/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

It’s not as blatant as the church moving to canonise Jesuit Pedro Arrupe, just because he and the Pope are a member of the same society

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/preparations-begin-fr-arrupes-sainthood-cause-postulator-says

>hurr the West is full of degeneracy and needs purged from sin!

>b-but a bishop advocating the destruction of communism and the preservation of his people? t-typical violent oppressive Romanists!

>>674813

No, it's about the genocide of 700,000 Orthodox Serbs.

>>674769

Holy shit not Arrupe.

All the jesuit madness started under him: Theilard de Chardin, liberation teology, yoga, etc…

In fact he was sent into premature retirement by John Paul II for this reason. This pontificate really is revenge of the jesuits.

Why would a Catholic need to defend the actions of Holy Mother Church?

>>674991

>700,000 Orthodox Serbs

The consensus among unbiased historians is 150 000 max. He had nothing to do with it anway.

>>674996

You probably should if your Church is responsible for child rape and genocide.

>>675038

Our Church is not responsible for the actions of the reprobate, as much as Christ is not responsible for the actions of Judas Iscariot.

I'd like an Orthodox to try and defend this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

>>675050

Wasnt supported by the clergy. And was a response to degenerate actions of poles

>>675048

Based

Brainlet here. What is this thread about?

>>674747

>On April 28, 1941, the head of the Catholic Church in Croatia, Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac, issued a public letter in support for the new Ustaše state, and asked the clergy to pray for its Leader, Ante Pavelić.[78] This despite the fact that the Ustaše had already proclaimed a series of anti-Serb and anti-Jewish measures,[79] and he knew they were preparing Nazi-style Racial Laws, which Pavelić signed only 2 days after.[80] While Stepinac later objected to certain Ustaše policies, and helped some Jews and Serbs, he continued to publicly support he Ustaše state until its very end, served as the state’s War Vicar, and in 1944 received a medal from Pavelić[81] (for more on Stepinac’s wartime activities, see Alojzije Stepinac – World War II)

>The vast majority of the Catholic clergy in Croatia supported the Ustaše, some priests, mostly Franciscans, particularly in, but not limited to, Herzegovina and Bosnia, took part in the atrocities themselves. Priests, lke Ivan Guberina, served as Pavelić’s bodyguards, while Dionizije Juričev, responsible the forced conversion of Serbs in the Ustaše government, wrote that it is no longer a crime to kill seven-year-olds if they stand in the way of the Ustaše movement.[82] In his diocesan newspaper, the Archbishop of Sarajevo, Ivan Šarić, published that the “liberation of the world from the Jews is a movement for the renewal of humanity”.[83] In Bosnia the Ustaše largely ruled through the Catholic clergy, with the priest Božidar Bralo serving as a chief Ustaše delegate for Bosnia.[84]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ustashe#Connections_with_the_Catholic_Church

I don't think it can be defended.

>>675050

get meme’d on catholics

>>675048

this was refreshing to my soul to read. we should pray for his intercession.

>>674991

>muh holocaust

>muh 700 quadrillion orthodoxes

NO ONE TOLD YOU TO winnie the pooh SCHISM

Now suffer the consequences

>>675048

Wew.

Saint right winnie the pooh now.

>>674747 (checked)

>2018

>Still discussing how Balkanslavs can do atrocious things

Seriously guys I take every Slav from there older than 30 to have blood on their hands.

You think the Serbs were all clean?

Every country was removing non-nationals at that time, it was a huge mess, a bloody European Rwanda.

>>674769

I'd wave it off because someone needs to show 3 miracles done through intercession before one can be declared a saint, but suddenly I remembered the sancta subito of JP-II and recently mother Theresa.

I'm really glad that these declarations aren't absolutes.

>>675201

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/theology/81-theology/555-canonization-old-vs-new.html

The canonisation process has been watered down substantially, I don't think JPII, Paul VI or Theresa would have been canonised under the old one. The Devil's Advocate would have torn their case to shreds

>>675048

Based.

>>675008

>The consensus among unbiased historians is 150 000 max

Among "unbiased" historians from countries who bombed Serbia for no reason in 1999.

>>675031

I will remember my people you disgusting piece of shit.

>>675102

Yeah, if wikijew is anything to go by lol

>>675102

>some priests, mostly Franciscans, particularly in, but not limited to, Herzegovina and Bosnia, took part in the atrocities themselves.

>Priests, lke Dionizije Juričev, responsible the forced conversion of Serbs in the Ustaše government, wrote that it is no longer a crime to kill seven-year-olds if they stand in the way of the Ustaše movement.

The absolute state of the whore of Babylon.

As Goldstein notes, Stepinac seemingly argued for “humane” Race Laws. On 24 May 1942, Stepinac condemned racial persecution in general terms, though he did not specifically mention Serbs. He stated in a diocesan letter:

All men and all races are children of God; all without distinction. Those who are Gypsies, Black, European, or Aryan all have the same rights (…) for this reason, the Catholic Church had always condemned, and continues to condemn, all injustice and all violence committed in the name of theories of class, race, or nationality. It is not permissible to persecute Gypsies or Jews because they are thought to be an inferior race.[103][104]

I know right? How can anyone defend him?

By the way, we should also call out those Orthodox priests who tried to defend him on his trial!

>>675636

>It is not permissible to persecute Gypsies or Jews because they are thought to be an inferior race.[103][104]

But apparently it was permissible to murder Serbs because they were Orthodox.

>>675201

>durr everyone kill grug think everyone bad

Except the Serbs didn't have an organized murder and replacement program that led to the deaths of anywhere from 200-400 thousand Serbs if we use German WWII sources. Croatian "nationalism" is built on negation; the fact that they're anti-Serbs. They base their entire identity on this. You can't compare what the Partisans and Chetniks (two resistance movements) with these animals. The Communists in Yugoslavia WERE better than the "Catholic" Ustase, because they weren't even Christian, just filthy savage LARPers. The Chetniks had their share of shame, but your historical illiteracy shows if you even try to place them on the same level.

>>675201

The Serbian Chetniks were the royal army. Only the Catholic Croats committed mass genocide.

>>675810

What about the serbian partisans under Tito?

What did they do to italians in Istria?

Oh but they were communists, yes and also serbian, stop playing the innocent victim. Serbians are butchers too.

>>674747

Defend what and why?

If Hitler won the war we'd live in a better world. This guy fought for that world. Now we have degeneracy everywhere, transexuals, satanists, and literal demons infiltrating the catholic church, muslims invadin Europe again all the while humanity prepares to genetically restructure itself for immortality and vanity.

I mean, I don't think things would be any worse off if theese guys woudl've won instead, quite the opposite in fact.

>>675808

>Except the Serbs didn't have an organized murder and replacement program

Look at the hungarian population of Serbia/Yugoslavia to see why you're wrong.

>>675150

So if the Serbs were Catholic then the Pope would have heroically avoided all the bombings and Western interests in Serbia?

>>675928

>What did they do to italians in Istria?

There are no Serbs in Istria. Those partisans were Croatians.

>>675944

If we were Catholic ass kisser then the West would have no need to bomb us, since we would already kiss ass. Thank God we are not!

I'd rather be bombed a 1000 times more than be a Catholic!

>>676013

You are a literal libcuck instead.

Vucic for president, am I right?

Shills all the way in this thread. Stepinac indiscriminately saved countless Serbs and Jews from death. Jews publicly defended him to this day. The Serbs? No, they try to paint him as a perpetrator of a genocide he had nothing to do with just to spite the Croats.

Chetniks were a meme army that was purging Croats in Bosnia, but the writing was at the wall - they won't win, but communism will. To combat communism Stepinac embraced the only other alternative. He prayed for Pavelić so he creates a good state, not to support him in evil.

I also love all those accusations of "evil Croats forcibly baptising Serbs omg its like rape!" because that was often done to save them from the camps. Yet it's somehow bad. I hate this revisionist newthink.

Also note that after partisans won and communists started a purge of over a million people Stepinac wasn't killed. That's because the meme propaganda against him didn't exist. All the accusations here are pure revisionism.

>>676014

??? That guy is a Western puppet a traitor.

>>676016

Wow, just imagine believing in this pile of nonsense.

>but the writing was at the wall

>To combat communism Stepinac embraced the only other alternative.

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that Poland/Britain started WW2.

>>676016

This.

Croats are literally the most based South-Slavs, and they deserve better. Hungary and Croatia unification when?

>>676017

>Next thing you're gonna tell me is that Poland/Britain started WW2.

The jews did that.

>>676017

You're a priest.

Communism is coming.

The alternative wants to have an explicit Christian state.

Which do you pick?

And don't tell he me should've known what the state will do. And don't try to weasel out by saying he should've been a coward and leave his post.

Actually, don't say anything. Leave this as a rhetorical question and reflect on how dumb you are.

>>676020

>Being this based.

Praise the Lord.

>>676020

>Leave this as a rhetorical question and reflect on how dumb you are.

Also, get an education u stupid burger.

>>676023

>Communism wasn't coming.

How can one be this bald faced as they lie?

>>676023

>Yugoslavia was a monarchy

Yugoslavia fell apart by 1941 and there was no state anymore. Četniks were delusional fools who would never be able to take Croatia. It was either Hitler and Musolini or Stalin. Allied victory wasn't on the table at that time.

There is nothing heroic about Ustaša regime. As a monarchist I hate fascist populism and race worship.

On a very similar note, there's nothing heroic about Četnik savages either. Croatia never officially recognized Serbian monarchy and got incorporated into it only because of English agents that were sent here after WWI. Karađorđevići were warlords that deposed the rightful Obrenović house and the first Yugoslavia was a Greater Serbian state that ruled over Croatia but were not rightful Croatian kings. As such, Četniks were aggressors on a sovereign, state.

By the way… Pavelić was an Anglo agent, which is why he was allowed to live in Argentina. How does it feel? To have Greater Serbia given to you by the Anglo and then taken away by them? Those who serve the Eternal Anglo get backstabbed by him.

>>676025

>How can one be this bald faced as they lie?

*bold. You should ask yourself that.

>>676026

>Yugoslavia fell apart by 1941 and there was no state anymore.

This is just plain wrong, the country was overrun by Germans, but the government continued to exist in exile and it officially recognized and supported the Chetnik troops.

>Croatia never officially recognized Serbian monarchy

Yes they did, and they begged to be included in Yugoslavia. They were not annexed, but joined voluntarily through a decision of their own Croatian parliament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_affairs_in_the_Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia

>Karađorđevići were warlords that deposed the rightful Obrenović

>As such, Četniks were aggressors on a sovereign, state.

You are so winnie the pooh stupid.

>>676027

>Habsburg

No thanks, we suffered under them endlessly.

>>676028

Your point is wrong on all three major points.

1) When your country is controlled by Germans and your government is hiding in enemy territory with no holdings back home, it ceases to be a government. You're arguing semantics.

2) You're brazenly trying to educate me by posting a wikipedia link. The level of discourse is far beyond that. So I don't quote it and fix, I'll just give you a short counter lesson:

Various communist, revolutionary and Yugoslav agitators from all southern slavic states that got exiled thru the last 50 years were gathered by the UK, propped up and organized to set up Yugoslavia. Once the war ended they were flown back home into our countries and sent to the parliament. Croat politicians wanted to discuss a federation, but our lands, being weak after the fall of Austria-Hungary, were occupied and our parliament dissolved. It was dissolved before we disinherited Karl von Habsburg and before we recognized Serbian monarchy.

Now let me spell you what this means:

For a king to be legitimate, he needs to inherit the rightful crown of the country or to rule over it for a long enough period of time (it varies, but 50 years is a good rule of thumb). Croatian crown to this day still legally rests with the Habsburg family and the first Yugoslavia existed for too short of a time to be recognized as valid.

In other words, Yugolavia was an occupation, as was the Ustaša regieme and as was the second Yugoslavia. Current Croatia is a kingless country, too, if not outright illegitimate. As is Serbia, by the way.

>>Karađorđevići were warlords that deposed the rightful Obrenović

>>As such, Četniks were aggressors on a sovereign, state.

>You are so winnie the pooh stupid.

It's not me. In my country it's basically the official stance among monarchists.

>>676029

No deal, then.

>>676031

It was done by the English.

And your "orthodox empire" was smashed by the Karađorđevići. Stop pretending to find glory in the first Yugoslavia. Serbia suffered just as much as anyone else did, although it did reap more rewards. Serbs barely write Cyrilic for the most part and I've had them sob to me about how Yugoslavia ruined their traditions and made them westernized (in a bad way). After the failure of the first Yugoslavia and the commie state that came after it, Greater Serbia will never become a thing again.

>>676040

> it ceases to be a government. You're arguing semantics.

No it doesn't. It's called government in exile for a reason. You have clearly lost the debate because you are an uneducated kid, and now you are trying to confuse us with your mental gymnastitcs. I am not interested.

>>676040

>Greater Serbia will never become a thing again.

Once the West collapses there is nobody to stop us.

>>676040

>It's not me. In my country it's basically the official stance among monarchists.

Every monarchy has recognized the Karadjodjevics as rightful kings, so stop lying.

>>676031

Your posts are the embodiment of blind self-centered serbian fanaticism fueled by victim complex.

God, it really must be hard to produce the amount of imaginary history you need to support your cognitive dissonance.

You are the kind of people who say croatians are just serbs forced to convert to catholicism centuries ago. Then wonder why they hate you.

>>676074

>Once the West collapses there is nobody to stop us.

And you butchers will leave another bloody trail behind you in order to build your delusions.

Then cry genocide again when the croats retaliate.

You act like the jews of the balkans. "muh 700k gorillions"

>>675928

>what did they do to italians in istria?

Basically a shoah. It's called "Foibe" taking its name from the local cave like formations that were used for the massacre.

Tito's commie yugoslavs decimated the region killing about 650k local civilians for the formally stated objective of eradication of the italian ethnicity, men women and children, by tossing them into natural caves, ditches and mineshafts that are abundant in the territory.

Forceful displacement of the remaining ethnic population followed the foibe.

Tossing them in alive that is, they relied on the injuries from the fall (or hunger) killing them.

>>676590

>about 650k local civilians

Proofs?

>>674747

He looks like the typical hollywood evil guy

>>677138

Because he is an evil guy.

>>675050

Uh, most of Bandera’s supporters were Greek Catholic, so I really don’t see how this has anything to do with Orthodoxy.

Anyway, I can approach this somewhat unbiasedly since I’m simultaneously an Amerifat Ortholarper with an ethnic Croat dad. I figured I’d use this opportunity to remind that

>one of the first acts of the NDH was to hand over Croatian territories to Italy

>The Ustase eagerly labeled their Catholic enemies as “Catholic Serbs” and made accommodations for “Orthodox Croats”

>they were totally cucked on Islam

They dressed up nationalist mass killing in some religious garb, and got support from elements within the Catholic Church to do it. Stepinac basically got played by the Ustase, but definitely bears some serious responsibility for morally supporting that regime

>>676023

>Communism wasn't coming

>muh backstabbing Gommunists

Hahaha. Read something about history you unbearable fag besides TV fairy tales. There is a reason there were attempts of bolshevik revs in many countries prior to ww2, there is a reason why the eastern block became communist after ww2. But you never considered this did you. Because spewing nonsense they tell you by default is easier.

As much as you'd like to rewrite history I got bad news for you: The truth always gets out eventually. There is no rewriting history into this obvious lie.

If you say "Communism wasn't a threat" or "communism wasn't comming" then you're just blatantly lying. That's how it is.

Now move on.

>>674747

So I am going to call this out. The majority of Catholics have no idea who this man is or what he did. You are then blaming the entirety of Catholics and asking them to defend the crimes of a person they never knew who in several ways acted in direct contradiction to Church teachings.

All I see is a bait thread made to bring people to anger in defense of their faith and causing them to sin.

>>676020

>Ustase

>explicit Christian state

oh I am laffin and yes he should have known what the state will do considering their intentions were very clear during the 30s