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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: b95efd923b99e3d⋯.jpg (183.86 KB, 650x432, 325:216, gay catholic church.jpg)

44e3cb  No.703880

With so many options for gay Christians, why stick with the Catholic church?

When I became Catholic in 1998, as a college sophomore, I didn't know any other gay Christians. I'd been raised in a kind of pointillist Reform Judaism, almost entirely protected from homophobia; when I realized I was gay it was, if anything, a relief. I thought I finally had an explanation for the persistent sense of difference I'd felt since early childhood. This sheltered upbringing may help explain my sunny undergraduate confidence that even though I knew of literally nobody else who had ever tried to be both unashamedly gay and obediently Catholic, I was totally going to do it. No problem, guys, I got this.

Things look different now. I hope I've learned a few things about the dangers of sophomoric self-confidence: There are times when my relationship with the Catholic Church feels a lot like Margaret Atwood's ferocious little poem,

You fit into me

like a hook into an eye

a fish hook

an open eye

And I've met many other gay or queer or same-sex-attracted Christians, in all flavors of Christianity. I have several friends in same-sex marriages now, including one who had an Episcopalian church wedding with all the trimmings. I also have many friends who, like me, are trying to live in accordance with the historical Christian teaching on chastity, including its prohibition on sex between men or between women. We disagree (sometimes sharply) among ourselves on the best response to the growing cultural acceptance and political success of gay marriage; but before politics and even before culture, our response must be personal.

As Liza Mundy's article "The Gay Guide to Wedded Bliss" showed in the interview with Pastor Delman Coates of Mt. Ennon Baptist, and even more so with the Very Rev. Gary Hall of the National Cathedral, many Christian churches are beginning to integrate gay marriage into their theology. Their preexisting theology—not only on marriage but on creation, embodiment, and Scriptural interpretation—has begun to shift to match the new unisex or gender-neutral model of marriage. With so many more options for gay Christians, why stick with the fishhook? Here is an attempt at my own answer.

The biggest reason I don't just de-pope myself is that I fell in love with the Catholic Church. Very few people just "believe in God" in an abstract way; we convert, or stay Christian, within a particular church and tradition. I didn't switch from atheistic post-Judaism to "belief in God," but to Catholicism: the Incarnation and the Crucifixion, Michelangelo and Wilde, St. Francis and Dorothy Day. I loved the Church's beauty and sensual glamour. I loved her insistence that seemingly irreconcilable needs could both be met in God's overwhelming love: justice and mercy, reason and mystery, a savior who is fully God and also fully human. I even loved her tabloid, gutter-punching side, the way Catholics tend to mix ourselves up in politics and art and pop culture. (I love that side a little less now, but it's necessary.)

I didn't expect to understand every element of the faith. It is a lot bigger than I am. I'm sure there are psychological reasons for my desire to find a God and a Church I could trust entirely: I don't think I have a particularly steady moral compass, for example. I'm better at falling in love than finding my way, more attuned to eros than to ethics. Faith is no escape from the need for personal moral judgment; the Church is meant to form your conscience, not supersede it. There are many things which, if the Catholic Church commanded them, I think would have prevented me from becoming Catholic. (More on this below.) But I do think it was okay to enter the Church without being able to justify all of her teachings on my own.

At the time of my baptism the church's teaching on homosexuality was one of the ones I understood the least. I thoroughly embarrassed myself in a conversation with one of my relatives, who tried to figure out why I was joining this repressive religion. I tried to explain something about how God could give infertile heterosexual couples a baby if He wanted to, and my relative, unsurprisingly, asked why He couldn't give a gay couple a baby. The true answer was that I didn't understand the teaching, but had agreed to accept it as the cost of being Catholic. To receive the Eucharist I had to sign on the dotted line (they make you say, "I believe all that the Catholic Church believes and teaches" when they bring you into the fold), and I longed intensely for the Eucharist, so I figured, everybody has to sacrifice something. God doesn't promise that He'll only ask you for the sacrifices you agree with and understand.

http://web.archive.org/web/20180402005517/https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/05/im-gay-but-im-not-switching-to-a-church-that-supports-gay-marriage/276383/

c71f48  No.703882

If you're picking a religion that conforms to your carnal preferences, you're doing it wrong


8a857e  No.703892

>>703882

But enough about Protestantism


722137  No.703894

>>703880

>why He couldn't give a gay couple a baby.

Because such couples are an abomination.


0df1f0  No.703915

This article is from 2013?

Boy there sure are a lot of demoralization propaganda pieces around here lately


737fe5  No.703959

I know this is a bait thread but

>The true church/religion is the one that conforms to what I want

How egotistical this "logic" is always pisses me off. It's bizarre because I see so many people I normally consider bright/sensible parroting it, like they misunderstand the most basic elements of what faith is.


776d24  No.704061

>>703882

I don't really understand people who shop around for a denomination that suits their political views. Isn't the entire point to follow Christ and to put your own views subordinate to his? I used to be pretty left wing, but when I joined the Catholic Church I changed my views to be against gay marriage and abortion. I reasoned it would be stupid and arrogant to presume my former views trump Gods will. To me there is nothing that screams "lukewarm" more than a person who seeks a form of Christianity that suits their tastes and not looking to shape their worldview into something that suits the true form of Christianity.


776d24  No.704062

>>703959

Exactly. Do these people even believe in judgement day? You can just imagine them standing in front of Christs throne trying to stammer out "B-b-but I thought tolerance was important too…". Pride is the deadliest sin and you can see why, these people are so blinded they think that God must be in error if his commandments clash with their personal left wing political views.


f3c85b  No.704067

we suffer because we decriminalized homosexuality




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