/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>703606

It's better not to marry. It's a discipline and can be changed, currently the Church is calling men to be better as priest.

Only Latin rite priests can't marry.

>>703613

Not to be a hater, but they're not doing so good…

Because the epistles also talk about celibacy being the preferable option, and marriage there only for those who cannoy control their lust. The reason that the early church permitted married pirests is a practical one: the early church was almost entirely made of of converts so anyone old enough to be a priest would necessarily have been married.

>>703632

>homosexual priests abuse men and boys

>the problem is not letting them get married

Truly the hottest, most thought out take on the issue Ive ever read

>>703632

Marriage of priests doesn't necessarily stop sexual abuse, if that's what you are inferring. The main thing is actually to not "hire" homosexuals, those seem to be the main vector of abuse. I don't think you can perfectly screen them out; after all Orthodox are very diligent, but there's still enough of a problem that pokrov.org exists. That said, other groups could do better…in some cases wayyy better.

Now, do married priests chase away gays? That's a different question with a different answer.

>>703606

How come the Orthodox Church won't let married men be bishops? I know that it wasn't that way from the beginning. The epistles speak of the qualifications for overseers in the church and one of them is that an overseers should be a married man (1 Timothy 3:2). What were the reasons for the change? Wasn't the Apostle Peter and many subsequent bishops married men?

IIRC, clerical celibacy is just a discipline and not an actual doctrine.

>>703661

I don't think it will change any time soon though. The trads would flip out

>>703662

Literally every priest has accepted clerical celibacy. So it's not even just trads that will flip out, most likely the vast majority of the priesthood would flip out.

>>703667

I don't see why. Being able to have a family while still fulfilling your calling to be a man of God would be appealing to many of them I bet.

>>703668

They already have a family, their parish.

>>703662

There was a window where it could have been altered (or seen a serious attempt at it) in the 90s or early 00s, at least with US Catholics, but I think that ship has sailed.

>>703672

Explains the current crisis.

>>703668

Their celebacy is actually a vow. Changing would mean seminarians would be able to start taking wives, but current priests would still have that vow that remains. Can you see why it would be unpopular now?

>This thread again

And we all know the discussion will really go nowhere at all.

>>703638

>>703639

The reason I would support relaxing mandatory clerical celibacy in the Catholic Church isn't that abusers should get married or that celibacy makes people abusers - it's that most normal men want to marry women. If you make it so that clerics cannot marry, you attract 4 kinds of people.

1. Holy Ascetics whose love of God overcomes the need for marriage.

2. Homosexuals who see it as a way to deal with their sexuality.

3. Predators and pederasts who see it as a way to gain access to victims (overlaps somewhat with 2.)

4. Men who can't deal with women or have given up hope of marriage (i.e. incels)

Recent years have shown that for as many of 1. that there are, there are a lot of the other 3. as well. Too many. Relaxing clerical celibacy has the possibility of injecting more normal men into the priesthood. That seems to be the most important and necessary thing at the moment.

Because the Catholics use priesthood as a way to deal with Sodomites, rather than punishing them as Christ Himself directed in the Gospels, millstone and sea.

>But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

>It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

>>703606

Sacred tradition says Christ told the apostles that the priesthood was to be celibate - Fr Ripperger

Paul says the Bishop must be husband of one wife (I.e if he is married must only have one wife not multiple), this isn't saying he must be married seeing as Paul wasn't and Christ wasn't especially as they said celibacy was more perfect than marriage.

Very likely the early Church allowed married bishops and priests at first due to economic dispensation of there being few single candidates. But once the priesthood was more firmly established then celibacy could be the norm. Eastern rite priests are only allowed to be married for economia and ecumenism, but ultimately all priests should be celibate.

And it is not just discipline but actually a doctrine of sacred tradition which will probably be dogmatised one day.

>Because half of them are gay pedophiles.

Jokes aside I think it exhibits a certain amount of control over sexual urges, which is something that is currently lacking in the church. Men who aren't mentally prepared for celibacy shouldn't become preists, or else their urges will get pent up to the point that they start raping kids. Just my two cents.

>>703855

>gay pedophiles

That's oxymoronic. There can't be such a thing as a pedophilic gay: all faggots are pedophiles and all of them deserve the same fate down in the ocean blue.

>>703849

>celibacy was more perfect than marriage

Then why not simply castrate ourselves and render our kind extinct?

From what I understand, the reason priests can't marry in CY+3 is because a little bit before the reformation, the masses thought priests were having sex with their wife's at least 24 hours before giving out the Eucharist. Obviously that's a big problem so the peasants at the time would frequently riot because they didn't want a compromised Eucharist right? So the pope at the time told all of the priests to remain celibate and not to marry to satisfy the masses. Correct me if I'm wrong though as I'm a little rusty on that.

>>703950

Also I'd like to note that the peasants at the time would literally riot over perceived problems in the church. Now days priests can take it up the ass methodically and literally publicly and it would be praised by the masses. God I hate this world and its people.

>>703867

Anon, the bible itself says that celibacy is better than marriage.

>>703953

That doesnt answer the question given

>>703953

It also says that celibacy is not for everyone but only for a few men who are chosen by God. Catholic priests aren't among them obviously.

>>703642

To my knowledge it was a reform which happened much later, in the middle ages. There was a danger of the title of Bishop being passed from father to son in a nepotistic way, and also the fact that Bishops had to do (and still do) a lot of traveling which would put a strain on their home lives.

Our reasons were more practical and affected the bishops only, while most of our priests and deacons are married men. Whereas it seems that the Catholic Church sees clerical celibacy as something necessary for spiritual purity.

>>703855

>not having sex turns men into child rapists

This is your mind on the porn industry

>>703866

There aren't straight pedophiles?

>>703980

Didn't say that, did I? Although I should have said "can" to clarify further. I meant specifically men who aren't prepared for it, which is evident in the amount of preists who aren't celibate now that theyve screwed altar boys. Nice porn industry meme though. As if it's anything but projection.

>>703984

>it gave me a new id

This is why I normally don't phonepost. I wish there was some way to keep the same id when I've changed location.

>>703606

Married men are expected to have sex with their wives, which is something contrary to the orientation of many Catholic clergy.

>>703980

A lot of closetcases from Catholic families become attracted to the priesthood because it's a way of explaining why they aren't dating women without coming out. Then they quickly discover that a lot of other priests are the same way, and even act on it, which leads them to also act on it. And they also find themselves in a position of authority around young altar boys, so those of more predatory nature may act on those impulses also.

>>703965

>Whereas it seems that the Catholic Church sees clerical celibacy as something necessary for spiritual purity.

Because it is. Otherwise why would you orthos require your married priests to be abstinent for 24hrs before Divine Liturgy?

>>704009

Is eating food also hinder to spiritual development then?

>>704009

Abstaining from sex is a form of fasting for married people.

Do Catholics believe that sex defiles you or is the marital bed undefiled?

>>704013

>>704017

>Abstaining from sex is a form of fasting for married people.

But then why is the abstinence period longer than the fast period?

>Do Catholics believe that sex defiles you or is the marital bed undefiled?

Lust defiles you. The bible says that those who are married will face greater temptations in that area.

>>704018

>why is the abstinence period longer than the fast period?

Abstinence in marriage is fasting. Are you asking why the Church has different rules for married people?

>those who are married will face greater temptations in that area

Does sex defile you or is the marital bed undefiled?

>>704025

>Abstinence in marriage is fasting. Are you asking why the Church has different rules for married people?

I'm asking why is the abstinence from marital relations is longer than the one for food, because you seem to be implying that they have the same purpose.

>Does sex defile you or is the marital bed undefiled?

Is this conversation going to be you repeating the same questions ad nauseam or are you actually going to address my points?

>>704030

>why is the abstinence from marital relations is longer than the one for food

I don't know what the Fathers say about this.

>you seem to be implying that they have the same purpose

All fasting has the same purpose: to grow closer to God.

>are you actually going to address my points?

You just said that married people face greater temptations, but you didn't answer my question.

>>703867

Because castration is a grave sin, and part of the virtue of celibacy is overcoming temptation. And marriage and having children is a good act, even if celibacy is the more perfect option.

I had this question once, found this quite a good explanation.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/celibacy-and-the-priesthood

>>703632

>church doesn't let me have a wife

>I'm gonna winnie the pooh this littler boy 81% of the times instead of winnie the pooh girls that I can find in a winnie the pooh bar everyday.

Sure they were straight to begin with.

>>703984

There are. But the majority of pedophiles are indeed faggots, and all faggots are pedophiles. Millstone and sea.

>>704030

>I'm asking why is the abstinence from marital relations is longer than the one for food, because you seem to be implying that they have the same purpose.

The abstinence from marital relations is not longer than the one for food. For both, it is normally when the day begins - which is Vespers. However, tradition has pushed the fasting from food to be from midnight instead, so that people can have dinner but still abstain from breakfast. Because couples usually have sex at night though rather than in the morning, the fast from intercourse is still put at Vespers. I don't know where you've seen that the fast must be strictly 24 hours before the liturgy is served - if this is indeed a canon, then it's not applied to the letter now.