/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>Jesus is michael the archangel

kek wat

>>704605

JWs.

>>704605

C _ _ _ o _ _ cism

>>704605

Protestantism

But not because they fall into some of the criteria, but because

>Bible alone

>Faith alone

>X Alone

Those words are not in the bible so you can be sure you spotted a prot if you saw them.

>>704614

Never seen someone go full heresy before anon?

>>704616

We don't subtract from the Lord's deity.

>>704619

The filioque…

>>704622

How does this make Jesus less God? Read the Athanasian creed.

>>704626

I don't care about the Athanasian creed.

What I do care about is your heresy. By saying the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, you make it so that the Father and the Son have something in common that the Holy Spirit does not. You make the Father and the Son the same person, thus destroying the Trinity and insulting the divinity of the Son.

The alternative is that you make the Father and the Son two separate Gods, which isn't any better.

>>704627

They're all one God. It doesn't do any of these things. Nor are they the same persons, obviously. And it is procession through the Son not 'from.' Not sure where you heard that line.

>>704605

It's the JW

>>704616

You prots are so blinded by hatred for Catholicism you don't even make sense.

The second point is absolutely not what Catholic believe.

>>704630

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetentur_Caeli

>In the name of the holy Trinity, Father, Son and holy Spirit, we define, with the approval of this holy universal council of Florence, that the following truth of faith shall be believed and accepted by all Christians and thus shall all profess it: that the holy Spirit is eternally from the Father and the Son, and has his essence and his subsistent being from the Father together with the Son, and proceeds from both eternally as from one principle and a single spiration. We declare that when holy doctors and fathers say that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, this bears the sense that thereby also the Son should be signified, according to the Greeks indeed as cause, and according to the Latins as principle of the subsistence of the holy Spirit, just like the Father.

>And since the Father gave to his only-begotten Son in begetting him everything the Father has, except to be the Father, so the Son has eternally from the Father, by whom he was eternally begotten, this also, namely that the holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.

>>704627

This is what happen to your brain when people you learn theology from youtube videos. You even pretend to teach others what you never learned.

>>704633

>you prots

Nice generalization.

>>704635

I'm sure I have read more books on the subject than you ever have.

>>704645

Then you must not be very smart if you read so many books on the subject to come up with those simplistic statements.

>>704642

>add greek fanfic to the word of god

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanonical-books-new-testament/

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/septuagint-quotes-new-testament/

>subtract from the deity of christ by promoting mary to 'co-redemptrix'

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/blessed-virgin-mary/

>multiply works like playing with beads while praying repetitively

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/vain-repititious-prayer/

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation/

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/justification/

>divide loyalty by elevating a man to replacement (vicar) of christ

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/the-primacy-of-peter/

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/the-biblical-church/

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/apostolic-authority-succession/

>>704605

1) The first point is too broad to identify cults, if one took this example, one might end up thinking that Tradition and Deuterocanonical sources cannot inform a person's faith. Perhaps if these things were set on an absolute level with the Bible there might be a problem.

2)

>Subtraction

Yeah, this sounds like it was written by a fundamentalist, there are plenty of atheists who subtract from Jesus, but that doesn't mean they are heretics, it's because they don't believe in God.

3) I see where the third point is going, but it's getting really too sola fide for me.

Maybe a better thing to say would be that they make membership in their group as important as faith, not that they "multiply works." Plenty of Christians, myself included don't believe in sola fide. Sola gratia is the only sola I credit.

4) This is just classic cult behaviour, something anyone could have said and been right saying it.

>>704685

>implying the apostles called peter the vicar of christ, called mary co-redemptrix and mediatrix, played with beads while droning repetitively, etc.

>>704691

>Playing with beads

"lol bro I bet you sit on your knees beside your bed talking to your magic sky daddy"

this is how you sound when you oversimplify prayer.

>>704706

Jesus and the apostles talked to their Father in heaven. They didn't use beads.

>>704710

>They use ropes to count how many times they prayed!

Is that going to be a argument now?

I am not going to entertain it.

>>704614

Jehova's Witnesses actually believe that. Really.

>>704627

This is the most retarded thing Ive read here

>>704605

🅱aptists

>>704616

I lol'd

Nice bait. You triggered a massive punch-up over the filioque again …

This board. I tells ya

>>704842

nope saved by faith, say nothing bout works, say the trinity is the father son and holy spirit dont add or take away from bible

>>704691

What are the writings of the church fathers?

>>705245

>muh Constantine

winnie the pooh that pseudo Arian

Now to the citations (never mind the text formatting)

Papal supremacy

>Clement of Rome

Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[A.D. 95]).

Ignatius of Antioch You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 189]).

Clement of Alexandria [T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? “Behold, we have left all and have followed you” [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man that is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

>Mary is the Co redemptrix and mediator

We don't believe in that btw. Only Christ is the mediator. Her paper in salvation is that she was the one who had Christ in her womb and that she can pray for us and certainly her Son will hear her. Next meme issue

>le vain repetition meme

Ambrose of Milan

Especially he recommends the Lord's Prayer, and the repetition of Psalms by night, and the recitation of the Creed before daylight (Concerning Virgins 3:4 [A.D. 377]). (post Constantine but non friendly with him since Ambrose believed in the Holy Trinity)

+ Jews before Christ also repeated psalms and prayers, the difference lies in the words vain and "like the pagans do".

Ask yourself how the pagans really pray and then compare with the Jews and Christians.

Ps: I don't understand the fixation prots (and orthodoxs but not in a bad way) have about coonstantine.

In fact he persecuted catholics who didn't believe in the heresies eusebius supported since he was a friend of Arius.

A Pope was even kidnapped.

There's a reason he's not St. Constantine. Not even blessed or venerable.

>>705251

>There's a reason he's not St. Constantine

I thought that the Apostolic Churches do venerate him as a saint.

>>705255

Orthodoxes only. They call in Constantine the Great, but I don't think they consider him a Saint.

Catholics only view him as a regular dude.

>>705257

Dr. Carrol wrote: "Emperor Constantine was indeed a devoted and devout man, and is recognized as a saint by the Eastern Church. But he is not so recognized by the Catholic Church, probably because he deferred baptism until his deathbed (a widespread and very unfortunate practice in his time) and because he killed his son Crispus and his wife Fausta for no good reason. as described at the beginning of my volume THE BUILDING OF CHRISTENDOM…"

http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=321790

The Catholic encyclopedia doesn't mention anything about it.

While some catholics (especially Eastern catholics) believe he is a saint, there is nothing that says he was canonised at all.

His mother however is a Saint.

>>705223

>or take away

66 isn't 73 nimrod.

>>704605

> They say he is […] the son of God

Am I being memed on?

>>704605

Sounds like the Catholic Church to be honest

>>705487

Which part?

>>704828

>This is the most retarded thing Ive read here

right after the Catechism of the Catholic Church

>>705562

Oh yeah your catechism sucks too… Oh wait what catechism?

>>705630

No, we're not. The papists don't believe in Jesus Christ, they have substituted His gospel with a gospel of works and Him with a man in Rome, they are unrepentant of the grave sin of idolatry and they pervert the sacraments. They cannot be considered Christians

>705809

This is bait.

>>705810

Actually it's fact. Repent of your false pagan religion

>705817

I follow Christ instead of a book.

>>705818

you say you follow Christ and not the book

i say i follow Christ by following the book.

>>705820

So you follow the book instead of following Christ?

>>705822

Christ is the Word made flesh

>>705828

So Jesus Christ is now a book? What's wrong with you idolaters.

>>705809

We made the creed you profess faggot.

You believe in what we said about Jesus Christ in Nicea. If we the Church founded by Christ aren't Christians (Ironically we were the ones who defined Christendom) your "Church" isn't Christian either retard.

How the winnie the pooh can you be so blind to ignore history? Clearly an American prot, since European ones are a bit smarter.

>>705828

This is the most retarded interpretation I've seen.

You guys think St John when he says the word was made flesh is that the words of the Bible became flesh, and not the eternal Word (the Logos) begotten from the Father? Wtf? Some sane protestant pls tell me it ain't true.

>>706071

>We made the creed you profess faggot.

>You believe in what we said about Jesus Christ in Nicea

Ha, there wasn't even a pope back then

>If we the Church founded by Christ

Well my religion was founded by Christ, so us Christians are the ones with seniority

>your "Church" isn't Christian either retard.

My church is Christian because it follows Christ. You are a papist because you are a sworn slave of the pope. Now go back to licking his feet, slave

>>706078

>Ha, there wasn't even a pope back then

Pls tell me you're baiting pls.

I guess Pope sylvester didn't exist then.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_I

>Well my religion was founded by Christ, so us Christians are the ones with seniority

Why did he chose to found it 1500 years after his ressurection?

>You are a papist because you are a sworn slave of the pope. Now go back to licking his feet, slave

So my pastor is a dude who claims to be the servant of the servants of Christ?

I don't know what they got into your head.

All you can do is say ad hominem arguments with no fundament.

I recommend you to study history for starters, then inform yourself what the Church really believes. If your faith in your denomination is strong I guess there's nothing wrong in finding out what others believe so you won't look like a 15yo kid next time.

>>704605

<Any doctrine I disagree with is a cult

>>706073

<word is just like, his name dude. its a coincidence!

>>707889

>false equivalency

Jesus is God, what's your excuse?

>>707893

You believe in a different Jesus, who cannot save people. You believe in a Jesus people have to reach out to be saved, instead of the real Jesus who reached to people to save them.

You believe that man has the the ability to seek God, yet it is written that NONE seek God.

God has sent you a strong delusion. Just like the Pharisees you worship the counterfeit God and you KNOW you can’t be wrong. You are driven by ego.

You have yet to submit yourself before God, that he can save you, even in your sins.

>>705809

Jew.

>>707893

OP, I'm not the other person who replied to you.

It's not a false equivalency at all: if the Jews erred, why couldn't the Roman Catholic Church err?

Adventist movements (JWs, Mary Baker Eddy, etc). It's all the same thing, in a way.

Yea, I expect the antichrist to come out of there pretty soon.

>>707901

Firstly, not Catholic, just calling out what needs to be called. Secondly, you are right, church officials can fall in error, and in doing so laity and other clergy have a responsibility to correct or counter such heresies.

However, Christ, being God gave us revelations concerning many things including salvation- this cannot be compared to a layman who has no such new revelation. Thus it is a false equivalency.

Now if you wanted to argue it is not a heresy, that's another thing, but the image used there is no good for that purpose (despite the attempt to counter the image it is based on).

>>707919

What's your denomination my friend?

>>707921

I aspire to become Orthodox, I can't rightfully call myself that yet due to not yet attending church on a regular basis (I'm the only christian in my family).

>>707927

I don't know. But that image you used is unfit for purpose, this is the only point I'm making.

By the way, did you know there's IDs with color? you can enable it in the Options menu.

>>707928

No I didn't know, thank you for letting me know. I am one of the two Assyrian Christians on this board, I used the picture to argue that tradition isn't inerrant. What position on your church's tradition do you take?

>>704605

Notice how all of these "extra scripture" religions start in desolate or frontier areas? I don't know why that is, but it's kind of interesting to me. It gives some credence to the idea that churches need more authority and oversight. A lot of these well known heresies are products of the American frontier. Islam long before it a product of the Arab frontier (frontier away from Rome or Byzantium).

>>707931

Some heresies are merely the product of time. Such as the traditions of men.