/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

opportunity cost.

instead of doing good or reading the bible or praying or anything good, you choose to lust over lewd thoughts and abuse your penis with your grubby, dirty hands.

repent

>>687028

that's a good point, I've never thought of it that way. so if you're in a situation (like house arrest or something) where theoretically there's no way to praise god through action i.e. the opportunity doesn't exist, does masturbation become OK?

what I'm asking is, if there's no way to glory god in your situation, does sinful behavior become acceptable?

>>687025

Short answer is it is not a sin per se, the bible never mentions it directly. But if its a sin to look upon a woman lustfully, commit adultery or fornication, and thoughts are as sinful as actions, you wouldn't come away with a view of masturbation being a positive thing.

And indeed it isn't, it happens of course, but its not healthy, at least not spiritually, you are training yourself to focus on sex when that is but a small part of what a relationship is actually about and you only exaggerate it's importance because you want it.

It feels good, but the motto is not that because it feels good, anything should be done.

>>687029

There's never a time when its impossible to glorify Him, you're just focusing on external works, like giving money to the homeless and such.

>>687030

great response. this is much more thought out than just the standard copy/past "blergh is sin is bad" rhetoric that doesn't help a new believer really help to get to know God and His Ways.

>>687033

wait so is glorifying him mentally as important as physically? not as in like "is giving to the poor without loving god good" because i know that serves his ways even though the person doesn't wish to, but more as in "can mental glorification trump physical glorification, can it replace, say, giving to the poor?"

>>687029

>what I'm asking is, if there's no way to glory god in your situation, does sinful behavior become acceptable?

you'd have to be in a coma.

Jesus said when you pray you should go in your closet and do it in private, so even in a cell you can ponder God and worship and glorify.

Hypothetically if you were prevented from doing anything wholesome it would be better to simply sit in silence and meditate than do something wrong. No?

Anyway don't forget that God loves you and Christ died for you IN YOUR SIN, in your fallen state, his love is unconditional. However, your good deeds and self-restraint should be done out of your love for God, like not wanting to offend your loved one.

If you love your wife you wouldn't do things that offend her and harm her. Right?

So keep that in mind, if you do masturbate then you have to repent and try to overcome it.

>>687036

that's good stuff. i kind of prefer to think of God as this golden metric that should always be strived for, but thinking of him in a loving way like your analogy implies is a refreshing new thought.

also, is it possible to completely nofap? like, are there people that entirely quit, for good?

>>687039

Yes.

>>687042

thanks brother/sister. this answers all my questions!

/thread

>>687035

Giving to the poor can't replace prayer, prayer can't replace giving to the poor either.

>Faith without works is dead

Read James 2:14-26, it should help.

>>687039

>also, is it possible to completely nofap? like, are there people that entirely quit, for good?

If you believe the benefit outweighs the cost you will very likely succeed long term. If you think the cost & benefit are hard to discern and not noticeable, then you will fail.

Imagine you were given $2million dollars a year on the condition you would not fap. But if you did fap you would lose all that money.

Or imagine it was proven that fapping causes cancer and alzheimers and dementia, it would be much easier to abstain completely or cut down on it dramatically. But because people think masturbation is morally/spiritually neutral with no cost they engage in it easily. They see no benefit in forgoing pleasure.

>>687030

>Short answer is it is not a sin per se, the bible never mentions it directly.

There are many sins that are not mentioned, but they are still sins. Masturbation is a sexual impurity, and the sexual impure will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

>>687034

Too bad. Masturbation is a mortal sin, it's the complete opposite of anything spiritual, and it's a sin worthy of hell. That you're offended by it is not Heaven's problem. God and His ways are perfect, and masturbation is a sure way to separate yourself from Him.

>>687049

Wrong, it's only a venial sin, coming as it does only from our animal nature.

mechanical masturbation with no lustful thoughts is probably venial.

but the intention and thoughts could turn it mortal.

It's sexual immorality, and sex without procreation, not to mention lust and adultery.

>>687025

Because God designed sex to be a total giving of one being to another for the making of another. In other words, entirely selfless. Masturbation is always a selfish act, and breaks the relational plan for sexuality. Breaking this plan has negative effects, as even the atheist can see. It's bad for your health (messes with dopamine, makes you tired, porn-induced erectile-dysfunction, etc). On top of that, you can not genuinely pray to the Lord while masturbating. One of the good test of any activity being a sin is if you can "bring God along" while doing it. You can genuinely pray to God while playing goh with a friend, or while going to the movies with family, you can reasonably know that those activities aren't sins. Can you genuinely pray to God while masturbating to an array of internet porn? I doubt it. You must give God up for the thing, and a Christian should always avoid that.

If having sex before marriage is like getting communion without being baptized, then masturbating is going to McDonald's instead of going to church to have a coke and burger "eucharist".

>>687025

Lust is a sin. All lustful vices are sinful because they are contrary to right reason. But there are vices that are not only contrary to reason but also contrary to the very nature of sexual act of men.

Such "unnatural vices" are beastaility, sodmoy, all other unatural sexual acts and masturabtion. Why is masturabtion unnatural? Because it's "procuring pollution, without any copulation, for the sake of venereal pleasure". It's clearlly unatural for natural veneral act is sex between the women and men (in marriage) which end is not pleasure primarly but procreation.

Adding to that, when we atalk about lust per se, masturabtion is graver sin than any other lustful vice (but not other unnatural vices). This include: simple fornication, adultery, incest, seduction, rape.

>>687030

>Short answer is it is not a sin per se, the bible never mentions it directly.

It is grave sin and Bible do mention it directly: "effeminacy" and "uncleanness" are masturbation. Not to mention Onan.

>>687097

Hold on are you saying masturbation is worse than rape? Also Onan wasn't about masturbation or coitus interruptus but about failing to do his duty to his brother.

For one thing, it’s going to turn you into a massive pervert IF you have a naturally high libido. Masturbation is categorically similar to homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, gerontophilia; these are all forms of sodomy (i.e. non-procreative sex). Unlike the other forms of sodomy, masturbation doesn’t have the risk of pregnancy nor contraction of stds, so there is a perceived lack of risk. Therefore, the concupiscent person indulges ina larger amount, as well as more varied forms of sex. What might start out as bikini models might lead to soft core, hardcore, or even more bizarre forms of perversion (trannies, midgets, elderly, bondage, dom, etc).

The best thing is to stay away from it while your mind isn’t warped. My mind is already warped to the point that normal women don’t do it for anymore.

>>687103

When it comes to lust per se, yes. But rape includes not only lust but also violence.

Church fathers used Onan as "Masturbation is bad m'kay" poster kid and they are always right when most of them agree.

The body is not meant to be used this way.

Your penis is for pro-creation, not the casual emptying of your seed.

My child you are a victim of the culture which surrounds you, the sexual revolution is to blame for this, they would call it liberation but what are you liberated from? You simply become a slave to your lust and desires.

>>687135

>The body is not meant to be used this way.

>Your penis is for pro-creation, not the casual emptying of your seed.

1. Any scriptural support for your statements?

2. As to your assertion that, "Your penis is for pro-creation, not the casual emptying of your seed", once a woman has become impregnated, sex between man and wife cannot enjoy each other sexually because both man and wife cannot recreate that which has already been created?

Please think deeper.

>>687155

>1. Any scriptural support for your statements?

Any scriptural support for this question?

As for answer: Sixth and night commandment, "Thou shalt not commit adultery", "Thou shaly not covet thy neighbor's wife" under which all spices of lust are.

>2. As to your assertion that, "Your penis is for pro-creation, not the casual emptying of your seed", once a woman has become impregnated, sex between man and wife cannot enjoy each other sexually because both man and wife cannot recreate that which has already been created?

Yes. Hold thy dick in pants. All matrial acts should be open to procreation.

Athenagoras the Athenian (c. 175 A.D.): “After throwing the seed into the ground, the farmer awaits the harvest. He does not sow more seed on top of it. Likewise, to us the procreation of children is the limit of our indulgence in appetite.”

If you're a Protestant, it's not explicitly stated in scripture (no, the references to "sexual immorality" don't count–the Bible is explicit about sodomy and bestiality, it's not explicit about this) but most denominations still hold it to be a sin. Catholics have a natural law argument for it, involving it being a use of the sexual organs that excludes the fulfillment of their purpose (like other forms of non-reproductive sexual behavior–contraception, anal sex, etc).

>>687050

Masturbation is mortal sin, it's an act that takes explicit will and is expressly forbidden within the "sexually impure shall not inherit heaven".

Night emissions/wet dreams are not sin, since there is no will involved. Bodily arousal is venial sin, if one does not fight the temptation, which is the only thing I guess you're kvetching about.

>>687314

>If you're a Protestant, it's not explicitly stated in scripture

It's a sexual impurity dude.

>>687155

>Please think deeper

Begone Satan. The OT only makes concessions for night emissions and occasional penile discharges (I assume because of lust, lack of ejaculation).

>>687025

>making the sexual function a pastime instead of a method of getting closer to your partner and producing children

>makes men weaker and more feminine, eroding the masculinity given to men under natural law

>lessens interest in sex, and thus weakens the relations between men and women

>gives rise to degenerate sexual fetishes as your brain gets more and more tolerant and addicted to dopamine, resulting eventually in erectile disfunction, which perverts the natural order of sexual relations

>ultimately represents the victory of lust and the prioritising of one's own pleasure over other things

This is why

Not saying we don't all give in occasionally, but that doesn't mean it's not sinful

The only good thing masturbation does is that it enlarges the penis, and keeps it active. Like jelqing. Abstaining from any sexual activity makes yiu feel less masculine.

>>687025

The only good thing masturbation does is that it enlarges the penis, and keeps it active. Like jelqing. Abstaining from any sexual activity makes yiu feel less masculine.

>>687025

Cause jerking off a penis is pretty gay

>>687764

No? When I quit, my T levels stabilized by themselves naturally, now I don't need to jack off to "feel masculine".

>>687025

C.S. Lewis:

“For me the real evil of masturbation would be that it takes an appetite which, in lawful use, leads the individual out of himself to complete (and correct) his own personality in that of another (and finally in children and even grandchildren) and turns it back; sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides.

And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman.

"For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no woman can rival.

Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover; no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity.

In the end, they become merely the medium through which he increasingly adores himself. . . . After all, almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little dark prison we are all born in. Masturbation is to be avoided as all things are to be avoided which retard this process. The danger is that of coming to love the prison.”

>>687025

But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone. (Matthew 15:18-20)

>>687025

Short answer: Yes.

Why? Even looking lustfully at a woman is an adultery - Mt 5:28. What do you think jerking off to thoughts/ degenerate videos is then?

>Hurr hurr one may masturbate without lustful thoughts.

That's just not possible and everyone knows it since getting aroused itself involves sexual thoughts >>>>masturbation means you willfully indulge in those thoughts and you go full let's waste semen because I am horny.

Another verse that goes hand in hand with this - Mt 5:30.

Also there is a story in the Old Testament about Onan. Try reading that too for broader picture.

I recommend also looking at the whole picture. Masturbation is objectively bad for guys. It is bad for several reasons:

>It drains your energy more than you'd think

producing semen is both energetically and hormonally very demanding

>Therefore it lowers your Testosterone

Testosterone is what makes you a man

>It lowers your self-confidence, hammers down your ability to connect to other human beings, especially to women

>It hammers down your gains if you work out

There are more reasons. It's a rather long list so I won't name it all. After doing nofap I realized WHY God condemns masturbation. NoFap literally makes you into the guy you're supposed to be. It made me more masculine, I get more female attention and furthermore I treat women better than I used to.

Think about it this way: Your sexuality is your potential. You may use it wisely: turn the energy you have into working out, improving yourself, finding a wife, having a family, serving God. You may also use it to make the lowest kind of self-assurance, self-pleasure, serve your lust. That is masturbation. It is literally the easiest way to feel good - at least for few seconds, then you feel terrible, you're out of energy and you have regrets because it is truly a sin to masturbate. By masturbating you basically waste lots of potential. Go no fap for three weeks at least and you'll see the amount of energy you'll suddenly have. You'll notice how much easier it will be to ask girls out since you'll be craving their company once you're pumped with testosterone (or rather - all your T does not have to be used to reinforce the semen supplies)

I think it is useful to understand it's a sin - the scripture reference and also it is useful to understand WHY it's bad for you. After those two steps there's only one thing left: to get rid of this habit.

Hope this helps Anon.

>>688438

Also this

>>687814

and therefore this

>>687697