/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I just know those are British-Israelite groups (they allow members of any race though) and they practice not only sabbatarianism but also food laws, feast days, etc. And teach annihilationism. The ironic thing is they used to point to the use of the phrase 'church of God' used in the Bible to say that was their group since they were named that. And then their church splintered into a million sects after Armstrong died, so now you have United COG, Philadelphia COG, etc.

No personal experiences or advice, sorry.

>>686617

I'm not a huge fan of those cults. Don't get me wrong, they are certainly correct on the Israelites and Jesus being white. But their strict observance of OT ceremonial law in entirely unbiblical. Even Isaiah says true fasting and true sabbath is spiritually about self control and self sacrifice (for the good of another of course) in general.

>>686619

Yes, you heard me correctly. WE

>>686620

>fear they can lose the Holy Spirit

That's so sad. They're proud enough to embrace their Israelite heritage but still act as if the savior never came. Show them Ephesians 1:13-14.

>>686622

Thank you! This is what I need more scripture that contradicts their church's teachings. They believe the Bible but I don't think they've ever been taught the real Gospel

>>686619

It doesn't matter, you don't have to share his beliefs because he's not basing his salvation on it. But these groups are tricking millions of believers with a false Gospel.

>>686621

Jesus Christ was on Earth and appeared to many people to face-to-face. The Jewish people, out of all people, were the most equipped to accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah but they rejected Him. What makes you think people who follow cults would be any different?

Anyways, to directly answer your question. The Mormons are wrong because there was never an expectation of "another" testament. The reason why the New Testament is valid is because the Old Testament is all about predicting the coming of the Messiah and the New Covenant, hence the New Testament. The NT effectively seals the book. As for the JWs, I don't have an easy answer other than use common sense.

>>686644

>The jewish people rejected Him.

You are thinking of the Pharisees. Many ethnic Judeans gladly accepted His calling.

>>686653

>He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Basic scripture that /pol/tards are apparently unaware of.

>>686662

I interpreted it as him saying Pharisees are like the Jews today but most Judeans were wypipo. Having encountered these people who claim Jew should be translated Judean and therefore Jesus was not a Jew, etc., before. Of course Nicodemus and Paul were Pharisees so obviously they were not all irredeemable. Basically if you're gonna say Jews/Judeans were white, you also have to say white people rejected their own messiah since 'his own knew him not', and that white people called for him to be crucified and called a blood curse on themselves. You can't have it both ways.

>>686667

Not to mention you undermine prophecy. The Jews rejected him and the gentles flocked to him

>>686667

It was the Pharisees and the Edomite king-line from Herod that killed Jesus, John, and James. Not every white Judean accepted Him but neither does every white person today.

>>686673

Pharisees were a religious grouping not an ethnic one AFAIK. Hence Paul being a Pharisee and converting to Christianity. As for the Edomite thing, sure, Herod was an Edomite, but where are you getting that the Pharisees were Edomites? The Bible calls both good and bad people Ioudaios/Jew/Judean, if Pharisees were a different race why would it not call them Edomites or something?

>>686680

Josephus Wars 2:8:2

For there are three philosophical sects among the Jews. The followers of the first of whom are the Pharisees; of the second the Sadducees; and of the third sect, who pretends to a severer discipline, are called Essens. These last are Jews (Judah) by birth, and seem to have a greater affection for one another than the other sects have.

>>686681

I'm not sure I get the point you are making with this quote. Did you mean to imply that because it says Essenes are Jews by birth the other two sects are not?

>>686622

WUZ

>>686685

That doesn't say the others are not also Jews by birth. It definitely doesn't say anythjng about them being Edomites. It seems you added Judah in brackets as when I look up the quote it doesn't mention Judah. Also Jesus was not an Essene anyway.

>>686688

The Edomites were descended from Esau who was renamed Edom. Esau was Jacobs brother and Jacob was later renamed Israel. He was the father of 12 sons who became the Israelites, or 12 tribes of Israel.

However Esau (to the dismay of his parents) intermarried with the Canaanite tribes (whom the Israelites were forbidden from intermarrying with). Ever since this point his new descendants - the Edomites or Idumeans - became enemies of Israel.

It's quite strange, since Jacob intermarried with Rachel and Leah, who were daughters of Laban, who was a Syrian. Surely the Syrians who were not Israelites would have also been forbidden for inter-marriage with Istraelites. They also followed strange Gods didn't they? So did the Egyptians, and yet Abraham had a child by an Egyptian (Hagar).

The Edomites continually warred with the Israelites. They hated them even during the time of Christ. However, shortly before Christ, a Maccabean Jew by the name of John Hycanus conquered and then converted the Edomites to Judaism. You would think since they hated the Jews they would only tolerate their religion as long as they were forced to, yet they ended up flourishing under it.

So much so - and to such an extent did they influence the Romans to favour them - that the Romans appointed one of them as governor of Judea, overlooking the choice of many true native Jews for the position.

They appointed Antipar (an Idumean or Edomite) to the position, and he later appointed his son Herod as King of the Jews. Herod was condemned by Christ, and killed all the first born in an attempt to kill the prophesied Messiah at birth. If this was their level of influence (through lies and corruption) in politics, you can only imagine the influence they eventually gained in the temples with the priests of Judah (the Pharisees and Saducees).

Christ said: "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" Leaven was always a sign or spiritual or even physical (racial ?) impurity. Shocked by this comment ? Well then you obviously haven't been reading your Bible enough now have you. Christ also said to those specific Jews who chose to reject Him :

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

~ REVELATION 2:9

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." ~ REVELATION 3:9

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

26 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John

10:26-28)

>>686693

These are the Jews who crucified Christ: John 19:1-16

"1 ¶ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.

5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!

6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.

7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;

9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.

10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar’s friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

16 ¶ Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away."

Most or maybe even all of the Jews who denied Christ were Edomite imposters and most of those who accepted Him were true Judean Jews of the line of the tribe of Judah. Those who did believe Him became known as Christians and not Jews any longer and these Edomite Jews who were particularly strong and numerous in the synagogues became the Talmudic Rabbi Jews of the Middle Ages and the Jews who also converted a half Mongoloid people (the Khazars) to Judaism - a distorted form of the belief in the God of Abraham (Jehovah or Yahweh) mixed with all sorts of anti-Christ hatred and ridiculous Dark ages customs and beliefs.

Along with the Babylonian Kabbalah being taught by their Rabbi's they form a formidable anti-Christian group today and secretly control the Christian seminaries (the "False profit" of prophesy) promoting the pro-Israeli state to the tune of millions of US dollars in voluntary and in-voluntary (tax) donations towards their cause.

>>686693

>>686694

Can we get back on the topic of these cults?

>>686610

>sabbath keeping and old covenant observing cult,

Compared to what? A sabbath abolishing and lawless sect?

The old covenat is still in power until he comes back. Hebrews 8 gives us a good indication of it

>„For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;

>In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.“

‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:4, 13‬

There is a reason jesus is not on earth right now, because the new covenant will only be in full effect once he returns, thats why the old covenant is getting ready to vanish, but has not yet vanished.

Guys focuse on the bible, its all in there

>>686824

Jesus worked on the Sabbath and had others work on the Sabbath. So I guess The Lord founded a "sabbath abolishing and lawless sect"

>>686830

>hurr durr the pahrisees are correct

Jesus did not brake the sabbath, nether did his disciples. Jesus broke the man made rules of the sabbath and underlined it with gods wonders to show that the rabbis have no authority do define what you are to do or not to do on the sabbath.

For the same way, if the pope or some other satanist pedophile claims you are not to do xyz on he sabbath, its not valid, following their decree is opposing god. Purposely breaking their decree is a act of love

>>686842

"This is what the LORD says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem." Jer 17:21

"Then Jesus said to him, "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." John 5:8

>>686842

>the rabbis have no authority do define what you are to do or not to do on the sabbath.

<Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. (Mt 23:1-3)

Really makes me think.

>>686852

> not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem.

tell me what is a load?

is carrying a bible on the sabbath carrying load?

Is carrying a yoga matt a load?

no, pharasees strechted the rules to the extreme where it was unbearable for the people.

If Jesus broke the sabbath and commanded other to do the same, he would not be sinless and by that he could not have died for our sins.

Jesus broke the rules of the pharisees, not the rules of the bible.

>>686853

and then you get contradictions with other statements of jesus.

What we have here is a prime example of a translation error that the greeks did. In other manuscripts for example the hebrew manuscripts we found it says "he" not "they"

we are to observe what "he" MOSES said not what they do.

Point 2:

But anyway, but you quote this but do not observe what he says. Why do you not do the stuff the Pharisees command? Did jesus not tell us we should do them? Why are you rejecting his words?

"In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." John 5:17

Why wasn't his defense that this isn't really work, or that the Pharisees have twisted the meaning or work? Instead Jesus comes right out and admits that he is working on the sabbath

>>686855

>m-muh greek mistranslation

lel

>n-no u! gotcha!

I observe the word of God as instructed me through priesthood of the New Covenant, which He Himself instituted, which supercedes the authority of the Pharisees and the Old Priesthood.

Not that it matters, since you are a dual covenanter.

Also, suddenly the Pharisees are literal again and not boogeymen for the roman catholic clergy.

>>686859

>>686861

I cant do much for you.if god does not open your hearts and eyes, all my labor will be in vain.

For this I know, that all truth is of god. And those that he chooses, he will show all things.

So, give up on your pride and fear, and seek god with all your heart, for religion and tradition does not lead to life.

>>686900

>religion and tradition does not lead to life.

Absolute heresy.

I pray that you will repent of your heresies and submit to the Word of God instead.

>>686791

Yes, name some more of their heresies so I can debunk them.

>>686902

>Absolute heresy.

turn on the oven to get used to the heat

>>686903

appears that everything that goes against the orders and traditions of your cult is considered heresy.

The first thing one should know is that by following man no man can be saved. If you cant hear his voice you are at the will of man.

>>687083

No They are a legitimate cult. Founded in the 90s by a man who claims to be Elijah reborn.

>>686903

I'm currently doing more research into their doctrines, I'll post again when I know more

>>686620

Oh, it’s that (((guy))) 😒

>>686617

>British Nationalism

Yuck

>sabbatarianism

This isn’t so much of a problem for me if it’s done for sanctification, not justification.

>food laws

Sure is crypto-Jew in here

>feast days

As St. Paul said: he observe days, I fear for you

>annihilationism

Don’t really care about this one. As long as there is a punishment for wicked men, I don’t care if it’s a second or a millennium.

>>686653

Its the same issues that were present during the Russian Revolution. There were Judeans fooled by the Synagogue of Satan and others not, but we can't act like all of them were innocent and dindu nothing, same with the Russians.

They are non Trinitarians and are similar to Mormons in a way. The Godhead is God's family and currently consists of the Father and Jesus. Salvation is adoption into Gods family.