/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Emotions =\= souls imho. Animals can feel anger because it's important for them to defend themselves (or their territory, mates, etc) and all other emotions have an impact on their survival. I love my dogs and I know for sure that they love me but they don't have souls, at least nothing like a human soul.

>>698980

How does sadness help animals survive in the wild? Dogs and monkeys comfort each other when they are sad.

>>698985

>Dog comforting other dog having a nightmare

>>698980

>Sea lion shows concerned for a girl falling down

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't divine judgement and salvation an irrelevance for unfallen creatures of God?

I always figured animals were what God wanted them to be, just as they are, not sinful creatures like humans. Whatever their metaphysical reality is, its got to be different than it is for us humans who needed a Savior to rescue us from the consequences of sin and death. We'll find out when we die, I guess, but I suspect Gods plan for animals is something we aren't even apprised of.

>>698985

Creating bonds within a pack/group is incredibly important for survival.

>>698995

We made animals fall right alongside the world. Animals wouldn't be running around devouring each other a killing their own infants for survival if not for us.

>>698997

what? do you think plants are sinners too?

>>699005

Plants are robots made from fibers.

>>699008

Just like animals

I imagine other living organisms have reincarnatory souls/spirits what have you or some form of energy that is recycled. Pretty hard to imagine a heaven accommodating an ever growing population of insect souls along with every other living organism. I imagine the energy is redistributed varyingly.

>>698997

Umm I don't think animals are all monogamous and prudish or even ethical. The consumption of the male spider mate by the female is the climax of its life. If we have to somehow reason this within the framework of the creation narrative then maybe the more treacherous creatures inhabited the outside of the garden of Eden.

Maybe it's just mammals that have developed a heightened sense of morality closer to human.

>>699038

>Umm

Into the trash

>>698960

Animals have material spirit, at least, from I understand. It's more complicated than plant life, and it's not nearly to our degree. The imago dei. I can certainly say they have simple emotions and feelings as they are, in the wild.

Some people have compared them to robots, others say there is something more there. The exact nature is a mystery to me. But, I think it's irrelevant. Even if they were automatons, while we are meant manage them, God is the ultimate owner of them. They are ultimately here for our needs, and I am grateful for it, but if I need from them I do not wish to waste what is provided. And not to abuse that provision. I wouldn't smash up my boss' Lexus, and I wouldn't cause ruination on deer herds for mere sport.

>>699005

Plants are scientifically known to steal the resources from other plants in order to kill that which not like themselves, and to eat. They specifically find those plants they are not related to, and can discern the difference. It's very simple in nature, an order of magnitude less complex than anything animal and human. But they are that way as well. It really seems that the Fall was the most terrible thing.

>>699054

>NAA

>>699080

Would it kill you to type out the whole sentence.

>>699009

Obviously biology isn’t your forte. Animals are much more advance than plants. Though I still believe animals don’t have souls, at least in the sense humans do, calling them machines would be quite prideful as we would be the same things if it wasn’t for our soul.

>its an animal thread

>Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. -Genesis 1

>No good thing will He withhold from those who walk uprightly. - Psalm 84:11

>Before the throne there was a sea of glass, like crystal. And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second living creature like a calf, the third living creature had a face like a man, and the fourth living creature was like a flying eagle. 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:

>“Holy, holy, holy,

>Lord God Almighty,

>Who was and is and is to come!”

>Revelation 4:6–8

So what do we know here:

1) There are/will be? animals in heaven, at least those 4 beasts.

2) God is omnipotent and could make an eternal soul out of an animal soul if he so choosed.

3) God will shower you with Good things if you make it to heaven.

4) Animals are good.

I personally think animals that interact with humans in a notable way will be preserved into heaven if God wills it. A random ant that never interacted with a human will not. But who knows.

>>698990

>>698989

>>698985

>>698960

How cute! Such holyness!

>>699085

>There are/will be? animals in heaven, at least those 4 beasts.

Those beasts are a metaphor for the Four Evangelists.

The Lion is Matthew, the human face one is Mark, the calf is Luke and the Eagle is John.

MODS

ITT: protestants either their Disney """theology"""

>>701512

just fyi different fathers have had different assignments to the four living creatures. but yeah sort of unanimously are assigned to the four evangelists and why irenaeus also said there should only be 4 gospels etc (also 4 cardinal directions etc)

>>698960

Yes, all animals have a soul. We are one race, the animal race. We must show them the gospel and undo the economic factors and human supremacy that cause their inequality.

>>701690

I dont know if this is an ironic post or anon being actually retarded

This is the level on which this board fell

>>699005

Nature conformed to our fall, obviously plants aren't evil but nature can be brutal towards human life, animals now devour one another, poisonous plants, natural disasters, ect.

>the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together

>People think that animals devouring eachother is bad

wew

>Inb4 "death entered…"

Thats about humans that were "made incorruptible and were made to be an image of God's own eternity."

>>701710

How is it good? The cyclical nature of life consuming life is clearly a symptom of the fall, eventually to be reversed by the consumption of Christ's body and blood that gives eternal life

>>701715

Its just a material being getting consumed by another material being and so on and so fort. Its nothing special, just like stone being thrown in lava, getting melted and disintegrated.

Bodily death of human, however is separation of its body and immortal soul, a great tragedy. For man was made both material and immaterial, union of body and soul.

I see nothing bad or awful in death of animals. Just a bad reminder that our bodies will suffer same fate.

>>701718

Animals still feel pain and have a base consciousness, unless you're a sociopath you don't see an animal suffering and not feel anything. The current order of things is not how they should be, yes it's definitely a reminder to us because we're victims to original sin just like the whole of nature.

>>701721

They are material beings, they will feel nothing after they die, they are not eternal, they do not have Image and Likeness of God (Even Angels are debated and most who apply it on them usually apply only part of it, ultimately making Humans only true beings made in Image of God, confirmed by the Bible).

Their suffering and death, at the end, means nothing.

>>701723

It obviously doesn't "mean nothing", everything has meaning. The suffering and savagery of the fallen state of nature is in alignment with the suffering of Christ, we did this to him and all of creation.