Logos without being relegated to merely being an "attribute" of God then the Holy Spirit can be love. It's the exact same principle. You cannot refute one without denying the other.

>>711434

>Well how else do you explain something that is otherwise imperceptible to the naked eye that can somehow permeate bodies.

The noosphere can do that too, which is probably why a lot of people think that's what it is. Consciousness and the noosphere are the only satisfying answers I've ever heard describe it. Everyone else (yes INCLUDING self proclaimed devout Christians) just regurgitates the atheist strawman "It's just joo magic mayne!"

>>711435

Christ being associated with the eternal Logos in John's Gospel is something which has been revealed to us, thereby being theologically true. The Spirit being the love which exists between the Father and Son is just theological speculation and doesn't affirm the personhood of the Spirit, only the attributes of the Father and Son.

Well what is it? I refuse to believe a fedora strawman is the actual church doctrine. Unless this board is nothing but larping fedoras at least one of you should have a satisfactory answer or at least be able to link me to some of Aquinas' thoughts on the matter.

>>711436

Noosphere? Aside from it's obvious foreignness to standard doctrinal thought, it looks like some kind of a collective consciousness. How many of those are supposed to exist? I'm really just going by an etymological interpretation of it all.

>>711440

Nevermind I just looked up what Aquinas says and all he did was justifying naming it and say some autism about who it proceeds from. He does not describe WHAT it is.

>>711440

It's already been explained to you. You're probably thinking in terms of physicality, wondering what the Holy Spirit is in terms of matter. Remember the Holy Spirit is spirit, i.e. not physical. It can exist as something we consider only conceptual. When people say "God is Love" they don't mean God is very loving. They mean God IS love, it forms part of the fabric of his very being. Love to us is something non-physical, we can't touch it with our physical bodies, but it does exist in a very real way and God is the ultimate manifestation of it, all Love flows from Him and filters down to us.

So with that in mind you need to remember the Holy Spirit is not physical, it exists as something to us would seem to be something purely conceptual, but it is very real and from it flow the gifts of love, wisdom and faith.

The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. He is Gods Spirit, He is also the Gift of the Father to those that are saved. He teaches us all things and revels Jesus to us helps us in our walk. Is the power of God that works through believers and is called the comforter by Jesus. He is also the one that gave the power to Jesus to do miracles since Jesus was a man. Jesus ministry started at when He was baptized with the Holy Spirit in the Jordan. It is the same spirit that gave the Apostles utterance on the day of Pentecost. He is the one that bestows the gifts of the spirit on us. He is also the one that was at work in the Old Testament. He is the one that urges people to accept Jesus as Lord of their lives. He is the one that restrains the devil at this time so he cannot do all that he wants. He is also the one that overshadowed Mary who got pregnant and gave birth to Jesus. He is the one that wrote the bible through many men and He is also the one that helps us to pray when do not know what to pray. This only lists a small portion of the work of the Holy Spirit.

>>711441

As I understand it the noosphere is the interconnected network of human minds for memes and information to flow through. I suppose communication would be another satisfactory answer for what the Holy Spirit is, if that is truly what it is.

>>711444

I can understand concepts just fine, but I'm not comfortable believing it's "just joo majik" like the fedoras say. Surely other Christians have more complex and definite explanations.

>>711433

>Parents can provide love, wisdom, and faith too

Not apart from God they cannot. None of those things exist without God.

Just as Jesus is a person so is the Holy Spirit. He reveals to us all things that God wants to show or tell us. He is real and alive and not conceptual in nature. The bible says my sheep know my voice.

>>711446

>It does this

>It does that

WHAT is it?

We don't really know. It's like how we don't really know what "proceed" or "begotten" means. The Holy Spirit's existence was revealed to us, but we only have a few things to go on as to what it is exactly. The Orthodox would prefer just to accept that we don't know and say that the nature of the Trinity is a mystery rather than charge forward blindly and end up spouting flat out incorrect heresy like half this thread.

>>711449

If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty those things cannot exist in a human without neural synapsis firing a certain way. I highly doubt brain cells are the Holy Spirit.

>>711448

>I can understand concepts just fine

Clearly you cannot since it's been explained to you in this thread about 5 times and you keep coming back with "B-B-But WHAT IS IT!?". You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea of non-physicality. The idea that the Holy Spirit is the love between the Father and the Son doesn't mean it's nothing more than an idea. Love is not a feeling. It's a real thing that exists, with no physicality. It forms Gods very being. Just as the Son was begotten by the Father the Holy Spirit proceeds from both Father and Son as the manifestation of their mutual love. It is a person, just like the Father and the Son

>>711453

>It's like how we don't really know what "proceed" or "begotten" means.

Looks like it means engendered or generated.

The bible says God did not leave us alone, this refers to the Holy spirit that lives inside of us when we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Jesus did. When this happens we receive the same power that Jesus had to perform miracles, since Jesus was man and is our example and it was the Holy Spirit through Him that did the miracles.

The Holy Spirit is only a mystery to those that want to remain ignorant of what God has for them.

>>711456

Define love. You're clearly not talking about romance or normal affection.

>>711455

>Muh physicalism

You overplayed your hand fedora. The physical brain is not the seat of the will and your consciousness doesn't reside in your brain cells. This is why you can't understand the Holy Spirit, it's because you're beholden to an atheistic worldview where you see things as being reducible to their smallest physical components. You're wrong

>>711460

I'm a Christian. I'm not a fedora but I'm not a science denying retard either. My mother is a biologist and my dad a physicist.

1 Corinthians 13 is what love is. God loves us so much that He gave His only Son so we could talk with Him and have fellowship with Him. Knock and I will answer, seek and you will find when you seek me with all your heart.

>>711459

Love is the qualitative experience of willing the good of the other. It is a qualia and as such cannot be defined objectively, you know it when you feel it within you when the Holy Spirit grants it to you. It is non-physical and forms the being of God, we experience it as something within our consciousness which is also non-physical

>I'm not a fedora but I'm not a science denying retard either

You cannot reconcile Christianity with physicalism. If you believe you have a soul then it is non-physical and not tied to brain function. If you don't believe in the soul you're not a Christian. This is probably why you're having so much trouble understanding the spirit because you can't grok the idea of things that are concepts to us being real and actually having form in a higher dimension.

WE are spiritual beings that will live forever but we are a spirit that has a soul that has a body. The body or flesh will die off but, us, our spirit and soul or memories will live forever.

No flesh will inherit the kingdom of God. For God does is not flesh but those that come to Him must come to Him in Spirit and in truth

>>711465

The brain holds memories and emotion. The human spirit that interfaces with the body as far as we know (through science at least (not fedora retard science either)) only performs decision making.

>>711466

The body contains memories and the Bible suggests there is no knowledge after death.

>Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Unless you meet God you will never know true love. He is so beautiful, so loving that we as humans cannot imagine the kind of love that He has for us. The acceptance the warmth and radiance of His presence makes you break down.

Love like faith is a verb, living and active its not a noun.

When Jesus came back many times He knew the Apostles and even asked Thomas to touch the holes in His hand. It there was no memory after death then how did Jesus know all this and came back and ate with the apostles.

When Lazarus was brought back from the dead by Jesus how did he know where he was and the loved ones around him?

>>711472

So the Holy Spirit is just good will?

>>711473

Good point. I always thought there was something weird about that verse.

The Holy Spirit IS the Third person of the Trinity. He is a real person and someone the Apostles would consult and listen to where they were supposed to go in their travels.

Joh 16:7  "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 

Joh 16:8  "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 

Joh 16:9  concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 

Joh 16:10  and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 

Joh 16:11  and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. 

Joh 16:12  "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 

Joh 16:13  "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 

Joh 16:14  "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 

Joh 16:15  "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. 

>>711479

I dunno, they've also been called the three natures which could also apply well to "personae".

Mat 3:11  "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 

Act 2:1  When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 

Act 2:2  And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 

Act 2:3  And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 

Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. 

Augustine said it is like the will

Father = Memory

Son = Words

Holy Spirit = Will

Also you could say

Father = Subconscious Mind

Son = Conscious Mind

Holy Spirit = Will

Just like your thoughts are invisible and unknowable without conscious thoughts, either speaking it out loud or thinking thoughts in your mind with words, so to is the Father the invisible God that no one has seen except for a perfect image, which is the word.

If your words that you say perfectly reflect your thoughts/memory etc, then everything is good, but if not then there is an issue, you aren't working perfectly together.

Also this is what it means to be image in the image of God, that we are made in the image of the trinity. I've found this to be the best analogy for understanding the trinity, but remember, no analogy can be perfect to encapsulate all of the trinity.

And no this isn't some random nonsense I came up with, it's from St. Augustine:

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo/On_The_Trinity

https://www.krisispraxis.com/archives/2006/06/augustine-model-of-the-trinity/

I wish more people were familiar with this, instead of all the heretical stuff like oh you can be a father but also a son and also an uncle, or muh water,ice,steam etc. Once I learned about this more I was really amazed at how deep the Trinity is.

When you read about someone you dont know them and it is a persona. But when you meet them face to face then they become a person. Seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear.

So in your thoughts the subconscious mind made the world? How did that work?

>>711487

Best answer itt. Thank you.

This is the most amazing journey you will ever go on to discover God. Just like science you cannot explain advanced theories to lay people because it will be nonsense. So it is with God, but once you begin to know Him it will complete your life.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

>>711492

You know that he just rephrased what was in the paper I originally posted here >>711422

right?

>>711417

Only God can truly reveal himself, as he is beyond the human capacity to full grasp. People can talk about God, but they will never be fully accurate on their own without a divine intervention. This is actually part ofwhy the closer to God you are, the more divisive the people get. You get a bunch of religions that are close to unified, then the Abrahamic religions with thousands of sects, and Christianity the most divided of them all. Humans mess up God because we can't fully grasp him with our own knowledge, you must understand that. Ponder the story of Augustine and the child with the sea shell. Augustine was trying to understand the trinity with his own intellect, and he saw a little child carrying a seashell full of water and putting the water into a hole in the dirt.

>"what are you doing?"

>"I'm trying to put the ocean into this hole."

>"but that's impossible, you can't put the entire ocean into a tiny hole in the sand."

>"I'll be able to put the ocean into this hole before you can fully grasp the mystery of God"

and the child reveals himself to be an angel and disappear.

The human mind can not come to God on its own, we NEED God for us to come to God.

Now that you understand all that: the Holy Spirit brings us to Christ, Christ brings us to the Father. Nobody could come to the Father except through Christ, because Christ is God. In the same sense, the Holy Spirit is God bringing us to Christ. The Holy Spirit acts as an active force to guide God's children. The Holy Spirit brings us to Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ brings us to the Father. God brings us to God. Without the Holy Spirit inspiring scripture, guiding the church, answering our prayers, and especially coming upon the virgin Mary, humanity would never be able to access and reach Christ. God the Holy Spirit leads us to Christ God, Jesus Christ our God leads us to God the Father.

Now you may ask what brings us to the Holy Spirit? Is there a fourth person of God who leads us to him? No. Christ came to Earth and lead the apostles to the Holy Spirit. Christ lead the apostles to the Holy Spirit, another act of God leading people to God. Christ is fully man and fully God, so he was able to bridge the gap between the mortal apostles and the eternal God the Father. They came looking for a man, and found God. God then sent the Holy Spirit after Christ left Earth. The Holy Spirit continues to lead us to Christ every day, so we can eventually enjoy the fullness of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven

That's the best explanation for what the Holy Spirit is that I have heard

Anyone can quote scripture or other writers but are you baptized in the Spirit?

The Apostles did not understand who Jesus really was, did no miracle, denied Him and ran away from Him till one day they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and their eyes were opened and they had the power and understanding to go out and be a powerful witness for Christ and start His church.

>>711492

glad I could help bro/sis. God bless you!

>>711505

>did no miracle

um wrong, Peter walked on water (briefly) before being baptized in the Holy Spirit. And Jesus said he was sinking not because he hadn't received the Holy Spirit, but because he was not believing. Jesus said if you have just a bit of faith you can tell a mountain to move and it will, and I actually literally believe this. I think if you actually believe you can manipulate reality (miracles, such as walking on water, healing the sick, etc etc). But you need to have actual real faith.

Jesus was with Him, just as Peter put the net over the other side of the boat and pulled in a big catch. Or Jesus stilled the waters, or many of the other miracles Jesus did in the Apostles presence.

Faith the God kind of faith cannot happen without the Holy Spirit. It takes learning and our minds being renewed to the things of God. That is the work of the Spirit as we move from Glory to Glory.

Without God calling us first by His Spirit we cannot even know Him, even salvation is the work of the Spirit.

>>711513

No miracle can happen without the will of God regardless (actually nothing can) but if Jesus wanted Peter to float forever he would. Jesus clearly said that Peter was sinking because he was doubting:

And Peter answered him, “Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water.” 29 He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus; 30 but when he saw the wind,[b] he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.” 31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?

If Jesus wanted to let Peter walk it wouldn't matter if Peter was doubting or not, Jesus clearly can do anything. To say that it was from Jesus's power well everything is from God's power. All the miracles that happened after is the same too.

>>711516

are you some sort of baptist

Jesus was on this earth 33 years and His ministry did not start till He was baptized in the Jordan. What kind of example does that set to us?

So just as the woman healed with the issue of blood Jesus said your faith has made you whole. But also Jesus in His home town could not do one miracle. Because they had no faith in Him. So yes faith does play a role, but do you think that is the only thing required?

Act 1:8  but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth." 

I am the flower of the field and the lily of the valleys. I am the mother of lair love and of fear and of knowledge and of holy hope. . . . I am the mediator of the elements, making one to agree witli another; that which is warm I make cold and the reverse, and that which is dry I make moist and the reverse, and that which is hard I soften. . . . I am the law in the priest and the word in the prophet and the counsel in the wise. I will kill and I will make to live and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

What changed men from those that would deny Christ to ones who would die for Christ?

It was and is today the same, its the Holy Spirit, Just as Jesus said do not worry about what you are to say

Luk 12:11  "When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 

Luk 12:12  for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say." 

Faith will get you to act, the Spirit will perform the miracle with power. So your faith connects to the Power of the Spirit.

It takes faith to listen and do the things of the spirit. Just like love, you can love someone but until you show your love in caring or acts its not love. Its a thought.

I am a man who knows my God and has seen many miracles at my and others hands that He has done. I am gratefull to God for His mercy and love and He has brought me through some very hard situations. But in these I know that He can and will deliver me. I know He will do this for anyone that will spend time with Him and get to know Him.

oh 14:12  "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father

Joh 14:15  "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 

Joh 14:16  "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 

Joh 14:17  that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 

Joh 14:18  "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 

Either God is who and what He says He is and we have what He tells us we have or we dont. That is faith to step out and believe, but that is power that steps forward to meet our faith and make the words come true.

My word goes out and does not come back void and He is not a man that He should lie. Take the step, get all God has for you and love Him with all your heart.

>>711534

mother of lair love, really? Its not in any bible I have ever seen.

Deception is using real sounding words to nonsense so the elect will be deceived. There is only one I know who uses this type of deception and he is the father of all lies, in him there is no truth.

>>711487

Why did God walk with Adam and Eve in the garden?

What was the reason that Jesus had to die on the cross.

Both are because God WANTS a relationship with us, His creation. He says come as little children and why. He the creator of the universe does not need anything we have except the desire to love Him. He has all knowledge, why is Jesus the Good Shepard? Because we are sheep, dirt,dust, God does not paint a pretty picture of mans intelligence. Mans knowledge is earthly carnal and sometimes demonic.

The quest for knowledge is what separated Adam and Eve in the garden, do you really think that is how God wants us to come to Him. Yet God says my people are destroyed by lack of knowledge. 2 verses seemingly contradicting each other. But its the things of God that God wants us to know. We are His children, we have power over the enemy but unless we know how to use it we fail. Its this search, this journey that is a process of renewing our minds to the things of God not the world that brings us closer to Him and allows us to live a successful life.For we cannot comprehend Gods greatness in our lives. I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens us. We are created in Gods image and can even make life something no angel can do. We are truly blessed we just dont know how much.

When we get to the end of ourselves and ask God for help is when we find Him. Not by knowledge or religion. He is always there, He hears, he helps, a prayer can be as simple as help.

IF you are going through a hard time, or if you need His help or want to know Him, just ask help me God I want to know you and be expecting help. To ask is faith, its time when we come to the end of ourselves and He steps in. Bless anyone who reads this and God hear them in their cry and show yourself strong in their lives.

>>711623

Yes God is all that yet personal. If you think that God is to big to associate with people then you will never have the joy and love of a personal relationship with Him. He is big, but He is involved with the everyday life of His children being a good Father, one that we cry out ABBA Father.

>>711625

yeah, that post wasn't a full treatise on the characteristics of God, just a slap-down on OP's "What" question.

Thank you for the explanation.

The teaching on the Holy Spirit and His role in our lives is not really taught in Churches and in fact they go the other way in the teaching of Spiritual gifts and the Holy Spirit. If the question is asked it is done because the Spirit is working on his heart to find out more. The Spirit wants to reveal Himself to him so as to make him wish to go deeper into a relationship with God. Its our desire that brings us closer to God.

The question I asked one day in the middle of my problems is who is this God that I have always heard about? He answered and has been with me every step of the way and for that I am grateful.

>>711623

A person is a "what".

>>711442

You must have missed this: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1037.htm

I read a few lines of the newadvent, its interesting that words fail to describe God. One thing is God IS love, Its something that in His presence you feel and radiates from Him. Just like all the NDE experiences in His presence try to describe the experience all fail. Humans cannot describe the Glory or vision they have of God, since there is nothing to compare or relate to, for a comparison. When you are in His presence the acceptance and love, compassion, safety, peace joy you feel is not something this world has to offer. This experience of God usually does not come without spending sometime with Him. Since I doubt we as humans have the ability to take it all in until we change a bit. You see its our experiences that give us the ability to relate to the world. But if none of your experiences are this joyful or loving we are left with an experience that makes an impression but sometimes cannot experience all the depth of it. In the movie Robots with Will Smith the creator of the Robots was dead and all that was left was a hologram recording and unless you asked the right question you would not get be able to get the whole picture. We dont even know how to ask the right questions of God since we have no experience or learning to base or relate to allowing us to understand God or His love unless we personally experience it and grow. We change from glory to glory in the bible description.

This is the basis of the wrong understanding of the Holy Spirit in the initial post and the subsequent questions. A dollar to a child has no value, no worth, no application since they have never learned what money can do. That is why each persons relationship is different in the Lord. We all seek differently, for different needs, so we get different perspectives and experiences. God does not change the ability of humans to relate to and understand God does.

The bible says we do not even know how we should pray but the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groaning and utterances that are to deep for words. The Holy Spirit is the one here on earth working to bring man into the presence and knowledge of God. He is the comforter, a person, the seal for the day of redemption and the one that walks with us and even helps us pray. God never left His children alone, thank God for the Holy Spirit, sometimes called the Spirit of Truth.

Holy Spirit is another name for God, he is God.

What are you confused about? Don't you know God?

He’s an invisible omnipresent being that convicts the hearts of sinners, strengthens believers and is the true author of the Bible.

Maybe someday we’ll know what he actually looks like (he can take form like at the baptism of Jesus) but for right now, you can sense him in moments of holiness and serenity, or even righteous anger.

what he is NOT is a female entity, and any argument saying he is can be debunked by anyone with a basic understanding of Biblical languages

>>711462

You're clearly a materialist. It's very hard to reconcile that with Christianity. Why don't you explain how you've done it.

>>711422

this is your mind on Filioque

>consciousness

>noosphere

>love

>communication

>wind

>will

>people

How can there be so much divergeance concerning something so fundamental to the faith?

Read "On the Holy Spirit" by St. Basil.

>>711417

He is God. The Third person of the Trinity. He is proceeding from the Father.

The confusion comes from his name. We have the Father and the Son, so clear concepts of person-hood can be applied. Yet Spirit or Ghost implies a vaguer "force". You mustn't fall into this trap. The Holy Spirit is fully a person as much as the Son is and as much as the Father is.

I always thought of it as the representation of our collective consciousness and not a singular being, or at least this is what I was told in my youth at church.

The whole love thing kinda makes sense in this regard since love is prevalent within us all. Today, I'm not to sure what it is. It kinda sounds like our equivalent of the black hole. Christians are not exactly sure what exactly is it, but they're pretty sure it's a thing.

>>712840

Thank you for that comic. It has put into perspective what I've been theorising about. WOuld you know what it means to do everything for the glory of god?

>>711536 You have helped me to understand who He is and what his purpose is. I've been reading the bible I've been baptised a few times (I don't know where to go or what to do) I know it isn't like you must do this and this and this to be saved. it's so much more complicated than that I realise. How am I to start in todays busy world. I don't want to be saltless. I feel so close to the answer but I'm in the middle of the Pacific drowning so to speak. Can you help me Brothers and Sisters?

>>712838

>I always thought of it as the representation of our collective consciousness and not a singular being

>at least this is what I was told in my youth at church.

What kind of heretic church did you go to

Its amazing the religious can read the books on the saints but forget to read and research their bible on things like the Holy Spirit. If you rely on mans interpretation then you have missed the point.and missed the most important thing a personal relationship with God.

You treat God as if He is dead and talk at Him instead of talking to Him, One speaks of knowledge the other of faith. God is alive, active and His word is sharper than a two edged sword. Why not ask Him to reveal Himself to you and then you will understand who the Spirit actually is.

If God wanted anyone to teach His children how to have a relationship with Him He would have told us and God did.

Joh 14:26  "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 

Act_2:38  Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act_13:2  While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."

Act_13:4  So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Act_13:9  But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him,

Act_15:28  "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:

Act_20:23  except that the Holy Spirit solemnly testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions await me.

1Co_6:19  Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2Pe_1:21  for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Joh 3:11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Joh 3:12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

The above are clearly acts of a person or what makes a person their own spirit. As an example in the valley of dry bones the bones rose up and became flesh when prophesied to. But it took the God giving them a spirit to have life. Without a spirit there is no life. Flesh does not have life without a spirit, we are a spirit being with a body. Jesus on the cross said it is finished and gave up His spirit and the body died. It is this spirit that understands and craves spiritual things since no flesh inherits the kingdom of God and is not able to do so. God is not desirous of our body but our spirit that calls unto Him. Dont be so foolish to think you can perfect with knowledge and the body that which is spiritual.

I have to say though that any church that speaks of collective consciousness sounds like the the synagogue of satan. That is blaspheming the Holy Spirit in attributing mans lunacy to the perfection of Gods spirit.

>>712870

Church of the Nazarene, an Evangelical denomination. We used to have a old traditional-ish guy, but everyone since seem to get a bit fruitier than the last.

>>712790

>Probably the most underrated post here yet.

Even on this board there's several interpretation of the Holy Spirit.

While there are denominations, how is this not a problem for Christians in general that there isn't some kind of quality control among Churches over the more critical elements of Christianity? Will this kind of confusion ever be fixed?

To those that say its hard,

Its really not, its by faith. If you accepted Jesus as your Lord with desire in your heart then you are saved.

Now you have what God said you have even if you dont feel like it. You are a Son of God but now you need to have your mind renewed to walk and see the things in the spirit that you already have.

Rom 8:7  because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 

If you keep on with reading the bible seeking God, Your understanding will change and God will show you the things you ask. We are not under the law, that commands you to do something in order to be saved which is designed for the flesh.

When we do what God says to do, we have what God said we have, but that does not mean we know how to walk or use what we have. That is revelation to our spirit, as that gets built up and we start to walk by the spirit and use spiritual gifts.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 

Rom 8:3  For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 

Rom 8:4  so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 

Rom 8:5  For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 

Rom 8:6  For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 

Rom 8:7  because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 

Rom 8:8  and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 

Rom 8:9  However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 

Those who call the Holy Spirit an it are using fleshly descriptions to describe a spiritual person. I wonder what Jesus would be to these people after the resurrection? When he sits at the right hand of the Father is He flesh or spirit? What was He in John when He was the Word and the Word was God and is God. He was not a person then? LOL

In this is Jesus a spirit or flesh, if spirit I guess He is an it according to those here. What do you suppose the sharp two edged sword is?

Rev 1:16  In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. 

Rev 1:17  When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 

Rev 1:18  and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. 

Rev 1:19  "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. 

Gen 3:6  When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes,

and that the tree was desirable to make one wise,

she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 

Gen 3:7  Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings. 

Be careful in the knowledge you acquire, is it from man or from God for only God can reveal Himself to you and He wants so much to have a relationship with you and reveal who He is to you.

Give the Holy Spirit the due respect that HE deserves, not an it or thing it only shows that most have not a clue what the Spirit of God is or even how God operates. It also shows that most do not walk into the blessings of God because they do not have a clue who God is and what He has given us. None of this is learned by the thought of man but by God through His spirit revealing this to us and changing human thoughts to minds to accept the wonderful things of God and to accept a place that God has given us long before the creation of man. For a time we are a little lower than angels but how will we rule and reign with God if we dont understand who we are, what we have been given and how to walk in our path that God has given us, with Him.

Psa_51:11  Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Isa_63:11  Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,

Mat_1:18  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

Luk_4:1  Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness

I thought it was similar to the Hindu concept of Brahman and Atman, where Brahman is the divine ultimate reality and transcendent ground of existence, and Atman is both within the human body until death and also the same as (but distinct from) Brahman, similar to the Trinitarian doctrine.

Act 2:38  Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 

Act 2:39  "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." 

Eph 4:30  Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 

It seems that many have not understood and underestimated not only the Holy Spirit but God Himself. He has NOT left us alone.

Religious teaching is bondage to the true relationship that God wants with you.

If the Apostles were unlearned men, as witnessed by many, how did they set the world on fire, heal the sick, raise the dead, and do the works Jesus Himself did?

Would you like to do the same? Would you like to walk out of your present situation?

Why would you worry about anything in your life with this power and relationship available to you? It doesn't matter what the problem is, just ask God for Help and ask Him to take away the problems in your life as you continue to find out about your relationship with Him. Set your mind on Him and talk to Him as to a loving Father and let Him do the work in your life that needs to be done. God formed the worlds and created you for this time, dont you think He has the power and want to have a personal relationship with you. Not a far off distant relationship but personal one on one. He already has it on His side, wouldn't it be nice to find out what your missing on your side?

Luk 11:9  "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 

Luk 11:10  "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 

Luk 11:11  "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 

Luk 11:12  "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 

Luk 11:13  "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" 

Theology has its place but can be the great separator of man and a personal relationship with his God all for the pride of man.

When Jesus came he called the pharisees white washed tombs, because the law of sin and death, similar to theology today and it would never bring man into right relationship with God. It gives rules and regulations that never would bring us into right relationship to Him. That is why we have a new and better covenant with Jesus since we could not keep the Old covenant or Old Testament. A covenant that always witnessed a new and better way with Jesus as the head. For if man could have kept the old covenant there would have been no reason for a new one.

>>718104

What do any of your rambling posts have to do with the OP question? Sage for off-topic.

>>718107

>>718322

When does scripture describing the Holy Spirit since the OP question is what is the Holy Spirit become off topic? May Sound like its off topic to those who are religious or do not or cannot understand. Do you have anything to add to the conversation or just complaints?

So what would the working of the Holy Spirit look like?

The easiest way is to see the work of the Spirit is if you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior that is the Holy Spirit at work in you.

The real problem in not knowing who the Holy Spirit is the fact we don't see the signs that the Holy Spirit is working. We attribute much of the small workings of the Holy Spirit to our own thoughts and actions. But if you have a hunger for God and want to know Him more that is the work of the Spirit. You see salvation and being open to salvation is the work of the spirit.

1Co 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,

so that we may know the things freely given to us by God

It is by His spirit, the Holy Spirit that we know what has been given and done for us by God.

The Holy Spirit was in the Old Testament also and was with many in the Old Testament.

Psa 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

How do you understand or describe what the Holy Spirit is to a natural man that does not understand the things of the spirit? By describing deeds, actions, relationships,words of the Spirit, who valued the Spirit, how to have a relationship, what the Spirit has done you can get an idea of who the Holy Spirit is. Kind of like asking about you and describing who you are to someone, without actually meeting you.

Unless you meet the Holy Spirit personally you will never fully understand who the Holy Spirit is and be fooled by men's descriptions of Him. The nonsense that men espouse about the Spirit is because they have not a clue who He is, what He does and what His purpose is. Its really not a secret its written in your bible if you would read and research. If you ask to know Him or ask God for the batisim of the Holy Spirit anyone can and should come into the fullness of their relationship with Jesus the Christ.

1Co 3:1  And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 

>>711418

This probably falls under "evil is the opposite of good" theology. Which is incorrect by the way.

>>711417

As for OP.

I don't see why this question exists, though I probably just didn't think about it enough. It would be like getting confused over "What is The Son?" or "What is the Father?".

Very well said and to the point

Rom 8:14  For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

Rom 8:15  For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 

Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 

Without the Holy Spirit there is no christian walk.

He wrote the scriptures and who interprets them for believers?

The Holy Spirit was the father of Jesus.

Luk 1:35  The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. 

The Power that the Holy Spirit must have to take the Word, Jesus and come upon Mary and make the Word a seed for life for you and me.

So now WHO is the Holy Spirit?

>>711417

I really liked this series by William Lane Craig. He has lots of other series examining different viewpoints within Christian faith across history and gives his own take on the logical soundness of them.

All these responses and nobody mentions Shekhinah.

>>719287

>Shekhinah

The topic is the Holy Spirit not the Glory of God.

If you have the Holy Spirit in your life then there will be evidence. When you speak about someone you know personally, you speak differently than if you learned everything about that person from reading it.

That is the problem with some teaching about the Holy Spirit is, its not head knowledge that is going to bring you into a relationship with Him, its one on one time, thats it. The Holy Spirit brings power, healing, gifts, miracles, offices, and so much more. If you learn about the Holy Spirit I would want to learn from someone who the Holy Spirit works through. Dry teachings dont build up faith and gifts and dont tell you how to have a relationship with Him. Its all in what you are looking for, if you want knowledge then have at it if you want a deeper relationship with God then do what the Apostles did and ask the Holy Spirit into your life. Its really simple, doesn't require a PHD and God wants to bless you with the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Either you have all that God says you have or you settle for less by not finding the truth in what has been given you. God gave examples in the Apostles and Jesus and those filled with the spirit. They did not guess on who the Spirit was they knew Him intimately. In the journey to find who you are in God you find the Holy Spirit and all the gifts, talents and traits that make up who you are as a person.

The scripture is we are changed from glory to glory. We do not even understand the realm that God operates in or that our spirit longs for in the natural. But God renews our minds and reveals to us spiritual truths that allow us to walk not by the flesh but by the spirit.

God takes away the ideas and notions on who we are that are burdens and gives you the directions on how to seek what is good for you. Sometimes there is doubt but even in doubt God shows He is strong and leads you to where you need to be. To who you are and what you were made for. He shows you how to stop the enemy from stealing from you and comforts and guides you into a path for life and not death. No matter where you go He is there, no matter what you face in life cling to Him who loves you and let Him guide you and show you the truth of who you are. NO matter what sin, lie or hopeless thought the enemy tries to hit you with cling to the one that can remove all of this and put your feet on solid ground. Then you will know who the Holy Spirit is and what He does.

>>719287

A Talmudic term that does not even appear in the Old Testament.