/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>707462

Depends …

Are you genuinely interested or will this be another /pol/ "omg da jooos!" thread?

>>707462

Why don't these people just call themselves Christian?

>>707467

Genuinely interested.

a jew is a jew

>>707462

I once asked an Orthodox Jew what they thought about the Hamessianics. He said, "We have a word for those! We call them "Christians"."

>>707480

/pol/ pls go and stay go

>>707462

Sounds like an oxymoron

>>707468

This.

If they're Christian, why are they still identifying as Jews? I don't think it's a coincidence that the pseudo-Christian kikes that just want to co-opt Christianity to support Israel always self-identify as Messianic Jews.

>>707462

They seem a little confused, I'll give them that much. That's kind of like an avowed Muslim that prays the Rosary…

>>707539

>If they're Christian, why are they still identifying as Jews?

The earliest followers of Jesus still identified as Jews. What do you think the Council of Jerusalem was about? Messianic Judaisim is a legitimate form of Christianity since the councils decision was that ethnic Christian Jews must continue to observe the Torah while gentile Christians did not.

>>707584

>The earliest followers of Jesus still identified as Jews

And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

>What do you think the Council of Jerusalem was about?

It was about heretics trying to continue the old covenant

>Messianic Judaisim is a legitimate form of Christianity since the councils decision was that ethnic Christian Jews must continue to observe the Torah while gentile Christians did not.

No it isn't, and no it wasn't. You are creating a distinction between Jews and Gentiles that does not exist. Read Galatians, read Romans. Jews and Gentiles share the same covenant in Jesus Christ, they do not experience their relationship with God in different ways. Unless a Jew becomes a Christian, he does not have Christ.

The moral law only remains.

>>707586

>It was about heretics trying to continue the old covenant

James and Peter were "heretics"? It was their decision that ethnic Jews must continue to observe the Torah while Gentiles didn't.

>R. Emden, in a remarkable apology for Christianity contained in his appendix to "Seder 'Olam" (pp. 32b-34b, Hamburg, 1752), gives it as his opinion that the original intention of Jesus, and especially of Paul, was to convert only the Gentiles to the seven moral laws of Noah and to let the Jews follow the Mosaic law—which explains the apparent contradictions in the New Testament regarding the laws of Moses and the Sabbath.

>>707586

>Unless a Jew becomes a Christian, he does not have Christ.

Messianic Jews who observe Torah and believe Jesus was the Messiah are Christians and are saved.

>>707590

>James and Peter were "heretics"?

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware they spoke for the judaizers

>It was their decision that ethnic Jews must continue to observe the Torah

That is a lie. Cite the scripture. On the other hand

<Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

<For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

<But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

There is absolutely no scriptural basis for the continuation of a covenantal distinction which was dissolved in the blood of Christ.

>>R. Emden, in a remarkable apology for Christianity contained in his appendix to "Seder 'Olam" (pp. 32b-34b, Hamburg, 1752), gives it as his opinion that the original intention of Jesus, and especially of Paul, was to convert only the Gentiles to the seven moral laws of Noah and to let the Jews follow the Mosaic law

As soon as "R. Emden" becomes the Holy Spirit I will care.

>>707591

It is heresy to divide the covenant between Jews and Gentiles. Everyone who believes in Jesus is a brother, they are to worship together and in the exact same way. There are not different rules for them, since they are all the children of Abraham.

They are exceptions to ordinary jews and far too low in numbers to have any relevance. But any group, it doesn't matter who, that has uses the Star of Remphan unironically is against God

The Jews used to and in fact still do curse us in their Devilish synagogues. Three times a day Jewish men must pray the Amidah. In the Admidah includes the Birkat haMinim (The "Blessing" of the Heretics). It was composed at the end of the 1st century or beginning of the 2nd century, likely after the hypothetical Council of Jamnia, when the Jews formally began expelling Christians from the synagogues as heretics. The "blessing" reads as such:

>"For the apostates let there be no hope. And let the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days. Let the Nazarenes (Christians) and the heretics (Sadducees, Essenes, and Gnostics) be destroyed in a moment. And let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be inscribed together with the righteous. Blessed art thou, O Lord, who humblest the arrogant."

Talmudic "Judaism" is evil. They are literally Pharisees. The Star of Judaism is a Kabbalistic symbol that has nothing to do with Biblical Judaism. As Christians, we are the true Jews, Talmdusits are devils! Obviously we must pray for their salvation, yet their religion has nothing to do with ours!

Now, there are certain practices from Biblical Judaism that may still be done today, but of course only Christians with a Jewish background or who are apart of a Church that retains a lot of Biblical Jewish customs such as my Church (Ethiopian Orthodox Church) may practice them, and gentiles or those of Churches who do not have these customs should stay in their lane. But things that are not from Biblical Judaism which many Messianics still retain are things like the Satanic Jewish star and the Talmud and many post-Temple developments.

If Messianic Judaism wasn't just a Protestant Talmudist movement I may not mind it as much but it is. Those Messianics who reject the Talmud I commend as true Jewish Christian brothers and sisters who have come to Jesus (who they call "Ye-shuah"). But the fact is is that many of them still believe in the Talmud.

>>707462

>Thoughts on Messianic Judaism?

They bring a lot of linguistic and theological insight to the body of Christ that's sorely needed.. but a lot of them are just TV type charismatics and have a lot of modern innovations/fluff associated with those.

Aborted child of Christianity and Judaism. In other words a disgusting heresy.

>>707468

Because people then would probably greentext "Jewish" "Christians".

Speaking seriously though, the Jews evidently occupied a prominent role in the advent of Christianity. What Jews did convert in the past probably wound up joining which ever church suited them, but now the question would be complicated as to what they would do when converting to Christianity en masse. The ideal would be for their valuable Hebraic tradition to be incorporated and preserved rather than be condemned from memory like some trollglodytes on here would probably want.

>>707894

>Because people then would probably greentext "Jewish" "Christians".

>

>Speaking seriously though, the Jews evidently occupied a prominent role in the advent of Christianity. What Jews did convert in the past probably wound up joining which ever church suited them, but now the question would be complicated as to what they would do when converting to Christianity en masse. The ideal would be for their valuable Hebraic tradition to be incorporated and preserved rather than be condemned from memory like some trollglodytes on here would probably want.

I agree with all of that. It'd be no different than Greeks/Syrians/Irish incorporating cultural elements in their liturgies or songs.

Before this though, Christianity had some great saints who were Jewish, but just incorporated into medieval Catholicism. Like St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross.

>>707900

Apparently some eastern churches might have been influenced by a mix of Hellenistic, Jewish, and Syrian traditions such as the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, the Syrian Orthodox, and the Melkites.

I've felt that Syrian Orthodoxy could be closet to the tradition and atmosphere of what the early churches might have been.

Ethiopian Orthodox are another who have a lot of Judaic customs.

>>707462

>Accepted Jesus

>Is still a Jew

Pick one Anon.

If you truly accept Christ you become Christian. If not you go to hell anyways. There is no middle ground. Why not call yourself a Christian?

Also read st. John Chrysostom. It will get your views clear and based on those issues. It helped me