/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>690408

One small trial and you jump ship. This further proves that I was right in abandoning all news media, even religious news media, and sticking to God.

>>690409

I can’t tell if he is jumping ship or if he is swimming in the deep dark ocean willing to grab onto any flotilla passing the bar.

>>690408

>Im done with Francis

The best thing about His Holiness is that he's not done with you. He will forever welcome you into the flock regardless of your opinion about him.

>>690413

Why can’t he speak words that inspire us?

>>690416

He does. What inspires you?

>>690409

Implying this is small

Implying this is the only problem the church has in the last century

Hypothetically speaking, how could the Church go about reversing Vatican II and everything that followed without setting a precedent that could be exploited to reverse all Church doctrine?

>>690421

Why do you believe that the Second Vatican Council is the source of all the world's ills? What, honestly, do you believe it changed?

>>690417

Why doesn’t he take on the gay mafia. I see it in my own church. I see it in my own Cathedral. I see it in my diastases seminary. It is everywhere. It is the elephant in the room. I don’t think that Francis comes equipted with a caliber of rifle capable of felling an elephant.

>>690425

So, the only way for you to be inspired is if the Pope turned WBC and carried a "God Hates Fags" sign?

>>690427

Those are some very awkward words you said. You should really read the words you wrote and spend a little time thinking about them.

>>690408

Don't be the seed without roots [The Parable Of The Sower And The Seed (Matthew 13:1-23)] the catholic church is the only way to salvation, you have to weather this storm, don't be misled.

>>690431

>the catholic church is the only way to salvation

Christ is the only way to salvation, and any who say otherwise is a heretic and a fool.

>>690432

But the accusation of “heretic” is the most Catholic thing you can say. For without “Catholic” there would be no “heretics”

>we need to accept the supremacy of the Pope

>until the Pope does something I dont like… then we should all splinter and join other denominations

Sedes are the worst

>>690419

As if the Church has not suffered worse. As if God suddenly stopped existing when a scandal happens.

>>690437

I am as Catholic as they come. But when the bed you lie in is full of worms what do you do? You can find someplace else to sleep, or you can go digging with a sharp trowel.

>>690408

>Spreads the blame to "all of us."

All he said was we should pray and fast. Which we should, we should always pray for holy priests and good leadership from the Church

>>690440

You accept that the Pope, the successor of Peter chosen by God, is probably right and you are probably wrong. That's what papal supremacy is. If you dont accept this, you are not Catholic in the slightest.

>>690475

I’m not trolling with this question, I ask it genuinely; if Francis called you to a Crusade, would you respond?

>>690494

Why has not let that call ring out?

>>690494

>born too late to join the crusades for the holy land

>born too soon to join the crusades for the galaxy

>born just in time for the muslim feet kissing crusades

based pope

>>690440

>as Catholic as they come

Obey your bishop. If he does something suspicious, he has fellow bishops to correct him. If he needs to step down, he will step down. Until then, don't try to be your own Pope.

t. Orthodox

>>690408

Anon this Pope is literally just a figure head put in place by the very people who support these crimes. He is a glorified yes man who is afraid to upset anyone and has his words twisted and poorly communicated all the time for example that time the bishop said POPE FRANCIS WANTS GAYS TO MARY IN CATHOLIC CHURCHES AND IT AIN'T NO SIN when in reality Francis reemphasized the Bible and Church teachings were still in effect on the matter and nothing has changed. The Church will go through many trials as Satan tries to destroy it and every time it comes out the other side more powerful. The Lord clearly said DO NOT LEAVE no matter how bad it gets. The Lord calls us to be Saints and to be a Saint is to bravely suffer for the love of the Lord.

The Church will remain standing and a shepherd who will finally remove the wolves is coming. Do not doubt the Lord all these things needed to happen.

>>690502

Stop Larping. Go back to your board.You are not welcome here.

>>690505

One of my biggest issues is that my bishop is implicated re: the McCarrick situation. I would not doubt him, unless I felt there was sufficient reason.

>>690516

I am not leaving. I know a little bit about what Francis believes and what he has said. My issue is that he is, overwhelmingly, not overwhelming. He is like a place holder. Perhaps that is the most awful thing I have ever said about anyone.

>>690522

Your bishop may be implicated in corruption, but that does not change that he is instituted by the Pope, indeed even by Christ Himself, to be your doctrinal and pastoral authority. If he needs to be gone, he will go away. Either way, remain in communion with him and let God sort it out.

>>690522

Let me give the sede origins of this thread their due. If Francis will retire early as he has eluded to on several occasions; who will be the next Vicar of Christ? Will the gay cabal of Cardinals come together to elect, who?

>>690527

Hell shall not prevail against the Church.

>>690516

Amen! Perhaps, Francis's lukewarm approach is the call for cleansing that God has intended.

>>690522

>Stop Larping

you couldn't tell that post was a joke? wow

Boys are like girls but littlethats why priests do them.

>>690427

does God hate fags, or not, anon? this is important.

>>690427

embarassing

>>690435

>>690502

>>690599

red and based-pilled

>>690599

I'm not catholic but obviously God does put the death penalty on homosexuality

and it's not a ceremonial law either it doesn't figure anything but the destruction of your community.

QUESTION FOR CATHOLICS

Was it God's will for the anti-sodomy laws to be overturned in the 60's?

And if not then why does the pope consistently corroborate every marxist agenda item that politicians put forth?

No I'm just going to stick to reading my bible.

You can talk crap and make yourself feel good about thinking people are going to hell because they're not catholic.

you're being really crappy ambassadors. most people in america understood up until the early 2000's that the catholic church was a complete fraud and our country was far better off before catholics started rearing their cancerous traditions among our politicians.

the men at lexington and concord greene understood that, why can't you?

>>690603

>Was it God's will for the anti-sodomy laws to be overturned in the 60's?

It was the will of the State.

>And if not then why does the pope consistently corroborate every marxist agenda item that politicians put forth?

There's been a lot of Popes.

>You can talk crap and make yourself feel good about thinking people are going to hell because they're not catholic.

There's no salvation outside the True Church of Christ, we did not institute this.

>most people in america understood up until the early 2000's that the catholic church was a complete fraud and our country was far better off before catholics started rearing their cancerous traditions among our politicians.

Most countries are suffering under American ideology, and the founding fathers weren't even particularly great Christians, so what are you on about?

>>690505

>Orthodox

>Doesn't suggest leaving the Catholic Church

What you said is correct apart from the fact that all Roman Catholic Bishops teach heresy unless they somehow are in disobedience to the Catholic Church so as you should know you should advise people to separate from heretical bishops.

>>690422

It made Christ's church look queer and satanic

>>690437

Popefags are clearly faggots

>>690616

>salvation comes from an institution

>>690629

I don't suggest them leaving the Church of Rome, regardless of its perceived heresies. I belong to the Church of Constantinople, so the Church of Rome is my sister Church. Also, if it's for them to become Protestants or sedevacantists, I'd much rather trust a Catholic bishop to shepherd them. Of course, ideally, they should become Orthodox, but I don't believe becoming Orthodox because of bad pastoring and corruption in the Latin Church is a good idea at all, since they're bound to encounter the same problem here sooner or later. They should become Orthodox because it is the fullness of the Truth, expressed in the most apostolic, biblical, orthodox, catholic manner possible. But their problem is clearly not with doctrine or praxis, but with the hierarchy acting retarded.

>>690408

vaticancatholic.com

>>690616

>There's no salvation outside the True Church of Christ, we did not institute this

Source? I highly doubt God would say "you had faith, accepted Jesus and repented of your sins. But you weren't Catholic so your going to hell."

Also how do you know the Latin church is the original? IMO the Orthodox have a stronger argument to being the original.

>>690662

Catholics believe that Peter was instituted by Jesus to be His representative as earthly head of the Church, and as the highest doctrinal and pastoral authority, the guardian of orthodoxy. They believe this special charisma was transmitted to Peter's successors in the Chuch of Rome.

You necessarily don't accept Jesus perfectly if you reject the authority and service of His vicar, instituted by Him. At the very least, you are in rebellion against His commandment to obey Peter.

I'm not Catholic so I obviously think this is erroneous, but the Orthodox basically have the same thing to say, except that Peter's charisma applies to all bishops to some degree and is applied through synods.

>>690662

Here's some things to help you research.

https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/news/bible-catholic-church-book/

>>690670

>dimond brothers

Sedevacantism is Protestantism.

>>690671

No, it isn't Protestantism, and it's certainly not just because you say so.

>>690678

You may be right. Crazy conspiracy pseudo-prophets that parrot scripture however they see it fitting their needs, calling everyone who'd disagree to be sent to hell, might actually make sense.

On a side note, I laugh every time I see their YT channel named vaticancatholic.

So is this board /christian/ or /catholic/?

>>690681

Not on their obsessive compulsive level, no.

But I've learned long ago that people like them are only proud fools and no scripture will protect them from God.

>>690682

yes

>>690682

Protip: they're the same

>>690625

Ok i googled it and a stumbled across the wikipedia page. Oh God…

Brothers, Francis is the least of your problems tbh, the tip of the iceberg

>>690693

I think you're wrong and can't back up your position, which, in my experience, is the same as every single other person I've come across that has negative things to say about the Brothers. You should stop bearing false witness and the disparaging and poisonous insults, imo.

Read Cum ex Apostolatus Officio from Pope Paul IV. Papa hereticus ipso facto depositus est. Sedevacantism is not Protestant.

St. Bellarmine:

"…A non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope, as Cajetan affirms in the same book, and the reason is that he cannot be the head of that which he is not a member, and he is not a member of the Church who is not a Christian. But a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as St. Cyprian and many other Fathers clearly teach. Therefore, a manifest heretic cannot be Pope." ("De Romano Pontifice," Lib. II, Cap. 30)

>>690680

Premise 1 (official teaching of the Catholic Church): The Catholic Church is exclusively identified with the Church of Christ. That is, these two terms refer to one in the same thing. To be outside the Catholic Church, is to be outside the Church of Christ; etc. (Pope Leo XIII's Satis Cognitum; Pope Pius XI's Mortalium Animos; Pope Pius XII's Mystici Corporis; etc).

Premise 2 (official teaching of Vatican II): The Church of Christ subsists in, but also extends beyond the Catholic Church, to include at least the Protestant and Orthodox sects. (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, as interpreted by Paul VI and his successors; codified in the 1983 Code of Canon Law; etc)

Premise 3 (official teaching of the Catholic Church): "if ever…any Bishop, …even the Roman Pontiff, …has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy: (i) the promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless; … (iii) it shall not be held as partially legitimate in any way; … (vi) those thus promoted or elevated shall be deprived automatically, and without need for any further declaration, of all dignity, position, honour, title, authority, office and power." (Pope Paul IV, Cu m Ex Apostolatus Officio).

Conclusion: Therefore, those who teach Vatican II's doctrine on the Church of Christ extending beyond the Catholic Church, including purported "popes" Paul VI, John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis, are strictly ineligible to hold the office of the papacy and cannot legitimately be popes, under any circumstances

>>690421

Vatican II was pastoral, not doctrinaire, so theologically it would be pretty simple actually. The biggest difficulty would be the actual practical implementation of such reversion.

>>690603

>most people in america understood up until the early 2000's that the catholic church was a complete fraud and our country was far better off before catholics started rearing their cancerous traditions among our politicians.

>The catholicism is a source of America's problems

HAHAHA this is your brain on American exceptionalism. Your secular, multicultural experiment aka "USA" is a failure because it was built upon godlessness in the first place. Your troops plunder the world on the premise of lies but you still do not see even the tip of your nose. America was not ruined by catholicism but Americanism - the "muh liberty" "muh secularism" was a significant factor in rotting the catholic church..first in America, then exported to Europe. Yeah we get it…there are "mean caths" and the current state of church is a mess. That does not make Americanism valid though

Tbh for the large part I blame the influence your state has had over the last 100 years or so - exporting liberalism, pushing muh liberty meme, Americanism meme and so on. Honestly I think the influence US and protestantism has had on the West and particularly on the Europe was cancerous…at best.

>Muh marxism

America has always been the largest supporter of marxism in the last century. It still remains the biggest exporter nowadays…so what are you even talking about there.

Instead of "tough questions" for catholics try to dig deep into the ideas your state was built upon.

Before you ask: Yes I seriously think that the influence the US has had on Europe in the last 100+ years has ruined the Europe and the subversion of church goes hand in hand with that.

I am not saying Americans are bad people. I am saying the state was built upon godlessness, it is a house built upon a sand and it is no good. It shaped the world as we know it today. I have no problem with Americans. I have problem with people who defend Americanism.

>>690743

>Your secular, multicultural experiment aka "USA" is a failure because it was built upon godlessness in the first place

You are either a liar or illiterate, probably just the latter. Freedom of religion was created with Christianity in mind, as they made up the vast majority of all religious people in the colonies.

>>690408

Get the hell out of Catholicism while you still can. Don't even join a split-off group.

>>690409

Your false church has been mishandling and covering sin for nearly 30+ years now. OP should jump ship and continuously damn Rome and its whore of a church. It's dead. Get over it. The sooner you admit we Protestant were right the sooner the better for your soul.

>>690413

>Talking like the is God the Father

>Calling him "Holy"

winnie the pooh you and your blasphemy! This board has taught to hate you guys and your dead church. Congrats for showing me the true nature of Catholicism!

>>690744

Sorry, neither of those. I am aware the settlers were christians. However the "muh freedom of religion" idea goes hand in hand with "all religions are valid" and "there's no absolute truth" memes. So even when created with Christianity in mind this idea has lead to dissolution of chritianity - the secular state where every religion is treated equally. I am not claiming they were not christians. I am saying it was built as a secular state. And if all religions are equal then the religion does become a pointless waste of time. If there's no absolute truth out there - one true faith - why even bother going to church/reading religious texts. Prove me wrong on this.

You take it as an insult to your people. I am not insulting them merely claiming they were mistaken when they accepted some liberal ideas.

Also show me what America has done to counter marxist ideology instead of fueling it.

>>690751

>muh pope and indulgences though amirite.

Meanwhile there are Prot churches that ordain sodomites and sanctify abortion clinics.

>>690753

Well you can't escape the fact that the reformation created those sects. So yeah every protestant sect that ordains sodomites/sanctifies abortion clinics is a result of protestantism. Think about it before you start bashing other churches for being corrupt lol

>>690753

Prots way out: Well that's not my denom buddy.

>Viva la reformation anyway

>Let me tell you about my feewings about catholic church and about pope

>>690759

>If a church is shit, we can leave and go to another one or form a completely new one.

Maybe that would explain why there are hundreds of churches and why some of them are completely off track. But don't worry it has nothing to do with protestantism being a wrong thing.

I am not saying right now RCC is not a mess..it is because it is subverted by sinful people. But the absolute state of protestantism is what it is…so I would not use this particular fact as a leverage to claim reformation was a good thing.

>>690759

>No. And every prot church has autonomy. If a church is shit, we can leave and go to another one or form a completely new one.

This is why Protestantism is toxic. You guys can't accept authority, and instead of improving your Church you just jump ship to some other that agrees with muh feelings. No wonder the Reformation gave way to modernity, secularization, relativism

>>690762

>can't accept authority

Authority is from God. I don't answer to men.

The Enlightenment gave way to all the horse shit you listed, and was wholly atheist. French murderers did the rest.

Catholics put their faith in men, not God. You ignore Scripture and wait for some old pedophile to tell you what to believe.

Matthew 7:18-20

>A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

>>690764

>Authority is from God. I don't answer to men.

In the end for Protestants, authority is 'from myself'. Or else why would Protestants be OK with something like contraception, which as predicted started a mess in the traditional family.

>The Enlightenment gave way to all the horse shit you listed

Hm, I wonder if something with an individualist philosophy could have given birth to the Enlightenment…

>You ignore Scripture

No, Catholic Doctrine cannot contradict Scripture

>>690772

>Protestants

There's that lumping of many groups into one group thing again.

>individualist philosophy

Yes, from atheists like Voltaire.

>Doctrine

So explain all the pedophile priests that have been caught in many countries, not just America, in the last year alone.

>>690772

>from myself

No, from the Holy Spirit. Men are judged whether they are from God or not, by study of Scripture and by the Holy Spirit; by their fruits. All instruction is from God, and God's will is done.

>>690752

>You take it as an insult to your people. I am not insulting them merely claiming they were mistaken when they accepted some liberal ideas.

I usually hear it from people who then accuse me of being personally responsible for things hat happen in states that I don’t live in, like California.

>Also show me what America has done to counter marxist ideology instead of fueling it.

The Cold War, and plenty of laws recently being passed in the growing number of red states to the endless screeching from the Left.

>>690603

>anti-sodomy laws to be overturned in the 60's

Anti-sodomy laws weren't overturned in the US until 2004. People would take you more seriously if you weren't ignorant.

>>690747

I have found God, the Eucharist, my Mother and my Saints, my devotions and my daily prayer. Like hell I would leave over 30 years in over 2000. Not gonna happen.

>>690763

The chance you are reading all of scripture correctly is slim.

>>690805

why not seek the truth instead of comfort and what you're used to?

How are you saved? Can you lose your salvation? What is purgatory? Why did your church forbid clerics from marriage which runs contrary to early tradition and the bible.

Just cause grains of truth exist in a pile of sand doesn't mean the entire pile is worth keeping.

Honestly

you guys should become Lutheran or Anglican or something. trying to infiltrate those churches and turn them back towards conservatism will be easier than cleaning the RCC.

>>691196

Why not just identify as Christian, no affiliation, that way you can't be pigeon holed and you don't have to defend one group over another, you can be more historically objective that way.

Better to defend Christianity itself as a religion, than particular manifestations of it throughout history.

And in regards to going to Church, just go to whichever ones are close or have good sermons.

>>691198

Become Orthodox. Apostolic . Historical. True.

Prots lack sacraments and real worship.

>>690409

This tbh

>>690653

But the thing is that sedevacantism, protestantism, and orthodoxy all try and decentralize when we know God is Central to everything, and keeping his unity is key. I know there's probably going to be more schisms now, but we still need a unifying father figure.

>>692867

Regions can have patriarchs but not one dude who controls all churches everywhere. Too much central power leads to systemic risk….look at the Catholic church lmao

>>690678

Sedevacantism is Protestantism in all the ways that matter. There is no unanimity on who the last real pope was. Some even going as far back as the middle ages to be consistent. But they all have in common a belief that God has already judged the popes since to be anti-popes, despite the fact that they still sit on the chair and no one else is any wiser.

Going back to even a time when people accepted the Divine Right of Kings, at least they waited until the king was struck down to speculate whether God had passed judgment. They didn't look at Kings still in complete power and say "well, in my opinion, God has already told us this guy isn't the real king anymore." Sure, there were people who didn't believe in the Divine Right (just as there are Protestants and Orthodox who don't believe in the Papacy), but you either believe something or you don't.

The whole appeal of Catholicism and what sets it apart from all other Christian denominations is that God gave us an authority on earth in order to guide and unite us. If you could just decide one day that the authority wasn't good enough for you, then why bother believing in that authority in the first place.

It's like ignoring beliefs on birth control and same-sex marriage, because they don't sit right with you. It's either everything or nothing.

If you're going to rely on your interpretation of church documents (which sedes are virtually incapable of differentiating and instead treat every written word that's ever come out of the church as an ex cathedra statement on faith and morals), you may as well just go full Protestant and decide what you want to believe on every issue.

You're honestly no better than those liberal Catholics that are behind such disgusting organisations as Catholics for Choice who for some reason choose to remain "Catholic" all the while believing that the church made some mistakes on issues that don't sit right with them and they are free to just use their "conscience" on these issues. Literally the only consistent issue that defines Catholic belief is Papal authority. If you won't accept that, why even call yourself Catholic?

>>692867

>Pope is God now

>>691182

Capitalism unironically deserves a crusade.

>>692905

Well one counter point in favor of sedevacantism is that Peter was appointed pope in the first place because Christ was going to die for us. While Peter may have been pious, there's no way he himself was equipped to lead the church in the same way as Christ would have. While Christ is still present in our church leaders via the holy spirit, they still have to make choices, whereas Christ would always make the right choice. So because Christ didn't go on to be King of the world, we do sort of have a point for sedevacantism.

>>693113

This seems more like a reason to begome Orthodox tbh

>>690419

>implying the Arian crisis wasn't worse

The Pope himself was kidnapped by the Emperor and forced to say that Arius were right. winnie the pooh Constantine.

Most of the clergy were Arian only an handful of Faithfull kept the Faith and it took two councils to bring them down since arians ignored the decisions in Nicene.

They had arians, now we have pedo faggots.

>>690648

Several documents of the CDF condemned those who read shit beyond what was written in the documents themselves.

>>690714

Nice try Satan

Third Question: Why was the expression "subsists in" adopted instead of the simple word "is"?

Response: The use of this expression, which indicates the full identity of the Church of Christ with the Catholic Church, does not change the doctrine on the Church. Rather, it comes from and brings out more clearly the fact that there are "numerous elements of sanctification and of truth" which are found outside her structure, but which "as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, impel towards Catholic Unity"11.

"It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church"12.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/document/questions-on-certain-aspects-of-the-doctrine-on-the-church-162

Read before saying meme shit

>>693233

Looks like you are part of the pedo gang judging by your picture.

>>693234

Slander is a sin, not that a papist would know that.

>>693236

>posts underage girl

>I'm n-not a pedo like you papist

>>693233

I mean…I like anime artstyle and picture is cute, but… Its really off and doesnt fit in smug replies

>>693237

I can't tell if you're being ironic or sincere. That says a lot about the current state of this board.

>>693238

>smug reply

Are you autistic? Her expression is clearly one of disappointment, not smugness. I am lamenting that anon's trivialisation of the situation.

>>693239

>anime is not bad guys

The current state of this board.

>>693242

With now obvious that you're a troll, I would still advise washing your eyes out and get some glasses if you really think that character is underage.

>>690409

>One small trial

1000 children.