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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 1095dac879f1dc2⋯.png (60.01 KB, 500x347, 500:347, who-is-the-virgin-mary-ort….png)

6def77  No.693660

Should I become Catholic, Lutheran, or Orthodox?

fd4b45  No.693674

>>693660

Orthodox


2e1c67  No.693676

>>693660

Orthodox


fa0e7d  No.693678

File: fe18a4fb958e56e⋯.jpg (11.67 KB, 464x447, 464:447, Begome#.jpg)


a05b5d  No.693680

Orthodox


2b96e8  No.693682

GADOLIG


acd1c3  No.693684

File: f34c4dd045af5b5⋯.jpg (97.9 KB, 603x900, 67:100, 8651630f684ee0b74fc71bb098….jpg)

>>693660

You knoe…


d8b87a  No.693685

File: 358753337c2e514⋯.jpg (140.08 KB, 500x713, 500:713, 0ee3ad1fe7c1199ae6d8f41930….jpg)

File: 28b012c36c2aa58⋯.jpg (212.77 KB, 894x894, 1:1, Mary-Rosary-Padre-Pio-rosa….jpg)

File: 65d779156a350f4⋯.jpg (19.76 KB, 236x314, 118:157, e10827e8fe9c9397a598446ac8….jpg)

File: ceef77adec029c3⋯.jpg (192.23 KB, 638x479, 638:479, 2-the-power-of-rosary-10-6….jpg)

File: b0276e779442560⋯.jpg (126.14 KB, 640x1136, 40:71, fulton sheen.jpg)

>>693660

BEGOME GADOLIC AND SERVE ON THE FRONT LINES OF A LITERAL SPIRITUAL WAR TODAY!


858d64  No.693686

test


6399b5  No.693688

>>693660

Preferably not a heretic


e133c4  No.693696

>>693660

BEGOM

GADOLIG


a05b5d  No.693698

>>693685

>As spoken by the devil to

Oh, such a valuable source of information.


fa0e7d  No.693699

File: 6f09c89d8ab4288⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 132.14 KB, 885x996, 295:332, Begome Cathodox.jpg)

>>693680

All these replies, I guess there is only one answer.


d8b87a  No.693702

>>693698

So you deny that the holy Theotokos took her place in heaven and was rewarded with the place once held by the fallen angel Lucifer and now commands the legion of angels in spiritual warfare against the demons of this world?


0aadfb  No.693706

>>693660

What is the earliest Christian reference calling Mary 'mother of God'?


d8b87a  No.693707

>>693706

0 BC when she gave birth to Jesus who is God. Do you people not believe in the Trinity?

Mary is the Daughter of God

Mary is Married to the Holy Spirit

Mary is the Mother of Jesus

She is the ultimate adorer of the Trinity.


ae9c56  No.693708

>>693705

Mary herself stated her blessedness is reflected through her son, and since Muslims deny Christ's divinity they don't hold her to the same esteem as Christians do.


05793d  No.693709

>>693706

what >>693707 said

To say Mary is not the Mother of God is to suggest Christ is not God.


0aadfb  No.693710

>>693707

That's not what I meant. I meant, what is the earliest recorded historical reference of Christians using that title for her?


21ebd5  No.693713

>>693707

>Mary is the Daughter of God

>Mary is Married to the Holy Spirit

And where is this in the KJV Bible?


05793d  No.693717

>>693707

oh lol, i skimmed over this post. D&C posters, why are you here?


0aadfb  No.693718

>>693707

>Mary is Married to the Holy Spirit

Wait, what? I missed this the first time. I thought she was married to Joseph.


0aadfb  No.693720

>>693717

I just googled it, apparently Catholics do believe this. Frightening.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-is-the-holy-spirit-called-marys-spouse


0aadfb  No.693723

>>693721

>Well it follows right. The Holy Spirit impregnated Mary with Jesus. Sex and having children outside of marriage is a sin. Only through marriage may you conceive children. God is perfect. God cannot sin. Therefore the Holy Spirit is married to Mary.

I can't believe what I'm reading. The Holy Spirit had sex with Mary? This is Mormon tier. Mary was married to Joseph. She was not a bigamist.


bebde3  No.693727

>>693702

Seeing as Christ is the new morning star, yes. Not to say that she doesn't hold an important office, just not that particular one.


d8b87a  No.693728

>>693723

They did not have sex that is ludicrous but the Holy Spirit did conceive in Mary a child.

>>693727

Fair enough.


05793d  No.693731

>>693720

>The pious custom of referring to the Holy Spirit as the spouse of Mary is a symbolic expression of Mary's perpetual virginity and the virgin birth of Jesus. It is not meant in a literal manner but rather in terms of Mary's singular devotion to God and unique relationship to the Trinity. It is similar to how religious sisters sometimes refer to Jesus as their spouse.

you left this out


acd1c3  No.693739

>>693702

Actually, the bible says Michael the archangel commanded the army of God, while Satan lead the fallen angels. So Michael would be the commander of the angels. Mary is above the angels, though, so, after the Holy Trinity, she is the most powerful in Heaven.


15626d  No.693744

>>693660

Catholuthodox, obviously.


a05b5d  No.693747

>>693745

Steven Anderson, pls go away


e831ab  No.693807

File: 63cae904b4acdb7⋯.png (4.36 MB, 2208x1242, 16:9, 8BB471D5-2C89-48BB-9648-D9….png)


ea484b  No.693812

File: ac72fc73d90bd1b⋯.png (52.54 KB, 1059x546, 353:182, 1488081984189.png)

>>693660

High quality thread. Also I'll vote for Lutherans since nobody else seems to be. They're pretty cool as long as you join a confessional group and not something like the ELCgAy.


9ae912  No.693820

Go to a baptist church anon. A conservative, traditional one. Read Peter 2. Peter says works are essential for God's plan for us and for us to be fulfilled and become more Godly but they are not essential for God's forgivness. We get that from faith.


212884  No.693831

File: 6b76c6f92b50a43⋯.jpg (62.03 KB, 800x520, 20:13, winnie the poo.jpg)


d71e22  No.693845

if you become catholic you run the high risk of getting raped.


d71e22  No.693846

>>693820

do you mean james 2?


31ce98  No.693850

>>693660

Byzantine Rite Lutheran


fd1417  No.693853

>>693660

Lutheran.


bcdbc0  No.693860

>>693660

Orthodox


bcdbc0  No.693861

>>693685

>AND SERVE ON THE FRONT LINES OF A LITERAL SPIRITUAL WAR TODAY

The only war you will serve in in the Catholic church is the LGBT war:

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/gay-catholic-inside-the-seminary-closet/


99c19c  No.693862

File: 17f8ba3ce196c8e⋯.jpg (25.44 KB, 1110x400, 111:40, 17f8ba3ce196c8eb517fa65f9d….jpg)

>>693660

LCMS or WELS


4cde38  No.693872

Catholic or Orthodox, so you participate in actual communion with The Lord.

Then, pray for ecemunicism (however it's spelt.)

Pray, and follow the guidance of The Spirit to decide which one. Both have their own internal strife, and both need holy members to preserve them.

But reach out to Protestants wherever you meet them. They need Grace just as much as we do.


bcdbc0  No.693888

>>693872

>pray for ecemunicism (however it's spelt.)

ecumenists in a nutshell


4cde38  No.693892

File: 9602f1634d281b9⋯.jpg (28.24 KB, 405x405, 1:1, cbd106fb-3767-4156-a7b1-0e….jpg)

>>693888

Doesn't know how to convince every individual protestant of the truth of the church?

Isn't educated well enough to untangle orthodox and Roman theology?

Or has unwavering faith that the Holy Spirit can see this done, because we are never truly alone in any endeavour?

Or are you talking out ya ass?


ffd9e0  No.693961

>>693820

wrong. Baptist OSAS is false. See:

https://pastebin.com/R4kgCprC


d99f85  No.693962

>>693707

>0BC

Anon…


130b18  No.694994

Ha, I narrowed it down to those three as well, anon. I went Catholic.


3c207e  No.695000

>>693892

To be honest I think youre all gay fruitcakes in disguise. You won't let me have sex with animals. You punish me if I don't have sex with my own kind the way a gay man has sex with another man.


94e1af  No.695005

>>693731

>perpetual virginity

Ok so I'm not a catholic so I've never dabbled with the idea of Mary being divine or anything but are guys really saying Mary stayed a virgin her whole entire life when she had other kids (that aren't Jesus) with Joseph, or is there more to this perpetual virginity thing than what it exactly sounds like.


0823f7  No.695013

The Mar Thoma Church, Assyrian Church of the East, and high church movements appear to offer the best compromise or balance for those who find disagreement with practices in all major Christian divisions. Good luck finding them in your area though.


c8eb2d  No.695068

Can we ban the "which denomination should i choose" threads please?

[spoiler/]also BEGOME[spoiler]


2e0090  No.695137

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

A Lutheran, at least.


0ce603  No.695192

>>693706

>Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


a3fc70  No.695194

It's more important to have Christ born in you so you can acquire authentic Faith and thirst for righteousness. Bickering about sects is worthless. If you want to hear good sermons try out different churches, see what they are like. No need to limit yourself to one and see others as heretical. I prefer going to orthodox churches cause of the sacraments and liturgy, but Lutheran are also good. Even Baptists are decent sometimes…


a3fc70  No.695196

>>695000

Seek mental help.


18fb55  No.695267

You could become Catholic in order to slowly root out those heretics inside until you reach into Cardinal position and ignite inquisition against the enemies within.


a05b5d  No.695300

>>695005

>she had other kids (that aren't Jesus) with Joseph

They were Josephs children and adoptive brethren of Jesus. Yes, Mary stayed Virgin.


560564  No.695302

File: bd40ccceeedd253⋯.jpg (66.36 KB, 497x594, 497:594, monk.jpg)

The true successor of Peter would never start an inquisition and crusades, killing in the name of God.

The successor of Peter is the first among equals, not infallible ex-cathedra authority.

"Vicar" means the Master is gone. He is not. He is the Rock, the Cornerstone of the Church, fully alive!

The Orthodox Church was founded by Christ Himself, the traditions were kept exactly how the Church Fathers have written and nothing was changed or modernised. It's the same as it was 2 thousand years ago.


6dcb7e  No.695307

>>695302

>implying that either the Crusades or the Inquisition were bad things


a05b5d  No.695308

>>695302

>inquisition was bad

>crusades were bad

I mean, I'm Ortho, but I call this one bull


560564  No.695309

>>695307

>>695308

>violence of the name of God

God wants you to repent.

I will pray for you.


4ae1b5  No.695315

>>693707

>married to the Holy Spirit

>as well as St. Joseph

The Theotokos isn't an adultress.


4ae1b5  No.695317

File: 0621f5aa40e188b⋯.png (259.54 KB, 1794x547, 1794:547, PeterIsTheRock.png)

>>695302

>Orthodox

PETER IS THE ROCK OK

also daily reminder that the Eastern Orthodox churches allow remarriage and contraception, and in some situations, abortion


d3787a  No.695357

>>695005

Mary did not conceive any more children with Joseph.

Though very rare it's still very plausible looking at it through biblical analysis.

I'm catholic, so I'll have a bias, got to give you that.

Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit (why we call her the spiritual bride of God) around the age of 12-13, and gave birth to Jesus around 13-14 (estimates are between 12-15 but let's take 14 as a nice number).

Now let's go all through the four gospels, and we'll notice something odd; Joseph gets rarely mentioned and not anymore midway into any gospel.

This combined with Christ giving His mother in care to one of His apostles, we can safely assume that he died rather soon.

The significance of this is that Joseph was already very old when he was appointed as Mary's husband.

Let's go back a bit to Jesus being a 12yo boy who went to the elders in the temple to discuss Scripture (this is the latest that Joseph gets mentioned by his name in any gospel by the way).

Mary could not have safe sex for lets say 3 weeks and not be ovulating for (give or take a week) 2 months after giving birth to Jesus, but after that she should've been good to go in a biological sense (though childbirth is kind of risky under 16).

However, no mention of any other children were made when they returned to the temple in Jerusalem, while in 12 years time they should've gotten at least 2 other kids, both younger than 12.

We can now go all the way forward again to Christ hanging at the cross.

Christ, before He died, said to Mary: "Women, behold your son!" and directly after said to His disciple "Behold your mother!".

Here we see Jesus give a command to His mother.

On its own this would be scandalous to begin with, a son commanding his mother, but Christ was sinless so this could not be the case.

The only explanation would be that the patriarch of the family (the oldest male) was at that moment Jesus.

So, we can now conclude that Joseph was really dead when Christ died on the cross.

What rests are His plausible brothers and/or sisters.

Christ having blood brothers and/or sisters is also disproved with this verse because Mary would not have needed a new son to care for her if she still had living ones.

Thus we have a few possibilities;

- Mary had only daughters after Jesus

- Mary had sons/daughters after Jesus, but all the sons died before Jesus died, thus leaving her without a man to care for her

- Mary was infertile after Jesus and could not conceive a child with Joseph

- Mary stayed a virgin

I, as a catholic, believe that Joseph who knew about the special circumstances of how Mary got Jesus, who Jesus actually was and considering his relative old age for that time (at least 20 years older than Mary, about halfway through an average peasant male's life in 0 AD) did not consume his marriage with Mary.

In all honesty it's all of the above I explained combined with Holy Tradition where we can see that it was agreed upon that Mary did not bear any more children after Jesus.


0fda3c  No.695548

>>695302

No. The Church Fathers were overwhelmingly against contraception.


a3fc70  No.695561

> "The true Christian does not cling to any particular sect He may participate in the ceremonial service of every sect, and still belong to none. He has only one science, which is Christ within him ; he has only one desire, namely, to do good. Look at the flowers of the field. Each one has its own particular attributes, nevertheless they do not wrangle and fight with each other. They do not quarrel about the possession of sunshine and rain, or dispute about their colors, odor, and taste. Each one grows according to its nature.

> Thus it is with the children of God. Each one has his own gifts and attributes, but they all spring from one Spirit. They enjoy their gifts, and praise the wisdom of Him from whom they originated. Why should they dispute about the

qualities of Him whose attributes are manifest in themselves? Why should all be alike ? Who condemns the

birds of the forest because they do not all sing the same tune;

—-

That being said, if you have authentic faith within you I think you would gravitate towards a more traditional Church, catholic/Ortho/or tradLutheran are basically the only options.

I'm ortho myself. But the other two are not bad…meh


e61fbe  No.695758

go to your nearest church

if you can't get to a church, you probably won't even get baptised in that church

otherwise you're just LARPing


560564  No.695769

>>695317

>>695548

>contraception

Which Orthodox Church you go to fams?

It's always been against Church teachings.


4ee480  No.695771

>>695302

>Fighhting to retake stolen land and free enslaved Christians

>Bad

Salaam.


227367  No.695772

>>693660

I'm going to give you a list of texts given to me by specific person I believe you will find helpful in your decision

The full list is too long for one post so I'll deliver it in a few posts

ST. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (c. 35 – c.107)

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0107.htm

Greeting

Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which has obtained mercy, through the

majesty of the Most High Father, and Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son; the Church which is

beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of

Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God,

worthy of honour, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every

desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from

the Father, which I also salute in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father: to those who are

united, both according to the flesh and spirit, to every one of His commandments; who are filled

inseparably with the grace of God, and are purified from every strange taint, [I wish] abundance of

happiness unblameably, in Jesus Christ our God.

CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Romans (St. Ignatius)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Chapter 3

You have never envied any one; you have taught others. Now I desire that those things may be

confirmed [by your conduct], which in your instructions you enjoin [on others].

Greeting, another translation

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-romans-lightfoot.html

Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her that hath found mercy in the bountifulness of the Father

Most High and of Jesus Christ His only Son; to the church that is beloved and enlightened through

the will of Him who willed all things that are, by faith and love towards Jesus Christ our God; even

unto her that hath the presidency in the country of the region of the Romans, being worthy of God,

worthy of honour, worthy of felicitation, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy in purity, and

having the presidency of love, walking in the law of Christ and bearing the Father's name; which

church also I salute in the name of Jesus Christ the Son of the Father; unto them that in flesh and

spirit are united unto His every commandment, being filled with the grace of God without

wavering, and filtered clear from every foreign stain; abundant greeting in Jesus Christ our God in

blamelessness.

Greeting, another translation, by Fr. Casimir Kucharek, Byzantine Catechism

"To the Church…that presides in the district of the Romans, and which is worthy of God, worthy of

honor, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of credit, worthy of being deemed

holy, and which is the head of the union of charity i.e., of Christendom. "

(oh im sending these in chronological order btw)


227367  No.695773

>>695772

ST. IRENAEUS OF LYONS (130-202)

Against Heresies (Book III, Chapter 1)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103301.htm

Section 1

We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the

Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period,

by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For

it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed "perfect knowledge," as some do

even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles. For, after our Lord rose from

the dead, [the apostles] were invested with power from on high when the Holy Spirit came down

[upon them], were filled from all [His gifts], and had perfect knowledge: they departed to the ends

of the earth, preaching the glad tidings of the good things [sent] from God to us, and proclaiming

the peace of heaven to men, who indeed do all equally and individually possess the Gospel of God

CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, III.1 (St. Irenaeus)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul

were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the

disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by

Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him.

Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish

a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia.

Against Heresies (Book III, Chapter 3)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm

Section 2

Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of

all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil selfpleasing,

by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings;

[we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very

ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious

apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to

our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every

Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem

principalitatem].

CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, III.3 (St. Irenaeus)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (c. 150 – c. 215)

Who is the Rich Man That Shall Be Saved?

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/clement-richman.html

Ch.XXI

Therefore on hearing those words, the blessed Peter, the chosen, the pre-eminent, the first of the

disciples, for whom alone and Himself the Saviour paid tribute, quickly seized and comprehended

the saying. And what does he say? "Lo, we have left all and followed Thee? Now if by all he means

his own property, he boasts of leaving four oboli perhaps in all, and forgets to show the kingdom of

heaven to be their recompense. But if, casting away what we were now speaking of, the old mental

possessions and soul diseases, they follow in the Master's footsteps, this now joins them to those

who are to be enrolled in the heavens. For it is thus that one truly follows the Saviour, by aiming at

sinlessness and at His perfection, and adorning and composing the soul before it as a mirror, and

arranging everything in all respects similarly.


227367  No.695774

>>695773

TERTULLIAN (c. 155 – c. 240)

Scorpiace / Antidote to the scorpion's sting

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0318.htm

Chapter 10

For though you think heaven still shut, remember that the Lord left here to Peter and through him to

the Church, the keys of it, which every one who has been here put to the question, and also made

confession, will carry with him.

CHURCH FATHERS: Scorpiace (Tertullian)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

On Modesty

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0407.htm

Chapter 21

I now inquire into your opinion, (to see) from what source you usurp this right to "the Church."

If, because the Lord has said to Peter, "Upon this rock will I build My Church," "to you have I given

the keys of the heavenly kingdom;" or, "Whatsoever you shall have bound or loosed in earth, shall

be bound or loosed in the heavens," you therefore presume that the power of binding and loosing

has derived to you, that is, to every Church akin to Peter, what sort of man are you, subverting and

wholly changing the manifest intention of the Lord, conferring (as that intention did) this (gift)

personally upon Peter? " On you," He says, "will I build My Church;" and, "I will give to you the

keys," not to the Church; and, "Whatsoever you shall have loosed or bound," not what they shall

have loosed or bound. For so withal the result teaches. In (Peter) himself the Church was reared;

that is, through (Peter) himself; (Peter) himself essayed the key; you see what (key): "Men of Israel,

let what I say sink into your ears: Jesus the Nazarene, a man destined by God for you," and so forth.

CHURCH FATHERS: On Modesty (Tertullian)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Prescription against Heretics

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0311.htm

Chapter 23

Still they should show, from the circumstance which they allege of Peter's being rebuked by Paul,

that Paul added yet another form of the gospel besides that which Peter and the rest had previously

set forth. But the fact is, having been converted from a persecutor to a preacher, he is introduced as

one of the brethren to brethren, by brethren — to them, indeed, by men who had put on faith from

the apostles' hands. Afterwards, as he himself narrates, he "went up to Jerusalem for the purpose of

seeing Peter," Galatians 1:18 because of his office, no doubt, and by right of a common belief and

preaching.


227367  No.695775

>>695774

CHURCH FATHERS: The Prescription Against Heretics (Tertullian)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Chapter 36

Come now, you who would indulge a better curiosity, if you would apply it to the business of your

salvation, run over the apostolic churches, in which the very thrones of the apostles are still preeminent

in their places, in which their own authentic writings are read, uttering the voice and

representing the face of each of them severally. Achaia is very near you, (in which) you find

Corinth. Since you are not far from Macedonia, you have Philippi; (and there too) you have the

Thessalonians. Since you are able to cross to Asia, you get Ephesus. Since, moreover, you are close

upon Italy, you have Rome, from which there comes even into our own hands the very authority (of

apostles themselves). How happy is its church, on which apostles poured forth all their doctrine

along with their blood! Where Peter endures a passion like his Lord's! Where Paul wins his crown

in a death like John's where the Apostle John was first plunged, unhurt, into boiling oil, and thence

remitted to his island-exile! See what she has learned, what taught, what fellowship has had with

even (our) churches in Africa! One Lord God does she acknowledge, the Creator of the universe,

and Christ Jesus (born) of the Virgin Mary, the Son of God the Creator; and the Resurrection of the

flesh; the law and the prophets she unites in one volume with the writings of evangelists and

apostles, from which she drinks in her faith. This she seals with the water (of baptism), arrays with

the Holy Ghost, feeds with the Eucharist, cheers with martyrdom, and against such a discipline thus

(maintained) she admits no gainsayer. This is the discipline which I no longer say foretold that

heresies should come, but from which they proceeded. However, they were not of her, because they

were opposed to her.

Even the rough wild-olive arises from the germ of the fruitful, rich, and

genuine olive; also from the seed of the mellowest and sweetest fig there springs the empty and

useless wild-fig. In the same way heresies, too, come from our plant, although not of our kind; (they

come) from the grain of truth, but, owing to their falsehood, they have only wild leaves to show.

ORIGEN OF ALEXANDRIA (c. 184 – c. 253)

Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XIII)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101613.htm

Chapter 31

But since it was necessary, even if something in common had been said in the case of Peter and

those who had thrice admonished the brethren, that Peter should have some element superior to

those who thrice admonished, in the case of Peter, this saying "I will give to you the keys of the

kingdom of the heavens," Matthew 16:19 has been specially set before the words, "And whatever

things you shall bind on earth," etc. And, indeed, if we were to attend carefully to the evangelical

writings, we would also find here, and in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter

and those who have thrice admonished the brethren, a great difference and a pre-eminence in the

things said to Peter, compared with the second class. For it is no small difference that Peter received

the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on the earth

may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and

loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in the heavens, as in the case of Peter,

but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage, with power as Peter to bind and loose in all

the heavens.

CHURCH FATHERS: Commentary on Matthew, Book XIII (Origen)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Commentary on the Gospel of John (Book V)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101505.htm

Section 3

And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail

Matthew 16:18 left only one epistle of acknowledged genuineness.

CHURCH FATHERS: Commentary on John, Book V (Origen)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.


227367  No.695776

>>695775

ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 210 – c. 258)

Treatise 1 - On the Unity of the Church.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050701.htm

Section 4

If any one consider and examine these things, there is no need for lengthened discussion and

arguments. There is easy proof for faith in a short summary of the truth. The Lord speaks to Peter,

saying, "I say unto you, that you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates

of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and

whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever you shall loose

on earth shall be loosed in heaven." And again to the same He says, after His resurrection, "Feed my

sheep." And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, and says,

"As the Father has sent me, even so send I you: Receive the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins you

remit, they shall be remitted unto him; and whose soever sins you retain, they shall be retained; "

John 20:21 yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity,

as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed

with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity.

CHURCH FATHERS: Treatise 1 (Cyprian of Carthage)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Epistle 54 - To Cornelius, Concerning Fortunatus and Felicissimus / Against the Heretics.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050654.htm

Section 7

Nevertheless, Peter, upon whom by the same Lord the Church had been built, speaking one for all,

and answering with the voice of the Church, says, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words

of eternal life; and we believe, and are sure that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God: "

Matthew 15:13 signifying, doubtless, and showing that those who departed from Christ perished by

their own fault, yet that the Church which believes on Christ, and holds that which it has once

learned, never departs from Him at all, and that those are the Church who remain in the house of

God;

CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle 54 (Cyprian of Carthage)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

Section 14

To these also it was not sufficient that they had withdrawn from the Gospel, that they had taken

away from the lapsed the hope of satisfaction and repentance, that they had taken away those

involved in frauds or stained with adulteries, or polluted with the deadly contagion of sacrifices, lest

they should entreat God, or make confession of their crimes in the Church, from all feeling and fruit

of repentance; that they had set up outside for themselves— outside the Church, and opposed to the

Church, a conventicle of their abandoned faction, when there had flowed together a band of

creatures with evil consciences, and unwilling to entreat and to satisfy God. After such things as

these, moreover, they still dare— a false bishop having been appointed for them by, heretics— to

set sail and to bear letters from schismatic and profane persons to the throne of Peter, and to the

chief church whence priestly unity takes its source; and not to consider that these were the Romans

whose faith was praised in the preaching of the apostle, to whom faithlessness could have no access.


227367  No.695777

>>695776

ST. ATHANASIUS OF ALEXANDRIA (c. 296- 373)

Apologia Contra Arianos (Part I)

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/28081.htm

Chapter 2, Section 35

And why was nothing said to us concerning the Church of the Alexandrians in particular? Are you

ignorant that the custom has been for word to be written first to us, and then for a just decision to be

passed from this place ? If then any such suspicion rested upon the Bishop there, notice thereof

ought to have been sent to the Church of this place; whereas, after neglecting to inform us, and

proceeding on their own authority as they pleased, now they desire to obtain our concurrence in

their decisions, though we never condemned him. Not so have the constitutions of Paul, not so have

the traditions of the Fathers directed; this is another form of procedure, a novel practice. I beseech

you, readily bear with me: what I write is for the common good. For what we have received from

the blessed Apostle Peter , that I signify to you; and I should not have written this, as deeming that

these things were manifest unto all men, had not these proceedings so disturbed us.

CHURCH FATHERS: Apologia Contra Arianos, Part I (Athanasius)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

ST. POPE DAMASUS I (c. 305 – 384)

Decree of Damasus, Council of Rome in 382

Translation by William A. Jurgens found in Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 1, page 406

Section 3

Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all these prophetic and evangelic as well as

apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the

Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the

Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ,

nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions

of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who

says: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not

prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall

have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be

loosed in heaven."

In addition to this, there is also the companionship of the vessel of election, the most blessed

Apostle Paul, who contended and was crowned with a glorious death along with Peter in the City of

Rome in the time of the Caesar Nero - not at a different time, as the heretics prattle, but at one and

the same time and on one and the same day: and they are equally consecrated the above-mentioned

holy Roman Church to Christ the Lord; and by their own presence and by their venerable triumph

they set it at the forefront over the others of all the cities of the whole world.


227367  No.695778

>>695777

That good enough for now? I'm a bit tired of cutting this into so many posts


a35ab7  No.695909

>>693660

Read the Bible and visit different communities. Speak with priests.

Intellectual conversion by reading our arguments online will be of no use, you will second guess it sooner or later.

Only experience and true contact with God in prayer and eucharist can lead to a genuine conversion.


a05b5d  No.695913

>>695317

>and in some situations, abortion

t. false witness


d3787a  No.695952

>>695913

Kind of, but the Catholic Church also allows this when the mother's life is in danger and the child cannot be saved.

These cases are very very rare though.




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