Greece denies visa to Russian Orthodox Church official

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Greece denies visa to Russian Orthodox Church official Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 05:36:34 a9441c No.699496

https://www.unian.info/world/10253940-greece-denies-visa-to-russian-orthodox-church-official.html

The Chancellor of Moscow Patriarchate, Metropolitan Varsonofy of St. Petersburg and Ladoga has been refused a Greek visa ahead of his planned pilgrimage to Athos.

"For many years the archbishop has been going on a pilgrimage to Athos. This year, he was denied a Schengen visa," the Chancellery told TASS.

As UNIAN reported earlier, the priests of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) had been facing problems obtaining Schengen visas through the Greek consulate amid the conflict between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Patriarchate of Constantinople over the issue of granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC).

"This is the policy of the Greek government. Now the priests of the ROC are perceived as potential spies and agents of influence," a source close to Constantinople told the BBC Russian Service.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-orthodox-church-threatens-retaliation-against-istanbul-based-patriarch/29479797.html

The Russian Orthodox Church has threatened to retaliate against its Istanbul-based rival if it allows Ukraine to cut its spiritual ties with Moscow and thereby end Russian religious rule in the country.

Bartholomew, known as the "first among equals" of Orthodox Christian leaders in the world, is expected to rule in the coming months on an appeal from Ukraine to break away from Moscow and create an independent church.

The Russian Orthodox Church is especially upset with a decision on September 7 by Bartholomew to send two envoys to Ukraine as a step toward declaring ecclesiastical independence for the church there.

The Istanbul-based Patriarchate said it will send two bishops to Ukraine "within the framework of the preparations for the granting of autocephaly to the Orthodox Church in Ukraine," strongly suggesting it had already decided to grant independence to the Orthodox Church in Ukraine.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 05:47:30 bb23d5 No.699502

>>699496

Its clear that this is the influence of the Greece government, acting on the orders of the European Union, creeping in on the Church.

I dont know about the legitmancy of a Ukranian Patriarch, since I am a Roman Catholic, but this is clearly political, and its a bad sign when the government begins to mess with the church. The opposite is fine, but no secular government should have the right to intervene on church matters.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 08:52:45 84e149 No.699557

>>699502

Well that's what happens when you divide the Church along ethnic lines so much…

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 08:54:11 5a99e5 No.699558

the power of primus inter pares

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 08:56:11 7905bf No.699559

>>699502

Apparently the Pope supports Kyrill against Ukraine.

Ukranian Catholic Uniates supports the claim of autocephaly of Orthodox Ukrainians but the Pope told them to mind their business.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 09:07:27 4bccc8 No.699562

>>699502

I'm not fond of Russians or Gundyayev, but Constantinople is acting extremely irrationally.

Ukrainian "Patriarch" Philaret was actually deflocked so guess how legitimate he is. Also, Since ancient times autocephaly was granted with the approval of its mother church and Bartholomeos is violating this law. Also several criteria has to be met to consider church to be independent, these include:

1)Independence of the country its church represents

2)linguistic differences (creating hardship regarding liturgy)

3)Distance from Patriarchal see (with invention of aviation, mobiles and Internet, this isnt a concern)

4)Desire of Nation itself

While first three criteria is fulfilled by Ukraine, 4th isnt. Philaret controls third of the churches and monasteries in Ukraine. Asides this, people are split op with opinions, with many desiring to be with Russian Church. Asides this, ROC already granted large enough autonomy to Ukrainian Church and was on its path to independence. Barthlomeos created unnecessary tensions with his actions. Again, I dont like Russia and I support independence of Ukrainian Church, but this must n't be done the way Constantinople does.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 09:43:13 b62fe3 No.699569

HOW CATHOLIC OF THEM

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 09:53:19 7905bf No.699573

If only there was a Pope to fix them…

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 09:55:57 7905bf No.699574

>>699562

About the 4th point I think the problem is the nation is divided. Eastern Ukraine is pro-Russia, western Ukraine see Russia as Mordor.

Also you can't deny the Russian Church often acted in the political interest of the Russian state. And to a certain degree it still does today.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 12:11:37 84e149 No.699635

File: 9d84067f9ae1dfe⋯.jpg (53.31 KB, 800x478, 400:239, 98345619579291236653465512….jpg)

>>699574

> And to a certain degree it still does today.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 12:24:34 39a41e No.699638

This is why caesaropapism doesn't work

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 20:03:36 55bde3 No.699856

>>699574

>About the 4th point I think the problem is the nation is divided. Eastern Ukraine is pro-Russia, western Ukraine see Russia as Mordor.

Some time ago I saw a map of Ukraine comparing the popularity of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) and the Kievan Patriarchate (KP). I had expected to see what you suggested in you comment, but I saw something different. There were two centres of influence for the KP. The first centre was the capital Kiev. This clearly means that the popularity of KP is politically motivated. On the other hand, the strongholds of UOC were along the periphery of Ukraine – not only the eastern periphery, which borders Russia, but also, for example, the periphery bordering Romania or the Black Sea.

The second centre of KP seems genuine – the westernmost parts of Ukraine where the Catholics are majority. It is obvious that the people living there hate the Russians and don't want to be under the Moscow Patriarchate. And if their choice is to be catholics or to be shismatics, I'd say the second option is preferable.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 20:21:58 f1680f No.699864

>>699502

>but this is clearly political, and its a bad sign when the government begins to mess with the church

Welcome to the Orthodox Church. This is nothing new. Eastern Orthodoxy has had an unholy union with their respective nations governments for as long as they've existed.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 20:24:22 f1680f No.699866

>>699574

>And to a certain degree it still does today.

The Russian Orthodox church is completely compromised by the Russian government. There is no "certain degree", they're 100% Putin cronies.

Christanon 09/11/18 (Tue) 20:30:30 55bde3 No.699868

>>699864

>Eastern Orthodoxy has had an unholy union with their respective nations governments for as long as they've existed.

Eastern Orthodoxy has been persecuted by their respective governments for almost as long as they have existed.

>>699866

>The Russian Orthodox church is completely compromised by the Russian government.

The Russian government has been compromised by the Russian Church.