/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>697712

>The protestant says "I'm saved, I can do whatever I want."

False, the protestant says, "I'm saved, so I'm not going to beat myself up constantly over whether or not I'm going to hell (what a depressing way to live). I'll still ask God for forgiveness because I love Him and want to follow Him as my Lord, and live in joy because I'm not constantly sweating about my future."

>The catholic says "it doesn't matter that I winnie the poohed my girlfriend. I'll give a homeless man a buck tomorrow."

Also false. The Catholic says, "Uh… let me get back to you on that, I need to go to confession today. And tomorrow. And the day after that. And the day after that too."

The catholic believes he must go to confession, and it is right for him because he believes.

The protestant believes he can confess to God, and it is right for him because he believes.

>>697714

I like what you said, but they're both true. You only extrapolated on what I said.

Do not call me False.

>>697714

You should be worried about pissing God off because you love Him.

>>697718

>>697714

Sorry, I didn't read your whole post. I am probably protestant the most.

>>697714

>>697719

Interesting, however, that it was a protestant that tested me.

>>697712

>Both abuses rely on lying to god about faith

You can't lie to God, only to yourself

The Catholic route is the easier route. A man can proclaim that he has faith, and do many good works. However, even the evil do good works.

The Protestant route is the easier route. A man can proclaim that he has faith and do no good works.

>>697722

Absolutely true

if you reject sola fide, you inevitably resort to contradictory ideas and makes you manipulable.

I do not reject sola fide.

>>697718

Well, I don't worry about it like it keeps me up at night. I know that we struggle with a sinful nature and that we should strive to please God, but salvation by faith means that we have assurance, and that is a big game changer. It means that even when we fall short of the glory of God, we always know that God loves us in spite of this, that God is always there to help us recover from a fall. It means that we are in Jesus Christ's hand and can never be snatched from it. It is reassurance that yes, we are truly a new creation in Christ and that while we still live with our groaning flesh, we are fundamentally His. It means that Satan's tactic of reminding you of your failures and humiliations won't work because you know that God's Son died for you, with all your failures and humiliations, to wash them away and make you worthy of entering into His rest with Him.

It is like when a human father tells his son that no matter what happens, he will love him. This is the story of the prodigal son.

>>697727

I love you

>>697722

>You can't convince God of a lie you've convinced yourself with

ftfy

How can someone be so all-encompassingly wrong? It boggles the mind.

You, like 99% of Christians, don't understand the Catholic teaching on justification. I'm going to break it down for you since so many people can't seem to grasp this.

1. You cannot merit salvation through your own works. Only the sacrifice of Jesus Christ can save people.

2. True faith in Jesus Christ necessarily means following his commands. To have faith and believe in Jesus is to follow Jesus and do as he wills, which means doing good works. Jesus says this explicitly in Matthew 25. Faith is not a state of mind like Protestants believe, faith is action and living your life in obedience to Christ.

>“Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

>For I hungered, and ye gave Me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink;

>I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in; naked, and ye clothed Me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited Me not.’

3. Although you cannot merit salvation based on your works you can LOSE salvation based on your works. Jesus tells us if you do not avoid sin then you will be rejected by him and your name erased from the book of life. Thus it is important to avoid sin as much as possible.

>If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

So no, the Catholic does not say "It doesn't matter", the Catholic is put into a state of mortal sin that can mean if they die without receiving the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) then they will not be saved.

>>697712

True faith (faith of heart) give us Grace, Grace saves us and allow us to do the works that testimony this faith.

Among the works are included struggle against temptations, small victories and repentance.

You can never really do enough works to be saved on your own merit, also great victories are caused not by our strenght but by Grace.

However simply to believe and not trying to fight sin or repent or do what God wants is not going to be enough. The Grace will retire from the negligent man.

Struggle to do good and to avoid sin is necessary, but not sufficient to stay in Grace.

Grace saves, not own merits, Grace is given by faith but our small and insufficient works are necessary to keep it or else Jesus on judgment will say ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’

This is my understanding, I frankly don't care about the "official" opinions of the various denominations. This is what I understand from the Bible and my personal experience with sin and fall of grace. I don't care about sola this, sola that, or other formulas made by men.

>>697737

>faith is action and living your life in obedience to Christ.

On the contrary, it isnt that, which is why there can be dead faith, and why faith alone does not justify.

>>697712

Christians don't understand the word "works". Works isn't just your behavior, it's your adherence to religious ritual or ceremony. Occult religions are all about doing religious rituals to gain spiritual power. Salvation by grace not works mean that you don't gain salvation by finding the right secrets and engaging in the right rituals.

>>697737

>You, like 99% of Christians, don't understand the Catholic teaching on justification.

Says the catholic that doesn't understand the bible. Catholics are just the same as jews. They don't grasp the bible because it's actually not their religion. Jews have the talmud and catholics have the catechism. The bible for Catholics is just a prop so the satan worshippers that run the church can con the faithful into thinking their babylonian mysticism is actually christianity.

>You cannot merit salvation through your own works. . .True faith in Jesus Christ necessarily means following his commands. . .to follow Jesus and do as he wills, which means doing good works. . .faith is action

What you've done in your little post is engage in the mindwinnie the pooh common to babylonian mysticism, freemasonry, and talmudism. You begin by claiming that you are saved by faith not works and then lapse into circular reasoning and arrive at the assertion that faith IS "action", i.e. works.

"Works" isn't the way you live your life. It's not loving people, loving God, treating people the way you want to be treated, or following the commandments. Works are religious acts- ceremonies, rituals, study. Catholic communion is Works as are all the other occult rituals you baby rapers perform in service to your satan worshipping pedophile masters.

>>698163

oh, we can't say f-u-c-k on this board? grow up mods.

>>698163

>It's not loving people, loving God, treating people the way you want to be treated, or following the commandments

I know Protestants like to pretend that the book of James doesn't exist, but come on now.

>What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Feeding and clothing the poor is a religious ritual? It's always funny when you people claim that your doctrine is entirely biblical then ignore every single passage that completely contradicts your dumb sola fide theology.

>The catholic says "it doesn't matter that I winnie the poohed my girlfriend. I'll give a homeless man a buck tomorrow."

not how it works

read this https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/num_sins.shtml

He who receives pardon, says St. Augustine, is pardoned through the pure mercy of God; and they who are chastised, are justly punished. How many has God sent to Hell for the first offense? St. Gregory relates, that a child of five years, who had arrived at the use of reason, for having uttered a blasphemy, was seized by the Devil and carried to Hell. The divine Mother revealed to that great servant of God, Benedicta of Florence, that a boy of twelve years was damned after the first sin. Another boy of eight years died after his first sin, and was lost. You say: I am young; there are many who have committed more sins than I have. But is God on that account obliged to wait for your repentance if you offend Him? In the Gospel of St. Matthew (21:19), we read that the Savior cursed a fig tree the first time He saw it without fruit. "May no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. An immediately the fig tree withered away." You must, then tremble at the thought of committing a single mortal sin, particularly if you have already been guilty of mortal sins.

works also have literally nothing to do with justification in Catholicism, it's obedience to God and doing his will/not rejecting his graces that matters.

Mortal sin can damn you because it's a rejection of God, and that's why Catholics go to hell. We are returned to a state of justification by baptism but if we mortally sin we lose that, and God could kill us after any mortal sin and if we abuse his mercy he will certainly do that. If he abandons sinners to abuse his mercy it's just so he can punish them more in hell.

Confession or an act of perfection contrition (repenting of your sins because of love of God not because of fear or any selfish reason) can restore that Grace.

Confession you can get the grace just because of fear of hell though so it's actually reliable.

For more reading on people abusing God's mercy by thinking they can go to confession read this as well

http://alphonsianum.blogspot.com/2010/04/abuse-of-divine-mercy.html

>>698166

newfag

OP here. let me add an update:

The protestant says "I can winnie the pooh my girlfriend. Jesus has saved me."

The Catholic says "I can winnie the pooh my girlfriend. I'll just confess it and take the eucharist."

>>698436

read my post

>>698180

they can say that but they'll just go to hell it's abuse of divine mercy but they probably have no idea about the faith anyway

(for Catholics)

>>697712

Both examples are absurdist strawmen

>>697737

This guy has the right idea about faith being shown through works but those works not individually granting salvation, which is only granted through Christ