/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

There's plenty of Americans on here, and I think a few South Americans as well. I've never encountered any hatred based on country between anons on this board. Stop trying to start drama. It's bad enough we have Gnostics and Aztecs posting again here now, and also all the inter-faith fighting besides.

>>707415

DONE in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth.

- Constitution of the United States of America, Article VII

America is a Christian nation. It's just lost it's way. No different from how Israel lost it's way in the days of the prophets. God will correct us through judgment though and soon all the faggots and dykes will be wiped out.

>>707453

I hope so. The prots are brainwashed into oblivion by the jews and the autism is spreading to Catholics just by being around them. I think I should take a long trip to Poland just to cleanse myself of the autism and see what pure Catholics believe.

>>707456

Orthodoxy is the best tbh.

/K/RISTIAN

>>707415

I'm not anti-American. I am American. Born and raised and I can trace my lineage back to landing in Massachusetts in 1640.

However, I believe we can improve.

I believe that America is an Anti-Christian Babylon. I see it more as a case of the generations progressively sowing bad seeds and letting them grow to choke out most of the good ones. A good farmer knows that he doesn't reap thorns, but burns them to the root, till the soil, and sow good seed. We need to reform.

>>707499

Forgot embed

American is a Masonic-Luciferian nation.

>>707490

Remember there are Christanons here who are American and are zealous. Do you hope for them to be killed?

>>707499

I disagree, since everyone else took the bait I'll make a more cogent response. America is simply the number one source of Christian activity in the world at all; both orthodox and heretical. Consider this, just in the Catholic Church alone: on the bad, you have many of the predator priests, you have much modernizing heresy germinating from there, and much controversy overall. Not to mention the poor state of the secular society, protecting them!

On the good however, the main source of those individuals within the Church combating these corrupt sections of Rome are only really found the sphere of the Monroe Doctrine. What hemisphere are you finding the most activity to arrest homosexual priests; and what nation in particular a RICO possibly on Rome itself? Where are Church Militant, Lifesite, One Peter Five and all these other news outlets that have been at the tip of the spear in this matter on the internet, where are they based out of? Detroit. The US East Coast. Virginia. Earlier still, ETWN in the 90s in the US South. And that is just a small sampling in this regard, there are others still smaller but with an audience. Nowhere else do you see this kind of activity, indeed many of the news links on this board (if they are not sourced from a mainstream publication) are from those places.

And speaking of the United States by itself, not even talking of the other countries connected to it, in only 300 years it has produced a surprising number of saints. St. Elizabeth Seton, and her unmatched charity and piety in early US history. St. Kateri Tekakwitha, a redskin who converted and was healed of wounds through miracle. Katharine Drexel. And if you want to include transplants who naturalized, no less than John Neumann, and Mother Teresa herself of course. And more will soon follow like Sheen, Bridget McCrory, and Pierre Toussaint.

And that is only contained to Catholicism. Needless to say a great many are Protestants; many in error, but some doing the best they can given the circumstances that are naturally troublesome for them anyway. And Eastern Orthodoxy, is seeing great strides with younger people who are falling away from the other two.

So the US is very much a Christian nation. Imperfect, of course, but at least trying. The leaders? Not so much. But I would hope people here are not so simpleminded to conflate the two. Otherwise, I should all tie the fate of Germans to the actions of Merkle…or the French to Macron, or Sarkosy; a gross over-simplification (and probably rather insulting as well). Secular governments are always the workshop of the Devil, that's only gummed up to do a good thing occasionally when a Christian sabotages it.

>>707552

There are lots of American Catholics here brainlet

>>707559

Self-hating natural traitors.

>>707552

>the pope has two powers

If recent history is any indication those powers are off the cuff remarks and attracting the attention of police officers…

>>707546

>because some good people are American I cant wish that the most evil government to exist should cease existing

>>707552

protestants are now unironically arguing that we should put government before faith

>>707415

>America

>A Christian nation

US-GAY US-GAY US-GAY US-GAY

>>707568

>putting faith in a government under the guise of a church

>>707568

>faith

So you admit the pope is your god? I mean if he is the object of your faith he is your god, and if he is not he does not deserve more loyalty than your nation

>>707582

Obedience to God = Obedience to Gods Church. The Catholic Church is the church Christ founded and contains the doctrines necessary for salvation. You must put the Church, which represents God on Earth, before any national ties. Putting your nation ahead of the church Jesus Christ founded upon Peter the rock is idolatry.

>>707585

Putting some creepy pedokikes in the vatican before your nation is treason. I would think that God values faith, not ritualistically clinging to the corrupt and heretical catholic church.

>>707592

>And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men

Treason is irrelevant. You must follow God, not men, and salvation only exists within the Catholic Church.

>>707585

>Obedience to God = Obedience to Gods Church

So you do admit it. At least we've gotten some intellectual honesty out of you

>The Catholic Church is the church Christ founded

It is not. Christ founded two things which can be called churches. His local congregation, and His spiritual congregation that transcends time and place. Rome is neither, as the former had no pastor but Himself, and the latter has neither an extravagant hierarchy, nor a human priesthood. And of course, there is absolutely nothing like a pope in either one.

>and contains the doctrines necessary for salvation

It anathematizes them. Paul tells us a man is justified by faith alone, and to that Rome said "let him be anathema". Because the Roman church has cursed the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and prostituted its own false gospel of works in ots place, there can be no salvation inside that church.

>You must put the Church, which represents God on Earth, before any national ties

The pope of Rome is not only not the head of Jesus Christ's Church, but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God. He not only deserves no obedience, but it is a grave sin to give him any.

>Putting your nation ahead of the church Jesus Christ founded upon Peter the rock is idolatry.

We are commanded by God to be faithful to our own. The only one who deserves more loyalty than them is God Himself. Again, to put the pope in that spot is to make him equal with God. What is idolatry is to raise a man to godhood. Nobody is our master but Jesus Christ.

>>707593

I will follow God, but my God is not the pope.

>>707595

>Paul tells us a man is justified by faith alone

No he doesn't. That's a deliberate misreading of Paul rebuking Judaizers for telling people to follow the Mosaic law. Paul says you need to work towards salvation with fear and trembling.

>and to that Rome said "let him be anathema"

Rightfully so because it is corrupt, heretical doctrine that Paul, Peter, James and John would have said is satanic.

>The pope of Rome is not only not the head of Jesus Christ's Church

He is, the Bishop of Rome is the head of the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church.

>We are commanded by God to be faithful to our own

Your own are true Christians who exist within the body of Christ which is the Catholic Church.

>I will follow God

Clearly you won't because when God gave Peter authority over his Church on Earth you refuse to listen and instead create your own man made doctrines such as sola fide and sola scriptura in order to convince yourself that you're saved when you are in reality damned.

>>707592

>being obedient to the person God told you to be obedient to is treason.

Ok I'm treasonous then. When it comes to following God or nation, it's always God. There is no question. I dont give a shit for my nation is it walks away from God, which is what it's done its entire existence.

>>707593

>>707608

Well, seeing as you agree you papists are traitors, you must also agree it would be good for your nations to imprison you and give you the dishonorable death traitors deserve

>>707610

I would die for my faith before my nation, as for you it seems like it’s the other way around.

>>707415

OP your question has been answered ITT. I don’t necessarily hate Americans, I just hate how pride in this country has become a religion. We are to always follow the country with the utmost sacrifice and those who question it are to be damned. Didn’t the people who started this country did it so we may question our leaders, our government, not to blindly follow it? This country had some ideals, but now they’re dead because we put secular law over Gods law, nationalistic pride over Gods love, the government itself over Gods church. This is why I no longer have hope for this country, this is why I believe this country is not a Christian nation. Instead, this country has become the new Rome.

>>707610

>Fellow Christians should be executed for putting the gospel above their nation

Yeah pretty sure you're a LARPer. Your democracy is completely controlled and subverted by Godless Atheists and you'll still put it on a pedestal and place the laws of men above the laws of God. I answer to God alone, you have fun worshipping your flag and citing the pledge of allegiance at Church

>>707595

>>The Catholic Church is the church Christ founded

>It is not. Christ founded two things which can be called churches. His local congregation, and His spiritual congregation that transcends time and place. Rome is neither, as the former had no pastor but Himself, and the latter has neither an extravagant hierarchy, nor a human priesthood. And of course, there is absolutely nothing like a pope in either one.

>>707595

>>The Catholic Church is the church Christ founded

>It is not. Christ founded two things which can be called churches. His local congregation, and His spiritual congregation that transcends time and place. Rome is neither, as the former had no pastor but Himself, and the latter has neither an extravagant hierarchy, nor a human priesthood. And of course, there is absolutely nothing like a pope in either one.

Lol. Read the Church Fathers. St. Ignatius of Antioch especially.

>>707618

Sorry for tue wrong format

>>707617

You're not Christians, you have no gospel, you're the dedicated slaves of a hostile foreign king. You're just a knife in the back, and that's why you should be converted, or purged.

>>707621

If you were in Rome at the time of Nero you'd be cheering on the Romans feeding Christians to lions because they're "treasonous".

>you have no gospel

The gospel of the Catholic Church is the only true gospel. There is no salvation outside of it, no matter what lies Protestants try to create to justify their satanic doctrines.

>>707623

>If you were in Rome at the time of Nero you'd be cheering on the Romans feeding Christians to lions because they're "treasonous".

Except I don't worship some Argentine sodomite who wants to rule the world, I worship Jesus Christ, who commands us to love our peoples.

>>707625

Catholics don't worship the Pope. He is the Vicar of Christ, the one who sits in the chair of Saint Peter, the Bishop of Rome. The rock on which Christ said his church would sit. Stop believing ridiculous lies in Chick tracts and accept the truth, the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ.

>>707626

>Catholics don't worship the Pope

So why do you repeatedly call him God in this thread?

>>707585

>Obedience to God

>>707593

>You must follow God

>>707608

>When it comes to following God

>>707617

>I answer to God alone

>>707621

Yes, real Christians have always been persecuted for not owing allegiance to foreign Gods/governments.

>>707567

Maybe in foreign adventures, sure, although on the internal social plane I wouldn't go quite that far at all. European countries made the first strides on abortion/contraception and homosexuality wayyy before the US ever did. The Weimar Republic legalized abortion (using the "only if the mother's in danger" excuse, still it was allowed) and the Nazi's just tooled around with that allowance for eugenics, a good 30-40 years before Roe v Wade. In the US, if memory serves me correctly it was a felony in every state except I think New York and Washington State (the place north of Oregon, not DC with the President), though there was some softening in about a dozen of them just before that verdict. And then with gay marriage, same thing. France for example had "civil unions" (ahem) in the late 90s, although those were re-banned for a short time IIRC (back now though, and as fully fledged "marriage").

One harms others, the other harms itself. Is murder or suicide worse? Personally I see them as both the same thing.

>>707616

>I just hate how pride in this country has become a religion

Well, noone wants to hate their own country, or their own people either. I personally feel very bad for a lot of Americans that have been taken for a ride by their government. Same with many of the European countries, some of the things I hear about the core countries are positively heartbreaking. None of them are looking out for the health of their own nation-state, which is quite shameful.

The thing is to balance that lower form of love so it does not become an unhealthy expression, and make it congruent with the Word.

>nationalistic pride over Gods love

…hmm. I mean is that targeted at the "USA USA" specifically or the current pan-Western political mood in general? If it's the former, then we can go into that. But if it's the latter, I might have to question your motives slightly, since I think that overall change is doing some good. For example Salvini in Italy, who is dealing with the Freemasons (which the Vatican apparently can't manage, probably because they'd lose all the staff at Vatican Bank). I'm not sure about his economic policy but in other areas he has a strong start.

If you are concerned about some of the non-thiest tenor about these changes, I actually blame *us* for that. I mean think about it, who's going to listen to the Pope about sexual morality, when you have all this rape going on in churches across the world where it's hidden from police and yet discussed hugga-mugga in seminaries like it's a big joke? Or warnings about violations of "just war", when many churches then turn around and demand countries not enforce their own immigration laws because they are getting money under the table from NGOs/immigrant activist groups?

It's embarrassing to say the Dalai Lama, who is a virtual New Age apostate in opposition to the Body of Christ, recently (probably by accident) demonstrated more legal and moral clarity on that last particular matter than Pope Francis. "Take them in for a short period of time, make sure they are healthy, and don't attack their countries anymore, but for Heaven's sake they must go back and perform their own moral duty to rebuild their homeland". If someone with authority here said that as the head of a church, and then suggested we set up a Marshal Plan-style construct in perfect charity to the damage in some of these countries, that would be the biggest breath of fresh air. But that is not happening and people can discern it. Which is why the resurgence of traditionalism is not presently including the most European tradition of all, in large part!

Well, that's one rant out of the way…

>>707626

>>707633

…it's really quite incredible how easy it is for any thread topic to slide into "Prots vs Caths calling each other heretics again for 1 trillionth time".

>>707642

No doubt Europe is just as bad, if not worse than America, you are correct there. But right now America is the force behind it. Right now America enforces the secular agenda across the world, with it's UN/EU puppets. Equally I'd say "Death to France" or "Death to Czech republic", but it sounds goofy. When we say "Death to America", everyone knows exactly what me mean and why we mean it.

>>707633

Why would you assume that I'm talking about the Pope when I say "God"? Are you retarded? Obedience to God necessarily means obedience to the ones who God imbues with authority. You can't say that you follow God while simultaneously giving the finger to the Apostles and saying you'll make your own doctrine and you can't say that you follow God unless you obey the one whom God has given authority over his church, the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

>>707651

>Why would you assume that I'm talking about the Pope when I say "God"?

Because that's obviously who you're talking about, as you prove when you say

>Obedience to God necessarily means obedience to the ones who God imbues with authority

So you admit you've been talking about the pope. You've been talking about following God and obeying God but when we ignore the nice terminology and look at the only way your words could be practically applied it's obvious you're talking about the pope. This whole time you've been proving my point that the Romish god is the pope, so that loyalty to the pope is the same thing as faithfulness to your god, and this is why you're natural traitors. And don't bother with the autistic response about how Catholics don't worship the pope. I'm well aware you don't call him a god or call your spiritual subjugation worship. That's obviously not the point, but papists seem so weak minded you think what you call something is what matters and what something actually is doesn't. Like how when someone points out the obvious fact you worship idols, your only counter-argument is that you don't call it worship and you don't call them idols. Unbelievable.

>You can't say that you follow God while simultaneously giving the finger to the Apostles and saying you'll make your own doctrine

Funny, that's exactly what the pope does

>>707662

>So you admit you've been talking about the pope

No, the Pope is a person whom God imbues with authority. Gods will is that you obey the Pope. In obeying the Pope you are doing Gods will not because the Pope is God but because God demands you submit to authority, particularly authority that he places in power, like David. If any of the ancient Jews gave David the finger and said "We won't obey you we only obey God" they would be doing the exact opposite of what they claim because God willed that all Jews obey David as their King. Likewise God wills that all Christians obey the Bishop of Rome because God placed him in that position so that his will is done.

>>707415

Because it is becoming an anti-Christian nation

>>707415

Imagine a world without America:

>no retarded prot cults even worse than Europeans

>no liberalism

>no secularism

>no separation of state and church

>no gays

>no abortions

>no useless wars because some country refuses to suck America's dick

>no widespread pornography

>no movies that encourage fornication

>no sexual revolution

Let's say it once more

DEATH TO AMERICA!

>>707667

What was David? He was the earthly king of Israel. But in the new covenant, Israel is not tied to a nation, Israel is a spiritual kingdom. So if you have a figure with supreme authority over the spiritual kingdom, you have a spiritual king. Either the king is Jesus Christ or it is the pope, but it cannot be both. The pope has become the master of your soul, you obey his every decree. God may have given authority to David, but He never gave him authority that belongs only to Him. Your argument that the pope was appointed by God is not an argument that you don't worship the pope as a living god, it's an argument for worshipping the pope as a living god. The premise is that the pope should have the power over our souls that only our god can have, and the argument is that God gave him this godhood. When obedience to someone is an act of faith, that man is god over you.

Now God did not give this authority to any Christian, but "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves". Christ unequivocally cuts down any notion of supremacy or sovereignty within His Church. The apostles were quarreling over who was superior to whom, but Christ declares equality between them. Hence every pastor is equal with another, and none commands obedience, but they are mere servants, serving to lead the church in worship and teach it the word of God. Indeed, there is not even truly a distinction between laity and clergy, but the clerics are just learned elders taken out from amongst the Church.

>>707672

>becoming

It's always been inherintly anti-Christian, even from the start. All the founding fathers were deists and their ideology was secular liberalism. Having a lot of Christians living under it's tyranny does not make it Christian

>>707691

You can repeat yourself all you want, nobody believes that Catholics literally worship the Pope as God. Not even Steven Anderson is that retarded.

I'm not particularly anti-american, europe is pretty much garbage too.

>>707415

america is modern babylon

>>707415

>Why is /christian/ so anti-American? == America a Christian nation! ==

There are a lot of great individual Christians, but the country itself may as well be serving Moloch.

Lets be clear here:

I like America, especially its country culture and national parks, and I have met Americans that were really great people (Including one Jew).

But people in upper echelons in your country are actively promoting faggotry and degeneracy in the world.

I like Americans but I dislike America as a state.

>>707727

I completely agree. But you surely you see that's a completely different sentiment from saying "death to America" or saying America is an evil anti-Christian freemasonic nation like some in this thread are?

America was never a Christian nation.

The fact that it was founded by freemasonry and the fact that modern protestantism and worldwide degeneracy come from that piece of shit.

Even south America is better than you. At least they know how to play real football.

>>707453

'Lord' is pretty vague.

>>707755

Sorry to just drop a wiki link, but there's a book written about that analyses it. By far, the majority of the founding fathers were either outright deists, or deists who vaguely kept Christian aesthetics. Only a minority were practicing and believing Christians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faiths_of_the_Founding_Fathers

This thread is full of noise.

The reason is because America is spearheading progress and if you're a traditional believer from the "old world" most things American - including its founding """by the people""" - horrifies you.

A country built on revolutionary identity with nothing else under that it can return to, is horrifying. Beyond that, as a Catholic I barely consider any protestants beyond Catholic Anglicans and conservative Lutherans Christian.

>>707415

America a Christian nation? Let's look at the Ten Commandments one by one.

>1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

In America today we have thrown God out of society and prayer out of our schools. We teach children that they evolved from pond scum. The result? School shootings and hedonism, and society falling apart. We need to bring God back to our society. In schools, we need to bring back prayer and teach children about Creation.

>2 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Today we support literal idolatry in our society by promoting non-Christian, Eastern religions as being superior to Christianity. Idolatry is also taught in our schools: the twin idols of Marxism and evolution are pervasive. Idols are in fact demons and by allowing them to enter our society we have given it over to Satan.

>3 You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

In our media like movies, books and video games we promote profanity and hatred of God and Christians. God's judgement is coming, people!

>4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

By taking God out of society, we have made Sunday just like any other day. Now people shop and go to the mall on Sunday and forget about God. God will punish America for forgetting about His day.

>5 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Our society promotes teenage rebellion and dishonoring of parents. Now we see the fruits of this in increased crime and social instability.

>6 You shall not murder.

We promote murder in the womb of millions of unborn babies every year!

>7 You shall not commit adultery.

America has debased marriage by normalizing homosexuality and promoting "if it feels good, do it." Fortunately in some conservative states like North Carolina there are efforts to make divorce more difficult. We can only hope the rest of the country follows suit.

>8 You shall not steal.

Our society promotes stealing and rebellion as being ok in the movies, idolizing criminals. We also promote bigger and bigger government which steals money from taxpayers through the IRS

>9 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Again, we think lying is no big deal anymore. Why does the media give the Democrats a pass when they lie about Benghazi?

>10 You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.

By promoting evolution in schools and an "every man for himself" mentality, we promote breaking this commandment. It is expected for people to keep up with the Joneses by buying the latest new thing.

>>707610

Jesus was a treason to the Jews and they crucified him, we're expected nothing less than to do the same if push comes to shove. Things can always become much worse, America is growing more and more explicitly anti christian and masonic every year

>>707677

The problems didn't start in America, after the protestant revolution there was a lot of violence and war in Europe, lot's of Catholics were martyred and freemasonry was gaining the upperhand

>>707582

No, but we're Catholic first and foremost before anything else. This world is not our true home, and we don't make idols out of nationalism. There's healthy nationalism which is a love for the land and community you came from, and unhealthy nationalism which is just a false religion to take the place of the true religion of Jesus Christ