/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

>>701379

Sure, they they can be harmful, but marijuana may vary.

>What are /christian/'s views on marijuana?

The bible says to be sober.

>>701384

You sure about that?

>>701384

This. Be wakeful and vigilant and sober.

>>701378

>marij'uana is a holy herb

nothing holy about it

>while getting high I got interested in christianity

ok, while I did buddhist meditation I started having experiences that contradicted buddhism and made me interested in Christ, eventually I converted, and I let go of buddhism. The raft got me to the other shore, so I left the raft behind, similarly you need to leave your crutches and intoxicants behind if you are now christian.

>>701384

>>701396

Marijuana is not intoxicating though. THC high =/= intoxication.

>>701378

If its illegal its definitely a sin

>Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God. (Rom 13:1

If you lose control of your intellect (that which is the image of God in us) at any point (a example of that would be drunkeness in a prolonged form) it would be a sin.

If you cannot perform rational tasks you've crossed the line.

Used to smoke several times a day. Thought it made me more creative and that I was reducing stress, never told myself it was spiritual. After awhile I noticed I was getting lazier, I was spending too much on it, and I felt dumb, not too quick on the draw. Eventually it dawned on me I was simply doing it because it feels good. Quick easy lazy man's way to produce temporary euphoria. A lust of the flesh.

I was shocked how easy it was to quit to be honest.

Melchizedek…order divine maaaan….

>>701399

I am not fighting for anything. Where I live marijuana is legal, but if it wasn't then I would not use it. If a place wants to make it legal or illegal then I really do not care. I am not encouraging anyone to use marijuana, I simply want to know your opinions on it and maybe have a friendly debate about it.

>>701402

>>701400

Yes, as always, everything in moderation.

>>701405

So watching porn and flogging your dolphin in moderation is okay?

>>701407

>You can't be watchful and have your mind impaired. It's talking about being under the influence, that is why the bible speaks against being drunk. Don't just look at the words (for loopholes) and read the actual meaning of the passage.

I've never felt impairment on it, I've felt the exact opposite. Now some may be different, I am only speaking for myself of course.

>It changes your brain, which is vital for your spiritual life. People who have personality changes (that is brain damage) from LSD have difficulty with their spiritual life.

It can have negative effects if used too much, especially if one is a young adult and certainly. Things come in maturity and, once again, everything in moderation. Too tell the truth I've only done it about 10 times and haven't done it many many months now.

>>701398

>thc is not intoxicant!

>>701378

>From there my entire perception of the universe changed.

>..I had a visual experience when I shut my eyes, and in that moment I felt like what I can only imagine how prophet Ezekiel felt when he saw the Cherubim around the throne of the Most High.

>I could feel myself traveling through different levels of times and I could feel the presence of the holy angels surrounding my spirit with love.

>I could see crystal like structures all around me flowing back and forth and I could hear the voices of the angels but it was like oceans.

Stop contradicting yourself. You can't say it gave you visions like Ezekial and make you see crystal structures around you, and then say "HURR BUT ITS NOT INTOXICATING"

I've done marijuana, and yes it does intoxicate me. It makes my friend paranoid and nervous, another friend it sedates and makes him feel tired. It's kind of different for everyone. I would laugh at things I wouldn't normally laugh at, my balance and driving got impaired, my spatial awareness was different, not as sharp, my reflexes felt slower.

Of course if you have a tolerance build up, you will need bigger doses to experience the intoxication…but it's still available.

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Cannabis#Subjective_effects

This article confirms its highly subjective and can be very intoxicating for some, sedating for others, stimulating, cause anxiety (or cure anxiety), cause paranoia, cause motor control impairment, thought deceleration, time distortions, focus suppression, etc…It's a gamble what sort of effects you're gonna get at what doses.

>>701408

No because those are clear sins. You're making false comparisons to marijuana which would be left to one's own conscience. If you do not feel good about doing it then of course it's a sin, because it's against faith, as St. Paul would have it.

>>701411

>This article confirms its highly subjective and can be very intoxicating for some, sedating for others, stimulating, cause anxiety (or cure anxiety), cause paranoia, cause motor control impairment, thought deceleration, time distortions, focus suppression, etc…It's a gamble what sort of effects you're gonna get at what doses.

These are exactly my points I've already articulated. For me it makes me feel closer to God, not impaired. As I already said, these are my own subjective experiences.

>Stop contradicting yourself. You can't say it gave you visions like Ezekial and make you see crystal structures around you, and then say "HURR BUT ITS NOT INTOXICATING"

So Ezekiel was intoxicated then? I do not think so. He was in the midst of God, and so was I.

>>701413

>So Ezekiel was intoxicated then? I do not think so. He was in the midst of God, and so was I.

In that visionary moment he was functionally intoxicated by a dream-like state. It was an altered state of consciousness but it was induced by God, for a purpose, not by Ezekiel himself nor by any earthly pharmaceutical.

You don't induce experiences of God in yourself, God induces himself via his own grace and operations. The fact that you believe a drug initiates contact with God is so blasphemous and anti-christian it's ridiculous.

And yes it is an intoxicant, otherwise you wouldn't even be doing it.

>>701405

>>701409

>Yes, as always, everything in moderation.

>Things come in maturity and, once again, everything in moderation.

Ultimately it's your choice, but If you want the Christian perspective, it's to stay away from drug use. It doesn't matter if it relaxes you, the point is it changes your mind. People who use meth don't feel impaired, in fact they feel like they're motivated to do anything for the entire day.

Weed use isn't rebellious or against those in power either, just because it's illegal in certain places. You can find plenty of declassified documents of CIA experiments using Marijuana. The whole 60s drug culture was cultivated for social engineering.

>>701414

>You don't induce experiences of God in yourself, God induces himself via his own grace and operations. The fact that you believe a drug initiates contact with God is so blasphemous and anti-christian it's ridiculous.

Yes, God through his providence and grace gave me the experience. He initiated it, not I. He lead me there, no me. He willed it, not I.

>Ultimately it's your choice, but If you want the Christian perspective, it's to stay away from drug use.

Yes of course. I would never ever go beyond marijuana use.

>>701416

>Yes, God through his providence and grace gave me the experience. He initiated it, not I. He lead me there, no me. He willed it, not I.

So God just coincidentally turned your marijuana intoxication into an authentic spiritual experience? If you believe this then there is nothing inherently entheogenic about marijuana, it was just a coincidence, you could've been just reading the bible and had the same experience, no?

But that's not what you're arguing in this thread. You want to turn marijuana into an initiatory drug, like pagans would do.

>. I hit it and within seconds I felt my perceptions change. Right after that he also gave me some hash oil (concentrated THC directly from marijuana). From there my entire perception of the universe changed.

>I HIT IT

>WITHIN SECONDS MY PERCEPTION CHANGED

None of your initial post suggests this was just a "spiritual coincidence", that God hi-jacked your marijauana experience and turned it positive. Instead you make it sound like marijuana does something to YOU that allows you to connect to God better.

Pick your argument, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

>>701417

>So God just coincidentally turned your marijuana intoxication into an authentic spiritual experience? If you believe this then there is nothing inherently entheogenic about marijuana, it was just a coincidence, you could've been just reading the bible and had the same experience, no?

Nothing God does is coincidental.

>But that's not what you're arguing in this thread. You want to turn marijuana into an initiatory drug, like pagans would do.

Why do you keep intentionally mischaracterizing what I've been saying? I said that these were my own experiences, that others should decide on their own, and that we may have friendly debates over it. That's it. I'm not trying to get this as some kind of "initiatory drug". I already said in my post above, there is nothing I'm fighting for. You're making unwarranted assumptions about what my actual viewpoints are and what this thread is for.

>None of your initial post suggests this was just a "spiritual coincidence", that God hi-jacked your marijauana experience and turned it positive. Instead you make it sound like marijuana does something to YOU that allows you to connect to God better.

God has used the marijuana to allow me to experience him. Before I didn't have any beliefs. At least not any that I ever felt strongly about. But God decided to intervene in my life because he wanted to save me from my sin. God comes into all of our lives in different ways. This is the way he chose for me, so that he can lead me to the truth of Christ.

>Pick your argument, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

I'm not having it anyways. You're intentionally mischaracterizing due to your own biases against me.

Goodnight everybody. May God bless you.

>>701420

>Nothing God does is coincidental.

>God has used the marijuana to allow me to experience him.

Or, God saw you going down a dangerous path and gave you some help. But now you've (incorrectly) associated marijuana with goodness, with God.

I'm sure there have been people in history who, while doing something harmful, have had revelatory experiences that caused them to convert, but they didn't continue partaking of those harmful things.

>I'm not having it anyways. You're intentionally mischaracterizing due to your own biases against me.

You're arguing that marijuana is the trigger that led you to God. We're saying that even if that's the case it doesn't mean marijuana is worth pursuing.

It's also an intoxicant, and the bible is against intoxication of the mind with pharmakeia or alcohol or whatever substance impairs your thinking.

I've smoked hashish several times before. It does nothing, it's just like tobacco except tastier.

It remains a very grave sin if it's illegal in your country, so I don't do it anymore. I wouldn't mind smoking now and then if the state ever made it legal though, although several Orthodox priests consider that any and all drugs are sinful, including tobacco.

>>701398

>thc high ==/== intoxication

Oh and just too add, this is absolute nonsense.

Cannabis is legal to eat in my country, I used to buy marijauna milk shakes here. And after 1-2hours they would absolutely knock me out, all I could do was lay down in bed and zone out, and pray that no one knocked on my door uninvited, cause I wouldn't be able to deal with social interaction at all.

It's a sin, period. With alcohol you can at least drink a bit and be sober. But with weed you're either high or you're not. And the Bible says many many times to be sober.

It is a pagan surrogate for genuine spritituality. You do not need it.

It's medicine for some, a way to waste time for others, a crutch for many, but a gift and a blessing from Lord God always.

>>701378

marijuana is illegal, and the law is not unjust in and of itself, and thus it is mortal sin per romans 13, and a sub-violation of the 4th commandment to use marijuana.

If it were not illegal, it would be as immoral as minor drunkenness. A venial sin.

>can further spirituality provided it's used correctly?

using drugs spiritually at all is one case of pharmakeia as it is called in greek in galatians 5:20.

>My soul felt like it was deeply connected with the divine

2 corinthians 11:14 should make you cry as a fool then.

And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.

Feelings are how idiots are deluded into sin, because the natural feelings of man are tainted by concupiscence, which is the result of adam's sin. Do not be deluded by feeling, but seek truth through faith and reason alone.

>dude i smoked cannabis and i felt the trinity come into my heart dude

>dude i smoked and i became one with the universe dude

>dude weed lmao dude

What the winnie the pooh do you guys smoke? That wasn't weed or hashish, you took acid or something. At the absolute worst, weed will make it hard to think, will make you feel like you're drowning, and will make you lazy and possibly sleepy. It's not so psychoactive that you'll have some kind of profound "mystical" experience after a joint.

Actually I find cigarettes to have much more of an effect (which is still not "mystical experience" tier but bad enough to probably be a danger while driving for instance).

>>701459

That's not how it works. Alcohol affects your behavior and sensations as soon as you consume it, you can't be considered "sober" after one glass of wine even if you're not legally "drunk". You get more and more intoxicated, from a light buzz to getting into a coma after barfing your stomach out. It's the same for cannabis - the more and the deeper you smoke, the more intoxicated you get, but it goes from a light buzz to being completely stoned. There isn't a "switch" where you're either sober or fully intoxicated.

Incidentally, that's not how cigarettes work - you immediately go from sober to high, but the high lasts for maybe 2-3 minutes at most.

DUDE

if you smoke a bit (and you can handle it, not people who go crazy on it) as just like something very casual it's like having a beer etc. if you are like… imma get effed up and all, no that's wrong just like planning to get smashed. in general it's better to avoid it but just like having a cigarette it's fine in moderation.

>>701433

>I used to buy marijauna milk shakes here.

lit

>>701640

JAH

>>701378

>Is it possible it can further spirituality provided it's used correctly?

It can definitely make it easier for certain spirits to become aware of you, but by extension that would necessarily mean it can never be used correctly for the desired task. There is a reason humans are cordoned off from supernatural space while on this Earth, it's a design feature rather than a flaw.

If you haven't been spiritually attacked in real live since then, count yourself lucky. Not everyone has the same trajectory you do.

>>701399

>I always find it strange you potheads

>willing to get into heated arguments

>*proceeds with a mild wall of text*

>Get the F out

Nice try, anon. I forgive you.

>>701407

Alcoholism is bad, true dat. But even Paul suggested St. Timothy have a a cup of wine in the evening for his bowel problem.

>>701674

>Alcoholism is bad, true dat. But even Paul suggested St. Timothy have a a cup of wine in the evening for his bowel problem.

Unlike what other anon said, judging from personal experience, you can take wine and be able minded (but become more cheerful). But thats a small amount. I can somewhat say that there is a small line when you realize when you start to become drunk and this is the moment where you must stop despite circumstances.

As for weed though, I dont have any kind of personal experience, but no pothead can smoke and remain reasonable.

And anyone who compares alcohol to weed is either stupid or deceitful that wants to justify this degenerate """culture"""

>>701664

AYO

>>701685

>anyone who compares alcohol to weed is either stupid or deceitful that wants to justify this degenerate """culture"""

You must be fun at parties.

>>701705

>Ha ha, wow. Why aren’t you a degenerate pot head like me anon? lol just have fun man ha ha.

I bet you think masterbation is perfectly fine too.

>>701990

You do really seem to be pent up, overreacting and bitter about the subject.

Chill out man, its all good.

What about the fact that weed helps people with anxiety and depression and even nervous problems?

Pot head culture is is cancer, but nearly everything addicting that becomes a culture is cancer. Like tumblr.

>>701407

Lol, I just realized… concerning your meme:

Jn 10:10 – The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I am come that they may have life, and may have it more abundantly.

A felony home invader is a subcategory of the thief.

Mt 19:18 – He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Assuming then, that a home invader, a subtype of thief, follows christ's rubric of the thief (which is to steal, kill and destory), then christ makes injunctions against necessary elements of the essence of being a thief (namely, against stealing and killing).

From this, we can say that christ implicitly forbids felony home invasion, as he forbids its constituent elements.

>>701407

>But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

(Matthew 24:43)

A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it.

Every plant which my Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.

Do you not yet realize that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then is eliminated?

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.

These are what defile a man, but eating with unwashed hands does not defile him.

(Matthew 15)

(The Holy Spirit led me to this verse to share with you.)

>>702015

>What about the fact that weed helps people with anxiety and depression and even nervous problems?

So does masturbation, technically. Drug-use is a sin, for much the same reasons that getting drunk is, which the Scripture itself condemns many times.

The only time weed should be considered non-sinful, is when a legitimate (and legal) medical need is established and cleared by a doctor.

It's satanic and communist and opens you up to demonic possession and all Chrishtins should avoid it like J Edgar Hoover did.

Just kidding.

>>702015

Honestly if you want to be a hedonist there's thousand alternatives to Christianity in liberal society.

It's always the same with masturbarion and with weed threads, just endless mental gymnastics to justify vices.

>>701378

>Is it possible it can further spirituality provided it's used correctly?

Good joke anon. No. The apostles did not use weed and they were the guys who literally stood next to Jesus Himself and preached the Gospels.

>>702047

>Hahahaha just eat some deadly nightshade bro ahahahahaha

>>702060

>>702091

>Drug-use is a sin, for much the same reasons that getting drunk is

>which the Scripture itself condemns many times

>Jesus first miracle is turning water into wine

Honestly I can't disagree with you guys, but I still think you're hyperbolizing too much and even outright comparing weed to masturbation.

>>702113

>The only time weed should be considered non-sinful, is when a legitimate (and legal) medical need is established and cleared by a doctor.

Genesis 1:29

Comparing deadly poisons to cannabis is stupid. It is impossible to die from consuming cannabis, for example.

>>701378

Gaaaaaaanjaa, maaaaan … eh, we toke a likkle o' da wid, mon.

There is ZERO valuable application of weed to your spiritual insights. Seek God through prayer, fasting and reading of His word, not through "medicinal assistance".

>>702192

Then don’t intentionally take a verse out of context.

everything in moderation

>>702227

>everything in moderation

t.liberal

I've never tried it, but I don't know if it's evil straight up or not. Yes it's a huge problem when people have it repeatedly and get involved in the whole culture of it, but like with drink I don't know that it's a sin to have on occasion when you have no responsibilities. Interested in hearing what others think

>>702118

What are you talking about? Both are used to relieve stress, both are heavily done in this modern society, both are degenerate and degrades a person, and we can also add that both seem to be heavily defeated on this board, despite many other anons advising not to do both.

>>702227

I guess I can jerk off and screw random women, but as long as I do it in moderation I’m A-okay with the Lord right?

>>702227

We're Christian, not Aristotelian

People who smoke weed become lazy, good for nothing, idle people.

Stoner culture is pure cancer.

It's hippy crap

>>703618

You're probably right.

I'll pray that no one would ever need for such things then.

>>703676

>It might help with some introspection just that no churches have given it official consideration

Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2291:

"The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."

>in South Asia where bhang has achieved the praise of both Hindus and Muslims

Heretics being heretics. Are we supposed to take them as role models or something?

Seriously, the mental gymnastics people go through in masturbation and weed threads because muh pleasure…

>>703713

>Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2291:

>"The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."

I agree with this, but then why are Catholic priests allowed to smoke? Orthodox priests call tobacco "the devil's incense".

>>703713

> just that no churches have given it official consideration

Like I said politics more than anything. Contrary to what it would seem with the beliefs perpetuated around here like that of churches standing in some type of defiance government, in reality more often than not they've served to affirm the views of governments.

>Heretics being heretics

Is that the best your best criticism?

>they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

Almost as bad as the mental gymnastics people go through in shunning some activities because of their possible "sinfullness" while conveniently overlooking others.

Also cannabis isn't illegal everywhere. Would you be willing to forgo communion in a shariah state?

>>703766

>moving the goalpoast

How about you answer the question mister puritroll.

>>703768

I won't answer the question because it's 1) not directed at me and 2) pathetically stupid.

You are implying that laws prohobiting the possession and consumption of cannabis are injust, on the same level as laws forbidding the practice of Christian religion.

>>703769

Nice strawman, whether you would still follow such a law is the only thing that was being implied.

>>701705

>You must be fun at parties.

Literal Reddit answer. Every liberal hedonists’ favorite “””argument”””.

>>703764

>Like I said politics more than anything. Contrary to what it would seem with the beliefs perpetuated around here like that of churches standing in some type of defiance government, in reality more often than not they've served to affirm the views of governments.

Excepts it's reaffirmed many times in scripture. Please stop trying to justify your vices.

>Is that the best your best criticism?

Just making you realize that what some false religion teaches somewhere is completely irrelevant here

>Almost as bad as the mental gymnastics people go through in shunning some activities because of their possible "sinfullness" while conveniently overlooking others.

Again, what some people might or might not do somewhere else is completely irrelevant here

>Also cannabis isn't illegal everywhere

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

All toxicants are immoral. This includes caffeine and processed sugar.

>>703819

This is a Christian board, not mormon.

Jesus turned water into wine, not soy milk.

>>703813

>reaffirmed many times in scripture

No cannabis prohibition is not referenced anywhere in scripture. All substances aren't the same and treating them like such is fallacious.

>what some false religion teaches somewhere is completely irrelevant here

I'm sure stronger preservation of some conservative ethics can be found among those people than in domains where it's been criminalized or by entities that do so, you also ignored the part that said "there are warnings by both of curses and afflictions for those who misuse it."

>all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Yet you cited illegal production and distribution as one of the reasons for it's immorality. I would agree as illicit drug markets engage in many types of immoral activities whereas legalization takes it away from criminal enterprises.

But to say something is immoral because it's illegal and then say it's still immoral even if it is legal is contradictory.

Any free thinking person should not be taken into the arguments of American politics of past decades which may have been manipulated for ulterior motives. The heavens likely don't operate under the same metrics that earthly governments do.

>>703828

>implying mormons consider caffeine and processed sugar immoral

They can't drink coffee, but they can take caffeine pills.

>using water into wine as an argument for intoxication

Further more just because some compromised pontificate is unable to make much of a pronouncement on the matter and merely cops out of it continually by simply reaffirming what would be expected of it in the context of the current culture isn't a good reason to take it as the sole truth. They're observably being swayed around by the always changing socio-political attitudes always taking place. Had cannabis never been prohibited there probably would be nowhere near as much of an impetus for making many assertive proscriptions toward it.

>>703777

>being this butthurt

Stop fighting over weed, guys.

>>703771

You are impossible to deal with. The laws of God ascends the laws of man. In no way can communion be compared to cannibis. If you can’t comprehend this, then I’m sorry but I have to other simple way of saying this.

>>701687

I-I-I YO

>>701378

I guess it's fine if you are chewing on the leaf and it's your culture, but distilling it down and concentrating it specifically to get a high is pretty non-sober.

>>701378

The bible warns us to stay sober and avoid pharmakeia but it also tells us God made all seed bearing herbs for us to use, and called them good, so…

If it is a sin, then we need a savior for forgiveness, don't we? If it isn't a sin, we still need a savior for all our other sins, don't we? I need Jesus either way. Stay focused on God, stay in the word. Go to church if you can find one that is not a SJW-LBTQLMNOP front.

Reminder to everyone here: if you rag on THC and take the drugs your lab coat drug dealer is pushing on you from BigPharma, welcome to the hypocrite's club. We meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays, bad coffee in the back, please introduce yourself.

Jesus Christ son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.