/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>I do not know how some people, who believe that a Christian can fall from grace, manage to be happy. It must be a very commendable thing in them to be able to get through a day without despair. If I did not believe in the doctrine of the final perseverance of the saints, I think I should be of all men most miserable, because I should lack any ground of comfort.

I do not know how some people, who believe that a Christian cann't fall from grace, manage to be happy. It must be a very commendable thing in them to be able to get through a day without despair. If I did believe in the doctrine of the final perseverance of the saints, I think I should be of all men most miserable, because I should lack any ground of comfort.

For that would mean that Grace is men's and free will is not free at all.

>When you say, “Can God make me become a Christian?” I tell you yes, for herein rests the power of the gospel. It does not ask your consent; but it gets it. It does not say, “Will you have it?” but it makes you willing in the day of God’s power….The gospel wants not your consent, it gets it. It knocks the enmity out of your heart. You say, I do not want to be saved; Christ says you shall be. He makes our will turn round, and then you cry,”‘Lord save, or I perish!”

When you say, “Can God make me become a Christian?” I tell you yes, for herein rests the power of the gospel. It does however ask your consent; and it may or not gets it. It does say, “Will you have it?” and does not makes you willing in the day of God’s power….The gospel wants your consent, it may or may not gets it. It knocks the enmity out of your heart only if you are willing to. You say, I do not want to be saved; Christ says then shall be it. He does not makes our will turn round, only gives grace so that you my repent and then cry,”‘Lord save, or I perish!”

For it is written "Behold, I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Calvinism is heresy. It always have been and always will be.

>>675330

Can you provide biblical support to your claim?

>>675366

(God speaking) Freely they stood who stood, and fell who fell.

Not free, what proof could they have given sincere

Of true allegiance, constant Faith or Love,

Where only what they needs must do, appeared, [ 105 ]

Not what they would? what praise could they receive?

What pleasure I from such obedience paid,

When Will and Reason (Reason also is choice)

Useless and vain, of freedom both despoild,

Made passive both, had servd necessitie, [ 110 ]

Not me.

>>675366

CHAPTER XIII

THE GIFT OF PERSEVERANCE

Similarly with regard to the gift of perseverance, of which it is written:

He that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved,[75] which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him stand who stands,[76] that he may stand perseveringly, and to raise him who falls, let no one promise himself herein something as certain with an absolute certainty, though all ought to place and repose the firmest hope in God's help.

For God, unless men themselves fail in His grace, as he has begun a good work, so will he perfect it, working to will and to accomplish.[77]

Nevertheless, let those who think themselves to stand, take heed lest they fall,[78] and with fear and trembling work out their salvation,[79] in labors, in watchings, in almsdeeds, in prayer, in fastings and chastity.

For knowing that they are born again unto the hope of glory,[80] and not as yet unto glory, they ought to fear for the combat that yet remains with the flesh, with the world and with the devil, in which they cannot be victorious unless they be with the grace of God obedient to the Apostle who says:

We are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh; for if you live according to the flesh, you shall die, but if by the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.[81]

75. Matt. 10:22; 24:13.

76. Rom. 14:4.

77. Phil. 1:6, 2:13.

78. See 1 Cor. 10:12.

79. Phil. 2:12.

80. See 1 Pet. 1:3.

81. Rom. 8:12f.

>>675313

>I have times of confidence, and then I stumble and ask myself "Am I even Christian? If I love God/Christ then why do I fail and fail and fail?"

And if I were to die before my next confession/repentance then I'd be doomed, and salvation seems highly unlikely

It is good that you feel that way, since this is the righteous judgement of the law. You deserve to be damned for your sins, do you not? And how good of a Christian can you be when you sin and sin though Christ said "If you love me, keep my commandments"? But the love of God is shown in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. You are a bad Christian, and you should go to hell, and so am I and so should I and the same for everyone but Christ. The path to salvation is to give up on it, and instead of anymore making an attempt to pursue it, to beg Christ to provide it. When we have faith in Christ, it brings great comfort, since with so great a savior, our future is assured. You fail and fail and fail, you should get used to it, it's the rest of your life, but instead of despairing over your failure, comfort yourself "Jesus will save me, I believe His promise". You have no cause to despair when it is like you never sinned.

>One of my friends routinely says he's "probably" going to hell and I find this very depressing since he motivated me to actually go to Church instead of just being spiritually 'private'

If your church is telling you of what you must 'do' to be saved instead of what Christ has 'done' it's perfectly understandable why you are not motivated to go there since it is like laying on an anvil for you. A church which teaches to be justified by law is no church at all, but a synagogue of satan. When someone is saved by grace through faith, their motivation is gratitude for the great gift of salvation which they did not deserve. Can you imagine not being motivated with that? Nothing makes a man love Christ more than what He did for them, it is a debt that can never be repaid, it kindles a loyalty that cannot be broken. It is this loyalty that drove our fathers in the faith to die for Christ's name, not a mad desparation to be saved.

>How is this view compatible with free-will

A man is free to pursue the object of his will, what other free will is there? Can someone be so deluded as to think they can defy their own heart? Do you not sin because there is desire for sin in you? Whenever you conquer any sin, is it not because you desired holiness even more? No man does anything without willing it.

>love

What greater love is there? You know your heart, do you deserve to be in God's presence? If He would bring you anyway, would that not be the greatest act of love possible, especially with so great a price? What more do you want of Him?

>Where does the bible teach monergism anyway?

Whenever it teaches man cannot achieve salvation, and that God has achieved it for them.