/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>697843

>Maybe because I'm not a disingenuous pos who can't even give a proper verse reference?

what's your problem - citing Second Peter Chapter Three, Verse Sixteen as '2 Pet 3:16' is a totally legit formatting, ain't it?

>>697857

By that logic we should be following the Quran, the Vedas, or the Guru Granth Sahib because they are also holy books

If you really want a detailed representation of Sola Scriptura, i advise you to watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFbZKinxKxQ&t=0s&index=2&list=PL5Vw8F9C8KaN-GqZWBlvLh_0IHZi5AHPb

Orthodox Christian Theology - About the Sola Scriptura

>>697857

Actually, it's more:

>we don't know what constitutes a bird

>the Bible says eagles are birds

>therefore eagles are authoritatively birds

>there could be other kinds of birds, but there's no way to authoritatively declare that a sparrow is in fact a bird, so only eagles really count but it could still be useful to study sparrows, just not essential to ornithology like eagles are

>>697857

>See the problem with this argument? I have proved that eagles are birds (Bible is infallible, inspired, etc. deposit of doctrine), but it doesn't follow that only eagles (the Bible) are birds; seagulls, sparrows, etc. also are birds, along with eagles.

i think i'm following you, but wouldn't the SS argument be that since Christ taught the Scriptures as the only infallible, inerrant, inspired revelation of God's will, then they have all the proof one needs to assert Scripture to be the sole infallible rule of Faith

that's why i mentioned His handling of the Old Testament at the beginning, alluding to the recorded words of Christ where His constant refrain is 'It is written…'

>>697886

do you think i'm being a little reductive in my characterisation of the Sola Scriptura position, missing something that Dr. White would include?

>>697882

No. Just because somebody calls them "holy" it does not make them so.

Weak argument mate. Unless you're universalist. But again then your argument would be automatically discarded anyway

>>697931

Couple things here. First off, notice a few of the following exclusionary statements made specifically about scripture:

<Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

<For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

<But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. - 1 Peter 1:23-25

<But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

<So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:16-17

From this we see that we are saved by the word of God– that is their report– and that this is what is the gospel. That is what saves you, it is what is required for faith, and it is the word of God, that endures forever, never withering away. Can't say that about anything else.

—

<We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

<Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

<For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. - 2 Peter 1:19-21

<Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

<18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

<Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; - Hebrews 6:17-19

From here we see how the fact God's word never goes wrong, and being sure in the scripture and the fact of its inspiration from God being the final assurance in it is the basis on which they were able to believe it. Being from God, the scripture is of no possible private interpretation, there exists exactly one objective interpretation (given by God, Lk. 24:45) to get because God is behind it. Thinking about this verse in specific, we realize it can't be said of any man's word, only of the word of God which is scripture as 2 Peter 1:20 applies it to. And that's the sure word. You can't say that about anything except God's word.

—

<If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

<He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

<And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. - 1 John 5:9-11

<It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. - John 6:63

So here we see that in order to have life in you (see John 6:53) you must have the word of God. And again that the witness of God is greater than the witness of man. Which as 2 Peter 1:21 explained, God inspired the scriptures, making them the word of God. These are forever greater than the witness of any man.

>>698047

2 Timothy 3:16-17

<All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Here we are told in plain language that the man of God will be perfect, meaning complete, with respect to doctrine and all other good works even. You see, verse 17 is known as a "final clause" in English, also called a purposive clause, because it explains the reason why "all scripture" was given. It was given so that the man of God may be perfect. And indeed since God gave it, this can be sure to happen without fail.

Isaiah 55:11

<So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

—

Galatians 1:9

<As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Acts 20:29-32

<For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

>Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

<Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

<And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

So here we see the fact that Paul knew people would arise after him who would try to draw away disciples with new doctrines, doctrines of devils (i.e. 1 Tim 4:1-3), and to hold fast to the word of his grace, which he entrusted them to after he left. And this is possible because God has already given his Spirit to directly enable his elect understand it (i.e. 1 Thess 2:13, 1 Cor 2:12-13, 1 John 2:27, John 14:16-17 & 16:13-14, Luke 11:9-13, 2 Cor 1:21-22, etc.) Hope that gives you a slightly better basis of understanding.

>>697886

Literally the worst person ever to speak of Sola Scriptura. His position is no different than solo scriptura. How do I know this? Simple, he doesnt believe the Church is the interpreter of Scripture and infallible by it holding on to the truth since the beginning, as all the Church Fathers had stated.

>>697857

The bible says that revelation ceases with the apostles (Jude 3). However, what about "apostolic tradition", which is claimed to be passed down from the apostles? It is impossible for an oral tradition to be the words of God, because unlike scripture, it is not straight from God's mouth. Even if we took the so-called apostolic tradition as valid (it isn't) it could not be considered divine revelation, since it is admitted we do not have the very words of the apostles in it. Instead, it is said to be the teachings of the apostles passed down from bishop to bishop. But that would mean at best it is not substantially different from a preacher relating the teaching of scripture. But this is why holy scripture is the sole rule of faith, and supreme judge of all disputes in religion, because it is the very words of God Himself. If Christ were to return and speak verbally directly to us, His words would not be more divine than scripture. Sola scriptura is the doctrine that God is the author of our religion, since it means we always defer to His judgment.

interesting https://8ch.net

>>708049

Also it says in 1 Peter 1:23-25 the following:

>Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

>For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass.

>The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

So then, it's clearly stated here that the word of the Lord endures forever, that this is its distinct quality, and that it is this gospel that we have believed in. Not some other gospel, some non-preserved corruptible word that got handed down with no record of it. That's a fraud my friend, just as Mark 7:8-9 describes it:

>For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

>And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Also also,

1 John 5:9-10

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

>>708042

and the Holy Spirit moves and speaks through the Church.