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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 1124f5930421219⋯.jpg (124.3 KB, 415x612, 415:612, 1495144560700.jpg)

08c107  No.705973

Greetings brothers in Christ,

I'm not looking for a debate, but rather some help. I am hopeful for universal reconciliation while realizing it may not be possible. I became a Christian about two years ago and have yet to find a home in any particular denomination. I'm trying to figure out if there are any churches that are generally traditional and socially conservative but which wouldn't view discussing the topic of the POSSIBILITY of universal reconciliation as heretical. I want no part of universalism in the Unitarian/"progressive" sense of the word. I am rather strictly interested in exploring the notion that the work done on the cross was sufficient to save all men in due time. Again, not looking to debate the subject. Just trying to find a non-left-leaning church where the topic wouldn't be taboo or frowned upon.

Thank you.

fe9935  No.705977

>>705973

>hoping for universal reconciliation

No you should not hope for injustice. Some people deserve to stay in hell forever, and ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scully


08c107  No.705981

>>705977

I don't hope for "injustice" at all, and as I stated twice in my OP I am not looking for a debate about universal reconciliation here on the interet. I am looking for pointers toward actual churches/denominations that aren't left-leaning where the topic could be discussed seriously with clergy/parishioners.


fe9935  No.705984

>>705973

someone obviously gave you the idea of universal reconciliation, some theologians or preachers or whatever, so why not go to the Church they are part of?

And are you looking to attend these churches just to debate/question or are you looking to join them?

> I became a Christian about two years ago and have yet to find a home in any particular denomination.

then you're not really Christian, you just think it's a good idea, go get baptized and start practicing.


08c107  No.705985

>>705984

You don't know what you're talking about – your post is full of unfounded judgment and incorrect assumptions about me, my path to Christianity, and my relationship with Christ. I'll wait for someone else to reply with an answer to my actual original question.


6a91b7  No.706013

>>705973

>I'm trying to figure out if there are any churches that are generally traditional and socially conservative but which wouldn't view discussing the topic of the POSSIBILITY of universal reconciliation as heretical.

Well, here's the problem with that. You've probably heard that you should strive for perfection, the path is narrow and all that. Let's say you have a denomination, right? And you consider that interpretation to be most correct. If you leave that line, then that's by definition, you are straying from the path. And that puts yourself in spiritual jeopardy. There's a very structural reason Prot, Caths and Orthos beat on each other day in and out here: they are trying to save souls and admonish those who are putting those efforts at risk. And that is noble and correct for them to do.

Here's a thought exercise: say, a unification of Lutherans and Catholics occurred. They do not agree on many things; Sola Scriptura, papal infallibility, in some lines women as priests (I'm looking at you Evangelicals). Many, many things. All of which we would expect in a secular institution something that would be resolved through mediation, negotiation. Now…think about this. If you advocate for a particular interpretation of the core beliefs, you must by necessity hold those beliefs as being most correct for keeping people on the path to salvation. If you negotiate those points to reach concession with someone else, this is a tacit admission that you either do not really consider your dogmas that important in quest for perfection; in which case, why did you split in the first place…or worse still, you were wrong in some way about that path to salvation. Which means, you put people in Hell, because you were wrong. That's a pretty big problem; one where you can't easily have a situation where people can claim they are both right.

There are also worldly political concerns. Everybody wants to rule the world, and this is true of some ministers, some bishops, and the odd patriarch here and there. By adjusting a structure, even if you are lukewarm who doesn't believe in God but still wear the cloth, any structure that changes the status que can threaten your position. Not to mention the laity's concerns on the matter, who might not react well to these kinds of things. All of these factors add additional sabotage to any realistic hope of what you would like to see in a natural method.

So, no, OP. You should simply choose the denomination that you discern as having correct dogma, and leave it at that. Pray for the return of a unified church if you wish, but don't go looking for it as an official policy anywhere that is still an operational faith. If you want that whole church, make a time machine that will take you before the 11th century, or one that takes you the reign of Antichrist (presumably those few Christians left during the end of that evil time will be as one, or close to it). You won't find what you are looking for in this day and age, and you shouldn't hold out hope for it.


fe9935  No.706023

>>705985

>my relationship with Christ

this relationship has to be liturgical and sacramental and communal, not purely a "psychic phenomena" in your mind or a 'sentimental' feeling in your gut.

And I already answered the question you posed, you obviously learned this "universal rec" idea from someone else, you heard it somewhere, you read some articles, you didn't invent it. So simply inquire about that authors' Church and attend it. Simple. Why are you looking for something complicated?


29c3e7  No.706026

>>705973

Orthodoxy seems most open to it. But also Catholicism and certain forms of Protestantism is too.


027f92  No.706159

>>705977

>No you should not hope for injustice. Some people deserve to stay in hell forever, and ever.

You are in no position to talk about """justice""" or to judge someone


027f92  No.706160

>>705973

As for your post, well, Orthodoxy is the most influenced and open to this idea.

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2018/09/11/permit-me-to-hope-2/

Nevertheless, while its a good thing to hope for, you should be wary not to devolve into spiritual sloth.


027f92  No.706161

>>706159

>>706160

I accidentally saged. Have a bump


fd4ace  No.706163

>>705973

>I am hopeful for universal reconciliation while realizing it may not be possible

Of course it is possible. The Lord does as He Wills. He certainly longs for everyone to be reconciled unto Him; He does not wish for the death of a sinner but that he be converted and live. However, God is just, so only He knows if everyone will be reconciled to him or not.

Orthodoxy is the most conservative church that acknowledges the possibility of universal salvation. However, I haven't found it to be expressed very frequently. My priest told me we are of course welcome to pray for the salvation of all, but that it may be better to spend that spiritual energy on myself and those close to me instead. I was in a similar boat as you a few years ago when converting, and this openness to universal salvation definitely helped attract me to Orthodoxy, but I must confess my own cares about universal salvation have fallen a bit into the wayside now that I live more in the fullness of the Church.

God bless you brother.


d40d22  No.706164

>>705973

Orthodoxy.

It can be a theologoumenon there, because everything a christian can believe isn't centralized. In catholicism you can clearly see it have never been accepted and it will probably never be (unlike predestination of a few elected, the others going in hell, so the complete opposite). Because it's a more oriental theology, with oriental fathers defending it.


59054c  No.706165

>>706159

Some people will go to hell forever, and ever, and there's nothing you can do about it. Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many will go that way. And saying that rapists and murderers deserve hell is true and honest and that is where the majority are going. Simple.


1e4e33  No.706176

>>706159

I’d suggest reading the Bible. We are given the authority to judge.


920097  No.706225

>>705973

Would have asked a similar question myself. Thank you for this good thread.


1f2eda  No.706248

As others have said, Eastern Orthodoxy. We don't make a strict difference between Hell and Purgatory (so we believe that we can dare to pray for the souls in Hell and that no one's fate is forever sealed until the eschaton happens), and furthermore it is an acceptable theologoumenon that Gehenna is a purgatorial fire.

However, the purgatorial universalism of Origen is strictly under anathema - it is based on a cyclical view of the world, according to which all things came from God in the beginning (including pre-existent souls) and so all things will return to God the same way.

Also, I would say that most Orthodox still would agree with Catholics and Protestants that Gehenna is eternal conscious torment and that at least many souls in Hades will never be saved.

On another note, since the Oriental Orthodox are often grouped under the moniker of "Orthodox": they do not believe that people can be prayed out of Hell at all, unlike the Eastern Orthodox, and in fact the Copts removed prayers that might seem to hint at this, believing it to be an error that creeped in. However, they still do not believe in Purgatory, unlike Catholics.


c172f1  No.706317

>recommend me a church that makes me feel good and agree with me and not scripture

No. Stop pretending to be Christian.


08c107  No.706473

>>706013

>>706026

>>706159

>>706160

>>706163

>>706164

>>706225

>>706248

Thank you, anons. I appreciate the feedback. I will have a closer look at Orthodoxy based on these replies.




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