/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I believe that it affected everything in creation

>>704727

>why do plants & animals die

Why do you even care? They are material beings and theres nothing wrong with them dying.

>>704734

It's okay to say you don't know.

>Here feel we but the penalty of Adam

>The Season's difference, the icy fang

>The churlish chiding of the winter's wind

>Which blows and bits upon my body 'till I shrink and say;

>"This is no flattery; these are counsellors that feelingly persuade me what I am"

>Sweet are the uses of adversity, which like the Toad

>Ugly and venomous, bares yet a precious jewel in his head

The penalty of Adam is physical pain (hunger, thirst, cold etc), obviously daily occurrences for us but which would not have existed in the paradise of Eden.

As Adam was head of human race, he was also head of corporal creation (for humans are head of it and Adam is head of us by nature).

>>704727

In Romans 5:

>Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned . . . Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

In Romans 8:

>For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

There is an order of "infection": through man, sin infected the creation, and through sin, creation (and especially mankind) suffers from death. But it is the whole creation that suffers, and that awaits redemption and deification. We can see this in the curse God puts onto humanity in Genesis 3, where the creation is shown to fight back against man instead of cooperating with him:

>To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”

Of course, this does not mean that animals and plants are guilty of sin. Rather, man was instituted as the crowning achievement of creation, and because the cosmos is his responsibility, if he falls then the cosmos falls too. Only Christ could let us recover our original nature and rescue the cosmos from its unnatural suffering.

God set Adam as the *head* of creation. As the head goes, so will the body follow.

>>704727

Sin did not bring physical death into the world. This is a misinterpretation based on a lack of spiritual discernment.

Sin brought spiritual death to mankind.

>>704768

Amen.

>>704768

According to council of Carthage, you're a heretic

>>704774

What about according to the Bible?

Did plants not die either before sin?

>>704777

Everything else died, because there's nothing special in death of plants or animals. Humans didnt.

>“For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.” (Wisdom 2:23)

>>704778

Is it not a form of immortality if when our physical body dies, our spirit continues living forever in heaven? Why would that not be a form of immortality? Sin would bring spiritual death unto man, and therefore, "true" death. A sinful person would go to hell after their physical death, not possessing immortality.

>>704781

Humans are made as both material and immaterial beings. We are not either soul or flesh but union of soul and flesh.

Also, people """"going"""" """to""" hell are also immortal but don't enjoy it.

In fact, you just practically called resurrection pointless with your post. Congratulations. Basically reed John Damascene exposition of Orthodox faith.

>>704774

Some proofs are in order.

>>704768

This is heretical

>>704784

How exactly did I call resurrection pointless?

Why am I getting told to read things other than the scriptures? I would imagine I should go to scripture first and then to others.

>>704774

What about according to the Bible?

Did plants not die either before sin?

>>704788

>>704801

>>704803

How about googling it, you winnie the pooh autists? Do your parents still spoon-feed you?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3816.htm

>>704805

If you're going to "spoon feed," why not spoon feed the Bible?

Does modern revelation take precedence?

>>704805

Your spoonfeeding sucks. You didn't even say which of the 138 canons it's under.

>>704774

What about according to the Bible?

Did plants not die either before sin?

>>704727

>Does Adam's corruption spread to all aspects of Life?

In shock news, OP answers his own question!

The entire universe was spoiled, poisoned, corrupted by one sin. This is how bad sin is.

>>704808

its canon 109

>>704896

>That whosoever says that Adam, the first man, was created mortal, so that whether he had sinned or not, he would have died in body — that is, he would have gone forth of the body, not because his sin merited this, but by natural necessity, let him be anathema.

That only speaks of Adam. It doesn't say anything about the plants and animals.

The best plants are fruitful and multiply.

There are trees over 80,000 years old in Utah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

Rick Wiles: God Didn't Design Our Planet for Sin

>>704863

We can barely operate, in our present state, in three dimensions. It takes computers to visualize and navigate four dimensions, and forget about anything else except through mathematics. We're pretty much closed off from the action, but that's good. I suspect anyone who could see it, without divine assistance, would be in grave danger.

>>704911

>trunews

please go away

>>704727

Paradise was made for man and man alone. Animals and plants would live and die as they do now. The difference is mans effect on these things after the fall.

>>704768

HERETICS OUT!