/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>699459

I never chose to be like this.

But it's not inborn. That doesn't make sense.

>>699461

>inb4 sodomite faggot

i'm a kissless, handholdless virgin.

>>699459

A choice, but once a person chooses to be a faggot and keeps defending such behavior it behaves very much like a mental illness.

>>699464

Then how am I supposed to unchoose this? I can't for the life of me find the off-switch inside my psyche.

I'm not behaviour, since I don't act on it.

>>699459

The important answer is:

Homosexual thoughts independent from one's will are not sinful, but one who engages in homosexual acts is worthy of death and inexcusable unless coercion is involved.

>>699459

Both in a sense. One can fall victim to mental illness stemming from outside (((secular))) influence or pressure, sexual abuse, misled by those who promote iniquity; but one can also choose to not stay victim and tell the gay to get out of the temple of the Holy Spirit.

>>699468

Its demonic tempation, and its your cross to bear.

You aren't 'gay', those are the ones who act to satisfy this temptation.

The mere fact that you dont act on these impulses proves your virtue and faith, since you recognize that its unnatural and wrong.

I guess you could say it's a mental illness that God creates, to rid the world of reprobate seed

I think it can be both, and it can also be influenced by porn consumption and upbringing.

I was born with this as a challenge that I need to face, myself. My addiction to porn and my shitty upbringing certainly made things worse. I was raised to be submissive and weak by my single mother who found it best to leave me alone to care for my younger brother while she went out and had irresponsible amounts of sex with men that beat her. That led me to having little restraint when I discovered porn and much later gay porn (which was a dream come true for me at the time, as I projected myself onto the woman for some reason). I've been working at getting off porn and it's been doing wonders (not that stopping porn works for everyone) along with near constant praying and meditation. I still have urges to have sex with traps, but that's as gay as it gets for me these days. Not that it's good, but it's certainly better than what I used to be at, wanting to be sodomized by a bodybuilder. Luckily (or unluckily) I'm pretty ugly, so I'm still a virgin, but I'm concerned that my looks will keep me from getting a wife once I'm completely straight. At the very least, no one knows I've struggled with homosexuality except for my pastor and my brother, because I don't fit the stereotype of effeminate slim/skinny guy with a lisp and dyed hair.

I can confidently say that being gay is not always a choice, but accepting it is.

A choice mostly

>have friend come out as gay

>tell him not to do that

>he spends his life watching porn, playing video games or just online, smokes weed and drinks heavily, has no female interaction irl and probably not online either, does literally no physical activity, and the worst: watvhes anime habitually

>"but how can I change! I was born like this its not a choice!"

>>699459

You can like a guy, but acting on the impulse is a sin. Just like liking a girl isn't a sin but sexually fantasizing her is a sin. This isn't hard to understand.

>>699493

Liking a dude is different from being gay, ya fag. Being gay has to do specifically with lust for men. That's why it's called homosexual and not homofriendship.

>>699488

ngl, i am currently where you used to be rn (the text you spoilered).

you remind me of me haha.

im an ugly virgin, so no one wants me. i also struggle with autism, so i wear cargo pants and dull monochrome tees, so no one thinks i have these problems apart from my high pitched voice.

>>699492

your sample size is 1.

i spent my life trying to be the goody two-shoes at the church, studying trying to get straight a's, and i've never touched a video game or drugs.

and still i end up screwed up and messed up like this.

>>699459

>1 post from this ID

>>699513

By "liking a guy" you either meant as a friend (not gay) as a romantic partner in a non-sexual way (which is lying to yourself, romantic feelings by nature lead to sexual feelings) or in a sexual way (which is lust). I chose to assume you meant as a friend, but feel free to correct me. Just telling me I didn't read what you said doesn't help get your point across.

>>699528

Best of luck, bro. I'll be praying for you.

>i spent my life trying to be the goody two-shoes at the church, studying trying to get straight a's, and i've never touched a video game or drugs.

>and still i end up screwed up and messed up like this.

Read "The Naked Gospel" by Andrew Farley. I'm not sure what other anons on here think of it, but I recently started it and I think it's a really good thing to read if you're in this mindset. I don't read much Christian literature though, so maybe the book isn't as good as I think it is compared to others. Worth a shot anyways imo.

Having gay desires is like having depression, it’s not inherently sinful but it is disordered and a sign there’s something wrong that needs to be combated. Giving into those desires by fantasising, masturbating or committing sodomy is like a depressed person giving into their desire to harm themselves.

>>699459

It's both.

You're not born like this, but turned into something like this by decisions and/or external influences.

Also a choice since you can choose to be gay.

Interesting about this is, you can become straight again.

There are enough people who switch between orientations, but you got to look at it from a case-to-case situation.

>>699461

Were you abused sexually when you were younger? That seems to be a recurring theme with homosexuals.

>>699459

An illness.

Any other questions?

>>699637

The problem here is that you use the word "abuse", which has a lot of emotional baggage. A gay person, even one questioning his homosexuality, might not think of a sexual experience in childhood as "abuse". The question to ask the OP is:

Did you have any sexual experience or encounter when you were very young?

>>699459

Both. It is a disordered inclination that nevertheless can be resisted. It is better to say that homosexual attraction is a disorder but the practice of sodomy is a full choice.

>>699459

Neither, I think it's either indoctrinated or caused demonic influence

>>699696

Note, I'm about "being". The actual practice is a choice.

>>699461

Stop watching porn, Check your diet and environment for endocrine disruptors.

Homosexual desire is something you're born with. A male's sexual desire is mostly based on visual image, and therefore it's easy to differentiate between the heteros and the homos. Normal men will find kissing other men to be as repulsive as maggots on a chunk of rotten meat. No amount of degeneracy can turn a straight men into wanting to kiss a hairy full grown man. Straight men might want to winnie the pooh traps and little boys, but they'd stay the winnie the pooh away from adult men, unless they're bi or such. Men who seriously believe that straight men can possibly turn gay are closet fags in deep denial.

With that said, homosexuality (and heterosexual attraction too in this matter) are only sinful when you act upon it. Just like every other sin, Satan always gives you the motivation to do it however it's not a sin unless you turn the motivation into a deed and indulge in it.

>>699765

>Homosexual desire is something you're born with

Not proven. Only endless claims if LGBTOUHY£%&*)$ lobby. First they claimed it must be genetically determined without any proof. No proof has been found so now they go about "muh fetus this and that, hurr development it has to be given at birth". The motivation is clear: make sodomy an identity.

Saying you're born with it is making wild assumptions.

Look they did not prove anything in this respect. Furthermore the science first makes an observation, then explains it. Going out with a thesis "you're born with it" and then finding justifications, using strawman is not scientific at all. Oh yeah or """studies""" that supposedly definitely confirm that thesis.

Supposing this is not a bait thread.

Sodomy is not an identity. You were not - most likely -born this way but rather indoctrinated into thinking you're gay.

>But how?

First by claims such as: it's identity to be gay, they're born this way, watching pornography, tv shows with "cool gay characters".

>But I know I am gay

How so? You laid with both men and women so you know that definitely? You went to CONFESSION and use the sacraments to fight off the devil? You purged pornography? You actually went out on a date with girls? Or you're just a confused teenager??

My advice for you: stop thinking sodomy is an identity. It is a mortal sin

>inb4 I am not practicing

You know what I mean. It is not natural and you CANNOT PROVE people are born this way. Eliminate things that push those ideas to your head (porn, other LGBT propaganda), confess, ask Lord for help. Try speaking to women, try dating them.

If it does not work you're stuck anyway. If you care for faith you cannot act on the sinful desires.

Ask God for help.

>>699637

No. I was not sexually abused at all. :\

>>699685

I had no sexual experience in my very early childhood.

>>699702

Yeah, I've stopped eating soy almost completely, as well as plastic water bottles. I don't use shampoo and body wash, just soap and water. My parents won't stop cooking in nonstick pans and using plastic wrap though. Am I missing any?

The problem for me is, I'm already winnie the poohed from all those years. I have a weak, effeminate figure and features, and a shrill, almost J-ish voice, and a small pp and I'm reaching the tail end of the period where I was supposed to get all that. So even if I escape the desire, I'll just be an incel after that.

>>700608

>I'll just be an incel

If that's part of God's plan, who is anyone to deny it? BEGOME MONK or live out a celibate life in a way you think you're supposed to. Prayer is the most important if you want to know your vocation.

>>700971

An oversimplification, but basically this.

It's likely something like schizophrenia, which is actually multiple different conditions but which are grouped together because the causes are basically unknown and the symptoms similar.

Based on the radical upsurge in men willing to lop their genitals off (if you want to group this with homosexuality, there's certainly some overlap) then it seems that in certain cases it is a social phenomena. Greg Cochrane believes that it's caused by an as of yet unidentified parasitic infection.

>>700609

Sex isn't the kind of life-affirming experience you think it is (t. sex-haver), that being said, you have to start going to the gym and interacting with people irl in a healthy way, and trying to date girls. Finding a healthy sense of masculinity within yourself and making friends is a good way to ward of teh ghay if the cause is social isolation (which it sounds like it is). Release your inner chad.

>>699459

It's certainly not genetic. I went from straight to bi after becoming addicted to porn, developing a surge in mental illness, and even seeing demons. So at least one of those three probably causes it.

>>700992

>Greg Cochrane believes that it's caused by an as of yet unidentified parasitic infection.

It's called Judaism.

>>699865

>Not proven.

Oh, you mean genetic study. It's as simple as some sequencing and analyzing of 100 different DNA samples from 100 gay men and comparing them to the DNA samples from straight men. It's as easy as finding a strain of hair in a tall pile of hay.

>Saying you're born with it is making wild assumptions.

Did you find naked men sexy when you were a kid? If you did, you're probably born a fag. What's so complicated about that?

>The motivation is clear: make sodomy an identity.

Anything can be turned into a propaganda. Do disorders not exist just because people are abusing their disabled privilege? There's nothing new under the sun, you're just schizophrenic.

>>700997

You probably just love the penis (which Ogi Ogas said isn't an accurate indicator for homosexual attraction as straight men in particular the porn addicted ones like to relate their sexual attraction to that specific organ) or the thrill of doing something taboo.

It's a sin. And all sins can be conquered with God's grace and our submission to him. The exact origin of sexual disorientation doesn't matter once you make a conscious decision to purify yourself and detach from it. Flee from sin. Ask questions later.

As a gay man married to a woman I can tell you that whilst its something you are born with acting on it is absolutely a choice. Every single person has sinful desires to resist some more than others but none beyond their capacity.

It's produced by traumas or sinful lifestyle

>>701081

Absolutely this.

>>701082

How long have you been attracted to men?

>>701093

Around high school

>>701094

Did you ever liked women before?

>>701096

>Did you ever liked women before?

Ive like them as people but never had any sexual desire towards them (though vaginas absolutely disgust me)

>>700992

>Sex isn't the kind of life-affirming experience you think it is

There's so many reasons to think the contrary though. Check your privilege, elect-chad

My Asperger's has gotten better. I'm actually mostly verbal now, but I still randomly move and chortle, and so on…

I highly doubt I had much Chad in me. If there was, it's been stamped out and exterminated. Inheriting weak genetics and on top of that, getting feminised hardcore in my most important years.

>>701401

This is another fear I have. If I do *somehow* get married to a woman, I'll never be able to reciprocate how it should be. It'll be dishonest and I don't know what I'd do.

>>701432

Well a few things to consider some women are vastly less sexual/have really low sex drives (which decreases even more with age), likewise when push comes to shove you can just take viagra, close your eyes and soldier on.

Remember men with homosexual urges have been marrying and fathering children for millennia - and they didnt even have pills - it can certainly be done. Also think of all the lesbians and other women who were victims of non consensual arranged marriages. Its an age old burden

>>701432

>>701401

>>701443

I don't think it's good for gay men to have wives and children. We still don't know whether homosexuality is really inherited genetically or not. Besides, if you have a son and lust after him, that would be so not cool.

>>701463

>I don't think it's good for gay men to have wives and children.

So you think they should ignore the commands in the bible and treat homosexuality as an identity?

>We still don't know whether homosexuality is really inherited genetically or not.

If we you refused to have children on the grounds they are likely to be sinful or suffer sinful temptations there would not be a single worthy child on earth.

>Besides, if you have a son and lust after him, that would be so not cool.

Im not into kids or incest anymore than your own parents are into you or your sisters

>>701463

I'm pretty sure that it isn't inherited.

>if you have a son and lust after him, that would be so not cool.

Please don't say that. I know that my ilk are full of pedeos and other absolutely detestable people. But it just inflames my fears more.

It's a symptom, not a sickness in and of itself. The sickness is denying the Holy Spirit, which all faggots have done.

>>701844

>The sickness is denying the Holy Spirit

What does this mean in the context you are using it?

>>701858

The Eternal Sin.

>>701888

You have to elaborate and be more descriptive, Anon. I don't know what that is.

>>701894

The one sin God will not forgive.

A homosexual becomes a homosexual when he acts on it or indulges in it. You may have those urges, but by recognizing those urges as wrong, you begin to control it. You choose to indulge in it, you choose to reject it. This is the struggle of Christianity: we all must strive to be Christ-like, but when we fail we must get back up. Its the effort that matters. Much more than the effort, but the intent. Faith without works is dead, and so is intent without effort.

Sodomy is like any demon: you let it in, it makes a home, and it hates it when someone tries to kick it out.

>>700908

I don't want to live according to what I think.

Either way, when I mean incel, i mean with all its trappings. Nobody wants me then.

The reason homosexuality is a sin, is because it consumes the soul. All faggots think about is being gay. Same with chronic masturbators, it's all they can think about is how long it's been since their last fap. Being all consumed in lust like this stops you from being spiritually productive for others.

If you have faith enough to come here to ask for help, then stop anxiously guzzingly cum and start helping faith blossom in yourself in others. What is God going to do if he comes back and we're all sucking each other off doing nothing else? He is going to be PISSED OFF.

>>701840

>but the union shouldn't be so mechanical, impersonal, uninvested.

Marraige is more than just sex, and likewise I hate to break it to you but for vast majority of women especially when they hit their 40s and their sex drive plummets this becomes an inevitable issue. Marriage is not all sunshine and roses there is give and take and this is guaranteed.

>i dont want it to be a burden or a hassle

Denying a woman children and a christian husband is probably the most vicious burden you can place on them short of literally harming them.

>and the appeal to history doesn't help much.

Its not an appeal to history but an appeal to reality - this whole homosexuality as an identity is a modern aberration and you are forgetting this. Take solace in that there is at least 1900 years of workable examples of people overcoming these temptations in a godly fashion it is nowhere near as impossible or difficult as you think.

>. it's just so dishonest

You think its dishonest to have sex with people you arent sexually attracted to? What do you think the telos of sex is?

>living a lie for something you can't even see.

I might have been hasty with my short hand - but see other posts here - I dont identify homosexuality as a part of who I am and neither should you.

>>702097

>Marriage is more than sex

Saying marriage is more than sex is like saying GNU is more than the kernel.

>Denying a woman children and a christian husband is probably the most vicious burden you can place on them short of literally harming them.

Yeah, I'll still have children if it's possible, but I want to be able to have children without any sort of incitement or *fire* to it.

>homosexuality as an identity

not sure what you mean by this. i dont centre my life around it. but i still consider it a part of 'me'. as in, christian first, what flavour of ice cream i like last, and this *problem* somewhere in the mdidle, isn't it?

>>702097

The telos of sex is childbirth, I know that much, but still! That sounds like "ends justify the means". w/e.

>>702097

>I dont identify homosexuality as a part of who I am

But it is, isn't it? It is a part of you?