/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

So if all you need to do is believe in Jesus and you get a free ticket into Heaven what did he mean by this?

>If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

and this

>Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

and this

>As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

and this

>“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

>“Which ones?” he inquired.

>Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

and this

>“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Jesus spoke an awful lot about needing to act with integrity and righteousness. Not so much about acting like a degenerate and being granted access to his Fathers kingdom anyway

>>701921

hmm..guess that would rule out deathbed conversions also..

>>701862

your interpretation of that verse contradicts basically all of the pauline epistles which say to have confidence and assurance in your salvation.

saint John even said in 1 John 5 that you may know that you have eternal life.

and if you can lose it, then that means it isnt eternal.

>>701921

it means you took verses out of context.

>>701854

no, youre not being scammed. just because anderson is a shitty person doesnt mean he didnt get that doctrine right.

just look at the roman catholic church, they get a bunch of bible doctrine wrong and they diddle kids but at least they affirm the athanasian creed.

a broken clock is right twice a day on

>>701854

It's BS. If it was true you could say you believe in Jesus and then go burn down an orphanage with the orphans still inside for shits and giggles, and still go to Heaven afterwards.

Of course the OSAS advocates would then argue that that person was never actually saved to begin with. So what they are essentially saying is that you are definitely saved if you are saved, but it's uncertain whether you are actually saved, and you are definitely not saved if you don't act like you are saved. That's a really convoluted way of avoiding what pic related in >>701936 says.

It's not true or biblical at all, it's something that people want to believe however

>>701910

It's only a matter of time before before IFB goes in another mass suicide

>>701862

Literally the very next verse:

>for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Philippians 2:13

Even the good works we do are not our own but God who is doing so in us. See Ephesians 2:10

>For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

>>701854

Well, riddle me this. What does Hebrews 3:12-14 indicate about the possibility of a person who knows Christ departing from God? Under what conditions does it say we can be "partakers of Christ"? In what way does Philippians 2:12 say we should approach salvation? Do you approach salvation in this way? If not, why not? Are babies saved? Are 5 year olds saved? 19 year olds? At what point, if any, do the conditions for salvation change and how do your answers affect the concept of "once saved, always saved"?

Pretty simple my dude, OSAS is false prophet garbage.

>>702188

>>701854

Oh, I'll paste the lines I refer to if you're lazy

Phillipians 2

>[12] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION.

Hebrews 3

>[12] Take heed, brethren, lest perhaps there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, to depart from the living God. [13] But exhort one another every day, whilst it is called today, that none of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ: yet so, if we hold the beginning of his substance firm unto the end.

>>701854

>Is OSAS a thing?

In Calvinist circles it is, yes.

>I love the doctrine but I don't want to send myself to Hell.

Yeah, what is this, I don't even

>Am I being scammed by Pastor A???

Well, as a general rule, possibly, but, no, OSAS is a definite "thing" with a strong theological basis. It's not fruit loops. Might be WRONG, but it's not fruit loops.

>>702183

This. I've always wondered what Anderson's end game will look like. His congregation is armed to the teeth, he's always throwing "reprobates" out. Place seems like a powder keg to me, like it's only a matter of time until some Jared Loughner comes wandering in.

>>702326

It's convenient they believe in post-trib theology because they WILL get left behind if God decides to take his Elect at an earlier time

Even if OSAS is true, you should want to reject sin. Yes, your sins can be forgiven, but they're still hateful to God. Saying "Oh, I'm saved, I can sin as much as I want" is as dumb as saying "Oh, I can sin as much as I want, I'll just go to confession afterward." Don't try to rules-lawyer your way into eternal life, even if you believe it would work. Do your best not to sin, and when you screw up know that Christ's mercy is always available to you.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

- Matthew 24:45-51

>>702775

>1:16

>I'm already saved you punk b*tch

This is the fruit of OSAS theology.

N00b here

Is "Sola fide" and OSAS the same doctrine?

it's neither orthodox nor catholic, so it has to be rejected as a modern innovation.

>>702806

It originates from the same source : modern spirit.

Reject both.

Grace through faith in Christ is what saves, works then is a manifestation of that faith and evidence of salvation, it isn't what saves but shows your faith for if you say you believe and yet do not live like it, it is meaningless. I do not believe a person can loose salvation for there are many scriptures to suggest that the true believer is eternally secure but the Bible is quite clear when it talks about works as a manifestation of salvation.

James I believe explains it quite nicely when he says, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Matthew 7:15-20 makes it clear, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Read the entire 3rd chapter of Romans, summed up pretty nicely in verses 28-31, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

The law or works are established by our faith, which is our salvation, our faith, our salvation is not established by our works.

>>702209

The idea is that if you had really been saved, you wouldn't have committed those sins, and thus you were never saved in the first place.

I don't believe in OSAS, by the way.

>>702806

No. OSAS is a subset of Sola Fide.

One sin is enough to invalidate OSAS and imply you were never saved. So anyone who holds OSAS has to constantly convert back to the faith, and then realize all his past conversions weren't even valid, so whatever feeling and intuition he has about his faith will naturally become dubious and suspect to uncertainty…because he won't be able to tell what salvific faith is like, versus the fake faith that still is subject to sin after conversion

>>702084

>it means you took verses out of context.

The context was Jesus telling people if they don't act according to the will of God they'll be sent to hell. Nowhere does Jesus say it's perfectly acceptable to sin as long as you feel like a Christian in your heart

>>702777

I think you mean the fruits of being a black woman.

>>702775

Behold the sinner in the hands of the living God.

>>702777

Your right, we need to be preaching the perseverance of the saints.